Guest guest Posted September 19, 2004 Report Share Posted September 19, 2004 Hi, im a new joinee. i have been thru some other internet advaita lists.im in this spiritual thing since about past 15 years.the route has been paramhansa yogoda--rk-vivekananda--nsg mhj--blskr....with some study of modern physics,capitalism and western philosophy thrown in. since i have joined this list with a specific purpose to enrich my understanding of nsg-blskr. without further ado, i send forth my 1st post. i have some observations/distillations/questions...seeks comments- 1.balsekar is taken to be Mhj's most authentic interpreter.but to me most of his stuff appears as spiritual truisms-- " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want knowing fully well that you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual web,great story.But then-- whats the big deal?this is kindergarten stuff...may i kindly ask what has been his realization,what has being his own sadhana, what is his own unique experience--rather than parroting-- " all i say is a concept " . Can anyone share with me - what has been their most concrete benefit from balsekar?? the one benefit i derived from balsekar is that he helped me in de- baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of conceptual baggage.but he has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of " DOING " -the joy of individual self effort in spiritual practice and has lulled me into a dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as an individual entity but when it comes to meditation the mind has found a large number of balsekaric excuses. but i am where i was.none the wiser after his merry go round. maybe he is propounding a very subtle concept which is enabling his followers to forget the past and dont care about future--enabling them to live in the NOW ,which itself is a big meditation. but i want to ask the list members,what has been their experience?? plus there are the allegations about him being a wei-wu-wei copycat-- somehow i feel quite uneasy about his whole conceptual web. will be thankful if the list can help me to get to the bottom of this fishy stuff 2. my second frustration is with the religious guys as a whole.........why cant they speak with one voice....im an indian and i can really understand how frustrating it cud be for the westerner. someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds it...someone rejects karma,others accept it. no two so-called realised souls speak the same concepts.even if you take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM THAT..some totally different concepts in the end of his life....so??what happened -did his programming go haywire.. i mean i am noone to doubt another--but i can only judge by appearance ..i am not a jnani:-)) if this is wot there is to show for 10000+ years of spirituality then there is something seriously flawed somewhere:-))!!! no offences meant. rgds, devendra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " coolasafool " <coolasafool> wrote: > Hi, > im a new joinee. i have been thru some other internet advaita > lists.im in this spiritual thing since about past 15 years.the route > has been > > paramhansa yogoda--rk-vivekananda--nsg mhj--blskr....with some study > of modern physics,capitalism and western philosophy thrown in. > since i have joined this list with a specific purpose to enrich my > understanding of nsg-blskr. without further ado, i send forth my 1st > post. > > i have some observations/distillations/questions...seeks comments- > > 1.balsekar is taken to be Mhj's most authentic interpreter.but to me > most of his stuff appears as spiritual truisms-- > > " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want knowing fully well that > you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual web,great story.But then-- > whats the big deal?this is kindergarten stuff...may i kindly ask what > has been his realization,what has being his own sadhana, what is his > own unique experience--rather than parroting-- " all i say is a > concept " . > Can anyone share with me - what has been their most concrete benefit > from balsekar?? > the one benefit i derived from balsekar is that he helped me in de- > baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of conceptual baggage.but he > has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of " DOING " -the joy of > individual self effort in spiritual practice and has lulled me into a > dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as an > individual entity but when it comes to meditation the mind has found > a large number of balsekaric excuses. > but i am where i was.none the wiser after his merry go round. > > maybe he is propounding a very subtle concept which is enabling his > followers to forget the past and dont care about future--enabling > them to live in the NOW ,which itself is a big meditation. > > but i want to ask the list members,what has been their experience?? > plus there are the allegations about him being a wei-wu-wei copycat-- > somehow i feel quite uneasy about his whole conceptual web. will be > thankful if the list can help me to get to the bottom of this fishy > stuff > > 2. my second frustration is with the religious guys as a > whole.........why cant they speak with one voice....im an indian and > i can really understand how frustrating it cud be for the westerner. > > someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds it...someone rejects > karma,others accept it. > no two so-called realised souls speak the same concepts.even if you > take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM THAT..some totally > different concepts in the end of his life....so??what happened -did > his programming go haywire.. > i mean i am noone to doubt another--but i can only judge by > appearance ..i am not a jnani:-)) > > if this is wot there is to show for 10000+ years of spirituality then > there is something seriously flawed somewhere:-))!!! > > > > no offences meant. > rgds, > devendra ........no matter what any " sage " tells you......there is absolutely nothing the self can do to fix its imaginary defects....... any attempt by the self to change its perceived circumstances is self-centered and doomed to failure...... the only reason that the self wants to change itself is the misconception that there is something wrong.....and the only thing that is wrong is the inborn tenacity to change itself into an idealized super-self. the desire to change itself is only a clever trick to make itself appear real..... even the hope for the total loss of the need to understand....is only another desire to change oneself and adds to the circularity of mind's dilemma.....a predicament that is itself the mind's totality....... the mind can never be used to get perspective on the mind.....but...unfortunately...that is the only tool available........ stopping the search entirely.....could possibly help............. but just try that........and watch what happens........ well...........I hope you feel better...........and welcome to the group........:-) toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Welcome Devendra. So, if reading Ramesh didn't help you, forget about him. Now, suppose 10 people here tell you, he was a great help to them, how is that going to help you? Just set aside a time every day for being alert, and completly attentive without any goal in mind. That sounds like something even an ardent non-doer can do. Maybe even something Ramesh himself does. Pete Nisargadatta , " coolasafool " <coolasafool> wrote: > Hi, > im a new joinee. i have been thru some other internet advaita > lists.im in this spiritual thing since about past 15 years.the route > has been > > paramhansa yogoda--rk-vivekananda--nsg mhj--blskr....with some study > of modern physics,capitalism and western philosophy thrown in. > since i have joined this list with a specific purpose to enrich my > understanding of nsg-blskr. without further ado, i send forth my 1st > post. > > i have some observations/distillations/questions...seeks comments- > > 1.balsekar is taken to be Mhj's most authentic interpreter.but to me > most of his stuff appears as spiritual truisms-- > > " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want knowing fully well that > you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual web,great story.But then-- > whats the big deal?this is kindergarten stuff...may i kindly ask what > has been his realization,what has being his own sadhana, what is his > own unique experience--rather than parroting-- " all i say is a > concept " . > Can anyone share with me - what has been their most concrete benefit > from balsekar?? > the one benefit i derived from balsekar is that he helped me in de- > baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of conceptual baggage.but he > has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of " DOING " -the joy of > individual self effort in spiritual practice and has lulled me into a > dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as an > individual entity but when it comes to meditation the mind has found > a large number of balsekaric excuses. > but i am where i was.none the wiser after his merry go round. > > maybe he is propounding a very subtle concept which is enabling his > followers to forget the past and dont care about future--enabling > them to live in the NOW ,which itself is a big meditation. > > but i want to ask the list members,what has been their experience?? > plus there are the allegations about him being a wei-wu-wei copycat-- > somehow i feel quite uneasy about his whole conceptual web. will be > thankful if the list can help me to get to the bottom of this fishy > stuff > > 2. my second frustration is with the religious guys as a > whole.........why cant they speak with one voice....im an indian and > i can really understand how frustrating it cud be for the westerner. > > someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds it...someone rejects > karma,others accept it. > no two so-called realised souls speak the same concepts.even if you > take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM THAT..some totally > different concepts in the end of his life....so??what happened -did > his programming go haywire.. > i mean i am noone to doubt another--but i can only judge by > appearance ..i am not a jnani:-)) > > if this is wot there is to show for 10000+ years of spirituality then > there is something seriously flawed somewhere:-))!!! > > > > no offences meant. > rgds, > devendra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > Welcome Devendra. So, if reading Ramesh didn't help you, forget about > him. Now, suppose 10 people here tell you, he was a great help to > them, how is that going to help you? > Just set aside a time every day for being alert, and completly > attentive > without any goal in mind. If a person sets aside a time.....every day.......for being alert......and completely attentive...........he has a goal " in mind " ........ That sounds like something even an ardent > non-doer can do. Maybe even something Ramesh himself does. > > Pete > > Nisargadatta , " coolasafool " <coolasafool> > wrote: > > Hi, > > im a new joinee. i have been thru some other internet advaita > > lists.im in this spiritual thing since about past 15 years.the > route > > has been > > > > paramhansa yogoda--rk-vivekananda--nsg mhj--blskr....with some > study > > of modern physics,capitalism and western philosophy thrown in. > > since i have joined this list with a specific purpose to enrich my > > understanding of nsg-blskr. without further ado, i send forth my > 1st > > post. > > > > i have some observations/distillations/questions...seeks comments- > > > > 1.balsekar is taken to be Mhj's most authentic interpreter.but to > me > > most of his stuff appears as spiritual truisms-- > > > > " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want knowing fully well > that > > you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual web,great story.But > then-- > > whats the big deal?this is kindergarten stuff...may i kindly ask > what > > has been his realization,what has being his own sadhana, what is > his > > own unique experience--rather than parroting-- " all i say is a > > concept " . > > Can anyone share with me - what has been their most concrete > benefit > > from balsekar?? > > the one benefit i derived from balsekar is that he helped me in de- > > baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of conceptual baggage.but > he > > has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of " DOING " -the joy of > > individual self effort in spiritual practice and has lulled me into > a > > dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as an > > individual entity but when it comes to meditation the mind has > found > > a large number of balsekaric excuses. > > but i am where i was.none the wiser after his merry go round. > > > > maybe he is propounding a very subtle concept which is enabling his > > followers to forget the past and dont care about future--enabling > > them to live in the NOW ,which itself is a big meditation. > > > > but i want to ask the list members,what has been their experience?? > > plus there are the allegations about him being a wei-wu-wei > copycat-- > > somehow i feel quite uneasy about his whole conceptual web. will be > > thankful if the list can help me to get to the bottom of this fishy > > stuff > > > > 2. my second frustration is with the religious guys as a > > whole.........why cant they speak with one voice....im an indian > and > > i can really understand how frustrating it cud be for the westerner. > > > > someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds it...someone rejects > > karma,others accept it. > > no two so-called realised souls speak the same concepts.even if you > > take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM THAT..some totally > > different concepts in the end of his life....so??what happened -did > > his programming go haywire.. > > i mean i am noone to doubt another--but i can only judge by > > appearance ..i am not a jnani:-)) > > > > if this is wot there is to show for 10000+ years of spirituality > then > > there is something seriously flawed somewhere:-))!!! > > > > > > > > no offences meant. > > rgds, > > devendra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Hi Devendra, - " coolasafool " <coolasafool <Nisargadatta > Monday, September 20, 2004 1:04 AM Balsekar-Nisargadatta-et.al. > Hi, > im a new joinee. i have been thru some other internet advaita > lists.im in this spiritual thing since about past 15 years.the route > has been > > paramhansa yogoda--rk-vivekananda--nsg mhj--blskr....with some study > of modern physics,capitalism and western philosophy thrown in. > since i have joined this list with a specific purpose to enrich my > understanding of nsg-blskr. without further ado, i send forth my 1st > post. > > i have some observations/distillations/questions...seeks comments- > > 1.balsekar is taken to be Mhj's most authentic interpreter.but to me > most of his stuff appears as spiritual truisms-- > > " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want knowing fully well that > you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual web,great story.But then-- > whats the big deal?this is kindergarten stuff...may i kindly ask what > has been his realization,what has being his own sadhana, what is his > own unique experience--rather than parroting-- " all i say is a > concept " . > Can anyone share with me - what has been their most concrete benefit > from balsekar?? > the one benefit i derived from balsekar is that he helped me in de- > baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of conceptual baggage.but he > has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of " DOING " -the joy of > individual self effort in spiritual practice and has lulled me into a > dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as an > individual entity but when it comes to meditation the mind has found > a large number of balsekaric excuses. > but i am where i was.none the wiser after his merry go round. And how do you know, that is not the wisest place to be in?:-) Forget Ramesh. If some bromide through him, sat nicely on you, take it in gratitude. If others did not appeal to you, thrown them aside. The key (which has no lock to enter) is to see whether there is a an entity,.......... the " me-Devendra " , which believes it is I which is " eating " , drinking " , " working " . Or it is I which " was meditating-so beautifully-earlier-on " , is " now-trying to meditate-and-thanks to-that-bloody-Ramesh-has-lost-that-technique " .:-) Whether there is any independent existential reality to that entity, to that sense of " me-Devendra " . If not, who would be bothered whether meditation (which was earlier happening so smoothly), is now not happening? Who would be an " un-acceptor " (or " acceptor " ) of the moment, as it is? <SNIP> > > 2. my second frustration is with the religious guys as a > whole.........why cant they speak with one voice....im an indian and > i can really understand how frustrating it cud be for the westerner. > > someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds it...someone rejects > karma,others accept it. > no two so-called realised souls speak the same concepts.even if you > take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM THAT..some totally > different concepts in the end of his life....so??what happened -did > his programming go haywire.. > i mean i am noone to doubt another--but i can only judge by > appearance ..i am not a jnani:-)) Interesting. What as per you is a jnani, such that you can conclude, that you are not one? I mean, without a standard, how would you know, you are not making the cut? On, conflicting concepts by sages, both by the same dude at different points of time,......... as well as inter-alia sages,..........you see Devendra, they get easily bored. Espoused concepts are useful for plucking out another deeply embedded concept. And then both are kept aside. Depending on what is the nature of the embedded entitification in the seeker in front, ..........an appropriate concept may arise in that milieu, in that moment. Applicable for that milieu, that moment. The conflict arises, when the conceptualizings are etched into a gospel,......... and that gospel is sought to be applied as a ready-recknower. During one day, when Buddha was minding his own business, he was approached by a seeker who asked him " Is there God " ? Buddha replied " No " . After few hours, another seeker, wandered in and asked Buddha the same question.. " Is there God? " Buddha, answered " Yes " . At dusk, another seeker, approached Buddha and just stood in silence. After some time, tears ran down from the seekers eyes. He touched Buddha's feet and left in silence. Ananda, observing the antics of the whole day, was pissed off in confusion. > > if this is wot there is to show for 10000+ years of spirituality then > there is something seriously flawed somewhere:-))!!! Yes. Spirituality sucks. It cannot even pick a winner in last night's lottery show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Txs for the replies and for letting me in. the Conceptual merry-go-round is always there for all of us... " who is actually asking this " " who is writing this email " " who wants to be liberated " ? to each his own. my post was not direct enough. actually my question was oriented towards practicality- " Can anyone share with me - what has been their most concrete benefit from the teachings of balsekar?? " like i said this B-M-O has derived de-baggage-ification from balsekar.can i compare notes with others pls. rgds, devendra _______________________________ Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Hi Devendra! What a beautiful name! Can anyone share with me - what has been their most concrete benefit from balsekar?? Kip: Actually to forget about him and his concepts, too....so simple and easy, that it seems ridiculous. the one benefit i derived from balsekar is that he helped me in de- baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of conceptual baggage.but he has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of " DOING " -the joy of individual self effort in spiritual practice and has lulled me into a dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as an individual entity but when it comes to meditation the mind has found a large number of balsekaric excuses. Kip: Meditate, whenever you like. What does it matter what others say, including Mr. Balsekar. but i am where i was.none the wiser after his merry go round. Kip: You seek thus after wisdom. What kind of wisdom? It is wisdom, in my eyes, to state that you are, where you were for 15 years ago. That's wisdom! That's it. There is nothing more. Throw away all your expectations and live! No matter what all these guys with dental prosthesis may say! maybe he is propounding a very subtle concept which is enabling his followers to forget the past and dont care about future--enabling them to live in the NOW ,which itself is a big meditation. Kip: We have here on the list an expert regarding " Nows " . To live in the " now " is surely a nice concept. But, sometimes, there is a lot of work to do concerning the past. To make peace with one's past is, in my opinion, enough. but i want to ask the list members,what has been their experience?? plus there are the allegations about him being a wei-wu-wei copycat-- somehow i feel quite uneasy about his whole conceptual web. will be thankful if the list can help me to get to the bottom of this fishy stuff Kip: I like some of the concepts they wrote or said. Jesus, Buddha, Ramana, Niz, Balsekar....somehow they do tell the same things. Take what's good for you, leave the concepts, which, at the moment don't seem to be a benefit. I'm always surprised how concepts do remind me. 2. my second frustration is with the religious guys as a whole.........why cant they speak with one voice....im an indian and i can really understand how frustrating it cud be for the westerner. Kip: We can't speak with one voice because they're many mouths. Sing in a choir, if you like. someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds it...someone rejects karma,others accept it. Kip: Isn't it ridiculous? Why not laugh about it? no two so-called realised souls speak the same concepts.even if you take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM THAT..some totally different concepts in the end of his life....so??what happened -did his programming go haywire..i mean i am noone to doubt another--but i can only judge by appearance ..i am not a jnani:-)) Kip: That's not your problem! if this is wot there is to show for 10000+ years of spirituality then there is something seriously flawed somewhere:-))!!! Kip: Yes, the question is only…..where? Kip Almazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Hi Pete! This is a very smart answer. I like that One. I think Toombaru doesn't understand you Pete? Just kidding Toombaru!! lol Alberto, Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > Welcome Devendra. So, if reading Ramesh didn't help you, forget about > him. Now, suppose 10 people here tell you, he was a great help to > them, how is that going to help you? > Just set aside a time every day for being alert, and completly > attentive > without any goal in mind. That sounds like something even an ardent > non-doer can do. Maybe even something Ramesh himself does. > > Pete > > Nisargadatta , " coolasafool " <coolasafool> > wrote: > > Hi, > > im a new joinee. i have been thru some other internet advaita > > lists.im in this spiritual thing since about past 15 years.the > route > > has been > > > > paramhansa yogoda--rk-vivekananda--nsg mhj--blskr....with some > study > > of modern physics,capitalism and western philosophy thrown in. > > since i have joined this list with a specific purpose to enrich my > > understanding of nsg-blskr. without further ado, i send forth my > 1st > > post. > > > > i have some observations/distillations/questions...seeks comments- > > > > 1.balsekar is taken to be Mhj's most authentic interpreter.but to > me > > most of his stuff appears