Guest guest Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Hello again, > What is time compression? > > How can we use infinite time compression? > > This single now you are speaking of is a moment in time, but the > whole span of time that you are speaking of does not occurr as a > moment in time now or stop up and until now as a moment in time year > 2004 as we define it, or at this particular state of evolution. > > *Everything* which includes what we call the past and future is over > *all* time, and all time NOW, big letters, is not a moment in time. >The future happens now, yes, but not yet> The future does not happen as a moment in time. Within time the past is just the memory and the future an imagining. >The past has already happened. The past has 'already happened' and only exists as memory, the future is but a creative imagining. But over all time these 'two' are 'one and real'. >Infinite time compression is the idea that this moment is the only moment there is. Think about it. > So infinite time compression is an idea to explain a belief? The only 'moment' that is, is within time. The eternal now, 'over all time' is not a moment within time. >The year 2003 is now and only now> Not as a moment in time. All 'years' > time exists over all time, the eternal now, but this eternal now is not now as a moment *within* time. >There has never been any year 2003 in the form of a past, but rather, the year 2003 happens now> No, 2003 is now our past and only exists as a memory *within* time, over the eternal NOW, all time, it is just as 'real' as now a moment in time. >The entire past is compressed into a zero second event which is now.> The entire past *and* future exists over all time. >This is infinite time compression. The now is infinite time compression> You are speaking of all time, and putting this all time into now as a moment in time. This is time compression yes, the idea of compressing time. >There is only now.> As the eternal now which has nothing to do with time. If you say all there is is now as a moment in time, I guess you can say this too, so long as you plan on living forever within time and keep saying, now, now, now, now forever >What other time than the now do we have? A memory of 2003, is that time? A memory of time, is that time? Yes, a memory of 2003 is time, the only time there is. The idea of the year 2005 is an extrapolation from memory, and that is also time. > Time exists to us as past, now ( as a moment in time ), future. We are always within time, and we are never outside of it, above it, beyond it, no matter what description you use. Memories of the past also occurr *within* time, and as changing phenomenon they also along with every phenomenon are a part of time and times arrows. 2005 is a future imagining of possibilities based yes on our memory of the past and what has occurred to us, we try to predict the future given our past or current circumstances, and the probabilities for things happening to us in the future. We also steer our way toward future goals through thinking about these probabilities and making them more real or probable. >But all time is now.> Not as a moment in time. All time IS NOW ( eternal NOW ) nothing to do with time. Kind Regards, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > > Hello again, > > > > What is time compression? > > > > How can we use infinite time compression? > > > > This single now you are speaking of is a moment in time, but the > > whole span of time that you are speaking of does not occurr as a > > moment in time now or stop up and until now as a moment in time > year > > 2004 as we define it, or at this particular state of evolution. > > > > *Everything* which includes what we call the past and future is > over > > *all* time, and all time NOW, big letters, is not a moment in time. > > > > >The future happens now, yes, but not yet> > > > The future does not happen as a moment in time. > > Within time the past is just the memory and the future an imagining. > > > >The past has already happened. > > > The past has 'already happened' and only exists as memory, the future > is but a creative imagining. > But over all time these 'two' are 'one and real'. > > > >Infinite time compression is the idea that this moment is > the only moment there is. Think about it. > > > > So infinite time compression is an idea to explain a belief? > > The only 'moment' that is, is within time. > The eternal now, 'over all time' is not a moment within time. > > > >The year 2003 is now and > only now> > > > Not as a moment in time. > > All 'years' > time exists over all time, the eternal now, but this > eternal now is not now as a moment *within* time. > > > >There has never been any year 2003 in the form of a past, but > rather, the year 2003 happens now> > > No, 2003 is now our past and only exists as a memory *within* time, > over the eternal NOW, all time, it is just as 'real' as now a moment > in time. > > > >The entire past is compressed into a zero second event which is now.> > > > The entire past *and* future exists over all time. > > > >This is infinite time compression. The now is infinite time > compression> > > > You are speaking of all time, and putting this all time into now as a > moment in time. > This is time compression yes, the idea of compressing time. > > > >There is only now.> > > > As the eternal now which has nothing to do with time. > > If you say all there is is now as a moment in time, I guess you can > say this too, so long as you plan on living forever within time and > keep saying, now, now, now, now forever > > > > >What other time than the now do we have? A memory of 2003, is that > time? A memory of time, is that time? Yes, a memory of 2003 is time, > the only time there is. The idea of the year 2005 is an extrapolation > from memory, and that is also time. > > > > Time exists to us as past, now ( as a moment in time ), future. > > We are always within time, and we are never outside of it, above it, > beyond it, no matter what description you use. > > Memories of the past also occurr *within* time, and as changing > phenomenon they also along with every phenomenon are a part of time > and times arrows. > > 2005 is a future imagining of possibilities based yes on our memory > of the past and what has occurred to us, we try to predict the future > given our past or current circumstances, and the probabilities for > things happening to us in the future. > > We also steer our way toward future goals through thinking about > these probabilities and making them more real or probable. > > > >But all time is now.> > > > Not as a moment in time. > > All time IS NOW ( eternal NOW ) nothing to do with time. > > > Kind Regards, > > Scott. The eternal NOW and this very now we experience now is the same now. :-) /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Scott Andersen <sga_email wrote: Hello again, > What is time compression? > > How can we use infinite time compression? --------- InfInIte has 3 I's + In It. tIme has an I and a ME. Just playin ( :<{)), Sorry, I know you're in serious debate. Bill W. ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , Bill wood <ameego2u> wrote: > InfInIte has 3 I's + In It. > > tIme has an I and a ME. > > Just playin ( :<{)), Sorry, I know you're in serious debate. > > Bill W. Great post, Bill, I will vote it for the post of the year! LOL S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Hi again, > > >But all time is now.> > > > > > > Not as a moment in time. > > > > All time IS NOW ( eternal NOW ) nothing to do with time. > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Scott. > The eternal NOW and this very now we experience now is the same > now. :-)> This very now is a moment in time, when now is spoken of by a being within time, it is always a moment *within* time. The eternal NOW is not within time, it includes 'ALL time' and has nothing to do with time. A ME is *always* within time. Kind Regards, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again, > > > > >But all time is now.> > > > > > > > > > Not as a moment in time. > > > > > > All time IS NOW ( eternal NOW ) nothing to do with time. > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > Scott. > > > > > The eternal NOW and this very now we experience now is the same > > now. :-)> > > This very now is a moment in time, when now is spoken of by a being > within time, it is always a moment *within* time. > > The eternal NOW is not within time, it includes 'ALL time' and has > nothing to do with time. > > A ME is *always* within time. > > > Kind Regards, > > Scott. Can't you see that when you say " eternal NOW " , that this eternal NOW is an idea in _this_ now? The eternal NOW and this now is the same now. The eternal NOW is infinite and will never end, and _within_ this eternal NOW there is the idea that it is infinite, but this is only an _idea_ within itself. There is only one now. A past now is not a real now and is not separate from this now. And the future is unfolding in _this_ now, the only now there is. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 Hi again, > > > The eternal NOW and this very now we experience now is the same > > > now. :-)> > > > > This very now is a moment in time, when now is spoken of by a being > > within time, it is always a moment *within* time. > > > > The eternal NOW is not within time, it includes 'ALL time' and has > > nothing to do with time. > > > > A ME is *always* within time. > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Scott. > > Can't you see that when you say " eternal NOW " , that this eternal NOW > is an idea in _this_ now?> Yes, everything done, every action, every idea and everything spoken or conceptualized by a any being is *within time*. >The eternal NOW and this now is the same > now.> No, this now is a moment in time marked by a ME within time. When a ME says 'this now', it 'marks' a moment within time *manifesTING* Within the temporal realm there are an infinite number of nows within times manifestaTION. NOW, the 'eternal now' is all time that ever was or 'will be' and is not now within time itself. >The eternal NOW is infinite and will never end, and _within_ > this eternal NOW there is the idea that it is infinite, but this is > only an _idea_ within itself> No, the eternal NOW, is not within time, and not 'time going on forever'. The idea and anything spoken of or conceptualized by a ME is within time, as is the ME itself. A ME can never be outside of time. >There is only one now> When a being experiences or when a ME says 'this now', it is one of an infinite number of nows within time. Within time 'now' exists *TO US* as a moment within phenomenal change, all beings and all things exist within this change, 'now' for all beings is a moment within time. >A past now is > not a real now> Within time ( now as a moment in time ), the past exists as a memory and the future in our imagination. There is not a past now, now spoken of by a being is *within time* and is always a *moment* within time, the past within time is a memory. The eternal now contains ALL time, and as time it also contains ALL phenomenonal change, and all events. >and is not separate from this now> This now is a moment *within time*, it is not 'ALL time'. When you speak of time it is within time. You are saying that memories exist only in this now ( a moment within time ); but over all time these memories are just as real as what is now passing through as a moment within time. And the future is > unfolding in _this_ now, the only now there is. The past and future exist over all time, and all time, the eternal now is not within time like the now you are *speaking of*. Kind Regards, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again, > > > > > The eternal NOW and this very now we experience now is the same > > > > now. :-)> > > > > > > This very now is a moment in time, when now is spoken of by a > being > > > within time, it is always a moment *within* time. > > > > > > The eternal NOW is not within time, it includes 'ALL time' and > has > > > nothing to do with time. > > > > > > A ME is *always* within time. > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > Scott. > > > > > > Can't you see that when you say " eternal NOW " , that this eternal > NOW > > is an idea in _this_ now?> > > > Yes, everything done, every action, every idea and everything spoken > or conceptualized by a any being is *within time*. > > > >The eternal NOW and this now is the same > > now.> > > > No, this now is a moment in time marked by a ME within time. > When a ME says 'this now', it 'marks' a moment within time > *manifesTING* > Within the temporal realm there are an infinite number of nows within > times manifestaTION. > > NOW, the 'eternal now' is all time that ever was or 'will be' and is > not now within time itself. Any 'mark' in time is now, either as a memory or as an idea about the future. So all marks are now. There cannot be any mark other than in this now. > > > >The eternal NOW is infinite and will never end, and _within_ > > this eternal NOW there is the idea that it is infinite, but this is > > only an _idea_ within itself> > > > No, the eternal NOW, is not within time, and not 'time going on > forever'. Any thinking about the eternal NOW is in this very now, the only now there is. We can think of a future, but that future will always remain an idea in this now. > > The idea and anything spoken of or conceptualized by a ME is within > time, as is the ME itself. > > A ME can never be outside of time. > > > >There is only one now> > > > When a being experiences or when a ME says 'this now', it is one of > an infinite number of nows within time. No, there is only one now. Any memory of a now separate from this now is not a real now separate from this now, but only a memory that is in _this_ now, the only now there is. > > Within time 'now' exists *TO US* as a moment within phenomenal > change, all beings and all things exist within this change, 'now' for > all beings is a moment within time. > > > >A past now is > > not a real now> > > > Within time ( now as a moment in time ), the past exists