Guest guest Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Mind and Ego are not capable of doing anything. They are illusions. Even consciousness is the first illusion. They can not participate in dialogue. For a dialogue to happen there should be two real ones and not two illusions. Mind, ego and all illusions do monologue only. They perceive idea and perceive perception from fictitious 'other'. Even the absence of the other makes a conclusion about that other. Mind has no control over any thought. Neither mind nor ego can identify with any thought or an illusion. All words are relative. Enlightenment too is a word with variety of perception. This e-mail too may mean many ideas according to the realm of time and space (ie thoughts of individuals) of those who think they are living. What is normal and what is healthy are all relative. Everyone is right or normal from relative realms of time and space. Monologues and all illusions happen. Words happen. Conclusions happen. Yet all happenings are illusive. All these words happen as a response to following lines from previous email from pedsie2. Is it not interesting that if a person vocalizes that monologe, we view that as a mental disorder, but as long the monologe remains private, we think of it as normal? It might be the norm, but it's not healthy or conducive to enlightenment. -----Werner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Anders, > > I don't know what your relationship is with Mr. Bush but I did not > address him but you. > > If you like then read message Nr. 13867 > > > Werner That post was about stopping dialoges as they pop up. I thought in this post you meant to stop all dialoges so that no dialoges would ever pop up for one day, cleary a virtually impossible task. /AL > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > Anders, > > > > > > Have you done that small task I told you to do, to stop for one > day > > > all innder dialogs ? No, you haven't ! I can see this in your > > posts, > > > they would have been different. > > > > > > Werner > > > > I don't remember that you have asked me this. I will try this when, > > and if, George W. Bush can stop his inner dialogs for one day. :- ) > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > Let go all that pompous shit of your dreamy mind and dig a > hole > > > and > > > > > live there for the rest of your life. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > Everybody has a dreaming mind. That's what the human mind does - > > > it > > > > lives in a dream called 'me'. Haven't you noticed? > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The main obstcale is: " once " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wrote: > > > > > > > Once the clear insight of nowness comes, ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I must say: > > > > > > > Wow Anders, you know so much what happens if, when, > could, > > > > > would ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes sir, I know that if, and when, my free soul at last > sees > > > > > itself, > > > > > > recognizes itself as free, then there will be freedom. So, > we > > > > have > > > > > to > > > > > > ask ourselves, why am I not free? What is this prison I > call > > my > > > > > body > > > > > > and my life? Surely, freedom cannot come through > > identification > > > > > with > > > > > > something temporal. Where is that steady flame which looks > at > > > > time > > > > > > with compassion, shining in its eternal light; giving birth > > to > > > > > Lila, > > > > > > the fleeting game of life? > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " > > > > > > > > <sga_email> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle said what I find to be an interesting > > > > > > statement. > > > > > > > He > > > > > > > > > > said that when people become more present, when > they > > > > reach > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > certain 'level' of the new state of consciousness, > > then > > > > > they > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > simply choose to stop thinking> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I find it interesting when 'masters' proclaim things > > like > > > > > > *when* > > > > > > > > > people reach a new stage of development or > > consciousness > > > > that > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > *can* stop thinking etc etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone, you or I *now* with practice, can stop > thought, > > > > empty > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > a *meditation practice* and not only available as a > > > sought > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > lofty height of accomplishment only achievable by > those > > > who > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > reached a certain state. > > > > > > > > > I believe advice like the above can be misleading > > because > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > believe it is more difficult than it really is, or > that > > > the > > > > > > > > capacity > > > > > > > > > to have a vacant mind is only available to a select > few > > > who > > > > > > > > > have 'reached a certain state'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a marvelous statement. Simply by > > > > > > > > > > choosing to become fully present without thought > the > > > > > thinking > > > > > > > > > stops.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, and anyone willing to put in the time can > achieve > > a > > > > > state > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > empty mind devoid of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I think that as long as one is completely > caught > > in > > > > the > > > > > > > level > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > thinking, it is not possible to stop thinking. The > > > choice > > > > > has > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > come > > > > > > > > > > from a deeper knowing than thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you wrestle with your mind to stop thinking, it > will > > > > only > > > > > > > fight > > > > > > > > > the control trying to be imposed on it. Stopping > > thinking > > > > is > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > letting the mind settle of it's own accord, then the > > > *need* > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > thoughts do not arise