Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 ..........but I don't remember Nisargadatta ever mentioning God............ toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > .........but I don't remember Nisargadatta ever mentioning God............ > > > > toombaru God is everything! Self realisation, Divine Realisation, The void , When he says I am That. " That " is God. Reality is God. I have to go to sleep! :0)) Alberto, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > wrote: > > .........but I don't remember Nisargadatta ever mentioning > God............ > > > > > > > > toombaru > > God is everything! Self realisation, Divine Realisation, The void , > When he says I am That. " That " is God. Reality is God. > I have to go to sleep! :0)) > Alberto, Actually.......Nisargadatta never said: " I am that " ......It was Maurice Frydman that came up with that......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 alberto and list will accuse me of being " swami-ish " but i have some observations to make.... most of the neo-vedantins who have had their first brush with vedanta thru Nsg-Mhj feel that he was the first and the only one and that the whole thing started with him.... this is partly becoz Mhj himself never encouraged inquiry into his lineage of Navnath. but the fact is ---there's a whole history in India about vedanta...Nisargadatta was and is the best ambassador of that vedanta for many...but lets not forget the process /the background of which the culmination was Nisargadatta. I AM THAT is one of the MAHAVAKYAS of Vedanta.specifically AHAM BRAHMASMI. there are 4 in all - THE MAHAVAKYAS OF VEDANTAThe Mahavakyas represent the gist of the Vedanta.Each Veda contains one Mahavakya: 1.AYAM ATMA BRAHMAN--THIS ATMA IS BRAHMAN***ATHARVA VEDA-MANDUKYA UPANISHAD. 2.PRAJNANAM BRAHMAN--CONSCIOUSNESS IS BRAHMAN***RIG VEDA-AITAREYA UPANISHAD. 3.AHAM BRAHMASMI--I AM BRAHMAN***YAJUR VEDA-BRIHADARANYAKA UPANISHAD. 4.TAT-TVAM-ASI--THOU ART THAT***SAMA VEDA-CHHANDOGYA UPANISHAD. ..Nsg-mhj never said I AM THAT but there are many here who repeat it ad nauseam :-((. rgds, devendra Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > > wrote: > > > .........but I don't remember Nisargadatta ever mentioning > > God............ > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > God is everything! Self realisation, Divine Realisation, The void , > > When he says I am That. " That " is God. Reality is God. > > I have to go to sleep! :0)) > > Alberto, > > > > > > Actually.......Nisargadatta never said: > " I am that " ......It was Maurice Frydman that came up with that......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > but I don't remember Nisargadatta ever mentioning God............ For me this whole " God " issue is a complex one because the religions mostly have misused God for their own purposes. But I wonder: did you ever study Nisargadattas teachings? He very, very often has used the words " God " , " divine " etc... Why dont you just read his books again? Then you will see, that his view is not a " nihilistic " one, as you seem to believe (?). For a start I am giving you some quotes - but they have to be taken with care, because it is not so good to read his words outside the context: Q: Then why all effort at being good? M: It keeps you on the move. You go on and on till you find God. Then God takes you into Himself -- and makes you as He is. " 'I am' is the root, God is the tree. " " Pleasure and pain lost their sway over me. I was free from desire and fear. I found myself full, needing nothing. I saw that in the ocean of pure awareness, on the surface of the universal consciousness, the numberless waves of the phenomenal worlds arise and subside beginninglessly and endlessly. As consciousness, they are all me. As events they are all mine. There is a mysterious power that looks after them. That power is awareness, Self, Life, God, whatever name you give it. " Q: Nevertheless, you are aware of the immense suffering of the world? M: Of course I am, much more than you are. Q: Then what do you do? M: I look at it through the eyes of God and find that all is well. All the best to you Stefan (Achileas - unenlightened!!!! -haha-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Devendra, listen carefuly, I you want to understand the scriprures they are beyound yours toughts. They only show you the Way. You ARE THE WAY!!! Alberto, If my name was Steve would I really change. Only the names change you don't. Nisargadatta , " coolasafool " <coolasafool> wrote: > alberto and list will accuse me of being " swami-ish " but i have some > observations to make.... > > > most of the neo-vedantins who have had their first brush with vedanta > thru Nsg-Mhj feel that he was the first and the only one and that the > whole thing started with him.... > > this is partly becoz Mhj himself never encouraged inquiry into his > lineage of Navnath. > > but the fact is ---there's a whole history in India about > vedanta...Nisargadatta was and is the best ambassador of that vedanta > for many...but lets not forget the process /the background of which > the culmination was Nisargadatta. > > I AM THAT is one of the MAHAVAKYAS of Vedanta.specifically AHAM > BRAHMASMI. > > there are 4 in all - > > THE MAHAVAKYAS OF VEDANTAThe Mahavakyas represent the gist of the > Vedanta.Each Veda contains one Mahavakya: > 1.AYAM ATMA BRAHMAN--THIS ATMA IS BRAHMAN***ATHARVA VEDA-MANDUKYA > UPANISHAD. > > 2.PRAJNANAM BRAHMAN--CONSCIOUSNESS IS BRAHMAN***RIG VEDA-AITAREYA > UPANISHAD. > > 3.AHAM BRAHMASMI--I AM BRAHMAN***YAJUR VEDA-BRIHADARANYAKA UPANISHAD. > > 4.TAT-TVAM-ASI--THOU ART THAT***SAMA VEDA-CHHANDOGYA UPANISHAD. > > .Nsg-mhj never said I AM THAT but there are many here who repeat it > ad nauseam :-((. > > rgds, > devendra > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > > > wrote: > > > > .........but I don't remember Nisargadatta ever mentioning > > > God............ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > God is everything! Self realisation, Divine Realisation, The > void , > > > When he says I am That. " That " is God. Reality is God. > > > I have to go to sleep! :0)) > > > Alberto, > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually.......Nisargadatta never said: > > " I am that " ......It was Maurice Frydman that came up with > that......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > but I don't remember Nisargadatta ever mentioning God............ > > For me this whole " God " issue is a complex one because the religions > mostly have misused God for their own purposes. But I wonder: did you > ever study Nisargadattas teachings? He very, very often has used the > words " God " , " divine " etc... Why dont you just read his books again? > Then you will see, that his view is not a " nihilistic " one, as you > seem to believe (?). > > For a start I am giving you some quotes - but they have to be taken > with care, because it is not so good to read his words outside the > context: > > Q: Then why all effort at being good? > M: It keeps you on the move. You go on and on till you find God. Then > God takes you into Himself -- and makes you as He is. > > " 'I am' is the root, God is the tree. " > > " Pleasure and pain lost their sway over me. I was free from desire and > fear. I found myself full, needing nothing. I saw that in the ocean of > pure awareness, on the surface of the universal consciousness, the > numberless waves of the phenomenal worlds arise and subside > beginninglessly and endlessly. As consciousness, they are all me. As > events they are all mine. There is a mysterious power that looks after > them. That power is awareness, Self, Life, God, whatever name you give > it. " > > Q: Nevertheless, you are aware of the immense suffering of the world? > M: Of course I am, much more than you are. > Q: Then what do you do? > M: I look at it through the eyes of God and find that all is well. ******************************************************** Thanks Stefan, Look Stefan, what the master said here! :Q: Nevertheless, you are aware of the immense suffering of the world? M: Of course I am, much more than you are. Alberto: Reality is. When cannot avoid it with our thoughts, experiences, visions etc. etc. We are, and it is obvious! He says and I am much more aware of the suffring than you are. He is not hidding in his head!! Understood! You won't stay unenlighten too long! :0) and it is not a joke!! You Achiles!! Alberto, > All the best to you > Stefan (Achileas - unenlightened!!!! -haha-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > but I don't remember Nisargadatta ever mentioning God............ > > For me this whole " God " issue is a complex one because the religions > mostly have misused God for their own purposes. But I wonder: did you > ever study Nisargadattas teachings? He very, very often has used the > words " God " , " divine " etc... Why dont you just read his books again? > Then you will see, that his view is not a " nihilistic " one, as you > seem to believe (?). > > For a start I am giving you some quotes - but they have to be taken > with care, because it is not so good to read his words outside the > context: > > Q: Then why all effort at being good? > M: It keeps you on the move. You go on and on till you find God. Then > God takes you into Himself -- and makes you as He is. > > " 'I am' is the root, God is the tree. " > > " Pleasure and pain lost their sway over me. I was free from desire and > fear. I found myself full, needing nothing. I saw that in the ocean of > pure awareness, on the surface of the universal consciousness, the > numberless waves of the phenomenal worlds arise and subside > beginninglessly and endlessly. As consciousness, they are all me. As > events they are all mine. There is a mysterious power that looks after > them. That power is awareness, Self, Life, God, whatever name you give > it. " > > Q: Nevertheless, you are aware of the immense suffering of the world? > M: Of course I am, much more than you are. > Q: Then what do you do? > M: I look at it through the eyes of God and find that all is well. > > All the best to you > Stefan (Achileas - unenlightened!!!! -haha-) Ok.......I stand corrected.......but you have to admit......residing within the concept of " god " .......is the implication of something other then god...... .....it is from this distinction.....this crack.....that the hoopla extends its tendrils........and the dream......dances. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > but I don't remember Nisargadatta ever mentioning God............ > > > > For me this whole " God " issue is a complex one because the religions > > mostly have misused God for their own purposes. But I wonder: did you > > ever study Nisargadattas teachings? He very, very often has used the > > words " God " , " divine " etc... Why dont you just read his books again? > > Then you will see, that his view is not a " nihilistic " one, as you > > seem to believe (?). > > > > For a start I am giving you some quotes - but they have to be taken > > with care, because it is not so good to read his words outside the > > context: > > > > Q: Then why all effort at being good? > > M: It keeps you on the move. You go on and on till you find God. Then > > God takes you into Himself -- and makes you as He is. > > > > " 'I am' is the root, God is the tree. " > > > > " Pleasure and pain lost their sway over me. I was free from desire and > > fear. I found myself full, needing nothing. I saw that in the ocean of > > pure awareness, on the surface of the universal consciousness, the > > numberless waves of the phenomenal worlds arise and subside > > beginninglessly and endlessly. As consciousness, they are all me. As > > events they are all mine. There is a mysterious power that looks after > > them. That power is awareness, Self, Life, God, whatever name you give > > it. " > > > > Q: Nevertheless, you are aware of the immense suffering of the world? > > M: Of course I am, much more than you are. > > Q: Then what do you do? > > M: I look at it through the eyes of God and find that all is well. > > > > All the best to you > > Stefan (Achileas - unenlightened!!!! -haha-) > > > > > Ok.......I stand corrected.......but you have to admit......residing within the concept of " god " .......is the implication of something other then god...... > > ....it is from this distinction.....this crack.....that the hoopla extends its tendrils........and the dream......dances. and.........it is from this dream of separation.....that an imaginary machine emerges....... that begins to believe that it can think....its very own thoughts...... that it can cut its very own umbilical cord..........and then struggles to return to a mythical......... primal womb......... toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: >Ok, I stand corrected, but you have to admit residing within the >concept of " god " is the implication of something other then god. It >is from this distinction, this crack, that the hoopla extends its >tendrils and the dream dances. what makes the dream dance? I see two possibilities: 1.there is NOTHING: then it is just the hooplas tendrils which are dancing! (Haha... you are a master of words!) This is finally unfathomable. I think thats about where existentialism is standing, and where (I assume) you are standing. 2.there is SOMETHING: this has been testified by the masters... as Nisargadatta just said about those numberless waves of the phenomenal worlds: " There is a mysterious power that looks after them. That power is awareness, Self, Life, God, whatever name you give it. " This is generally where Advaita is standing. >and it is from this dream of separation that an imaginary machine >emerges that begins to believe that it can think its very >own >thoughts that it can cut its very own umbilical cord and then >struggles to return to a mythical... primal womb... mhmm, yes, it sometimes does... but this has nothing to do with the awakening as Nisargadatta has described it. Love Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > >Ok, I stand corrected, but you have to admit residing within the > >concept of " god " is the implication of something other then god. It > >is from this distinction, this crack, that the hoopla extends its > >tendrils and the dream dances. > > what makes the dream dance? I see two possibilities: > > 1.there is NOTHING: then it is just the hooplas tendrils which are > dancing! (Haha... you are a master of words!) This is finally > unfathomable. I think thats about where existentialism is standing, > and where (I assume) you are standing. > > 2.there is SOMETHING: this has been testified by the masters... as > Nisargadatta just said about those numberless waves of the phenomenal > worlds: > " There is a mysterious power that looks after them. That power is > awareness, Self, Life, God, whatever name you give it. " > This is generally where Advaita is standing. > > >and it is from this dream of separation that an imaginary machine > >emerges that begins to believe that it can think its very >own > >thoughts that it can cut its very own umbilical cord and then > >struggles to return to a mythical... primal womb... > > mhmm, yes, it sometimes does... but this has nothing to do with the > awakening as Nisargadatta has described it. > > Love > Stefan On one................has ever awakened. The odds of awakening.....are the same as exploring the inside of a black hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 > > > > > On one................has ever awakened. P: Hey Toom, notice how fate dwarted your pessimisted sentence, No became, On one. ha, ha. fickle finger of fate award! > > The odds of awakening.....are the same as exploring the inside of a black hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On one................has ever awakened. > > P: Hey Toom, notice how fate dwarted your pessimisted sentence, > No became, On one. ha, ha. fickle finger of fate award! > > > > The odds of awakening.....are the same as exploring the inside of a > black hole. Maybe it is I.......who needs that I surgery.....:-) say......If you don't want that tie with the hula girl on it?......I was wondering................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2004 Report Share Posted September 30, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: >On one... has ever awakened. The odds of awakening.....are the same >as exploring the inside of a black hole. My friend <smile> I see you did not dispute my speech about the existence of " one " . So, do you belong to category (1) (sartre) or category (2) (nisargadatta)? If you belong to (1) then... what shall I say? You know... I dont want to make you feel embarrased... If you belong to (2) you have now to move on... become a little clearer... stronger... reflect a little harder about what you want to say. " No one has ever awakened " ... this is somehow true, but only somehow. Better you should have written " No-body " . then it makes more sense. The one who has awakened while still connected with an alive body: he in fact became no-body. But the miracle is, that his body is still there for us and he can speek. This has happened in the case of Nisargadatta, as he has described: >Pleasure and pain lost their sway over me. I was free from desire and >fear. I found myself full, needing nothing. I saw that in the ocean >of pure awareness, on the surface of the universal consciousness, the >numberless waves of the phenomenal worlds arise and subside >beginninglessly and endlessly. As consciousness, they are all me. As >events they are all mine. There is a mysterious power that looks >after them. That power is awareness, Self, Life, God, whatever name >you give it. S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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