as a memory > and the future in our imagination. > > There is not a past now, now spoken of by a being is *within time* > and is always a *moment* within time, the past within time is a > memory. > > The eternal now contains ALL time, and as time it also contains ALL > phenomenonal change, and all events. The eternal now is a single event, this very event we are experiencing now is the eternal now. > > > >and is not separate from this now> > > > This now is a moment *within time*, it is not 'ALL time'. > When you speak of time it is within time. > > You are saying that memories exist only in this now ( a moment within > time ); but over all time these memories are just as real as what is > now passing through as a moment within time. There is no time as a real 'thing'. > > > And the future is > > unfolding in _this_ now, the only now there is. > > > The past and future exist over all time, and all time, the eternal > now is not within time like the now you are *speaking of*. I think of the now as a single event, the only event there is. /AL > > > Kind Regards, > > Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2004 Report Share Posted September 5, 2004 Hi again, > > NOW, the 'eternal now' is all time that ever was or 'will be' and > is > > not now within time itself. > Any 'mark' in time is now, either as a memory or as an idea about the > future.> Yes, everything 'done phenomenally' is *within time* including memories of the past and ideas about the future, all of these occurr within time. >So all marks are now> As a moment within time, not the eternal now. >There cannot be any mark other than in > this now. This now is a moment in time, not all time. > > >The eternal NOW is infinite and will never end, and _within_ > > > this eternal NOW there is the idea that it is infinite, but this > is > > > only an _idea_ within itself> > > > > > > No, the eternal NOW, is not within time, and not 'time going on > > forever'. > > Any thinking about the eternal NOW is in this very now, the only now > there is> Any thinking, any phenomenal thing is a moment within times manifestation, it is not 'outside of this manifestation' nor is it all time ( all past and future ). Time is manifestating 'now' as a moment within time, memories and thoughts about the future are a part of this manifestation. >We can think of a future, but that future will always > remain an idea in this now. Any thoughts about the future, memories of the past occur as moments *within time*. The future only exists as an idea in 'now' a moment *within time*. The past exists as a memory in 'now' a moment in time, not All time. > > The idea and anything spoken of or conceptualized by a ME is within > > time, as is the ME itself. > > > > A ME can never be outside of time. > > > > > > >There is only one now> > > > > > > When a being experiences or when a ME says 'this now', it is one of > > an infinite number of nows within time. > > No, there is only one now. Any memory of a now separate from this now > is not a real now separate from this now, but only a memory that is > in _this_ now, the only now there is.> No, memories occurr in *now a moment in time*. Over all time the past and future are 'one' and *real*. > > > > > Within time 'now' exists *TO US* as a moment within phenomenal > > change, all beings and all things exist within this change, 'now' > for > > all beings is a moment within time. > > > > > > >A past now is > > > not a real now> > > > > > > Within time ( now as a moment in time ), the past exists as a > memory > > and the future in our imagination. > > > > There is not a past now, now spoken of by a being is *within time* > > and is always a *moment* within time, the past within time is a > > memory. > > > > The eternal now contains ALL time, and as time it also contains ALL > > phenomenonal change, and all events. > > The eternal now is a single event, this very event we are > experiencing now is the eternal now. No, we are not experiencing all time. We are always within time and times manifestation. This now is a moment in time, in temporality there is an infinite number of nows occurring *within time* manifesting. > > >and is not separate from this now> > > > > > > This now is a moment *within time*, it is not 'ALL time'. > > When you speak of time it is within time. > > > > You are saying that memories exist only in this now ( a moment > within > > time ); but over all time these memories are just as real as what > is > > now passing through as a moment within time. > > There is no time as a real 'thing'. There is it is just not independent of phenomenon. Just as there is not truly any object independently arising. > > And the future is > > > unfolding in _this_ now, the only now there is. > > > > > > The past and future exist over all time, and all time, the eternal > > now is not within time like the now you are *speaking of*. > > I think of the now as a single event, the only event there is. When you are thinking or speaking of now you are speaking of a moment in time not all time. All time cannot 'be spoken of' by a being within time. Kind Regards, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again, > > > > NOW, the 'eternal now' is all time that ever was or 'will be' and > > is > > > not now within time itself. > > > Any 'mark' in time is now, either as a memory or as an idea about > the > > future.> > > Yes, everything 'done phenomenally' is *within time* including > memories of the past and ideas about the future, all of these occurr > within time. > > > >So all marks are now> > > As a moment within time, not the eternal now. > > > >There cannot be any mark other than in > > this now. > > This now is a moment in time, not all time. My idea is that this moment is all time happening in a 'zero second' slice called the now. Everything happens in a single infinte instant. > > > > > > >The eternal NOW is infinite and will never end, and _within_ > > > > this eternal NOW there is the idea that it is infinite, but > this > > is > > > > only an _idea_ within itself> > > > > > > > > > No, the eternal NOW, is not within time, and not 'time going on > > > forever'. > > > > Any thinking about the eternal NOW is in this very now, the only > now > > there is> > > > Any thinking, any phenomenal thing is a moment within times > manifestation, it is not 'outside of this manifestation' nor is it > all time ( all past and future ). > > Time is manifestating 'now' as a moment within time, memories and > thoughts about the future are a part of this manifestation. > > > >We can think of a future, but that future will always > > remain an idea in this now. > > Any thoughts about the future, memories of the past occur as moments > *within time*. > > The future only exists as an idea in 'now' a moment *within time*. > The past exists as a memory in 'now' a moment in time, not All time. The only reason we don't see 'All time' is becuase this single now is infinite and we will never see the end of it because it is endless. Yet this endless event is a single event as I see it, an indivisible event. You can define the future any way you like and call it something outside this now, but your definition will not be outside this now - nothing will ever be outside this now. > > > > > The idea and anything spoken of or conceptualized by a ME is > within > > > time, as is the ME itself. > > > > > > A ME can never be outside of time. > > > > > > > > > >There is only one now> > > > > > > > > > When a being experiences or when a ME says 'this now', it is one > of > > > an infinite number of nows within time. > > > > No, there is only one now. Any memory of a now separate from this > now > > is not a real now separate from this now, but only a memory that is > > in _this_ now, the only now there is.