Guest guest Posted September 26, 2004 Report Share Posted September 26, 2004 The most basic tenet of non-dualistic theory......is the non-existence of the identified entity......... How is it.....that on a discussion board that is based on the words of Nisargadatta .....there are still voices that claim to be in the possession of their very own personal autonomy....which includes all of the volitional perks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 because imho.. this is a discussion board about nisargadatta maharaj and by implication in a broader sense about advaita,,about THE WAY by the followers of nisargadatta,by the seekers... because.. this is not a discussion board which is full of NISARGADATTA's ...... in fact NISARGADATTA and their tribe dont even attend discussion boards.... they sit in their homes and people come halfway across the world to hear them open their mouth.such is the power of their realization. warm rgds, devendra Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > The most basic tenet of non-dualistic theory......is the non- existence of the identified > entity......... > > How is it.....that on a discussion board that is based on the words of Nisargadatta .....there > are still voices that claim to be in the possession of their very own personal > autonomy....which includes all of the volitional perks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 of course there is no individual..... this individuality is nonsense!!!!that is the basic tenet of religion/spirituality.... but what is our conviction???what is our own depth of experience???or are we merely parroting others words out of habit and somehow feeling enlightenment will one day come upon us like a trick???? i know for sure-- when devendra vyas is doing night shift at his office in india and replying to messages in internet forums he is an individual who has to obey the laws of space-time-cause who has to believe in the concept of progress in time thru self effort.the self effort when it will reach its ripening will itself fall down exhausted and will point to THAT where effort cant go.but till that time i will continue my journey in time..im not timeless till then... i cant say thers no gravity for me when this very moment i am being pulled to mother earth....but that dont mean ill not use the rocket to reach space where there is no gravity...but ill say there is no gravity for me when i reach outer space. rgds, devendra vyas Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > The most basic tenet of non-dualistic theory......is the non- existence of the identified > entity......... > > How is it.....that on a discussion board that is based on the words of Nisargadatta .....there > are still voices that claim to be in the possession of their very own personal > autonomy....which includes all of the volitional perks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Nisargadatta , " coolasafool " <coolasafool> wrote: > of course there is no individual..... > > this individuality is nonsense!!!!that is the basic tenet of > religion/spirituality.... > That which is referred to as " religion " or " spirituality " ....emerges downstream from the illusion of separation. > > but what is our conviction???what is our own depth of experience???or > are we merely parroting others words out of habit and somehow feeling > enlightenment will one day come upon us like a trick???? > > > i know for sure-- when devendra vyas is doing night shift at his > office in india and replying to messages in internet forums he is an > individual The one who claims to be an individual.......IS the suppositional entity...........that mistakes the " I-am " for something substantial and autonomous..........from this supposition..... the whole hoopla emerges. who has to obey the laws of space-time-cause who has to > believe in the concept of progress in time thru self effort.the self > effort when it will reach its ripening will itself fall down > exhausted and will point to THAT where effort cant go.but till that > time i will continue my journey in time..im not timeless till then... > > i cant say thers no gravity for me when this very moment i am being > pulled to mother earth....but that dont mean ill not use the rocket > to reach space where there is no gravity...but ill say there is no > gravity for me when i reach outer space. > > > rgds, > devendra vyas > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > The most basic tenet of non-dualistic theory......is the non- > existence of the identified > > entity......... > > > > How is it.....that on a discussion board that is based on the words > of Nisargadatta .....there > > are still voices that claim to be in the possession of their very > own personal > > autonomy....which includes all of the volitional perks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: Hi Toombarus, how is your lady, did she escape into the forest again? And what happend to your dreams of yesterday, any progress? So, what do YOU know about Nisargadatta? See, he was not teaching any theory. In calling Advaita a theory you are showing your whole ignorance. For Nisargadatta and his lovers Advaita is the breath of life. And this breath is not just in his words. It is in the surrendering to a master. You wrote: >The most basic tenet of non-dualistic theory is the non-existence of >the identified entity You are here as part of Maya, a player in a game. It does not matter if you realize that it is just a game or not. You are still the player. You are responsible for your world. >How is it.....that on a discussion board that is based on the words >of Nisargadatta .....there >are still voices that claim to be in the possession of their very own >personal >autonomy....which includes all of the volitional perks? As the player of this game you have got personal autonomy. It does not matter if you realize that it is just a illusive game or not. The game is still the game, not more but also not less. There are lots of things you can DO - first of all: live your life and dont misuse Advaita as an excuse to avoid living it whenever it gets uncomfortable. You will not find truth by writing sophisticated statements with lots of dots inside... .... )) Nor by pulling apart