Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 A question about the relational aspects of material objects..... such how much higher one mountain is compared to another.... can be answered with some degree of relative accuracy....their relative height would fluctuate somewhat because the standard against which they are measured being " sea level " changes within the moment.... A question about perception like: Why is the sky blue? assumes that the sky is blue (which it isn't) and then wonders why. Any question concerning that which exists only as a concept.....such as: What is enlightenment?......makes as much sense.....and has as much hope of resolution as:............How dirty was Cinderella's dress?.........or:...... Who am I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Kidding a tad with the Pete-o-matic! When I ask another are you enlightened? To whom do I address the question actually? What am I really asking ? And, above all, why do I ask this question? a) Do I fit all my requirements to judge you or myself realized or not realized? What do I consider as indispensable requirements for enlightenment and why? b) Do I consider that I fit all your requirements to consider myself enlightened? And, why should I? Maybe, I am even asking, have I attained a state, a vision beyond description? Or have I transcended selfhood? And, why should these be requirements for enlightenment? Who has propagated such absurdity? Can I, as an " I " , transcend myself? And, would be another " I " able to recognize that? Is there any chance, that any answer will match such question? Or, should I look there were such questions never arise? Would it not be better for me to understand the reason behind my questions? I am asking because I am searching for authority! Because I want to be relieved of the burden of verifying each of my statements! I am asking because I don't want to imitate someone else? Because I know that any affirmative answer will unmask me as an impostor! So the question always reveals a duality, and duplicity of intent. What should I do? Kip: Pete, shut up and listen!!! Kip Almazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 imho. this question actually touches epistemology...and the answers -- " who is asking the question? the question itself is a concept " ..etc.-while being genuine aids for self-enquiry ;trivialise the matter as such and dont really give a proper answer.(if there be one:-)). how do we know that a man is enligthened? or rather in a broader sense - how do we know there is a BEYOND? HOW DO WE KNOW?-- the six methods of valid knowledge as per advaita are (cf.Vedanta Paribhasa) 1.Perception. 2.Inference. 3.Verbal testimony. 4.Comparison. 5.Postulation. 6.Non-apprehension. the exposition of each of the above is involved in itself and interested candidates may directly look up Vedanta Paribhasa or Methods of Knowledge According to Advaita Vedanta. by Swami Satprakashananda . Well doubt can doubt all except itself.so even if we take it that a X is enlightened?how would we verify what he says - and that indeed there is a BEYOND.he could be lying all the time!!! the FULL STOP is faith.out of the 6 above-the most imp. for the suprasensuous knowledge is verbal testimony of a SAGE.(this method of knowledge is unique to vedanta)i.e., AUTHORITIES. like NSG-MHJ or Upanishads. Actually the spoken word has its own potency- it when coming from a 'right oscillator' can cause resonance within and can liberate in a jiffy. this spoken word is the basis of the UPANISHADIC MAHAVAKYAS or ZEN KOANS. so all of vedanta's elegant logic and rigorous methods are all on the surface(like the tusks of the elephant)-the bedrock is FAITH. the 'logicry' is just to tire out/refine the intellect and show it its own limitations since intellect demands concepts. so the end is FAITH in the words of the trustworthy,FAITH in the authentic word(apta-vakya in sanskrit),the words of a SAGE carry conviction without proof..how would we know that an X is SAGE?.....couple of heuristics here some wud say. - our intuition,our observation,his life if it is in conformance with the spirit of the scriptures,if he has gone beyond desire,if he acts without any selfish motive.....but mostly FAITH which arises out of observation/deduction/intuition.. " -tion " .... and this FAITH is the mystic twilight(last time im using this word:-))..which is used and abused time and again. but if we aspire for THAT in the end it comes down to FAITH... the topic is quite involved and the matter can take big conceptual LOOP...interested parties can refer the book by Swami Satprakashananda (it demands lot of intellectual rigor and is quite rough reading) but it need not be so bad.... maths too stands on axioms. scienctific facts too though verifiable universally stand initially on the word of the scientist. so also spiritual facts stand on the basis of the results of experiments done by the SAGE.these results are universally verifiable by those willing the follow the process. rgds, devendra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > A question about the relational aspects of material objects..... such how much higher one mountain is compared to another.... can be answered with some degree of relative accuracy....their relative height would fluctuate somewhat because the standard against which they are measured being " sea level " changes within the moment.... > > > A question about perception like: > Why is the sky blue? > assumes that the sky is blue (which it isn't) and then wonders why. > > Any question concerning that which exists only as a concept.....such as: What is enlightenment?......makes as much sense.....and has as much hope of resolution as:............How dirty was Cinderella's dress?.........or:...... Who am I?>> Never mind Cinderella, they all wanted to know how dirty was Monica's dress. Except Bill. I don't think he really cared. Bill. A Rhodes scholar, you know.... from the waist up. From the waist down - a high school equivalency certificate. OK, sorry to get off topic, carry on, I don't want Niz to throw me out. I am THAT and not even THAT said the CAT in the HAT SO Let's have some real fun that is fun and CHAT all about.... THAT in THAT big HAT of the FAT CAT of THAT in the room of Niz-Gar-DAT uh-oh *SPLAT* no more CAT ~freyja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> wrote: Thank you, Joyce. Tell me the meaning of the Kip Almazy handle. Don't be so paranoic about your identity. ) Who ever heard of an enlightened being who acts like an old maid? Just kidding Joyce. ) > Kidding a tad with the Pete-o-matic! > > > When I ask another are you enlightened? > To whom do I address the question actually? > What am I really asking ? > And, above all, why do I ask this question? > > a) Do I fit all my requirements to > judge you or myself realized or not realized? > What do I consider as indispensable requirements > for enlightenment and why? > > b) Do I consider that I fit all > your requirements to consider myself > enlightened? > And, why should I? > > Maybe, I am even asking, have I attained > a state, a vision beyond description? Or > have I transcended selfhood? > And, why should these be requirements > for enlightenment? > Who has propagated such absurdity? > Can I, as an " I " , transcend myself? > And, would be another " I " able to recognize that? > > Is there any chance, that any answer will > match such question? > Or, should I look there were such questions > never arise? > > Would it not be better for me to understand the > reason behind my questions? > > I am asking because I am searching for > authority! > Because I want to be relieved > of the burden of verifying each of my statements! > I am asking because I don't want to > imitate someone else? Because I know that any > affirmative answer will unmask me as an impostor! > So the question always reveals a duality, > and duplicity of intent. > What should I do? > > > Kip: Pete, shut up and listen!!! > > > Kip Almazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.