> > > > No, memories occurr in *now a moment in time*. > Over all time the past and future are 'one' and *real*. There is a 'now a moment in time' sort of, and that is this now, and the reason it is a moment in time 'sort of' is because this now is infinite and will continue forever. This now is the eternal NOW you talk about. We can think about this eternal now including all future there is, but that is just a definition, a thought in _this_ now. We can say that the eternal now is thinking about itself, but it can never reach the end of itself, because it is endless. > > > > > > > > > > Within time 'now' exists *TO US* as a moment within phenomenal > > > change, all beings and all things exist within this change, 'now' > > for > > > all beings is a moment within time. > > > > > > > > > >A past now is > > > > not a real now> > > > > > > > > > Within time ( now as a moment in time ), the past exists as a > > memory > > > and the future in our imagination. > > > > > > There is not a past now, now spoken of by a being is *within > time* > > > and is always a *moment* within time, the past within time is a > > > memory. > > > > > > The eternal now contains ALL time, and as time it also contains > ALL > > > phenomenonal change, and all events. > > > > The eternal now is a single event, this very event we are > > experiencing now is the eternal now. > > > No, we are not experiencing all time. > We are always within time and times manifestation. > > This now is a moment in time, in temporality there is an infinite > number of nows occurring *within time* manifesting. This now is all there is. Everything else you can think of that is not a part of this now is only a thought and that thought itself is within this now. There is a different between what is, and what can be thought of. > > > > > > >and is not separate from this now> > > > > > > > > > This now is a moment *within time*, it is not 'ALL time'. > > > When you speak of time it is within time. > > > > > > You are saying that memories exist only in this now ( a moment > > within > > > time ); but over all time these memories are just as real as what > > is > > > now passing through as a moment within time. > > > > There is no time as a real 'thing'. > > > There is it is just not independent of phenomenon. > > Just as there is not truly any object independently arising. I see all time as being a part of this now. Then what about the future? What future? If you mean what we think of as the future, then that future is nothing but thoughts and feelings in _this_ now. The human intellect is very good at fooling itself to believe its own projections: " There _is_ a future " , the intellect will say, but when we look at this assumption we can see that it is false. We will _never_ experience the future, or rather, we have already experienced the future, but not yet. > > > > > And the future is > > > > unfolding in _this_ now, the only now there is. > > > > > > > > > The past and future exist over all time, and all time, the > eternal > > > now is not within time like the now you are *speaking of*. > > > > I think of the now as a single event, the only event there is. > > When you are thinking or speaking of now you are speaking of a moment > in time not all time. > All time cannot 'be spoken of' by a being within time. 'All time' is just a thought is this now. I am talking about what is real: this now. There is no other now. :-) /AL > > > Kind Regards, > > Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 Hi again, > > As a moment within time, not the eternal now. > > > > > > >There cannot be any mark other than in > > > this now. > > > > This now is a moment in time, not all time. > My idea is that this moment is all time happening in a 'zero second' > slice called the now. Everything happens in a single infinte instant.> Ok, this is your idea. > > >We can think of a future, but that future will always > > > remain an idea in this now. > > > > Any thoughts about the future, memories of the past occur as > moments > > *within time*. > > > > The future only exists as an idea in 'now' a moment *within time*. > > The past exists as a memory in 'now' a moment in time, not All time. > > The only reason we don't see 'All time' is becuase this single now is > infinite and we will never see the end of it because it is endless. Now as a moment in time is not infinite, there are an infinite number of in time nows. > Yet this endless event is a single event as I see it, an indivisible > event. You can define the future any way you like and call it > something outside this now, but your definition will not be outside > this now - nothing will ever be outside this now. This now, the now that you are speaking of is *within time* and the future only exists within in-times nows as an imagining. The future is never real as a *now within time*. > > No, memories occurr in *now a moment in time*. > > Over all time the past and future are 'one' and *real*. > > There is a 'now a moment in time' sort of, and that is this now, and > the reason it is a moment in time 'sort of' is because this now is > infinite and will continue forever. This now is a moment *within time* and not infinite. There are an infinite number of in-time nows. >This now is the eternal NOW you > talk about. We can think about this eternal now including all future > there is, but that is just a definition, a thought in _this_ now. This definition and thought about the future is occuring *within time*. The eternal now is all time, 'past present future'. Now as a moment within time only contains the past and future as thoughts and memories. >We > can say that the eternal now is thinking about itself, but it can > never reach the end of itself, because it is endless.> Endless yet complete? > > No, we are not experiencing all time. > > We are always within time and times manifestation. > > > > This now is a moment in time, in temporality there is an infinite > > number of nows occurring *within time* manifesting. > > This now is all there is.> No, this now is a moment in time. >Everything else you can think of that is > not a part of this now is only a thought and that thought itself is > within this now.