as spiritual truisms-- > > > > " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want knowing fully well > that > > you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual web,great story.But > then-- > > whats the big deal?this is kindergarten stuff...may i kindly ask > what > > has been his realization,what has being his own sadhana, what is > his > > own unique experience--rather than parroting-- " all i say is a > > concept " . > > Can anyone share with me - what has been their most concrete > benefit > > from balsekar?? > > the one benefit i derived from balsekar is that he helped me in de- > > baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of conceptual baggage.but > he > > has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of " DOING " -the joy of > > individual self effort in spiritual practice and has lulled me into > a > > dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as an > > individual entity but when it comes to meditation the mind has > found > > a large number of balsekaric excuses. > > but i am where i was.none the wiser after his merry go round. > > > > maybe he is propounding a very subtle concept which is enabling his > > followers to forget the past and dont care about future-- enabling > > them to live in the NOW ,which itself is a big meditation. > > > > but i want to ask the list members,what has been their experience?? > > plus there are the allegations about him being a wei-wu-wei > copycat-- > > somehow i feel quite uneasy about his whole conceptual web. will be > > thankful if the list can help me to get to the bottom of this fishy > > stuff > > > > 2. my second frustration is with the religious guys as a > > whole.........why cant they speak with one voice....im an indian > and > > i can really understand how frustrating it cud be for the westerner. > > > > someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds it...someone rejects > > karma,others accept it. > > no two so-called realised souls speak the same concepts.even if you > > take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM THAT..some totally > > different concepts in the end of his life....so??what happened - did > > his programming go haywire.. > > i mean i am noone to doubt another--but i can only judge by > > appearance ..i am not a jnani:-)) > > > > if this is wot there is to show for 10000+ years of spirituality > then > > there is something seriously flawed somewhere:-))!!! > > > > > > > > no offences meant. > > rgds, > > devendra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " coolasafool " <coolasafool> wrote: > Hi, > im a new joinee. i have been thru some other internet advaita > lists.im in this spiritual thing since about past 15 years.the route > has been > > paramhansa yogoda--rk-vivekananda--nsg mhj--blskr....with some study > of modern physics,capitalism and western philosophy thrown in. > since i have joined this list with a specific purpose to enrich my > understanding of nsg-blskr. without further ado, i send forth my 1st > post. > > i have some observations/distillations/questions...seeks comments- > > 1.balsekar is taken to be Mhj's most authentic interpreter.but to me > most of his stuff appears as spiritual truisms-- > > " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want knowing fully well that > you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual web,great story.But then-- > whats the big deal?this is kindergarten stuff...may i kindly ask what > has been his realization,what has being his own sadhana, what is his > own unique experience--rather than parroting-- " all i say is a > concept " . > Can anyone share with me - what has been their most concrete benefit > from balsekar?? > the one benefit i derived from balsekar is that he helped me in de- > baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of conceptual baggage.but he > has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of " DOING " -the joy of > individual self effort in spiritual practice and has lulled me into a > dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as an > individual entity but when it comes to meditation the mind has found > a large number of balsekaric excuses. > but i am where i was.none the wiser after his merry go round. > > maybe he is propounding a very subtle concept which is enabling his > followers to forget the past and dont care about future--enabling > them to live in the NOW ,which itself is a big meditation. > > but i want to ask the list members,what has been their experience?? > plus there are the allegations about him being a wei-wu-wei copycat-- > somehow i feel quite uneasy about his whole conceptual web. will be > thankful if the list can help me to get to the bottom of this fishy > stuff > > 2. my second frustration is with the religious guys as a > whole.........why cant they speak with one voice....im an indian and > i can really understand how frustrating it cud be for the westerner. > > someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds it...someone rejects > karma,others accept it. > no two so-called realised souls speak the same concepts.even if you > take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM THAT..some totally > different concepts in the end of his life....so??what happened -did > his programming go haywire.. > i mean i am noone to doubt another--but i can only judge by > appearance ..i am not a jnani:-)) > > if this is wot there is to show for 10000+ years of spirituality then > there is something seriously flawed somewhere:-))!!! > > > > no offences meant. > rgds, > devendra " All is God's will " , perhaps it is, but looking at the world today it seems like God is a kind of butter-finger, or a nasty form of Doer, or both. Ramesh says that we cannot possible understand why we have been created or how the universe unfolds, because our human intellect is so narrow, while God is for all eternity. But if all there is is God, then God/We would probably also be able to understand a lot more than we do today. There is something inconsistent in all the teachings from the sages and spiritual teachers that just doesn't compute. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Hi, I'm new on here to. Just logged on to find your message and respond. I went through something similar to this last year re making sense of the many Babaji's and Sai Baba issues. It can boggle the mind if one let's it. Especially being a westerner with a different cultural background. I was faced with humanities many responses when I asked a similar question as you did, on a different board. Everyone has their own ideas about such things. In any case, I was sent an email from an India address which had a virus in it & then was faced with the *reality* of people's humanity. Here's a tip for you to take or leave, but I offer it in most humility. Just let it all go and laugh. Yes smile. Everyone's having their own experiences for their own reasons... Balsekar, Nisargadatta, the many Babaji's - et al. They are only experiences. When we take away everything else, experience is the only basis for it all. So, don't take it all so seriously ~ and just experience...then you'll hear that thundering laughter in your soul, the laughter that started the whole ball rolling in the first place. Non-duality can be a good thing...without it there would be little range of experience, and that can be a good thing. Just my humble ramblings. Warm wishes, Donny ----------------------- Nisargadatta , " coolasafool " <coolasafool> wrote: > Hi, > im a new joinee. i have been thru some other internet advaita > lists.im in this spiritual thing since about past 15 years.the route > has been > > paramhansa yogoda--rk-vivekananda--nsg mhj--blskr....with some study > of modern physics,capitalism and western philosophy thrown in. > since i have joined this list with a specific purpose to enrich my > understanding of nsg-blskr. without further ado, i send forth my 1st > post. > > i have some observations/distillations/questions...seeks comments- > > 1.balsekar is taken to be Mhj's most authentic interpreter.but to me > most of his stuff appears as spiritual truisms-- > > " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want knowing fully well that > you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual web,great story.But then-- > whats the big deal?this is kindergarten stuff...may i kindly ask what > has been his realization,what has being his own sadhana, what is his > own unique experience--rather than parroting-- " all i say is a > concept " . > Can anyone share with me - what has been their most concrete benefit > from balsekar?? > the one benefit i derived from balsekar is that he helped me in de- > baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of conceptual baggage.but he > has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of " DOING " -the joy of > individual self effort in spiritual practice and has lulled me into a > dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as an > individual entity but when it comes to meditation the mind has found > a large number of balsekaric excuses. > but i am where i was.none the wiser after his merry go round. > > maybe he is propounding a very subtle concept which is enabling his > followers to forget the past and dont care about future--enabling > them to live in the NOW ,which itself is a big meditation. > > but i want to ask the list members,what has been their experience?? > plus there are the allegations about him being a wei-wu-wei copycat-- > somehow i feel quite uneasy about his whole conceptual web. will be > thankful if the list can help me to get to the bottom of this fishy > stuff > > 2. my second frustration is with the religious guys as a > whole.........why cant they speak with one voice....im an indian and > i can really understand how frustrating it cud be for the westerner. > > someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds it...someone rejects > karma,others accept it. > no two so-called realised souls speak the same concepts.even if you > take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM THAT..some totally > different concepts in the end of his life....so??what happened - did > his programming go haywire.. > i mean i am noone to doubt another--but i can only judge by > appearance ..i am not a jnani:-)) > > if this is wot there is to show for 10000+ years of spirituality then > there is something seriously flawed somewhere:-))!!! > > > > no offences meant. > rgds, > devendra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " coolasafool " <coolasafool> wrote: > Hi, > im a new joinee. i have been thru some other internet advaita > lists.im in this spiritual thing since about past 15 years.the route > has been > > .... without further ado, i send forth my 1st > post. > > i have some observations/distillations/questions...seeks comments- > > 1.balsekar is taken to be Mhj's most authentic interpreter.but to me > most of his stuff appears as spiritual truisms-- > > " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want knowing fully well that > you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual web,great story.But then-- > whats the big deal?this is kindergarten stuff...may i kindly ask what > has been his realization,what has being his own sadhana, what is his > own unique experience--rather than parroting-- " all i say is a > concept " . > Can anyone share with me - what has been their most concrete benefit > from balsekar?? > the one benefit i derived from is that he helped me in de- > baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of conceptual baggage.but he > has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of " DOING " -the joy of > individual self effort in spiritual practice and has lulled me into a > dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as an > individual entity but when it comes to meditation the mind has found > a large number of balsekaric excuses. > but i am where i was.none the wiser after his merry go round. > > maybe he is propounding a very subtle concept which is enabling his > followers to forget the past and dont care about future--enabling > them to live in the NOW ,which itself is a big meditation. > > but i want to ask the list members,what has been their experience?? > plus there are the allegations about him being a wei-wu-wei copycat-- > somehow i feel quite uneasy about his whole conceptual web. will be > thankful if the list can help me to get to the bottom of this fishy > stuff > > 2. my second frustration is with the religious guys as a > whole.........why cant they speak with one voice....im an indian and > i can really understand how frustrating it cud be for the westerner. > > someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds it...someone rejects > karma,others accept it. > no two so-called realised souls speak the same concepts.even if you > take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM THAT..some totally > different concepts in the end of his life....so??what happened - did > his programming go haywire.. > i mean i am noone to doubt another--but i can only judge by > appearance ..