every word from others by the use of your own homemade theory. Listening to Nisargadattas words must have been like listening to a singing bird. There are still such birds around, find them and listen... S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 > Devendra, I came on this board for you,,,you have already understood > what many cannot. As you continue to release this struggle, and > continue to embrace what you " are " , you will understand the > unification was already always there. You will see more clearly > there never was an " illusion " . And then, you'll know more clearly > why it's all being done. > And even this idea here presented is an attachment. Of course it > must be that way, > or the experience would cease. > > im flattered:-))))but seriously...a blessed day it will be ...then the JIVA will look back and say .. " of course- it was a self-imposed struggle " btw since the topic of rock n roll came up and since magicsteve's mail refers to many more birds singing... i copy paste one of my favorite lines which surprisingly is very advaitic thought the writer may not have heard of advaita... " Strangers passing in the street By chance two separate glances meet And I am you and what I see is me " -Pink Floyd " ECHOES " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Nisargadatta , " coolasafool " <coolasafool> wrote: > > Devendra, I came on this board for you,,,you have already > understood > > what many cannot. As you continue to release this struggle, and > > continue to embrace what you " are " , you will understand the > > unification was already always there. You will see more clearly > > there never was an " illusion " . And then, you'll know more clearly > > why it's all being done. > > And even this idea here presented is an attachment. Of course it > > must be that way, > > or the experience would cease. > > > > > > > im flattered:-))))but seriously...a blessed day it will be ...then > the JIVA will look back and say .. " of course- it was a self- imposed > struggle " > > btw since the topic of rock n roll came up and since magicsteve's > mail refers to many more birds singing... > > i copy paste one of my favorite lines which surprisingly is very > advaitic thought the writer may not have heard of advaita... > > " > > Strangers passing in the street > By chance two separate glances meet > And I am you and what I see is me > " > > -Pink Floyd " ECHOES " ------- yes, I love Pink Floyd I thank you for the ideas you bring and I humbly and sincerely offer mine. Advaita is everything and in everything, you are true. There is really no escaping it. This is just my point too. We look down and see the hand, and see the foot, but we can't really see the entire body, not without a mirror. Hence, we separate to see ourselves more clearly in the mirror of each other. Might as well accept that. And then look at what the next experience might be. People pre-occupy themselves so much with this struggle to escape it. A western writer named Debbie Ford put the idea of Advaita, and the concept of " I am That " in a book for easier understanding called, " Dark side of the light chasers " . I give it to people here when they want to know what I'm about as an individual. It's easier than sharing Nisagardatta's concepts, but in the end it's pretty much the same idea at the core. At the very core of no-thing there is no illusion. And then comes unlimited choice and experience, and yes that takes separation otherwise we'd still be experiencing NO thing. To deny or struggle against separation is to deny what we came to experience. To embrace separation stops the struggle, which brings clarity and understanding, which, ironically brings a unification. No wonder we chose to experience separation (obviously we did or we wouldn't be here) because being in No thing is really very vanilla (no flavor). It was not easy for me to stay in that state to a large degree and still function in my daily job activities. I had to swing more to the altered state. And now that I know the difference between no flavor and flavor I decide to separate/alter enough to get my chosen desired affects. Of course in the NO thing state there is no desire. There's no dispution on that count. That's why I don't want to swing that far back into complete whole state. So, I keep up the illusion, but of course it really isn't an illusion, because I know very well what I'm doing. Consciousness is involved to more of a degree then before. I enjoy experiencing joy. Yes it is a separated/altered state, but I choose it. Am I wrong for choosing that? But how can it be wrong, when in NO thing state there is no real wrong. much love to you and your family Devendra. Much love to all on the board, as we all look to each other to see the mirrors and reflections and continual experience. Much love to you tombaru. It can be very GOOD to talk about things and teachings, especially if you look for the mirror by saying 'I am That' while your reading the message and talking about it. Then you get to walk your talk. The board then becomes a divine opportunity for that, yes? Then you get to decide what you are 'not'. People want to control and manipulate the illusion in order to achieve an altered goal, and they aren't even conscious of doing it. That's why they don't become unified and remain altered and don't achieve conscious understanding. ~*~ Donny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2004 Report Share Posted September 27, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Hi Toombarus, > > how is your lady, did she escape into the forest again? And what > happend to your dreams of yesterday, any progress? > > So, what do YOU know about Nisargadatta? See, he was not teaching any > theory. In calling Advaita a theory you are showing your whole > ignorance. For Nisargadatta and his lovers Advaita is the breath of > life. And this breath is not just in his words. It is in the > surrendering to a master. > > You wrote: > > >The most basic tenet of non-dualistic theory is the non-existence of > >the identified entity > > You are here as part of Maya, a player in a game. It does not matter > if you realize that it is just a game or not. You are still the > player. You are responsible for your