> As a moment within time, not the eternal now. >There is a different between what is, and what can > be thought of. Yes, and this is how both the future and past exist within in-time nows; as a memory and an imagining. > > > > You are saying that memories exist only in this now ( a moment > > > within > > > > time ); but over all time these memories are just as real as > what > > > is > > > > now passing through as a moment within time. > > > > > > There is no time as a real 'thing'. > > > > > > There is it is just not independent of phenomenon. > > > > Just as there is not truly any object independently arising. > > I see all time as being a part of this now. Then what about the > future? What future? If you mean what we think of as the future, then > that future is nothing but thoughts and feelings in _this_ now.> No, the future is *real*, over all time. You have been talking about now as a moment *within time* and applying *all time* to it, saying that the past and future only exist as memories and thoughts but this happens within in-time nows not over all time. >The > human intellect is very good at fooling itself to believe its own > projections: " There _is_ a future " , the intellect will say, but when > we look at this assumption we can see that it is false. We will > _never_ experience the future, or rather, we have already experienced > the future, but not yet. All thoughts about the future that occurr within time are imaginings. > > > I think of the now as a single event, the only event there is. > > > > When you are thinking or speaking of now you are speaking of a > moment > > in time not all time. > > All time cannot 'be spoken of' by a being within time. > > 'All time' is just a thought is this now. I am talking about what is > real: this now. There is no other now. :-) You mean this now? This now is a moment *within time* and you and me can never be outside of it. Kind Regards, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again, > .... > > > > 'All time' is just a thought is this now. I am talking about what > is > > real: this now. There is no other now. :-) > > > You mean this now? > > This now is a moment *within time* and you and me can never be > outside of it. > > > Kind Regards, > > Scott. What I have is the idea of this now as a single indivisible event. It is difficult to describe what appears like past, present and future as one event, when this event obviously is not complete yet. This event is infinite and will never be complete. I understand what you mean by eternal NOW, and as a concept we can think of the eternal NOW as all 'nows' together: past, present and future. My idea is that there is only one now, an indivisible event, and we are that now itself. Julian Barbour has an interesting new theory about a timeless universe where existence consists of timeless 'nows' competing with each other to be experienced. He uses the mathematical concept of a configuration space to describe how all 'nows' timelessly exist in one absolute domain he calls 'Platonia'. My idea is that there is only _one_ now, that Platonia itself is the single timeless now we experience as our reality, and that this now is the only 'thing' there is, and that this 'thing' is indivisible; it is _one_ timeless event. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 Hi again, > > > > > > 'All time' is just a thought is this now. I am talking about what > > is > > > real: this now. There is no other now. :-) > > > > > > You mean this now? > > > > This now is a moment *within time* and you and me can never be > > outside of it. > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Scott. > >> What I have is the idea of this now as a single indivisible event. It > is difficult to describe what appears like past, present and future > as one event, when this event obviously is not complete yet.> From within time it is not yet complete, over all time it is 'already' complete. >This > event is infinite and will never be complete.> This is a perspective and concept from *within time* >I understand what you > mean by eternal NOW, and as a concept we can think of the eternal NOW > > as all 'nows' together: past, present and future.> Within time now occurrs as infinite moments of temporal change. The eternal now is ALL time that was, is or ever will be, or rather the eternal now is all the time that IS. >My idea is that > there is only one now, an indivisible event, and we are that now > itself.> We are not the eternal now, nor are we the now as a moment in time. >Julian Barbour has an interesting new theory about a timeless > universe where existence consists of timeless 'nows' competing with > each other to be experienced.> Competing nows? He uses the mathematical concept of a > configuration space to describe how all 'nows' timelessly exist in > one absolute domain he calls 'Platonia'. My idea is that there is > only _one_ now, that Platonia itself is the single timeless now we > experience as our reality, and that this now is the only 'thing' > there is, and that this 'thing' is indivisible; it is _one_ timeless > event. Yes, this is an idea and occurrs within time. Kind Regards, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again, > > > > > > > > > 'All time' is just a thought is this now. I am talking about > what > > > is > > > > real: this now. There is no other now. :-) > > > > > > > > > You mean this now? > > > > > > This now is a moment *within time* and you and me can never be > > > outside of it. > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > > > Scott. > > > >> What I have is the idea of this now as a single indivisible event. > It > > is difficult to describe what appears like past, present and future > > as one event, when this event obviously is not complete yet.> > > From within time it is not yet complete, over all time it > is 'already' complete. From within time is the perspective of now, and that is a true perspective. Over all time is a concept and not an actual experience. > > > >This > > event is infinite and will never be complete.> > > > This is a perspective and concept from *within time* Yes, I agree. > > > >I understand what you > > mean by eternal NOW, and as a concept we can think of the eternal > NOW > > > as all 'nows' together: past, present and future.> > > > Within time now occurrs as infinite moments of temporal change. > > The eternal now is ALL time that was, is or ever will be, or rather > the eternal now is all the time that IS. > > > >My idea is that > > there is only one now, an indivisible event, and we are that now > > itself.> > > > We are not the eternal now, nor are we the now as a moment in time. There is only one real eternal now, and that is this now. The eternal NOW containing all the future is a concept and will always remain only a concept within this now. > > > >Julian Barbour has an interesting new theory about a timeless > > universe where existence consists of timeless 'nows' competing with > > each other to be experienced.