also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you examine your thoughts first it then becomes > > easier > > > > to > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > mind empty because you know better the nature of the > > > thing > > > > > you > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > trying to understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe worship of prana in itself can lead to > > > > understanding > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > people, and it was for them this was mentioned. Or > > > maybe > > > > he > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > word worship to point to a state of immense > > gratitude, > > > a > > > > > > state > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > which there are no words, but some word or > > combination > > > of > > > > > > words > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > to be used. Also he could by prana mean God, or the > > God- > > > > > > force, > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > that worship of prana is the same as worship of God > > > which > > > > > is > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > form > > > > > > > > > > of gratitude for the All. Or maybe he was just > making > > a > > > > > > > confusing > > > > > > > > > > statement so that the intellect would go around, > and > > > > > around, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > around until it would be exhausted so that > something > > > new > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > > penetrate the human being. Many sages talk about a > > > > vertical > > > > > > > > > dimension > > > > > > > > > > as the new state that will replace (complement, > > > > transcend) > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > ordinary horizontal dimension of thinking about > past > > > and > > > > > > future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, could be any of the above, I myself am confused > as > > > to > > > > > why > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > said it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have posted some other material that Nisargardatta > > has > > > > said > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > prana also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the direct contact with what is, the obstacles to > > > freedom > > > > > are > > > > > > > > revealed, and the seeker exposed. Once the clear > insight > > of > > > > > > nowness > > > > > > > > comes, the obstacles begin to crumble, and the story of > > > one's > > > > > > life > > > > > > > > fades away like mist before stark sunlight. That prana > > > which > > > > > has > > > > > > > > always been there now turns the stiffness into a > blazing > > > > fire. > > > > > > > > Listen, somebody, please, bring me another can of > Prana, > > > that > > > > > > > liquid > > > > > > > > Healer for mind body and my fragmented soul! :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 Ooooh, Anders, I do trust in your talents - but not that much to offer you a task which is impossible to solve. But that one to stop any inner dialog as soon as you see it is already pretty tough enough. For example when thinking of what you will reply to some other member's post is a dialog too. Do you see that ? So, no inner dialog for one day. Outer dialogs with people are allowed, like phone calls etc. Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > Anders, > > > > I don't know what your relationship is with Mr. Bush but I did not > > address him but you. > > > > If you like then read message Nr. 13867 > > > > > > Werner > > That post was about stopping dialoges as they pop up. I thought in > this post you meant to stop all dialoges so that no dialoges would > ever pop up for one day, cleary a virtually impossible task. > > /AL > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > > wrote: > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > Have you done that small task I told you to do, to stop for one > > day > > > > all innder dialogs ? No, you haven't ! I can see this in your > > > posts, > > > > they would have been different. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > I don't remember that you have asked me this. I will try this > when, > > > and if, George W. Bush can stop his inner dialogs for one day. :- > ) > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > > > Let go all that pompous shit of your dreamy mind and dig a > > hole > > > > and > > > > > > live there for the rest of your life. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > Everybody has a dreaming mind. That's what the human mind > does - > > > > > it > > > > > lives in a dream called 'me'. Haven't you noticed? > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The main obstcale is: " once " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wrote: > > > > > > > > Once the clear insight of nowness comes, ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I must say: > > > > > > > > Wow Anders, you know so much what happens if, when, > > could, > > > > > > would ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes sir, I know that if, and when, my free soul at last > > sees > > > > > > itself, > > > > > > > recognizes itself as free, then there will be freedom. > So, > > we > > > > > have > > > > > > to > > > > > > > ask ourselves, why am I not free? What is this prison I > > call > > > my > > > > > > body > > > > > > > and my life? Surely, freedom cannot come through > > > identification > > > > > > with > > > > > > > something temporal. Where is that steady flame which > looks > > at > > > > > time > > > > > > > with compassion, shining in its eternal light; giving > birth > > > to > > > > > > Lila, > > > > > > > the fleeting game of life? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " > > > > > > > > > <sga_email> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle said what I find to be an > interesting > > > > > > > statement. > > > > > > > > He > > > > > > > > > > > said that when people become more present, when > > they > > > > > reach > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > certain 'level' of the new state of > consciousness, > > > then > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > simply choose to stop thinking> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I find it interesting when 'masters' proclaim > things > > > like > > > > > > > *when* > > > > > > > > > > people reach a new stage of development or > > > consciousness > > > > > that > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > *can* stop thinking etc etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone, you or I *now* with practice, can stop > > thought, > > > > > empty > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > a *meditation practice* and not only available as a > > > > sought > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > lofty height of accomplishment only achievable by > > those > > > > who > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > reached a certain state. > > > > > > > > > > I believe advice like the above can be misleading > > > because > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > > believe it is more difficult than it really is, or > > that > > > > the > > > > > > > > > capacity > > > > > > > > > > to have a vacant mind is only available to a select > > few > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > have 'reached a certain state'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a marvelous statement. Simply by > > > > > > > > > > > choosing to become fully present without thought > > the > > > > > > thinking > > > > > > > > > > stops.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, and anyone willing to put in the time can > > achieve > > > a > > > > > > state > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > empty mind devoid of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I think that as long as one is completely > > caught > > > in > > > > > the > > > > > > > > level > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > thinking, it is not possible to stop thinking. > The > > > > choice > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > come > > > > > > > > > > > from a deeper knowing than thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you wrestle with your mind to stop thinking, it > > will > > > > > only > > > > > > > > fight > > > > > > > > > > the control trying to be imposed on it. Stopping > > > thinking > > > > > is > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > letting the mind settle of it's own accord, then > the > > > > *need* > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > thoughts do not arise also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you examine your thoughts first it then becomes > > > easier > > > > > to > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > mind empty because you know better the nature of > the > > > > thing > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > trying to understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe worship of prana in itself can lead to > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > > people, and it was for them this was mentioned. > Or > > > > maybe > > > > > he > > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > word worship to point to a state of immense > > > gratitude, > > > > a > > > > > > > state > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > which there are no words, but some word or > > > combination > > > > of > > > > > > > words > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > to be used. Also he could by prana mean God, or > the > > > God- > > > > > > > force, > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > that worship of prana is the same as worship of > God > > > > which > > > > > > is > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > form > > > > > > > > > > > of gratitude for the All. Or maybe he was just > > making > > > a > > > > > > > > confusing > > > > > > > > > > > statement so that the intellect would go around, > > and > > > > > > around, > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > around until it would be exhausted so that > > something > > > > new > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > > > penetrate the human being. Many sages talk about > a > > > > > vertical > > > > > > > > > > dimension > > > > > > > > > > > as the new state that will replace (complement, > > > > > transcend) > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > ordinary horizontal dimension of thinking about > > past > > > > and > > > > > > > future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, could be any of the above, I myself am > confused > > as > > > > to > > > > > > why > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > said it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have posted some other material that > Nisargardatta > > > has > > > > > said > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > prana also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the direct contact with what is, the obstacles to > > > > freedom > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > revealed, and the seeker exposed. Once the clear > > insight > > > of > > > > > > > nowness > > > > > > > > > comes, the obstacles begin to crumble, and the story > of > > > > one's > > > > > > > life > > > > > > > > > fades away like mist before stark sunlight. That > prana > > > > which > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > always been there now turns the stiffness into a > > blazing > > > > > fire. > > > > > > > > > Listen, somebody, please, bring me another can of > > Prana, > > > > that > > > > > > > > liquid > > > > > > > > > Healer for mind body and my fragmented soul! :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Ooooh, Anders, > > I do trust in your talents - but not that much to offer you a task > which is impossible to solve. But that one to stop any inner dialog > as soon as you see it is already pretty tough enough. For example > when thinking of what you will reply to some other member's post is a > dialog too. Do you see that ? So, no inner dialog for one day. Outer > dialogs with people are allowed, like phone calls etc. > > Werner Then I understand. Yes, an inner dialog is happening now as I write this post, and *also* when I make a phone call, unless when the words float by themselves spontaneously, with ease. Also writing can be flowing or created by thinking, by first having an inner dialog and then composing a post. Eckhart Tolle described what a writer trained in Zen said about how to write: " Above all, don't think. " He said that when a novel was created by an inner dialoge, like " let's see... what could I have