world. > > >How is it.....that on a discussion board that is based on the words > >of Nisargadatta .....there > >are still voices that claim to be in the possession of their very own > >personal > >autonomy....which includes all of the volitional perks? > > As the player of this game you have got personal autonomy. It does not > matter if you realize that it is just a illusive game or not. The game > is still the game, not more but also not less. There are lots of > things you can DO - first of all: live your life and dont misuse > Advaita as an excuse to avoid living it whenever it gets > uncomfortable. > > You will not find truth by writing sophisticated statements with lots > of dots inside... .... )) Nor by pulling apart every word from > others by the use of your own homemade theory. > > Listening to Nisargadattas words must have been like listening to a > singing bird. There are still such birds around, find them and > listen... > > S. Hi stefan! I'm seeing that you truly are thoses tigers!!! I'm impressed. Your words speak the truth and there is no lies about them! The truth speaks but only the one who truly want to listen understand it. )) Pete!! I didn't erase the texte above because I wanted to leave it there. to be read again!! :0)) Alberto, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: >I'm seeing that you truly are thoses tigers!!! Hi Alberto, I am happy to see you again (and my ego is also happy and sends you greetings) ! You know... if you could look inside me you would still see quite a lot of fear... but at least I have a sword now !!! And I feel a burning anger strangely mixed with compassion reading statements like the one where I was replying... Is it not a bad sign if one feels anger? Love Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > >I'm seeing that you truly are thoses tigers!!! > > Hi Alberto, I am happy to see you again (and my ego is also happy and > sends you greetings) ! > > You know... if you could look inside me you would still see quite a > lot of fear... but at least I have a sword now !!! And I feel a > burning anger strangely mixed with compassion reading statements like > the one where I was replying... > > Is it not a bad sign if one feels anger? > > Love > Stefan Hi stefan, Love, You are wonderful you know, you are going to make my tears fall. Your ego is also happy hein! That means that you know that you have an ego! That is wonderful. If you can't see or understand your ego, how will you eventualy destroyed it! :0) You know something stefan You are starting to take the attributes of the spiritual Hero. Honesty, being a true person, not a lyer, you are becoming a " true " seeker etc. I see that you have now your Divine sword. I'm soo glad for you. I'll just ask you something, beware, don't hurt your self with this Sword. It takes much time to recover from that wound. :0) Use it with wisdom. Kill the ignorance! Anger, compassion, compassion, anger. It's up to you choose whatever is needed! You said: if you could look inside me you would still see quite a lot of fear... Smiless know something stefan. I see you!! :0) Love, Alberto, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 ilikezen2004 <ilikezen2004 wrote: Nisargadatta , " Stefan " wrote: > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > wrote: >snip... You know something stefan You are starting to take the attributes of the spiritual Hero. Honesty, being a true person, not a lyer, you are becoming a " true " seeker etc. I see that you have now your Divine sword. I'm soo glad for you. I'll just ask you something, beware, don't hurt your self with this Sword. It takes much time to recover from that wound. :0) Use it with wisdom. Kill the ignorance! **** Hi Alberto/Stephan, The above paragraph goes well with this poem: (imo) (Odin's experience) For nine days and nights I hung on a windswept tree Wounded by my own spear. I made an offering Of my self to my Self. With neither food nor drink I saw into the depths of Being And from there took up the Runes, Then fell fainting. Well-being and wisdom Was my prize. _____ Copied from, Pre-Christian north European collection of songs and poems known as the, Elder Edda. Principal deity was the All-Father, Odin. Bill W. **** Anger, compassion, compassion, anger. It's up to you choose whatever is needed! You said: if you could look inside me you would still see quite a lot of fear... Smiless know something stefan. I see you!! :0) Love, Alberto, ALL-NEW Messenger - all new features - even more fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Hello Bill, thank you for this poem, wow, so powerful... I dont know the whole story... wounded by his own spear... I wonder what had happened... I always had the feeling I am protected, all my life, all those years... I guess hurting others means hurting yourself as well... simply through the misuse of power... Thanks for sharing this and thanks for your sympathy. Love Stefan Nisargadatta , Bill wood <ameego2u> wrote: > > > ilikezen2004 <ilikezen2004> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " > wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > wrote: > > >snip... > You know something stefan You are starting to take the attributes of > the spiritual Hero. Honesty, being a true person, not a lyer, you > are becoming a " true " seeker etc. I see that you have now your > Divine sword. I'm soo glad for you. I'll just ask you something, > beware, don't hurt your self with this Sword. It takes much time to > recover from that wound. :0) Use it with wisdom. Kill the ignorance! > > **** > Hi Alberto/Stephan, The above paragraph goes well with this poem: (imo) > > (Odin's experience) > > For nine days and nights > > I hung on a windswept tree > > Wounded by my own spear. > > I made an offering > > Of my self to my Self. > > With neither food nor drink > > I saw into the depths of Being > > And from there took up the Runes, > > Then fell fainting. > > Well-being and wisdom > > Was my prize. _____ > > Copied from, > > Pre-Christian north European collection of songs and poems > > known as the, Elder Edda. Principal deity was the All-Father, Odin. > > Bill W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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