> > > Competing nows? He describes a wave function that 'picks' nows based on their probabilites to be experienced. /AL > > > He uses the mathematical concept of a > > configuration space to describe how all 'nows' timelessly exist in > > one absolute domain he calls 'Platonia'. My idea is that there is > > only _one_ now, that Platonia itself is the single timeless now we > > experience as our reality, and that this now is the only 'thing' > > there is, and that this 'thing' is indivisible; it is _one_ > timeless > > event. > > Yes, this is an idea and occurrs within time. > > > Kind Regards, > > Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 Hi again, > > From within time it is not yet complete, over all time it > > is 'already' complete. > > From within time is the perspective of now, and that is a true > perspective> This perspective is of now as a moment within time, not the eternal now. >Over all time is a concept and not an actual experience.> 'Over all time is a concept and not an actual experience' is also a concept or belief. Our belief does not change what IS. > > >My idea is that > > > there is only one now, an indivisible event, and we are that now > > > itself.> > > > > > > We are not the eternal now, nor are we the now as a moment in time. > > There is only one real eternal now, and that is this now> No, this now as a moment in time is not all time. From within time now is a moment in time. >The eternal > NOW containing all the future is a concept and will always remain > only a concept within this now. As spoken of within time yes, it can only be spoken of within time as concept. Any movement, doing, thinking, acting, conceptualizing is *always* within time. > > >Julian Barbour has an interesting new theory about a timeless > > > universe where existence consists of timeless 'nows' competing > with > > > each other to be experienced.> > > > > Competing nows? > > He describes a wave function that 'picks' nows based on their > probabilites to be experienced. I see. You are preaching to the ignorant here, sorry I know nothing about wave functions. I wonder if God understands wave functions? Kind Regards, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again, > > > > From within time it is not yet complete, over all time it > > > is 'already' complete. > > > > From within time is the perspective of now, and that is a true > > perspective> > > This perspective is of now as a moment within time, not the eternal > now. There is only one true perspective and that is the perspective in the present moment. :-) > > >Over all time is a concept and not an actual experience.> > > > 'Over all time is a concept and not an actual experience' is also a > concept or belief. > > Our belief does not change what IS. Of course not. All there is is now. > > > > > > >My idea is that > > > > there is only one now, an indivisible event, and we are that > now > > > > itself.> > > > > > > > > > We are not the eternal now, nor are we the now as a moment in > time. > > > > There is only one real eternal now, and that is this now> > > > > No, this now as a moment in time is not all time. From within time > now is a moment in time. You have an idea of all time, but that is only an idea in this now. I can show you the now - I can point out to you that you are in this now right now. :-) Can you show me 'all time' other than as a concept within _this_ now? > > > >The eternal > > NOW containing all the future is a concept and will always remain > > only a concept within this now. > > > As spoken of within time yes, it can only be spoken of within time as > concept. > Any movement, doing, thinking, acting, conceptualizing is *always* > within time. Everything is *always* now. Hehe. > > > > > > >Julian Barbour has an interesting new theory about a timeless > > > > universe where existence consists of timeless 'nows' competing > > with > > > > each other to be experienced.> > > > > > > Competing nows? > > > > He describes a wave function that 'picks' nows based on their > > probabilites to be experienced. > > > I see. > You are preaching to the ignorant here, sorry > I know nothing about wave functions. > > I wonder if God understands wave functions? > > Kind Regards, > > Scott. I don't know exactly how this wave function he describes works. It has some connection to wave functions used in quantum mechanics I believe. His book is a bit too advanced for me, but I really loved his explanation of what the mathematical concept of a configuration space is. Simply brilliant! Someday I will re-read his book [again], and then maybe I will understand more about his theory. But I cannot see how there could be several 'nows'. I have a gut feeling that there is only one indivisible now, and that this now is all there is. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Hi again, > > This perspective is of now as a moment within time, not the eternal > > now. > > There is only one true perspective and that is the perspective in the > present moment. :-) There is not one perspective, there are infinite perspectives. Any perspective that *we* have is within time, we cannot be outside of time, and we do not have the perspective of ALL time, or the eternal now. > > >Over all time is a concept and not an actual experience.> > > > > > > 'Over all time is a concept and not an actual experience' is also a > > concept or belief. > > > > Our belief does not change what IS. > > Of course not. All there is is now. As a moment in time, yes, as all time, no. > > > > >My idea is that > > > > > there is only one now, an indivisible event, and we are that > > now > > > > > itself.> > > > > > > > > > > > > We are not the eternal now, nor are we the now as a moment in > > time. > > > > > > There is only one real eternal now, and that is this now> > > > > > > > > No, this now as a moment in time is not all time. From within time > > now is a moment in time. > > You have an idea of all time, but that is only an idea in this now. I > can show you the now - Yes, the concept of all time appears within an in time now. The eternal now, ( not as a concept ) IS all time. >I can point out to you that you are in this > now right now. :-) Which now, this now? This now is a moment in time. >Can you show me 'all time' other than as a concept > within _this_ now? Can you show me your mind? You and me are within time and we can never be outside of it. > > >The eternal > > > NOW containing all the future is a concept and will always remain > > > only a concept within this now. > > > > > > As spoken of within time yes, it can only be spoken of within time > as > > concept. > > Any movement, doing, thinking, acting, conceptualizing is *always* > > within time. > > Everything is *always* now. Hehe. No, *everything* is not now a moment in time. The future exists as a moment in time only in the imagination and the past only exists as memory within in time nows. > > > > I see. > > You are preaching to the ignorant here, sorry > > I know nothing about wave functions. > > > > I wonder if God understands wave functions? > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Scott. > > I don't know exactly how this wave function he describes works. It > has some connection to wave functions used in quantum mechanics I > believe. His book is a bit too advanced for me, but I really loved > his explanation of what the