Guest guest Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 It does not require belief to know that relative to one's body temperature .....fire is hot......and ice is cold.....or that an angry dog.... is good to avoid.... " Belief " comes into play only when the veracity of a concept is in question...such as: I believe there is a god...or I believe that the Republicans are right. Belief can only involve conceptual speculations and opinions......and always floats in a sea of doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> wrote: > > Hi Toombaru, > > > > > > I know what you mean, but.... > > > > > > > > > > " Cruelly " is a loaded word. > > > > I really don´t think so! > > > > > > Have you ever seen a cat " play " with a mouse? > > > > Is the cat aware of its apparent cruelness? > > > > > > .....or a pack of wolves dispatch an elk? > > > > or, the wolves? > > > > > ...........or Kali..........snatch up a baby? > > > > or Kali? > > > > or Dr. Mengele, Auschwitz, a november morning, during an ºin vivo > > dissectionº? > > > > No-body had a choice! > > > > But, who was aware of it? > > > > > > awareness itself .....................and the " vividissected " child. Do you see now the meaning of cruelty? Kip Almazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> > wrote: > > > Hi Toombaru, > > > > > > > > > I know what you mean, but.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Cruelly " is a loaded word. > > > > > > I really don´t think so! > > > > > > > > Have you ever seen a cat " play " with a mouse? > > > > > > Is the cat aware of its apparent cruelness? > > > > > > > > .....or a pack of wolves dispatch an elk? > > > > > > or, the wolves? > > > > > > > ...........or Kali..........snatch up a baby? > > > > > > or Kali? > > > > > > or Dr. Mengele, Auschwitz, a november morning, during an ºin > vivo > > > dissectionº? > > > > > > No-body had a choice! > > > > > > But, who was aware of it? > > > > > > > > > > > > awareness itself > > > > ....................and the " vividissected " child. .......was vividissected by God himself. > > > Do you see now the meaning of cruelty? " Cruelty " .....implies intent......intent implies volition..... The word.....cruelty.......is meaningless...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> > > wrote: > > > > Hi Toombaru, > > > > > > > > > > > > I know what you mean, but.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Cruelly " is a loaded word. > > > > > > > > I really don´t think so! > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever seen a cat " play " with a mouse? > > > > > > > > Is the cat aware of its apparent cruelness? > > > > > > > > > > .....or a pack of wolves dispatch an elk? > > > > > > > > or, the wolves? > > > > > > > > > ...........or Kali..........snatch up a baby? > > > > > > > > or Kali? > > > > > > > > or Dr. Mengele, Auschwitz, a november morning, during an ºin > > vivo > > > > dissectionº? > > > > > > > > No-body had a choice! > > > > > > > > But, who was aware of it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > awareness itself > > > > > > > > ....................and the " vividissected " child. > > > > ......was vividissected by God himself. > > > > > > > Do you see now the meaning of cruelty? > > > > " Cruelty " .....implies intent......intent implies volition..... > > The word.....cruelty.......is meaningless...... What bull, Toom! If someone would torture one of your grandchildren, will cruelty still have no meaning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " > <kipalmazy> > > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Toombaru, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I know what you mean, but.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Cruelly " is a loaded word. > > > > > > > > > > I really don´t think so! > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever seen a cat " play " with a mouse? > > > > > > > > > > Is the cat aware of its apparent cruelness? > > > > > > > > > > > > .....or a pack of wolves dispatch an elk? > > > > > > > > > > or, the wolves? > > > > > > > > > > > ...........or Kali..........snatch up a baby? > > > > > > > > > > or Kali? > > > > > > > > > > or Dr. Mengele, Auschwitz, a november morning, during an ºin > > > vivo > > > > > dissectionº? > > > > > > > > > > No-body had a choice! > > > > > > > > > > But, who was aware of it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > awareness itself > > > > > > > > > > > > ....................and the " vividissected " child. > > > > > > > > ......was vividissected by God himself. > > > > > > > > > > > Do you see now the meaning of cruelty? > > > > > > > > " Cruelty " .....implies intent......intent implies volition..... > > > > The word.....cruelty.......is meaningless...... > > What bull, Toom! If someone would torture one of your grandchildren, > will cruelty still have no meaning? It would only be relative to a me-ness......an identified supposition................ Can the people in your dream last night be cruel?....... I quess that they can.....in a way......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 --- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > awareness itself > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....................and the " vividissected " child. > > > > > > > > > > > > ......was vividissected by God himself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you see now the meaning of cruelty? > > > > > > > > > > > > " Cruelty " .....implies intent......intent implies volition..... > > > > > > The word.....cruelty.......is meaningless...... > > > > What bull, Toom! If someone would torture one of your grandchildren, > > will cruelty still have no meaning? > > > > It would only be relative to a me-ness......an identified supposition................ > > Can the people in your dream last night be cruel?....... > > I guess that they can.....in a way......... P: Yes, they can. And that's a crucial point in not getting lost in the advaita landscape. Suffering has the same painful quality in dreams, that it has in the waking state. Suffering transcend the concepts of real and unreal. Suffering and pain can't not be defused by labeling them as illusory. Suffering only loses its sting when the 'I feeling' is not there. So the Buddha said: " There is suffering, but no sufferer is to be found. There is the Way, but no one walks on it. " Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > awareness itself > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ....................and the " vividissected " child. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ......was vividissected by God himself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you see now the meaning of cruelty? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Cruelty " .....implies intent......intent implies volition..... > > > > > > > > The word.....cruelty.......is meaningless...... > > > > > > What bull, Toom! If someone would torture one of your > grandchildren, > > > will cruelty still have no meaning? > > > > > > > > It would only be relative to a me-ness......an identified > supposition................ > > > > Can the people in your dream last night be cruel?....... > > > > I guess that they can.....in a way......... > > P: Yes, they can. And that's a crucial point in not > getting lost in the advaita landscape. Suffering has > the same painful quality in dreams, that it has in > the waking state. Suffering transcend the concepts > of real and unreal. Suffering and pain can't not > be defused by labeling them as illusory. Suffering only > loses its sting when the 'I feeling' is not there. > So the Buddha said: " There is suffering, but no > sufferer is to be found. There is the Way, but > no one walks on it. " > > Pete I agree with this, Pete. When the suffering stings so much, and cannot be denied, but then, somehow, some way, you are reminded; and each time, die a little death...the suffering loses its sting, and the Infinite Heart opens just a little more. ~freyja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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