> if this is wot there is to show for 10000+ years of spirituality then > there is something seriously flawed somewhere:-))!!! > > > > no offences meant. > rgds, > devendra Hi devendra, welcome to the group! I 'll start with this. Do you know that devendra in French if you put two I makes, deviendra which means will become!!! From what I red you are a serious seeker. My answer to you, if you accept it, will be an answer to an adult seeker not a child. Ok! Please don't get offended, please. My intention is to make you understant something. Try to understand. What the hell are you doing man? You've lost 15 years of your life to come back to where you started!!! Holy cow!! oups the cows are holy now! Well in India! Man oh man, You are in deep ??%%$#... problems. Holy macaroni! Well in my world macaronis are holy!! lol paramhansa yogoda--rk-vivekananda--nsg mhj--blskr could not " heal " you!(Tears.) You must be truly " sick " ! You are out of the way! (even if you truly never leave the way). You are sooooo lost my friend. I think my dog is more awakened than you are! Who do you thinks you are man! a holy man, should I bow before your knees, for you to bless me. Should I call you my lord! Lord of Lords. Or even more God of Gods! You'd like that hein, am I right? lol bla bla bla, and bla again. what a waist of time, no! You said: When I meditate it is not a cool or good as before! ( baby). You said: with some study > of modern physics,capitalism and western philosophy thrown in. > since i have joined this list with a specific purpose to enrich my > understanding of nsg-blskr. etc. You don't think you are enough mix-up. You are dead drunk and you want more??? What a shame! What do you want? Truly what do you want? You want to be the next bouddha, the next spiritual hero of our time. You want to be better than balsekar. Better than Maharshi, better that wei wu wei. You want to be better than God my friend. Is that what you want? Or you simply want to know the truth? Smoothly, tenderly, with opened eyes smiling to life, God which revels trough his grace the truth about yourself, and life etc. Don't be so arrogant. The bible says that God don't like arrogant people and stays far from him! You are death drunk my friend. Your path is a dead path. You'll arrive no where like that! You dare challenge people from a furum to another forum, You are cheating your wife. and your wife is God. You tought you'll knew more than God. Now God has turn his face from you and you are like a boat without a destination. You said: i am not a jnani:-)) > For sure you are not a jnani. You are fighting against God. You are fighting against yourself( Jnani ). Only God can take you out from where you are! Isn't the one you are looking for? :0) You are triying to cheat you wife with a prostitute, The world is the prostitute, thougts are the prostitute. The spiritual path is the prostitute. You cling to every single aspect of the way. Have you ever tought about Nirvana. Nirvana means the extention of the self. and you want more and more and more self! Self knowledge, Self estime, me I I I. ok ok ! enough I hit you ego enough. I've been there, done that. You had all the info from the masters for you to become a jnani. You " do not need more info " you need to rest. a long nap. It can take days or it can take years. It is up to you. But you need to ask yourself the true questions. What do I want? If you need money, well being a jnani won't help you much! Ask your self the true questions and as my body Pete said true revelation will come. Be sure of that! :0) With all my heart, with best of intentions Alberto, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 alberto, and who is the person who tries to hit the ego of the egoist? super-egoist...:-)!! no getting away from do-ing...it seems.:-))!! --- ilikezen2004 <ilikezen2004 wrote: > Nisargadatta , " coolasafool " > <coolasafool> wrote: > > Hi, > > im a new joinee. i have been thru some other > internet advaita > > lists.im in this spiritual thing since about past > 15 years.the > route > > has been > > > > .... without further ado, i send forth my 1st > > post. > > > > i have some > observations/distillations/questions...seeks > comments- > > > > 1.balsekar is taken to be Mhj's most authentic > interpreter.but to > me > > most of his stuff appears as spiritual truisms-- > > > > " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want > knowing fully well > that > > you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual > web,great story.But > then-- > > whats the big deal?this is kindergarten > stuff...may i kindly ask > what > > has been his realization,what has being his own > sadhana, what is > his > > own unique experience--rather than parroting-- " all > i say is a > > concept " . > > Can anyone share with me - what has been their > most concrete > benefit > > from balsekar?? > > the one benefit i derived from is that he helped > me in de- > > baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of > conceptual baggage.but > he > > has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of > " DOING " -the joy of > > individual self effort in spiritual practice and > has lulled me > into a > > dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i > EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as > an > > individual entity but when it comes to meditation > the mind has > found > > a large number of balsekaric excuses. > > but i am where i was.none the wiser after his > merry go round. > > > > maybe he is propounding a very subtle concept > which is enabling > his > > followers to forget the past and dont care about > future--enabling > > them to live in the NOW ,which itself is a big > meditation. > > > > but i want to ask the list members,what has been > their experience?? > > plus there are the allegations about him being a > wei-wu-wei > copycat-- > > somehow i feel quite uneasy about his whole > conceptual web. will > be > > thankful if the list can help me to get to the > bottom of this > fishy > > stuff > > > > 2. my second frustration is with the religious > guys as a > > whole.........why cant they speak with one > voice....im an indian > and > > i can really understand how frustrating it cud be > for the > westerner. > > > > someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds > it...someone rejects > > karma,others accept it. > > no two so-called realised souls speak the same > concepts.even if > you > > take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM > THAT..some totally > > different concepts in the end of his > life....so??what happened - > did > > his programming go haywire.. > > i mean i am noone to doubt another--but i can only > judge by > > appearance ..> if this is wot there is to show for > 10000+ years of > spirituality then > > there is something seriously flawed > somewhere:-))!!! > > > > > > > > no offences meant. > > rgds, > > devendra > > Hi devendra, welcome to the group! > > I 'll start with this. Do you know that devendra in > French if you > put two I makes, deviendra which means will > become!!! > From what I red you are a serious seeker. My answer > to you, if you > accept it, will be an answer to an adult seeker not > a child. Ok! > > Please don't get offended, please. My intention is > to make you > understant something. Try to understand. > > What the hell are you doing man? You've lost 15 > years of your life > to come back to where you started!!! Holy cow!! oups > the cows are > holy now! Well in India! > Man oh man, You are in deep ??%%$#... problems. Holy > macaroni! Well > in my world macaronis are holy!! lol > paramhansa yogoda--rk-vivekananda--nsg mhj--blskr > could not " heal " > you!(Tears.) You must be truly " sick " ! You are out > of the way! (even > if you truly never leave the way). You are sooooo > lost my friend. I > think my dog is more awakened than you are! > > Who do you thinks you are man! a holy man, should I > bow before your > knees, for you to bless me. Should I call you my > lord! Lord of > Lords. Or even more God of Gods! You'd like that > hein, am I right? > lol > > bla bla bla, and bla again. what a waist of time, > no! You said: When > I meditate it is not a cool or good as before! ( > baby). > > You said: > with some study > > of modern physics,capitalism and western > philosophy thrown in. > > since i have joined this list with a specific > purpose to enrich my > > understanding of nsg-blskr. etc. > > You don't think you are enough mix-up. You are dead > drunk and you > want more??? What a shame! What do you want? > Truly what do you want? You want to be the next > bouddha, the next > spiritual hero of our time. You want to be better > than balsekar. > Better than Maharshi, better that wei wu wei. You > want to be better > than God my friend. Is that what you want? > > Or you simply want to know the truth? Smoothly, > tenderly, with > opened eyes smiling to life, God which revels trough > his grace the > truth about yourself, and life etc. > Don't be so arrogant. The bible says that God don't > like arrogant > people and stays far from him! > > You are death drunk my friend. Your path is a dead > path. You'll > arrive no where like that! You dare challenge people > from a furum to > another forum, You are cheating your wife. and your > wife is God. You > tought you'll knew more than God. Now God has turn > his face from you > and you are like a boat without a destination. > > You said: i am not a jnani:-)) > > > === message truncated === New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 precisely,AL.. thats what my queries are driving at WHY DOESNT IT ADD UP??? and " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want knowing fully well that you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual web,great story.But then-- whats the big deal? " whats so new & novel about this truism?that a person is being hailed as the most original advaita master....i seriously want to know whether my intellect has failed to notice something that others have. ------------------- --- anders_lindman <anders_lindman wrote: > Nisargadatta , " coolasafool " > <coolasafool> > wrote: > > Hi, > > im a new joinee. i have been thru some other > internet advaita > > lists.im in this spiritual thing since about past > 15 years.the > route > > has been > > > > paramhansa yogoda--rk-vivekananda--nsg > mhj--blskr....with some > study > > of modern physics,capitalism and western > philosophy thrown in. > > since i have joined this list with a specific > purpose to enrich my > > understanding of nsg-blskr. without further ado, i > send forth my > 1st > > post. > > > > i have some > observations/distillations/questions...seeks > comments- > > > > 1.balsekar is taken to be Mhj's most authentic > interpreter.but to > me > > most of his stuff appears as spiritual truisms-- > > > > " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want > knowing fully well > that > > you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual > web,great story.But > then-- > > whats the big deal?this is kindergarten > stuff...may i kindly ask > what > > has been his realization,what