mathematical concept of a configuration > space is. Simply brilliant! Someday I will re-read his book [again], > and then maybe I will understand more about his theory. But I cannot > see how there could be several 'nows'. I have a gut feeling that > there is only one indivisible now, and that this now is all there is. I'm afraid I cannot offer any comment on wave functions Kind Regards, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again, .... > > > > > Everything is *always* now. Hehe. > > > No, *everything* is not now a moment in time. > > The future exists as a moment in time only in the imagination and the > past only exists as memory within in time nows. > Everything is now. You can have all thoughts you like, but that will still only be thoughts in this now. The future? Only thoughts in this now. The past? Only thoughts in this now. Everything, _everything_ is in this now. There is nothing outside this now. See? You may say: " There is something outside this now: the future " Then I will simply say: " Your idea about the future is a thought in this now. There is _only_ this now. See? " /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2004 Report Share Posted September 8, 2004 Hi again, > > No, *everything* is not now a moment in time. > > > > The future exists as a moment in time only in the imagination and > the > > past only exists as memory within in time nows. > > > > Everything is now> Everything is not now as a moment in time. You can have all thoughts you like, but that will > still only be thoughts in this now. The future? Only thoughts in this > now. The past? Only thoughts in this now> Yes. >Everything, _everything_ is > in this now> No, not everything, within now a moment in time. >There is nothing outside this now. See? You may The past and future which exist over all time are outside of this now which is only a moment *within time*. > say: " There is something outside this now: the future " Then I will > simply say: " Your idea about the future is a thought in this now. > There is _only_ this now. See? " As a moment in time, not over all time, everything is not occurring within this now, a moment in time. You are imagining that now as a moment within time is the only now there is. Now as a moment within time is the future as an imagining and the past as memory, now within time does not include all time. Kind Regards, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 Dear AL, Everything is now. Kip: Prove it! This is an assumption, Al, which can or cannot have some didactical or pedagogical value. A hypothesis for me, a thesis for you. You can have all thoughts you like, Kip: Wrong, even physiologically! but that will still only be thoughts in this now. Kip: this is a conclusion based on your thesis. A philosophical assumption or not even that. A phantasm based on a conclusion based on a hypothesis and playing rhetorically with the phenomena we experience as evident and or paradoxically regarding the concept of time. The future? Only thoughts in this now. Kip: Ditto. Everyone, perhaps even in the Kindergarten, knows that, so to say. The past? Only thoughts in this now. Kip: False! There is a difference between the concepts past and future in your perception. That's the reason why you are able to negate such a difference. Everything, _everything_ is in this now. Kip: Are you a Guru, Al? Nothing will change if you repeat this assumption, like a mantra, in great profusion publically. You should know that! There is nothing outside this now. Kip: and even inside! See? You may say: " There is something outside this now: the future " Then I will simply say: " Your idea about the future is a thought in this now. There is _only_ this now. See? " Kip: And then? You have learned to play with a concept chess! That's all! See? Hälsningar Kip Almazy P.S. Take a step beyond that! And tell me what do you see, Al? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again, > .... > > >There is nothing outside this now. See? You may > > > The past and future which exist over all time are outside of this now > which is only a moment *within time*. > What you call past and future are only thoughts in this now. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> wrote: > Dear AL, > > > Everything is now. > > > Kip: Prove it! This is an assumption, Al, which can or cannot have > some didactical or pedagogical value. A hypothesis for me, a thesis > for you. I can only prove what I experience, and I experience only the now. > > > You can have all thoughts you like, > > > Kip: Wrong, even physiologically! Ok, you can have all the thoughts that you have. :-) > > > but that will still only be thoughts in this now. > > > Kip: this is a conclusion based on your thesis. A philosophical > assumption or not even that. A phantasm based on a conclusion based > on a hypothesis and playing rhetorically with the phenomena we > experience as evident and or paradoxically regarding the concept of > time. It is a fact. You can only experience the now. > > > > The future? Only thoughts in this now. > > > Kip: Ditto. Everyone, perhaps even in the Kindergarten, knows that, > so to say. Intellectual understanding will get you nowhere. > > > The past? Only thoughts in this now. > > > Kip: False! There is a difference between the concepts past and > future in your perception. That's the reason why you are able to > negate such a difference. True. What we call the future is an extrapolation created from the past. > > > > Everything, _everything_ is in this now. > > > Kip: Are you a Guru, Al? Nothing will change if you repeat this > assumption, like a mantra, in great profusion publically. You should > know that! I am trying to convince myself not to worry about the future. > > > There is nothing outside this now. > > Kip: and even inside! > > > See? You may say: " There is something outside this now: the future " > Then I will > simply say: " Your idea about the future is a thought in this now. > There is _only_ this now. See? " > > Kip: And then? You have learned to play with a concept chess! That's > all! See? But have I realized the timeless now? > > > Hälsningar > Kip Almazy > > > P.S. Take a step beyond that! And tell me what do you see, Al? Beyond the now? I see the future and I see the past. Can I see all my past? No. I don't even remember what thoughts I had 30 minutes ago! /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2004 Report Share Posted September 9, 2004 Hi again, > > > > >There is nothing outside this now. See? You may > > > > > > The past and future which exist over all time are outside of this > now > > which is only a moment *within time*. > > > > What you call past and future are only thoughts in this now. As now a moment *within time*, yes, this is how the past and future exist to us, as memory and in our imagination. As the eternal now, no, all time is encompassed. Now a moment within time is *not* the only now there is. Kind Regards, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2004 Report Share Posted September 10, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Scott