Guest guest Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 Everything we look at is already dead, sort of. If you, for example, look at an apple two meters away from you on a table, what you see is an image of how that apple looked in the past (a very recent past, but yet [similar to when you look at a star; that star is an image of how the star looked years ago, because light takes time to travel from the star to your eyes]). If another person also looks at the same apple standing so that the distance between the other person and the apple is also two meters, then you see the same past image as the other person sees. But if the other person moves so that the distance between the apple and the other person is greater than two meters and you remain two meters away from the apple, then the apple you will see is a more recent image of the past apple than the other person sees. Then the other person takes a few step closer to the apple, grabs it, and begins chewing on it. You say: " Hey, how dare you, that was *my* apple! " The other person looks at you with a kind of guilty expression: " I'm sorry, it's just that this experiment made me so hungry... " ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ LOL, Al! Funny, isn´t it. It is amazing to see which results we can get by applying rigurously physics to some of our activities. The guy, who took the apple, for example. The visual information about the apple reached the cortex much more faster than the tactile impulses about " taking " the apple. The visual information, now integrated, got queued for a while, somewhere, until the tactile impulses got transported & processed. All that, to create the feeling and illusion of simultaneity and enable a purposive coordination. To apprehend " das Ding an sich " by our senses is impossible. We juggle with " Gestalten " and precisely on account of that, we can´t draw conclusions about " das Ding an sich " . I can´t say, if it´s alive or death and you neither, in my opinion. And, that´s nothing new. Actually, more than 3.000 years old insight. Parmenides and a couple of other sophists agonised on that subjects. Consciousness and phenomenalty co-arised. Both deal with concepts on, ideas about, notions, perceptions, associations, visions, illusions and imagination. Once Al has died, nothing of that will remain, for Al. But, the show will go on. The yellow submarine will continue to cross the seas, at least, as long there is enough combustible. To judge phenomenalty is as absurd as, to judge " das Ding an sich " , the Noumenon, God or whatsoever. It is only natural, that our sort consciousness, impregnated by desire, created the Other as antipode, as storehouse for expectations. There was no choice. God is a human creation. The Noumenon doesn´t exist and, therefore it is not apprehensible by the " Gestalt " , which created it as well as, Santa Claus, isn´t tangible. No matter how much guys on Christmas dress up like Santa Claus. Once exhausted all escape-routes, every form of escapism, what remains is only you. Actually, the thing you were running away from all the time. And, if you go back in time; there was once a time from which you don´t have now any memories, despite the fact that you were already born. The naked feeling I am. Overwhelming. Endless, timeless, spaceless. Breathtaking, staggeringly aware of everything and nothing. Not aware of itself, as a self. That´s the ground upon which you constructed, created the world and the universe, including me and all the others on this board, who are talking to you now. Including your fears and expectations. And, if you go one step back, what was there, before you were born or even conceived as possibility? Just, pure potentiality, and since then, nothing has really changed. You, me and nobody else has or had control over it. Nothing really happened, not even a bubble in the ocean. This inmensity is unfathomable and described in many buddhistic scriptures in gorgeous pictures and simultanously the epitome of emptiness. So, it is perhaps a little like ºforgetting, what you have forgottenº, inaccessible through and by recalling or memory. The only thing I can do, is to stop to forget and that was only possible by the testimony of people like Buddha, Jesus, Ramana or Niz and " with a little help of my friends " . The expression of love. The utterance, that there is nothing to fear. on a rainy sunday Kip Almazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> wrote: > > Everything we look at is already dead, sort of. If you, for example, > look at an apple two meters away from you on a table, what you see is > an image of how that apple looked in the past (a very recent past, > but yet [similar to when you look at a star; that star is an image of > how the star looked years ago, because light takes time to travel > from the star to your eyes]). If another person also looks at the > same apple standing so that the distance between the other person and > the apple is also two