this character do now, how will I make this plot interesting... " , then the novel would be shallow with cardboard characters, and that the story instead should flow from a deeper level naturally creating the writing. /AL > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > Anders, > > > > > > I don't know what your relationship is with Mr. Bush but I did > not > > > address him but you. > > > > > > If you like then read message Nr. 13867 > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > That post was about stopping dialoges as they pop up. I thought in > > this post you meant to stop all dialoges so that no dialoges would > > ever pop up for one day, cleary a virtually impossible task. > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > Have you done that small task I told you to do, to stop for > one > > > day > > > > > all innder dialogs ? No, you haven't ! I can see this in your > > > > posts, > > > > > they would have been different. > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > I don't remember that you have asked me this. I will try this > > when, > > > > and if, George W. Bush can stop his inner dialogs for one > day. :- > > ) > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let go all that pompous shit of your dreamy mind and dig > a > > > hole > > > > > and > > > > > > > live there for the rest of your life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > Everybody has a dreaming mind. That's what the human mind > > does - > > > > > > > it > > > > > > lives in a dream called 'me'. Haven't you noticed? > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > > > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The main obstcale is: " once " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wrote: > > > > > > > > > Once the clear insight of nowness comes, ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I must say: > > > > > > > > > Wow Anders, you know so much what happens if, when, > > > could, > > > > > > > would ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes sir, I know that if, and when, my free soul at last > > > sees > > > > > > > itself, > > > > > > > > recognizes itself as free, then there will be freedom. > > So, > > > we > > > > > > have > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > ask ourselves, why am I not free? What is this prison I > > > call > > > > my > > > > > > > body > > > > > > > > and my life? Surely, freedom cannot come through > > > > identification > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > something temporal. Where is that steady flame which > > looks > > > at > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > with compassion, shining in its eternal light; giving > > birth > > > > to > > > > > > > Lila, > > > > > > > > the fleeting game of life? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Scott > Andersen " > > > > > > > > > > <sga_email> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle said what I find to be an > > interesting > > > > > > > > statement. > > > > > > > > > He > > > > > > > > > > > > said that when people become more present, when > > > they > > > > > > reach > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > certain 'level' of the new state of > > consciousness, > > > > then > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > simply choose to stop thinking> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I find it interesting when 'masters' proclaim > > things > > > > like > > > > > > > > *when* > > > > > > > > > > > people reach a new stage of development or > > > > consciousness > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > > *can* stop thinking etc etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone, you or I *now* with practice, can stop > > > thought, > > > > > > empty > > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > a *meditation practice* and not only available as > a > > > > > sought > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > lofty height of accomplishment only achievable by > > > those > > > > > who > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > reached a certain state. > > > > > > > > > > > I believe advice like the above can be misleading > > > > because > > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > > > believe it is more difficult than it really is, > or > > > that > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > capacity > > > > > > > > > > > to have a vacant mind is only available to a > select > > > few > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > have 'reached a certain state'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a marvelous statement. Simply by > > > > > > > > > > > > choosing to become fully present without > thought > > > the > > > > > > > thinking > > > > > > > > > > > stops.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, and anyone willing to put in the time can > > > achieve > > > > a > > > > > > > state > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > empty mind devoid of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I think that as long as one is completely > > > caught > > > > in > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > level > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > thinking, it is not possible to stop thinking. > > The > > > > > choice > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > come > > > > > > > > > > > > from a deeper knowing than thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you wrestle with your mind to stop thinking, > it > > > will > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > fight > > > > > > > > > > > the control trying to be imposed on it. Stopping > > > > thinking > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > letting the mind settle of it's own accord, then > > the > > > > > *need* > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > thoughts do not arise also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you examine your thoughts first it then > becomes > > > > easier > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > mind empty because you know better the nature of > > the > > > > > thing > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > trying to understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe worship of prana in itself can lead to > > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > > > people, and it was for