has being his own > sadhana, what is > his > > own unique experience--rather than parroting-- " all > i say is a > > concept " . > > Can anyone share with me - what has been their > most concrete > benefit > > from balsekar?? > > the one benefit i derived from balsekar is that he > helped me in de- > > baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of > conceptual baggage.but > he > > has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of > " DOING " -the joy of > > individual self effort in spiritual practice and > has lulled me into > a > > dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i > EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as an > > individual entity but when it comes to meditation > the mind has > found > > a large number of balsekaric excuses. > > but i am where i was.none the wiser after his > merry go round. > > > > maybe he is propounding a very subtle concept > which is enabling his > > followers to forget the past and dont care about > future--enabling > > them to live in the NOW ,which itself is a big > meditation. > > > > but i want to ask the list members,what has been > their experience?? > > plus there are the allegations about him being a > wei-wu-wei > copycat-- > > somehow i feel quite uneasy about his whole > conceptual web. will be > > thankful if the list can help me to get to the > bottom of this fishy > > stuff > > > > 2. my second frustration is with the religious > guys as a > > whole.........why cant they speak with one > voice....im an indian > and > > i can really understand how frustrating it cud be > for the westerner. > > > > someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds > it...someone rejects > > karma,others accept it. > > no two so-called realised souls speak the same > concepts.even if you > > take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM > THAT..some totally > > different concepts in the end of his > life....so??what happened -did > > his programming go haywire.. > > i mean i am noone to doubt another--but i can only > judge by > > appearance ..i am not a jnani:-)) > > > > if this is wot there is to show for 10000+ years > of spirituality > then > > there is something seriously flawed > somewhere:-))!!! > > > > > > > > no offences meant. > > rgds, > > devendra > > > " All is God's will " , perhaps it is, but looking at > the world today it > seems like God is a kind of butter-finger, or a > nasty form of Doer, > or both. Ramesh says that we cannot possible > understand why we have > been created or how the universe unfolds, because > our human intellect > is so narrow, while God is for all eternity. But if > all there is is > God, then God/We would probably also be able to > understand a lot more > than we do today. There is something inconsistent in > all the > teachings from the sages and spiritual teachers that > just doesn't > compute. > > /AL > > ===== Devendra Vyas residence>>00 91 251 2606074 Cell>> 00 91 22 32597136 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 20, 2004 Report Share Posted September 20, 2004 1.balsekar is taken to be Mhj's most authentic interpreter.but to me most of his stuff appears as spiritual truisms-- >>>>>>>>>> Balsekar is no Nisargadatta. For someone who wants to see the guy in person, Balsekar is more accessible than Nisargadatta. But for reading, there is no comparison. Nisargadatta taught, basically, two stages: Realize the " I Am " . Go beyond that. What Balsekar talks about seems pretty much limited to the first, though haven't read a lot of him so perhaps someone could enlighten me. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Nisargadatta , Devendra Vyas <coolasafool> wrote: > alberto, > > and who is the person who tries to hit the ego of the > egoist? > > super-egoist...:-)!! > > no getting away from do-ing...it seems.:-))!! > > Nooo! The person who tries to hit the ego is not super-ego. It's SUPER MAN!!! HA HA HA! I'm glad your undestood my critics, I knew you were not a child but and spiritual adult. That is why I hit hard!! Sorry! :0) I knew you'd understand! I think I undestand your motivation. You want to continue to add more and more to your knowledge of the spiritual path is that it? Learn more about the masters. That is an honorable thing to do. I aggree. And yet you say you are not a jnani? I'm soo mix-up now! What do you really want. Become a jnani or to learn more about the masters contradictions of the way? If you are a jnani, well why do you want to learn more from them? Are you a true Jnani saying he is not? Etc. If your one and only reason is as you said you want to compare your notes with others! Well my friend, I can't be of much help! I've thrown away all my notes about all every possible moments or understanding of the way. Everything is gone. I erase my computer. I'm like a dumb, like a child, not much to be proud of, and I haven't won any medal!!!at least if I had won a medal! " I " would have got something to be proud of!! ha ha ha! Tenderly, Alberto, > > --- ilikezen2004 <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " coolasafool " > > <coolasafool> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > im a new joinee. i have been thru some other > > internet advaita > > > lists.im in this spiritual thing since about past > > 15 years.the > > route > > > has been > > > > > > .... without further ado, i send forth my 1st > > > post. > > > > > > i have some > > observations/distillations/questions...seeks > > comments- > > > > > > 1.balsekar is taken to be Mhj's most authentic > > interpreter.but to > > me > > > most of his stuff appears as spiritual truisms-- > > > > > > " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want > > knowing fully well > > that > > > you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual > > web,great story.But > > then-- > > > whats the big deal?this is kindergarten > > stuff...may i kindly ask > > what > > > has been his realization,what has being his own > > sadhana, what is > > his > > > own unique experience--rather than parroting-- " all > > i say is a > > > concept " . > > > Can anyone share with me - what has been their > > most concrete > > benefit > > > from balsekar?? > > > the one benefit i derived from is that he helped > > me in de- > > > baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of > > conceptual baggage.but > > he > > > has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of > > " DOING " -the joy of > > > individual self effort in spiritual practice and > > has lulled me > > into a > > > dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i > > EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as > > an > > > individual entity but when it comes to meditation > > the mind has > > found > > > a large number of balsekaric excuses. > > > but i am where i was.none the wiser after his > > merry go round. > > > > > > maybe he is propounding a very subtle concept > > which is enabling > > his > > > followers to forget the past and dont care about > > future--enabling > > > them to live in the NOW ,which itself is a big > > meditation. > > > > > > but i want to ask the list members,what has been > > their experience?? > > > plus there are the allegations about him being a > > wei-wu-wei > > copycat-- > > > somehow i feel quite uneasy about his whole > > conceptual web. will > > be > > > thankful if the list can help me to get to the > > bottom of this > > fishy > > > stuff > > > > > > 2. my second frustration is with the religious > > guys as a > > > whole.........why cant they speak with one > > voice....im an indian > > and > > > i can really understand how frustrating it cud be > > for the > > westerner. > > > > > > someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds > > it...someone rejects > > > karma,others accept it. > > > no two so-called realised souls speak the same > > concepts.even if > > you > > > take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM > > THAT..some totally > > > different concepts in the end of his > > life....so??what happened - > > did > > > his programming go haywire.. > > > i mean i am noone to doubt another--but i can only > > judge by > > > appearance ..> if this is wot there is to show for > > 10000+ years of > > spirituality then > > > there is something seriously flawed > > somewhere:-))!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > no offences meant. > > > rgds, > > > devendra > > > > Hi devendra, welcome to the group! > > > > I 'll start with this. Do you know that devendra in > > French if you > > put two I makes, deviendra which means will > > become!!! > > From what I red you are a serious seeker. My answer > > to you, if you > > accept it, will be an answer to an adult seeker not > > a child. Ok! > > > > Please don't get offended, please. My intention is > > to make you > > understant something. Try to understand. > > > > What the hell are you doing man? You've lost 15 > > years of your life > > to come back to where you started!!! Holy cow!! oups > > the cows are > > holy now! Well in India! > > Man oh man, You are in deep ??%%$#... problems. Holy > > macaroni! Well > > in my world macaronis are holy!! lol > > paramhansa yogoda--rk-vivekananda--nsg mhj--blskr > > could not " heal " > > you!(Tears.) You must be truly " sick " ! You are out > > of the way! (even > > if you truly never leave the way). You are sooooo > > lost my friend. I > > think my dog is more awakened than you are! > > > > Who do you thinks you are man! a holy man, should I > > bow before your > > knees, for you to bless me. Should I call you my > > lord! Lord of > > Lords. Or even more God of Gods! You'd like that > > hein, am I right? > > lol > > > > bla bla bla, and bla again. what a waist of time, > > no! You said: When > > I meditate it is not a cool or good as before! ( > > baby). > > > > You said: > > with some study > > > of modern physics,capitalism and western > > philosophy thrown in. > > > since i have joined this list with a specific > > purpose to enrich my > > > understanding of nsg-blskr. etc. > > > > You don't think you are enough mix-up. You are dead > > drunk and you > > want more??? What a shame! What do you want? > > Truly what do you want? You want to be the next > > bouddha, the next > > spiritual hero of our time. You want to be better > > than balsekar. > > Better than Maharshi, better that wei wu wei. You > > want to be better > > than God my friend. Is that what you want? > > > > Or you simply want to know the truth? Smoothly, > > tenderly, with > > opened eyes smiling to life, God which revels trough > > his grace the > > truth about yourself, and life etc. > > Don't be so arrogant. The bible says that God don't > > like arrogant > > people and stays far from him! > > > > You are death drunk my friend. Your path is a dead > > path. You'll > > arrive no where like that! You dare challenge people > > from a furum to > > another forum, You are cheating your wife. and your > > wife is God. You > > tought you'll knew more than God. Now God has turn > > his face from you > > and you are like a boat without a destination. > > > > You said: i am not a jnani:-)) > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > > > > > New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Nisargadatta , " goldenrainbowrider " <laughterx8@h...