meters, then you see the same past image as the > other person sees. But if the other person moves so that the distance > between the apple and the other person is greater than two meters and > you remain two meters away from the apple, then the apple you will > see is a more recent image of the past apple than the other person > sees. Then the other person takes a few step closer to the apple, > grabs it, and begins chewing on it. You say: " Hey, how dare you, that > was *my* apple! " The other person looks at you with a kind of guilty > expression: " I'm sorry, it's just that this experiment made me so > hungry... " > > ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬ > > LOL, Al! Funny, isn´t it. It is amazing to see which results we can > get by applying rigurously physics to some of our activities. The > guy, who took the apple, for example. The visual information about > the apple reached the cortex much more faster than the tactile > impulses about " taking " the apple. The visual information, now > integrated, got queued for a while, somewhere, until the tactile > impulses got transported & processed. All that, to create the > feeling and illusion of simultaneity and enable a purposive > coordination. > > > To apprehend " das Ding an sich " by our senses is impossible. We > juggle with " Gestalten " and precisely on account of that, we can´t > draw conclusions about " das Ding an sich " . I can´t say, if it´s > alive or death and you neither, in my opinion. And, that´s nothing > new. Actually, more than 3.000 years old insight. Parmenides and a > couple of other sophists agonised on that subjects. > > > Consciousness and phenomenalty co-arised. Both deal with concepts > on, ideas about, notions, perceptions, associations, visions, > illusions and imagination. Once Al has died, nothing of that will > remain, for Al. But, the show will go on. The yellow submarine will > continue to cross the seas, at least, as long there is enough > combustible. Many spiritual teachers say that the world is in you, not you in the world. I have even heard Deepak Chopra say this. This means that when I die the world will possibly not continue without me, for there is perhaps no world outside of myself. > > > To judge phenomenalty is as absurd as, to judge " das Ding an sich " , > the Noumenon, God or whatsoever. It is only natural, that our sort > consciousness, impregnated by desire, created the Other as antipode, > as storehouse for expectations. There was no choice. God is a human > creation. The Noumenon doesn´t exist and, therefore it is not > apprehensible by the " Gestalt " , which created it as well as, Santa > Claus, isn´t tangible. No matter how much guys on Christmas dress up > like Santa Claus. > > > Once exhausted all escape-routes, every form of escapism, what > remains is only you. Actually, the thing you were running away from > all the time. And, if you go back in time; there was once a time > from which you don´t have now any memories, despite the fact that > you were already born. The naked feeling I am. Overwhelming. > Endless, timeless, spaceless. Breathtaking, staggeringly aware of > everything and nothing. Not aware of itself, as a self. That´s the > ground upon which you constructed, created the world and the > universe, including me and all the others on this board, who are > talking to you now. Including your fears and expectations. > > > > And, if you go one step back, what was there, before you were born > or even conceived as possibility? Just, pure potentiality, and since > then, nothing has really changed. You, me and nobody else has or had > control over it. Nothing really happened, not even a bubble in the > ocean. This inmensity is unfathomable and described in many > buddhistic scriptures in gorgeous pictures and simultanously the > epitome of emptiness. Infinity, as in pure potentiality, is a strange thing. The smallest point in space in our universe containing an infinite number of other universes, and our universe itself being only a tiny point in infinity... > > > > So, it is perhaps a little like ºforgetting, what you have > forgottenº, inaccessible through and by recalling or memory. The > only thing I can do, is to stop to forget and that was only possible > by the testimony of people like Buddha, Jesus, Ramana or Niz > and " with a little help of my friends " . The expression of love. The > utterance, that there is nothing to fear. > > > > on a rainy sunday > Kip Almazy I must add, as a comment on my post, that when we look at something, then light has the appearance of taking time to travel, but quantum mechanics has shown the non-local aspect of particles, so there is also a direct 'connection' between all things that is not dependent on distance. So we are not really looking at a dead past, but rater looking at an alive local/non-local wholeness. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 > like Santa Claus. > > > Once exhausted all escape-routes, every form of escapism, what > remains is only you. Actually, the thing you were running away from > all the time. oh ! hehe Era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 > > > > > >K: Once exhausted all escape-routes, every form of escapism, what > > remains is only you. Actually, the thing you were running away from > > all the time. And, if you go back in time; there was once a time > > from which you don´t have now any memories, despite the fact that > > you were already born. The naked feeling I am. Overwhelming. > > Endless, timeless, spaceless. Breathtaking, staggeringly aware of > > everything and nothing. Not aware of itself, as a self. That´s the > > ground upon which you constructed, created the world and the > > universe, including me and all the others on this board, who are > > talking to you now. Including your fears and expectations. > > Al: I must add, as a comment on my post, that when we look at something, > then light has the appearance of taking time to travel, but quantum > mechanics has shown the non-local aspect of particles, so there is > also a direct 'connection' between all things that is not dependent > on distance. So we are not really looking at a dead past, but rater > looking at an alive local/non-local wholeness. > P: Oh Boy! Al, Kip just put a plate of food in front of you, and you didn't even notice, you keep on discussing the menu. Read again his paragraph above. Let me chew it a little for you. On that naked feeling of being alive, all your thoughts churn around hiding it from view. Close your eyes for a while, Al, shift your attention from thoughts to that feeling of aliveness that is always there. If you do that every day for a few minutes, thoughts will slow down, they could even stop for a few seconds and something ineffable, unlimited could be intuit behind the feeling of beingness. If that happens, the job is done. When thoughts come back they won't have the power to deceive any longer. They would be like a dust devil dancing in the void. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 > > > P: Oh Boy! Al, Kip just put a plate of food in front of you, and > you didn't even notice, you keep on discussing the menu. > Read again his paragraph above. Let me chew it a little for you. > > On that naked feeling of being alive, all your thoughts churn around > hiding it from view. Close your eyes for a while, Al, shift your > attention from thoughts to that feeling of aliveness that is always > there. If you do that every day for a few minutes, thoughts will slow > down, they could even stop for a few seconds and something ineffable, > unlimited could be intuit behind the feeling of beingness. If that > happens, the job is done. When thoughts come back they won't > have the power to deceive any longer. > They would be like a dust devil dancing in the void. > > Pete .......fresh air.....moving in this fetid...old prison....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >K: Once exhausted all escape-routes, every form of escapism, what > > > remains is only you. Actually, the thing you were running away > from > > > all the time. And, if you go back in time; there was once a time > > > from which you don´t have now any memories, despite the fact that > > > you were already born. The naked feeling I am. Overwhelming. > > > Endless, timeless, spaceless. Breathtaking, staggeringly aware of > > > everything and nothing. Not aware of itself, as a self. That´s > the > > > ground upon which you constructed, created the world and the > > > universe, including me and all the others on this board, who are > > > talking to you now. Including your fears and expectations. > > > > > Al: I must add, as a comment on my post, that when we look at > something, > > then light has the appearance of taking time to travel, but quantum > > mechanics has shown the non-local aspect of particles, so there is > > also a direct 'connection' between all things that is not dependent > > on distance. So we are not really looking at a dead past, but rater > > looking at an alive local/non-local wholeness. > > > P: Oh Boy! Al, Kip just put a plate of food in front of you, and > you didn't even notice, you keep on discussing the menu. > Read again his paragraph above. Let me chew it a little for you. > > On that naked feeling of being alive, all your thoughts churn around > hiding it from view. Close your eyes for a while, Al, shift your > attention from thoughts to that feeling of aliveness that is always > there. If you do that every day for a few minutes, thoughts will slow > down, they could even stop for a few seconds and something ineffable, > unlimited could be intuit behind the feeling of beingness. If that > happens, the job is done. When thoughts come back they won't > have the power to deceive any longer. > They would be like a dust devil dancing in the void. > > Pete Thanks Pete. I will try the practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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