them this was mentioned. > > Or > > > > > maybe > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > word worship to point to a state of immense > > > > gratitude, > > > > > a > > > > > > > > state > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > which there are no words, but some word or > > > > combination > > > > > of > > > > > > > > words > > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > > to be used. Also he could by prana mean God, or > > the > > > > God- > > > > > > > > force, > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > that worship of prana is the same as worship of > > God > > > > > which > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > form > > > > > > > > > > > > of gratitude for the All. Or maybe he was just > > > making > > > > a > > > > > > > > > confusing > > > > > > > > > > > > statement so that the intellect would go > around, > > > and > > > > > > > around, > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > around until it would be exhausted so that > > > something > > > > > new > > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > > > > penetrate the human being. Many sages talk > about > > a > > > > > > vertical > > > > > > > > > > > dimension > > > > > > > > > > > > as the new state that will replace (complement, > > > > > > transcend) > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > ordinary horizontal dimension of thinking about > > > past > > > > > and > > > > > > > > future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, could be any of the above, I myself am > > confused > > > as > > > > > to > > > > > > > why > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > said it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have posted some other material that > > Nisargardatta > > > > has > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > prana also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the direct contact with what is, the obstacles > to > > > > > freedom > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > revealed, and the seeker exposed. Once the clear > > > insight > > > > of > > > > > > > > nowness > > > > > > > > > > comes, the obstacles begin to crumble, and the > story > > of > > > > > one's > > > > > > > > life > > > > > > > > > > fades away like mist before stark sunlight. That > > prana > > > > > which > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > always been there now turns the stiffness into a > > > blazing > > > > > > fire. > > > > > > > > > > Listen, somebody, please, bring me another can of > > > Prana, > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > liquid > > > > > > > > > > Healer for mind body and my fragmented soul! :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 Anders, I haven't asked you to understand, I have asked you to do that experiment for one day. You cannot know beforehand what will be the result. Are you only capable to think and and think and think or is there eventually left a little bit adventurous life ? To dare to try something for one day without pondering in advance what the result could be ? Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > Ooooh, Anders, > > > > I do trust in your talents - but not that much to offer you a task > > which is impossible to solve. But that one to stop any inner dialog > > as soon as you see it is already pretty tough enough. For example > > when thinking of what you will reply to some other member's post is > a > > dialog too. Do you see that ? So, no inner dialog for one day. > Outer > > dialogs with people are allowed, like phone calls etc. > > > > Werner > > Then I understand. Yes, an inner dialog is happening now as I write > this post, and *also* when I make a phone call, unless when the words > float by themselves spontaneously, with ease. Also writing can be > flowing or created by thinking, by first having an inner dialog and > then composing a post. Eckhart Tolle described what a writer trained > in Zen said about how to write: " Above all, don't think. " He said > that when a novel was created by an inner dialoge, like " let's see... > what could I have this character do now, how will I make this plot > interesting... " , then the novel would be shallow with cardboard > characters, and that the story instead should flow from a deeper > level naturally creating the writing. > > /AL > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > > wrote: > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > I don't know what your relationship is with Mr. Bush but I did > > not > > > > address him but you. > > > > > > > > If you like then read message Nr. 13867 > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > That post was about stopping dialoges as they pop up. I thought > in > > > this post you meant to stop all dialoges so that no dialoges > would > > > ever pop up for one day, cleary a virtually impossible task. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you done that small task I told you to do, to stop for > > one > > > > day > > > > > > all innder dialogs ? No, you haven't ! I can see this in > your > > > > > posts, > > > > > > they would have been different. > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > I don't remember that you have asked me this. I will try this > > > when, > > > > > and if, George W. Bush can stop his inner dialogs for one > > day. :- > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let go all that pompous shit of your dreamy mind and > dig > > a > > > > hole > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > live there for the rest of your life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everybody has a dreaming mind. That's what the human mind > > > does - > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > lives in a dream called 'me'. Haven't you noticed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > > > > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The main obstcale is: " once " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Once the clear insight of nowness comes, ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I must say: > > > > > > > > > > Wow Anders, you know so much what happens if, when, > > > > could, > > > > > > > > would ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes sir, I know that if, and when, my free soul at > last > > > > sees > > > > > > > > itself, > > > > > > > > > recognizes itself as free, then there will be > freedom. > > > So, > > > > we > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > ask ourselves, why am I not free? What is this prison > I > > > > call > > > > > my > > > > > > > > body > > > > > > > > > and my life? Surely, freedom cannot come through > > > > > identification > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > something temporal. Where is that steady flame which > > > looks > > > > at > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > with compassion, shining in its eternal light; giving > > > birth > > > > > to > > > > > > > > Lila, > > > > > > > > > the fleeting game of life? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Scott > > Andersen " > > > > > > > > > > > <sga_email> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle said what I find to be an > > > interesting > > > > > > > > > statement. > > > > > > > > > > He > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that when people become more present, > when > > > > they > > > > > > > reach > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > certain 'level' of the new state of > > > consciousness, > > > > > then > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > > simply choose to stop thinking> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I find it interesting when 'masters' proclaim > > > things > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > *when* > > > > > > > > > > > > people reach a new stage of development or > > > > > consciousness > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > > > *can* stop thinking etc etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone, you or I *now* with practice, can stop > > > > thought, > > > > > > > empty > > > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > a *meditation practice* and not only available > as > > a > > > > > > sought > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > lofty height of accomplishment only achievable > by > > > > those > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > reached a certain state. > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe advice like the above can be > misleading > > > > > because > > > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > > > > believe it is more difficult than it really is, > > or > > > > that > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > capacity > > > > > > > > > > > > to have a vacant mind is only available to a > > select > > > > few > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > > have 'reached a certain state'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a marvelous statement. Simply by > > > > > > > > > > > > > choosing to become fully present without > > thought > > > > the > > > > > > > > thinking > > > > > > > > > > > > stops.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, and anyone willing to put in the time can > > > > achieve > > > > > a > > > > > > > > state > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > empty mind devoid of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I think that as long as one is completely > > > > caught > > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > level > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > thinking, it is not possible to stop > thinking. > > > The > > > > > > choice > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > come > > > > > > > > > > > > > from a deeper knowing than thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you wrestle with your mind to stop thinking, > > it > > > > will > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > fight > > > > > > > > > > > > the control trying to be imposed on it. > Stopping > > > > > thinking > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > letting the mind settle of it's own accord, > then > > > the > > > > > > *need* > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > thoughts do not arise also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you examine your thoughts first it then > > becomes > > > > > easier > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > mind empty because you know better the nature > of > > > the > > > > > > thing > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > trying to understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe worship of prana in itself can lead to > > > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > > > > people, and it was for them this was > mentioned. > > > Or > > > > > > maybe > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > word worship to point to a state of immense > > > > > gratitude, > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > state > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > which there are no words, but some word or > > > > > combination > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > words > > > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > > > to be used. Also he could by prana mean God, > or > > > the > > > > > God- > > > > > > > > > force, > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > that worship of prana is the same as worship > of > > > God > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > form > > > > > > > > > > > > > of gratitude for the All. Or maybe he was > just > > > > making > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > confusing > > > > > > > > > > > > > statement so that the intellect would go > > around, > > > > and > > > > > > > > around, > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > around until it would be exhausted so that > > > > something > > > > > > new > > > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > > > > > penetrate the human being. Many sages talk > > about > > > a > > > > > > > vertical > > > > > > > > > > > > dimension > > > > > > > > > > > > > as the new state that will replace > (complement, > > > > > > > transcend) > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > ordinary horizontal dimension of thinking > about > > > > past > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, could be any of the above, I myself am > > > confused > > > > as > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > why > > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > > said it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have posted some other material that > > > Nisargardatta > > > > > has > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > prana