> wrote: > Hi, > I'm new on here to. Just logged on to find your message and respond. > I went through something similar to this last year re making sense > of the many Babaji's and Sai Baba issues. It can boggle the mind > if one let's it. Especially being a westerner with a different > cultural background. I was faced with humanities many responses > when I asked a similar question as you did, on a different board. > Everyone has their own ideas about such things. In any case, I was > sent an email from an India address which had a virus in it & then > was faced with the *reality* of people's humanity. > > Here's a tip for you to take or leave, but I offer it in most > humility. > > Just let it all go and laugh. Yes smile. Everyone's having their own > experiences for their own reasons... Balsekar, Nisargadatta, the > many Babaji's - et al. > > They are only experiences. When we take away everything else, > experience is the only basis for it all. > > So, don't take it all so seriously ~ and just experience...then > you'll hear that thundering laughter in your soul, the laughter that > started the whole ball rolling in the first place. Non-duality can > be a good thing...without it there would be little range of > experience, and that can be a good thing. > > Just my humble ramblings. > > Warm wishes, > Donny > > ----------------------- > > Nisargadatta , " coolasafool " > <coolasafool> wrote: > > Hi, > > im a new joinee. i have been thru some other internet advaita > > lists.im in this spiritual thing since about past 15 years.the > route > > has been > > > > paramhansa yogoda--rk-vivekananda--nsg mhj--blskr....with some > study > > of modern physics,capitalism and western philosophy thrown in. > > since i have joined this list with a specific purpose to enrich my > > understanding of nsg-blskr. without further ado, i send forth my > 1st > > post. > > > > i have some observations/distillations/questions...seeks comments- > > > > 1.balsekar is taken to be Mhj's most authentic interpreter.but to > me > > most of his stuff appears as spiritual truisms-- > > > > " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want knowing fully well > that > > you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual web,great story.But > then-- > > whats the big deal?this is kindergarten stuff...may i kindly ask > what > > has been his realization,what has being his own sadhana, what is > his > > own unique experience--rather than parroting-- " all i say is a > > concept " . > > Can anyone share with me - what has been their most concrete > benefit > > from balsekar?? > > the one benefit i derived from balsekar is that he helped me in de- > > baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of conceptual baggage.but > he > > has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of " DOING " -the joy of > > individual self effort in spiritual practice and has lulled me > into a > > dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as > an > > individual entity but when it comes to meditation the mind has > found > > a large number of balsekaric excuses. > > but i am where i was.none the wiser after his merry go round. > > > > maybe he is propounding a very subtle concept which is enabling > his > > followers to forget the past and dont care about future-- enabling > > them to live in the NOW ,which itself is a big meditation. > > > > but i want to ask the list members,what has been their experience?? > > plus there are the allegations about him being a wei-wu-wei > copycat-- > > somehow i feel quite uneasy about his whole conceptual web. will > be > > thankful if the list can help me to get to the bottom of this > fishy > > stuff > > > > 2. my second frustration is with the religious guys as a > > whole.........why cant they speak with one voice....im an indian > and > > i can really understand how frustrating it cud be for the > westerner. > > > > someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds it...someone rejects > > karma,others accept it. > > no two so-called realised souls speak the same concepts.even if > you > > take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM THAT..some totally > > different concepts in the end of his life....so??what happened - > did > > his programming go haywire.. > > i mean i am noone to doubt another--but i can only judge by > > appearance ..i am not a jnani:-)) > > > > if this is wot there is to show for 10000+ years of spirituality > then > > there is something seriously flawed somewhere:-))!!! > > > > > > > > no offences meant. > > rgds, > > devendra Hi Donny, welcome to the group! I'm recently enter the group too. I personaly enjoy sharing with this group and I hope you'll enjoy too! I liked when you said: I was > sent an email from an India address which had a virus in it & then > was faced with the *reality* of people's humanity. Whatever we do, in any state of mind, or level of understanding, or situation we are (trying to escape reality, or the body consciousness) Reality always, always catch us up!! Reality remains Reality. For the frog, for the cows, for the fly, for eagle...... :0)) Alberto, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 Nisargadatta , Devendra Vyas <coolasafool> wrote: > precisely,AL.. > > thats what my queries are driving at > > WHY DOESNT IT ADD UP??? > > and > " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want > knowing fully well that you cant do anything " . Ok, > great conceptual web,great story.But then-- whats the > big deal? " > > whats so new & novel about this truism?that a person > is being hailed as the most original advaita > master....i seriously want to know whether my > intellect has failed to notice something that others > have. > > ------------------- > Balsekar says that the real understanding of " I am not the doer " comes only to a few individuals. But why so few? This understanding is supposed to bring a deep peace to the 'enlightened' individual. But then why wouldn't nature/God make us all have this peace? Even from an scientific standpoint, what hinders evolution to give us all that kind of deep peace? My only conclusion is that evolution will eventually 'enlighten' all of humankind, and that we still are at a rather primitive evolutionary state today. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 21, 2004 Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 My frustration with the so-called masters is - I have had occasion to observe many of the monks first hand......imho they are not yet above their desires..but they have their own justification for it..while they deny this justification to the " ignorant " masses. if the truth be so very simple and if it is one- why does every new master on the block have so many contradictory things to speak. like you said in one of your mails- it's just experience.. so if the TRUTH realization which is the distinguisher between say me and a Nsg-Mhj is just an experience..(like drug induced) ..then how do we know that we are not being lead on a wild-goose chase by the ramblings of a madman. i am plagued by serious doubts -hence the time to compare notes. i mean there are n number of theories which can be used to conceptually argue or 'dis'-argue or every viewpoint but if NOBODY can tell the precise thing..wot good is it? and alberto im not taking-myself-too-serious guy i may appear in my mails.:-) > I'm glad your undestood my critics, I knew you were > not a child but > and spiritual adult. That is why I hit hard!! Sorry! > :0) I knew > you'd understand! > > I think I undestand your motivation. You want to > continue to add > more and more to your knowledge of the spiritual > path is that it? > Learn more about the masters. That is an honorable > thing to do. I > aggree. And yet you say you are not a jnani? > I'm soo mix-up now! What do you really want. Become > a jnani or to > learn more about the masters contradictions of the > way? If you are a > jnani, well why do you want to learn more from them? > Are you a true > Jnani saying he is not? Etc. > > If your one and only reason is as you said you want > to compare your > notes with others! Well my friend, I can't be of > much help! I've > thrown away all my notes about all every possible > moments or > understanding of the way. Everything is gone. I > erase my computer. > I'm like a dumb, like a child, not much to be proud > of, and I > haven't won any medal!!!at least if I had won a > medal! " I " would > have got something to be proud of!! ha ha ha! > > Tenderly, > Alberto, > > > > > --- ilikezen2004 <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , > " coolasafool " > > > <coolasafool> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > im a new joinee. i have been thru some other > > > internet advaita > > > > lists.im in this spiritual thing since about > past > > > 15 years.the > > > route > > > > has been > > > > > > > > .... without further ado, i send forth my 1st > > > > post. > > > > > > > > i have some > > > observations/distillations/questions...seeks > > > comments- > > > > > > > > 1.balsekar is taken to be Mhj's most authentic > > > interpreter.but to > > > me > > > > most of his stuff appears as spiritual > truisms-- > > > > > > > > " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want > > > knowing fully well > > > that > > > > you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual > > > web,great story.But > > > then-- > > > > whats the big deal?this is kindergarten > > > stuff...may i kindly ask > > > what > > > > has been his realization,what has being his > own > > > sadhana, what is > > > his > > > > own unique experience--rather than > parroting-- " all > > > i say is a > > > > concept " . > > > > Can anyone share with me - what has been their > > > most concrete > > > benefit > > > > from balsekar?? > > > > the one benefit i derived from is that he > helped > > > me in de- > > > > baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of > > > conceptual baggage.but > > > he > > > > has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of > > > " DOING " -the joy of > > > > individual self effort in spiritual practice > and > > > has lulled me > > > into a > > > > dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i > > > EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as > > > an > > > > individual entity but when it comes to > meditation > > > the mind has > > > found > > > > a large number of balsekaric excuses. > > > > but i am where i was.none the wiser after his > > > merry go round. > > > > > > > > maybe he is propounding a very subtle concept > > > which is enabling > > > his > > > > followers to forget the past and dont care > about > > > future--enabling > > > > them to live in the NOW ,which itself is a big > > > meditation. > > > > > > > > but i want to ask the list members,what has > been > > > their experience?? > > > > plus there are the allegations about him > being a > > > wei-wu-wei > > > copycat-- > > > > somehow i feel quite uneasy about his whole > > > conceptual web. will > > > be > > > > thankful if the list can help me to get to the > > > bottom of this > > > fishy > > > > stuff > > > > > > > > 2. my second frustration is with the religious > > > guys as a > > > > whole.........why cant they speak with one > > > voice....im an indian > > > and > > > > i can really understand how frustrating it cud > be > > > for the > > > westerner. > > > > > > > > someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds > > > it...someone rejects > > > > karma,others accept it. > > > > no two so-called realised souls speak the same > > > concepts.even if > > > you > > > > take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM > > > THAT..some totally > > > > different concepts in the end of his > > > life....so??what happened - > > > did > > > > his programming go haywire.. > > > > i mean i am noone to doubt another--but i can > only > > > judge by > > > > appearance ..> if this is wot there is to show > for > > > 10000+ years of > > > spirituality then > > > > there is something seriously flawed > > > somewhere:-))!