Andersen " <sga_email> wrote: > > Hi again, > > > > > > > >There is nothing outside this now. See? You may > > > > > > > > > The past and future which exist over all time are outside of this > > now > > > which is only a moment *within time*. > > > > > > > What you call past and future are only thoughts in this now. > > > As now a moment *within time*, yes, this is how the past and future > exist to us, as memory and in our imagination. > > As the eternal now, no, all time is encompassed. > > Now a moment within time is *not* the only now there is. > > > Kind Regards, > > Scott. What I am saying is that the eternal now is this now. *Within* this now is the knowledge and understanding that there is a future. I am thinking of this now as a single event. I have had much problem understanding the possibility of a single now, but I really believe there is only one now, one single event, which is not really an event but rather is what is. Some may say: " The now of yesterday is not the same now as today " , but I say that the now of yesterday is this now. Some may say that the future will bring other 'nows', but I say that the future is this now. How can a single event create the flow of time? Simply because the single event called now is infinite. What the scientists call the Big Bang started now. And the future, where is the future? The future is a result of the fact that infinity has no end. The future is now and will always be now. Then some may say: " We can think of the eternal now as containing all future " , but then I say that this now already contains all future. Why then, is the future not here? The future _is_ here; past, present and future is a _single_ event, happening now. But then someone may say that tomorrow is not here yet, and then I say that tomorrow is already here, it has already happened, but not yet. Why not yet? Because the single moment of now is infinite, there will aways be a 'not yet', there will aways be a future. Isn't then the future different from the present moment? The future is 'same- same, but different'. There will always be newness. There will always be new information exploding into being. Reality is an expansion into the infinite. How can there be change, how can there be movement withing a _single_ event? Think of the single event as an unfoldment of self-relation: existence in relation to itself. First there is existence (E), but this existence contains a relation to itself (E <-> E), and that relation contains a relation to itself ((E <-> E) <-> (E <-> E)), and so on... Reality is an explosion of self-relation wich we can call the unfolding of information. How fast is the information in the universe increasing? The answer is that the information in the universe inreases with infinite 'speed', and this increase of information is what creates the arrow of time. Mind you: reality is still only _one_ event, but this event is infinite and 'expands' informationally infinitely fast. Hmm... Maybe this last was more a philosphical statement/speculation than a spiritual one, but hey, science, philosophy, sprituality e t c is _one_ experience. :-) /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2004 Report Share Posted September 13, 2004 Hi again, >What I am saying is that the eternal now is this now> No, the eternal now is not a moment *within time*. The only eternal now within time is a concept. >*Within* this now is the knowledge and understanding that there is a future> This now is a moment in time and the future is an imagining, the past is memory. >I am thinking of this now as a single event. I have had much problem understanding the possibility of a single now, but I really believe there is only one now, one single event> This Now, a moment within time, is not a single event. >which is not really an event but rather is what is. Some may say: " The now of yesterday is not the same now as today " , but I say that the now of yesterday is this now.> Yesterday only ocurrs in *now a moment in time* as a memory. >Some may say that the future will bring other 'nows', but I say that the future is this now.> No, the future is not now, a moment in time, as now a moment in time the future is a dreaming of a ME. >How can a single event create the flow of time? Simply because the single event called now is infinite. >What the scientists call the Big Bang started now> No, the event called the big bang did not start now because now is a moment in time, it happened exactly how many years ago it has been said to have happened, and the happening of the past so many billion years has made the time period itself. >And the future, where is the future?> The future *within time* is an imagining. >The future is a result of the fact that infinity has no end> No, the future is the result of us not being aware of all time, and being beings *within* time. >The future is now and will always be now> No, the future is not now, the future only exists in our imagination within time and as beings we are *always* within time. >Then some may say: " We can think of the eternal now as containing all future " , but then I say that this now already contains all future. Why then, is the future not here? The future _is_ here; past, present and future is a _single_ event, happening now.> >But then someone may say that tomorrow is not here yet, and then I say that tomorrow is already here, it has already happened, but not yet. Why not yet? Because the single moment of now is infinite, there will aways be a 'not yet', there will aways be a future.> Is there a future in all time? >Isn't then the future different from the present moment? The future is 'same- same, but different'. There will always be newness. There will always be new information exploding into being. Reality is an expansion into the infinite.> >How can there be change, how can there be movement withing a _single_ event? Think of the single event as an unfoldment of self-relation: existence in relation to itself. First there is existence (E), but this existence contains a relation to itself (E <-> E), and that relation contains a relation to itself ((E <-> E) <-> (E <-> E)), and so on...> No, The whole is an indivisible existence, and as a whole does not relate to itself as that whole. Using the term 'E' and the above expressions is unnecessary: call it all that is, the whole, and the whole cannot reflect or interact with itself as that whole, or saying ( E <-> E ) is incorrect, as are the subsequent expressions. >Reality is an explosion of self-relation wich we can call the unfolding of information> No, this is your conception of what reality is. >How fast is the information in the universe increasing? The answer is that the information in the universe inreases with infinite 'speed', > You are measuring 'information' 'increasing'? >and this increase of information is what creates the arrow of time> The behaviour of the phenomenon, all of it, creates times arrows. Kind Regards, Scott. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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