also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the direct contact with what is, the obstacles > > to > > > > > > freedom > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > revealed, and the seeker exposed. Once the clear > > > > insight > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > nowness > > > > > > > > > > > comes, the obstacles begin to crumble, and the > > story > > > of > > > > > > one's > > > > > > > > > life > > > > > > > > > > > fades away like mist before stark sunlight. That > > > prana > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > always been there now turns the stiffness into a > > > > blazing > > > > > > > fire. > > > > > > > > > > > Listen, somebody, please, bring me another can of > > > > Prana, > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > liquid > > > > > > > > > > > Healer for mind body and my fragmented soul! :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Anders, > > I haven't asked you to understand, I have asked you to do that > experiment for one day. You cannot know beforehand what will be the > result. > > Are you only capable to think and and think and think or is there > eventually left a little bit adventurous life ? To dare to try > something for one day without pondering in advance what the result > could be ? > > Werner Ok, I'll try this experiment tomorrow. /AL > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > Ooooh, Anders, > > > > > > I do trust in your talents - but not that much to offer you a > task > > > which is impossible to solve. But that one to stop any inner > dialog > > > as soon as you see it is already pretty tough enough. For example > > > when thinking of what you will reply to some other member's post > is > > a > > > dialog too. Do you see that ? So, no inner dialog for one day. > > Outer > > > dialogs with people are allowed, like phone calls etc. > > > > > > Werner > > > > Then I understand. Yes, an inner dialog is happening now as I write > > this post, and *also* when I make a phone call, unless when the > words > > float by themselves spontaneously, with ease. Also writing can be > > flowing or created by thinking, by first having an inner dialog and > > then composing a post. Eckhart Tolle described what a writer > trained > > in Zen said about how to write: " Above all, don't think. " He said > > that when a novel was created by an inner dialoge, like " let's > see... > > what could I have this character do now, how will I make this plot > > interesting... " , then the novel would be shallow with cardboard > > characters, and that the story instead should flow from a deeper > > level naturally creating the writing. > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > I don't know what your relationship is with Mr. Bush but I > did > > > not > > > > > address him but you. > > > > > > > > > > If you like then read message Nr. 13867 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > That post was about stopping dialoges as they pop up. I thought > > in > > > > this post you meant to stop all dialoges so that no dialoges > > would > > > > ever pop up for one day, cleary a virtually impossible task. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you done that small task I told you to do, to stop > for > > > one > > > > > day > > > > > > > all innder dialogs ? No, you haven't ! I can see this in > > your > > > > > > posts, > > > > > > > they would have been different. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't remember that you have asked me this. I will try > this > > > > when, > > > > > > and if, George W. Bush can stop his inner dialogs for one > > > day. :- > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > > > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let go all that pompous shit of your dreamy mind and > > dig > > > a > > > > > hole > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > live there for the rest of your life. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everybody has a dreaming mind. That's what the human > mind > > > > does - > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > lives in a dream called 'me'. Haven't you noticed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > > > > > > > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The main obstcale is: " once " . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Once the clear insight of nowness comes, ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I must say: > > > > > > > > > > > Wow Anders, you know so much what happens if, > when, > > > > > could, > > > > > > > > > would ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes sir, I know that if, and when, my free soul at > > last > > > > > sees > > > > > > > > > itself, > > > > > > > > > > recognizes itself as free, then there will be > > freedom. > > > > So, > > > > > we > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > ask ourselves, why am I not free? What is this > prison > > I > > > > > call > > > > > > my > > > > > > > > > body > > > > > > > > > > and my life? Surely, freedom cannot come through > > > > > > identification > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > something temporal. Where is that steady flame > which > > > > looks > > > > > at > > > > > > > > time > > > > > > > > > > with compassion, shining in its eternal light; > giving > > > > birth > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > Lila, > > > > > > > > > > the fleeting game of life? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Scott > > > Andersen " > > > > > > > > > > > > <sga_email> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Eckhart Tolle said what I find to be an > > > > interesting > > > > > > > > > > statement. > > > > > > > > > > > He > > > > > > > > > > > > > > said that when people become more present, > > when > > > > > they > > > > > > > > reach > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > certain 'level' of the new state of > > > > consciousness, > > > > > > then > > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > > > simply choose to stop thinking> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I find it interesting when 'masters' proclaim > > > > things > > > > > > like > > > > > > > > > > *when* > > > > > > > > > > > > > people reach a new stage of development or > > > > > > consciousness > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > > > > > > *can* stop thinking etc etc.