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no offences meant. > > > > rgds, > > > > devendra > > > > > > Hi devendra, welcome to the group! > > > > > > I 'll start with this. Do you know that devendra > in > > > French if you > > > put two I makes, deviendra which means will > > > become!!! > > > From what I red you are a serious seeker. My > answer > > > to you, if you > > > accept it, will be an answer to an adult seeker > not > > > a child. Ok! > === message truncated === Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 anders_lindman [anders_lindman] Tuesday, September 21, 2004 10:27 PM Nisargadatta Re: Balsekar-Nisargadatta-et.al. Nisargadatta , Devendra Vyas <coolasafool> wrote: > precisely,AL.. > > thats what my queries are driving at > > WHY DOESNT IT ADD UP??? > > and > " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want > knowing fully well that you cant do anything " . Ok, > great conceptual web,great story.But then-- whats the > big deal? " > > whats so new & novel about this truism?that a person > is being hailed as the most original advaita > master....i seriously want to know whether my > intellect has failed to notice something that others > have. > > ------------------- > Balsekar says that the real understanding of " I am not the doer " comes only to a few individuals. But why so few? This understanding is supposed to bring a deep peace to the 'enlightened' individual. But then why wouldn't nature/God make us all have this peace? Even from an scientific standpoint, what hinders evolution to give us all that kind of deep peace? My only conclusion is that evolution will eventually 'enlighten' all of humankind, and that we still are at a rather primitive evolutionary state today. There is no world There is no time There is no evolution. When there is no individual... There r no few -- individual There r no more-- individual When there is no individual... /AL ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 22, 2004 Report Share Posted September 22, 2004 Nisargadatta , Devendra Vyas <coolasafool> wrote: > My frustration with the so-called masters is - > > I have had occasion to observe many of the monks first > hand......imho they are not yet above their > desires..but they have their own justification for > it..while they deny this justification to the > " ignorant " masses. > > if the truth be so very simple and if it is one- why > does every new master on the block have so many > contradictory things to speak. > > like you said in one of your mails- it's just > experience.. > so if the TRUTH realization which is the distinguisher > between say me and a Nsg-Mhj is just an > experience..(like drug induced) ..then how do we know > that we are not being lead on a wild-goose chase by > the ramblings of a madman. > > -hence the time to > compare notes. > i mean there are n number of theories which can be > used to conceptually argue or 'dis'-argue or every > viewpoint but if NOBODY can tell the precise > thing..wot good is it? > > and alberto im not taking-myself-too-serious guy i may > appear in my mails.:-) > > > > > > I'm glad your undestood my critics, I knew you were > > not a child but > > and spiritual adult. That is why I hit hard!! Sorry! > > :0) I knew > > you'd understand! > > > > I think I undestand your motivation. You want to > > continue to add > > more and more to your knowledge of the spiritual > > path is that it? > > Learn more about the masters. That is an honorable > > thing to do. I > > aggree. And yet you say you are not a jnani? > > I'm soo mix-up now! What do you really want. Become > > a jnani or to > > learn more about the masters contradictions of the > > way? If you are a > > jnani, well why do you want to learn more from them? > > Are you a true > > Jnani saying he is not? Etc. > > > > If your one and only reason is as you said you want > > to compare your > > notes with others! Well my friend, I can't be of > > much help! I've > > thrown away all my notes about all every possible > > moments or > > understanding of the way. Everything is gone. I > > erase my computer. > > I'm like a dumb, like a child, not much to be proud > > of, and I > > haven't won any medal!!!at least if I had won a > > medal! " I " would > > have got something to be proud of!! ha ha ha! > > > > Tenderly, > > Alberto, > > > > > > > > --- ilikezen2004 <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > " coolasafool " > > > > <coolasafool> wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > im a new joinee. i have been thru some other > > > > internet advaita > > > > > lists.im in this spiritual thing since about > > past > > > > 15 years.the > > > > route > > > > > has been > > > > > > > > > > .... without further ado, i send forth my 1st > > > > > post. > > > > > > > > > > i have some > > > > observations/distillations/questions...seeks > > > > comments- > > > > > > > > > > 1.balsekar is taken to be Mhj's most authentic > > > > interpreter.but to > > > > me > > > > > most of his stuff appears as spiritual > > truisms-- > > > > > > > > > > " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want > > > > knowing fully well > > > > that > > > > > you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual > > > > web,great story.But > > > > then-- > > > > > whats the big deal?this is kindergarten > > > > stuff...may i kindly ask > > > > what > > > > > has been his realization,what has being his > > own > > > > sadhana, what is > > > > his > > > > > own unique experience--rather than > > parroting-- " all > > > > i say is a > > > > > concept " . > > > > > Can anyone share with me - what has been their > > > > most concrete > > > > benefit > > > > > from balsekar?? > > > > > the one benefit i derived from is that he > > helped > > > > me in de- > > > > > baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of > > > > conceptual baggage.but > > > > he > > > > > has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of > > > > " DOING " -the joy of > > > > > individual self effort in spiritual practice > > and > > > > has lulled me > > > > into a > > > > > dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i > > > > EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as > > > > an > > > > > individual entity but when it comes to > > meditation > > > > the mind has > > > > found > > > > > a large number of balsekaric excuses. > > > > > but i am where i was.none the wiser after his > > > > merry go round. > > > > > > > > > > maybe he is propounding a very subtle concept > > > > which is enabling > > > > his > > > > > followers to forget the past and dont care > > about > > > > future--enabling > > > > > them to live in the NOW ,which itself is a big > > > > meditation. > > > > > > > > > > but i want to ask the list members,what has > > been > > > > their experience?? > > > > > plus there are the allegations about him > > being a > > > > wei-wu-wei > > > > copycat-- > > > > > somehow i feel quite uneasy about his whole > > > > conceptual web. will > > > > be > > > > > thankful if the list can help me to get to the > > > > bottom of this > > > > fishy > > > > > stuff > > > > > > > > > > 2. my second frustration is with the religious > > > > guys as a > > > > > whole.........why cant they speak with one > > > > voice....im an indian > > > > and > > > > > i can really understand how frustrating it cud > > be > > > > for the > > > > westerner. > > > > > > > > > > someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds > > > > it...someone rejects > > > > > karma,others accept it. > > > > > no two so-called realised souls speak the same > > > > concepts.even if > > > > you > > > > > take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM > > > > THAT..some totally > > > > > different concepts in the end of his > > > > life....so??what happened - > > > > did > > > > > his programming go haywire.. > > > > > i mean i am noone to doubt another--but i can > > only > > > > judge by > > > > > appearance ..> if this is wot there is to show > > for > > > > 10000+ years of > > > > spirituality then > > > > > there is something seriously flawed > > > > somewhere:-))!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no offences meant. > > > > > rgds, > > > > > devendra > > > > > > > > Hi devendra, welcome to the group! > > > > > > > > I 'll start with this. Do you know that devendra > > in > > > > French if you > > > > put two I makes, deviendra which means will > > > > become!!! > > > > From what I red you are a serious seeker. My > > answer > > > > to you, if you > > > > accept it, will be an answer to an adult seeker > > not > > > > a child. Ok! > > > === message truncated === > > > Dear Devendra, I,ve been im the spiritual path for about 30 years now. I lost ( In a certain way) 30 long, long years of my life searching for enlightenment and my true self " who Am I " . I started at 6 years old. At six years old I started with my first spiritual question. What is the difference between my consciousness and other consciousness. Why do they experience other things that I'm not? I answerd that question only few years ago!!! Can you imagine!!! I'm 36. I'm still young and I'm soo happy it didn't take me 50 or 60 years. Buddhism say it takes several life for a person to be awakended. Can you imagine It took three years to master Nisargadatta to awaken to it true nature! And to Ramana Maharshi only few years. Well he says it has been almost an automatic matter. He presum his was dying and in that experience he had the revelation of his true nature. I believe him and that is how it works with God. God reveals his secrets to the person who wants to know him ( truly wants to know him). God takes away that understanding to those who laught at him and don't care about him, or life. He makes them spin around and around and around!!! hi hi hi! Been there, done that! Only God or a True Master can give you the revelation of your true nature. Trough the Grace of God, your eyes will open in sahaj Samadhi. And far far after. When you day to day state is sahaj samadhi. When you become a mature adult in that Samadhi which is you own state. You're own nature. You enter bhava samadhi or something like that. Then when you are an adult in bhava Samadhi if It is God's will and it will be at this stage. You enter Nirvana. The extension of the self. And you don't need to die physically before entering Nirvana. The bouddhas of the past, Did. Ramana and Master Nisargadatta I'm pretty sur they did. I can't speak for them. Jesus did it for sur :0) I know you understand me. I've met grand masters too, talked to a true Zen master. ( I mean physicaly). some of them are more selfish then selfishness it self! :0) You said: I have had occasion to observe many of the monks first > hand......imho they are not yet above their > desires. Right on !! Those are not yet there! It's as simple as that. You said: but they have their own justification for > it..while they deny this justification to the > " ignorant " masses. If you can, now, see that, then stay away from them!! :0) Well I mean those who are not true Masters. Like bouddha let's say! You said: if the truth be so very simple and if it is one... It is One. It's just You cannot see it at this point in time. The masters you are talking about just gave you too much beer to drink. Now you need to rest. and do " nothing " . You said: then how do we know > that we are not being lead on a wild-goose chase by > the ramblings of a madman. ha ha ha! :0) This is all there is!! my friend! Fools all fools! :0) (just kidding) I lost my wallet one day and I was looking for it. Than a fool(truly fool man from an institute approched me and said ; sir, is the wallet over there yours? I thank him with all my heart. The fool helpme to find my wallet! He still a fool. I am not!!! You said: i am plagued by serious doubts ( I cut it from above msg). This is the problem. Where are you? In your doubts. There is no awakening there! :0) You said: I mean there are n number of theories which can be > used to conceptually argue or 'dis'-argue or every > viewpoint but if NOBODY can tell the precise > thing..wot good is it? Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. Round and round and round is the circle. When will the circle stop? :000))))) big nose!! lol I like you Devendra, and you are soooo near awakening, that you don't see it know. Persevere it could take you few days, few months, few years, or maybe next life. It up to you. Do you quit or not that is the question? Alberto, > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 This is for u Devendra --- Retrospective* You could labor ten years under a master Trying to discern whether the teachings are true. But all you might learn is this: One must live one's own life. When one starts out learning a spiritual system, there are many absolute assertions that the masters make. These must be accepted with a provisional faith: Each must be tested and proved to yourself before you can believe in them. You will be exposed to all types of esoteric knowledge, but you need only be concerned with whether or not you can make them work for yourself. There will come an intermediate, joyous point where you find that certain techniques work even better than the scriptures claim. In the wake of these discoveries, you will also find that life continues to be just as thorny and problematic as ever. Does this mean that the study of Tao is useless? No. It only means that you have been laboring to equip yourself with skill. You must still go out and live your life to the end. When you look back and realize that you have absorbed the teachings so thoroughly that they have become routine, it is not the time to reject the system you have learned. It is the time to utilize what you have learned. You must express yourself, take action in the world, create new circumstances for yourself and others. Only then does the long acquisition of skill become worthwhile. ------------------- from _365 Tao: Daily Meditations_ by Deng Ming-Dao Copyright 1992 Deng Ming-Dao Published by HarperSanFrancisco (ISBN 0-06-250223-9) ------------------- To , , or change your address for the " Daily Tao " , please go to the following URL: http://dailytao.cogo.com/listadmin.html To reflect on something or connect with other Daily Tao members, go to: http://www.cogo.com/dtconnect/ To contact the list administrator, send email to: dailytao This is a word-of-mouth email list. If you enjoy it, feel free to share it, but please do not post it to the Web or to a public mailing list. Thank you. -Joseph Willemssen <dailytao ilikezen2004 [ilikezen2004] Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:08 PM Nisargadatta Re: Balsekar-Nisargadatta-et.al. Nisargadatta , Devendra Vyas <coolasafool> wrote: > My frustration with the so-called masters is - > > I have had occasion to observe many of the monks first > hand......imho they are not yet above their > desires..but they have their own justification for > it..while they deny this justification to the > " ignorant " masses. > > if the truth be so very simple and if it is one- why > does every new master on the block have so many > contradictory things to speak. > > like you said in one of your mails- it's just > experience.. > so if the TRUTH realization which is the distinguisher > between say me and a Nsg-Mhj is just an > experience..(like drug induced) ..then how do we know > that we are not being lead on a wild-goose chase by > the ramblings of a madman. > > -hence the time to > compare notes. > i mean there are n number of theories which can be > used to conceptually argue or 'dis'-argue or every > viewpoint but if NOBODY can tell the precise > thing..wot good is it? > > and alberto im not taking-myself-too-serious guy i may > appear in my mails.:-) > > > > > > I'm glad your undestood my critics, I knew you were > > not a child but > > and spiritual adult. That is why I hit hard!! Sorry! > > :0) I knew > > you'd understand! > > > > I think I undestand your motivation. You want to > > continue to add > > more and more to your knowledge of the spiritual > > path is that it? > > Learn more about the masters. That is an honorable > > thing to do. I > > aggree. And yet you say you are not a jnani? > > I'm soo mix-up now! What do you really want. Become > > a jnani or to > > learn more about the masters contradictions of the > > way? If you are a > > jnani, well why do you want to learn more from them? > > Are you a true > > Jnani saying he is not? Etc. > > > > If your one and only reason is as you said you want > > to compare your > > notes with others! Well my friend, I can't be of > > much help! I've > > thrown away all my notes about all every possible > > moments or > > understanding of the way. Everything is gone. I > > erase my computer. > > I'm like a dumb, like a child, not much to be proud > > of, and I > > haven't won any medal!!!at least if I had won a > > medal! " I " would > > have got something to be proud of!! ha ha ha! > > > > Tenderly, > > Alberto, > > > > > > > > --- ilikezen2004 <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , > > " coolasafool " > > > > <coolasafool> wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > im a new joinee. i have been thru some other > > > > internet advaita > > > > > lists.im in this spiritual thing since about > > past > > > > 15 years.the > > > > route > > > > > has been > > > > > > > > > > .... without further ado, i send forth my 1st > > > > > post. > > > > > > > > > > i have some > > > > observations/distillations/questions...seeks > > > > comments- > > > > > > > > > > 1.balsekar is taken to be Mhj's most authentic > > > > interpreter.but to > > > > me > > > > > most of his stuff appears as spiritual > > truisms-- > > > > > > > > > > " All happens as per god's will.Do as you want > > > > knowing fully well > > > > that > > > > > you cant do anything " . Ok, great conceptual > > > > web,great story.But > > > > then-- > > > > > whats the big deal?this is kindergarten > > > > stuff...may i kindly ask > > > > what > > > > > has been his realization,what has being his > > own > > > > sadhana, what is > > > > his > > > > > own unique experience--rather than > > parroting-- " all > > > > i say is a > > > > > concept " . > > > > > Can anyone share with me - what has been their > > > > most concrete > > > > benefit > > > > > from balsekar?? > > > > > the one benefit i derived from is that he > > helped > > > > me in de- > > > > > baggage-ification.helped me to shed lot of > > > > conceptual baggage.but > > > > he > > > > > has also robbed me of the ignorant bliss of > > > > " DOING " -the joy of > > > > > individual self effort in spiritual practice > > and > > > > has lulled me > > > > into a > > > > > dangerous spiritual complacency.so now i > > > > EAT,DRINK,SLEEP,WORK as > > > > an > > > > > individual entity but when it comes to > > meditation > > > > the mind has > > > > found > > > > > a large number of balsekaric excuses. > > > > > but i am where i was.none the wiser after his > > > > merry go round. > > > > > > > > > > maybe he is propounding a very subtle concept > > > > which is enabling > > > > his > > > > > followers to forget the past and dont care > > about > > > > future--enabling > > > > > them to live in the NOW ,which itself is a big > > > > meditation. > > > > > > > > > > but i want to ask the list members,what has > > been > > > > their experience?? > > > > > plus there are the allegations about him > > being a > > > > wei-wu-wei > > > > copycat-- > > > > > somehow i feel quite uneasy about his whole > > > > conceptual web. will > > > > be > > > > > thankful if the list can help me to get to the > > > > bottom of this > > > > fishy > > > > > stuff > > > > > > > > > > 2. my second frustration is with the religious > > > > guys as a > > > > > whole.........why cant they speak with one > > > > voice....im an indian > > > > and > > > > > i can really understand how frustrating it cud > > be > > > > for the > > > > westerner. > > > > > > > > > > someone rejects rebirth,someone propounds > > > > it...someone rejects > > > > > karma,others accept it. > > > > > no two so-called realised souls speak the same > > > > concepts.even if > > > > you > > > > > take nsg-mhj, he spoke some concepts in I AM > > > > THAT..some totally > > > > > different concepts in the end of his > > > > life....so??what happened - > > > > did > > > > > his programming go haywire.. > > > > > i mean i am noone to doubt another--but i can > > only > > > > judge by > > > > > appearance ..> if this is wot there is to show > > for > > > > 10000+ years of > > > > spirituality then > > > > > there is something seriously flawed > > > > somewhere:-))!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no offences meant. > > > > > rgds, > > > > > devendra > > > > > > > > Hi devendra, welcome to the group! > > > > > > > > I 'll start with this. Do you know that devendra > > in > > > > French if you > > > > put two I makes, deviendra which means will > > > > become!!! > > > > From what I red you are a serious seeker. My > > answer > > > > to you, if you > > > > accept it, will be an answer to an adult seeker > > not > > > > a child. Ok! > > > === message truncated === > > > Dear Devendra, I,ve been im the spiritual path for about 30 years now. I lost ( In a certain way) 30 long, long years of my life searching for enlightenment and my true self " who Am I " . I started at 6 years old. At six years old I started with my first spiritual question. What is the difference between my consciousness and other consciousness. Why do they experience other things that I'm not? I answerd that question only few years ago!!! Can you imagine!!! I'm 36. I'm still young and I'm soo happy it didn't take me 50 or 60 years. Buddhism say it takes several life for a person to be awakended. Can you imagine It took three years to master Nisargadatta to awaken to it true nature! And to Ramana Maharshi only few years. Well he says it has been almost an automatic matter. He presum his was dying and in that experience he had the revelation of his true nature. I believe him and that is how it works with God. God reveals his secrets to the person who wants to know him ( truly wants to know him). God takes away that understanding to those who laught at him and don't care about him, or life. He makes them spin around and around and around!!! hi hi hi! Been there, done that! Only God or a True Master can give you the revelation of your true nature. Trough the Grace of God, your eyes will open in sahaj Samadhi. And far far after. When you day to day state is sahaj samadhi. When you become a mature adult in that Samadhi which is you own state. You're own nature. You enter bhava samadhi or something like that. Then when you are an adult in bhava Samadhi if It is God's will and it will be at this stage. You enter Nirvana. The extension of the self. And you don't need to die physically before entering Nirvana. The bouddhas of the past, Did. Ramana and Master Nisargadatta I'm pretty sur they did. I can't speak for them. Jesus did it for sur :0) I know you understand me. I've met grand masters too, talked to a true Zen master. ( I mean physicaly). some of them are more selfish then selfishness it self! :0) You said: I have had occasion to observe many of the monks first > hand......imho they are not yet above their > desires. Right on !! Those are not yet there! It's as simple as that. You said: but they have their own justification for > it..while they deny this justification to the > " ignorant " masses. If you can, now, see that, then stay away from them!! :0) Well I mean those who are not true Masters. Like bouddha let's say! You said: if the truth be so very simple and if it is one... It is One. It's just You cannot see it at this point in time. The masters you are talking about just gave you too much beer to drink. Now you need to rest. and do " nothing " . You said: then how do we know > that we are not being lead on a wild-goose chase by > the ramblings of a madman. ha ha ha! :0) This is all there is!! my friend! Fools all fools! :0) (just kidding) I lost my wallet one day and I was looking for it. Than a fool(truly fool man from an institute approched me and said ; sir, is the wallet over there yours? I thank him with all my heart. The fool helpme to find my wallet! He still a fool. I am not!!! You said: i am plagued by serious doubts ( I cut it from above msg). This is the problem. Where are you? In your doubts. There is no awakening there! :0) You said: I mean there are n number of theories which can be > used to conceptually argue or 'dis'-argue or every > viewpoint but if NOBODY can tell the precise > thing..wot good is it? Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla. Round and round and round is the circle. When will the circle stop? :000))))) big nose!! lol I like you Devendra, and you are soooo near awakening, that you don't see it know. Persevere it could take you few days, few months, few years, or maybe next life. It up to you. Do you quit or not that is the question? Alberto, > > > > > > ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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