Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Actually many dismiss sadhana............saying that it is also a lie and that one will never arrive by walking.since one is already ARRIVED. this argument also has its merits coming as it does from the ajatavadins.but almost in ALL the forums and pseudo gurus you can find persons who misuse this argument to the extreme ..it becomes sickening and tasteless. Sadhana is very very important--all is a LIE and sadhana is the LAST LIE ..so to say..of course it is also in the maze of illusion but its like the exit out of the maze.. i recollect Sri Ramana has said once- the spirtual practice is like the stick used to settle the wood in the cremation pyre..in the end it is also wood & gets burnt up......but it has its very valid purpose. swami ramdas was once asked - the classic pseudo advaitic question- who is doing the sadhana?? actually this question is in a sense like asking - who am i? his reply was basic - only at the end of your sadhana can you tell who was the do-er of sadhana. in my opinion this is the right answer becoz sadhana also is false...but its the last piece of falsehood that comes out of the Jiva before it is extinguished. rgds, devendra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 <snip> > swami ramdas was once asked - the classic pseudo advaitic question- > > who is doing the sadhana?? > this is a good one ! haha > actually this question is in a sense like asking - who am i? > > his reply was basic - > > only at the end of your sadhana can you tell who was the do-er of > sadhana. > > in my opinion this is the right answer becoz sadhana also is > false...but its the last piece of falsehood that comes out of the > Jiva before it is extinguished. > > rgds, > devendra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 > > <snip> > > > swami ramdas was once asked - the classic pseudo advaitic question- > > > > who is doing the sadhana?? > > To whom does the question hold a relevance? > > > > actually this question is in a sense like asking - who am i? > > > > his reply was basic - > > > > only at the end of your sadhana can you tell who was the do-er of > > sadhana. There is no start or end of sadhana. The particular form of the activity in the moment(s) may differ, but there is no stop or start. No beginning, no ending. The alcoholic contemplating a bottle dark rum in a bar, and the meditating lama contemplating his navel on a mountain top, .....both are expressions of sadhana. > > > > in my opinion this is the right answer becoz sadhana also is > > false... There is nothing which is false. Even the identification with the particular which throws up the illusion of the separated " other " , is a nuance of that-which-is,.........in movement. To that-which-is, neither the term " true " or " false " is applicable. >but its the last piece of falsehood that comes out of the > > Jiva before it is extinguished. No Jiva having come into existence, no extinguishing ever happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 AJATAVADA...pure and simple. there is no start or end of dream.but in the dream a person appears and tells you " Watch the Sense I AM " .the question who is the dreamer? - is not valid or helpful while dreaming...it wont occur also. the dream ends and things fall into perspective. the ones claiming to see things in perspective whilst dreaming.......what can be said about them??either they are awakened OR .?! rgds, devendra Nisargadatta , " Sandeep " <sandeep@e...> wrote: > > > > > <snip> > > > > > swami ramdas was once asked - the classic pseudo advaitic question- > > > > > > who is doing the sadhana?? > > > > > > To whom does the question hold a relevance? > > > > > > > > > > > actually this question is in a sense like asking - who am i? > > > > > > his reply was basic - > > > > > > only at the end of your sadhana can you tell who was the do-er of > > > sadhana. > > > > There is no start or end of sadhana. > > The particular form of the activity in the moment(s) may differ, but there is no stop or start. > > No beginning, no ending. > > The alcoholic contemplating a bottle dark rum in a bar, and the meditating lama contemplating his navel on a mountain top, .....both are expressions of sadhana. > > > > > in my opinion this is the right answer becoz sadhana also is > > > false... > > > There is nothing which is false. > > Even the identification with the particular which throws up the illusion of the separated " other " , is a nuance of that-which- is,.........in movement. > > To that-which-is, neither the term " true " or " false " is applicable. > > >but its the last piece of falsehood that comes out of the > > > Jiva before it is extinguished. > > > > No Jiva having come into existence, no extinguishing ever happens. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Hey Devendra, I am listening to you! You say: >but its the last piece of falsehood that comes out of the >Jiva before it is extinguished. The problem with sadhana, as I see it: it has to be extinguished by the one who is doing sadhana himself. But the one who is doing sadhana is usually eager to progress. Another pitfall. Those who I have met and who have " arrived " all said: when " it " happened it was clear that all the previous search has been in the wrong direction... " it " had been here all the time... " it " is not something that can be " attained " ... Thats my feeling too... Therefor I have quoted this zen story of the lion who thinks he is a sheep. I am saying all this after 35 years of sadhana... Now you all go and hammer on me false Balsekarish warrior! Go! Im ready... and what am I preaching here?!... still unenlightened and maybe forever... dont listen to me! ... Better tell me, what sadhanas shall I do? I dont know any more... tell me... Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 got you steve...agree in a way.. it's the ajata vs vivarta thing..but actually it not vs... it like, vivarta is useful for the kid...ajata for the adult both have their places...and in spirtuality 99.999% of the world is a kid..THERE WERE A FEW ADULTS IN THE PAST CENTURY..can be counted on the fingertips... the point is we are somehow made to do sadhana...remember we are do- er and non-do-ers at once.... it has to be done for its own joy.bring in expectation & the joy is gone.its a burden then.in evrything it holds true..more so in the interior life it is not something that can be attained ..there is no linear law..there is no formula that x years and you're done:-))but these very thoughts if they make one indolent are poison...walk we must..when exhaustion will come then we shall see...but exhaustion wont come without walk.... " IT " wont come becoz of anyhting..by definition it cant " come " becoz of anything..... " IT " will come inspite of the Walk not becoz of it.... but if " IT " has to be approached thru S-T-Cause the answer for the mind that asks repeatedly - what shud it do?? is this-- DO sadhana. and are we not in s-t-cause ...can it be denied??? rgds, devendra Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > Hey Devendra, I am listening to you! > > You say: > >but its the last piece of falsehood that comes out of the > >Jiva before it is extinguished. > > The problem with sadhana, as I see it: it has to be extinguished by > the one who is doing sadhana himself. But the one who is doing sadhana > is usually eager to progress. Another pitfall. > > Those who I have met and who have " arrived " all said: when " it " > happened it was clear that all the previous search has been in the > wrong direction... " it " had been here all the time... " it " is not > something that can be " attained " ... Thats my feeling too... Therefor I > have quoted this zen story of the lion who thinks he is a sheep. > > I am saying all this after 35 years of sadhana... Now you all go and > hammer on me false Balsekarish warrior! Go! Im ready... and what am I > preaching here?!... still unenlightened and maybe forever... dont > listen to me! ... Better tell me, what sadhanas shall I do? I dont > know any more... tell me... > > Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > Hey Devendra, I am listening to you! > > You say: > >but its the last piece of falsehood that comes out of the > >Jiva before it is extinguished. > > The problem with sadhana, as I see it: it has to be extinguished by > the one who is doing sadhana himself. But the one who is doing sadhana > is usually eager to progress. Another pitfall. > > Those who I have met and who have " arrived " all said: when " it " > happened it was clear that all the previous search has been in the > wrong direction... " it " had been here all the time... " it " is not > something that can be " attained " ... Thats my feeling too... Therefor I > have quoted this zen story of the lion who thinks he is a sheep. > > I am saying all this after 35 years of sadhana... Now you all go and > hammer on me false Balsekarish warrior! Go! Im ready... and what am I > preaching here?!... still unenlightened and maybe forever... dont > listen to me! ... Better tell me, what sadhanas shall I do? I dont > know any more... tell me... > > Stefan ********************************** Wonderful you are in the path it self. Sadhana it self. God is sadhana. You are sadhana. etc. Enter the Divine bliss of communion with God. There you loose yourself (the ego)and you are one with All you see al you are all you understand all. You become all. You truly Love all. Without any psycho-identification of your ego. You Love above your Ego you simply Love. Without thinking! Do you realy think Jesus loved humanity for the Joke of it! he ended crucified??? Love " is " Love. Alberto, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Alberto, I should be happy about those things you are writing to me. But instead they are making my tears fall. I dont know where to go, I dont know what to do, I dont know what to say... How shall I enter the devine bliss? Is it not so that it will come whenever it wants... if it ever wants? Love Stefan Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > Wonderful you are in the path it self. Sadhana it self. God is > sadhana. You are sadhana. etc. Enter the Divine bliss of communion > with God. There you loose yourself (the ego)and you are one with All > you see al you are all you understand all. You become all. You truly > Love all. Without any psycho-identification of your ego. You Love > above your Ego you simply Love. Without thinking! > > Do you realy think Jesus loved humanity for the Joke of it! he ended > crucified??? Love " is " Love. > > Alberto, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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