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone, you or I *now* with practice, can > stop > > > > > thought, > > > > > > > > empty > > > > > > > > > > > mind > > > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > > > a *meditation practice* and not only > available > > as > > > a > > > > > > > sought > > > > > > > > > > after > > > > > > > > > > > > > lofty height of accomplishment only > achievable > > by > > > > > those > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > > > > > reached a certain state. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I believe advice like the above can be > > misleading > > > > > > because > > > > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > > > > > > believe it is more difficult than it really > is, > > > or > > > > > that > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > capacity > > > > > > > > > > > > > to have a vacant mind is only available to a > > > select > > > > > few > > > > > > > who > > > > > > > > > > > > > have 'reached a certain state'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a marvelous statement. Simply by > > > > > > > > > > > > > > choosing to become fully present without > > > thought > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > thinking > > > > > > > > > > > > > stops.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, and anyone willing to put in the time > can > > > > > achieve > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > state > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > empty mind devoid of thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But I think that as long as one is > completely > > > > > caught > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > level > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > thinking, it is not possible to stop > > thinking. > > > > The > > > > > > > choice > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > come > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from a deeper knowing than thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you wrestle with your mind to stop > thinking, > > > it > > > > > will > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > fight > > > > > > > > > > > > > the control trying to be imposed on it. > > Stopping > > > > > > thinking > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > letting the mind settle of it's own accord, > > then > > > > the > > > > > > > *need* > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > thoughts do not arise also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you examine your thoughts first it then > > > becomes > > > > > > easier > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > mind empty because you know better the nature > > of > > > > the > > > > > > > thing > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > > trying to understand. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe worship of prana in itself can lead > to > > > > > > > > understanding > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > > > > > people, and it was for them this was > > mentioned. > > > > Or > > > > > > > maybe > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > word worship to point to a state of immense > > > > > > gratitude, > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > state > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which there are no words, but some word or > > > > > > combination > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > words > > > > > > > > > > > > had > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to be used. Also he could by prana mean > God, > > or > > > > the > > > > > > God- > > > > > > > > > > force, > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that worship of prana is the same as > worship > > of > > > > God > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > form > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of gratitude for the All. Or maybe he was > > just > > > > > making > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > confusing > > > > > > > > > > > > > > statement so that the intellect would go > > > around, > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > around, > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around until it would be exhausted so that > > > > > something > > > > > > > new > > > > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > > > > > > penetrate the human being. Many sages talk > > > about > > > > a > > > > > > > > vertical > > > > > > > > > > > > > dimension > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as the new state that will replace > > (complement, > > > > > > > > transcend) > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ordinary horizontal dimension of thinking > > about > > > > > past > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > future. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, could be any of the above, I myself am > > > > confused > > > > > as > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > why > > > > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > > > > > > > said it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have posted some other material that > > > > Nisargardatta > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > said > > > > > > > > > > > about > > > > > > > > > > > > > prana also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the direct contact with what is, the > obstacles > > > to > > > > > > > freedom > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > > > > revealed, and the seeker exposed. Once the > clear > > > > > insight > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > nowness > > > > > > > > > > > > comes, the obstacles begin to crumble, and the > > > story > > > > of > > > > > > > one's > > > > > > > > > > life > > > > > > > > > > > > fades away like mist before stark sunlight. > That > > > > prana > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > > > > > always been there now turns the stiffness into > a > > > > > blazing > > > > > > > > fire. > > > > > > > > > > > > Listen, somebody, please, bring me another can > of > > > > > Prana, > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > liquid > > > > > > > > > > > > Healer for mind body and my fragmented soul! :-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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