Guest guest Posted October 7, 2004 Report Share Posted October 7, 2004 I have just finished " I am That. " I have a question. When Nisaragadatta says that consciousness is not reborn as consciousness, he appears to be denying reincarnation. But, does Nisaragadatta reject " rebirth " in the Buddhist tradition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Nisargadatta , eliasfardo wrote: > > > I have just finished " I am That. " I have a question. When > Nisaragadatta says that consciousness is not reborn as > consciousness, he appears to be denying reincarnation. But, does > Nisaragadatta reject " rebirth " in the Buddhist tradition? What do you suppose that he means when he refers to the individual as: " The child of a barren woman " ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , eliasfardo wrote: > > > > > > I have just finished " I am That. " I have a question. When > > Nisaragadatta says that consciousness is not reborn as > > consciousness, he appears to be denying reincarnation. But, does > > Nisaragadatta reject " rebirth " in the Buddhist tradition? > > > What do you suppose that he means when he refers to the individual as: " The child of a barren woman " ? Barren means not producing offspring. Do you believe the Mother of All produces offspring? She _is_ the All. See? /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Dear Elias, As far as I remember in his earlier years Niz semmed to have believed in reincarnation but in his later years he absolutely denied it. But let me ask you, why is this question so important for you ? As I understood Niz, the main theme was to find the " I Am " and then to transcend it and the question of rebirth had not weight and value at all. Werner Nisargadatta , eliasfardo wrote: > > > I have just finished " I am That. " I have a question. When > Nisaragadatta says that consciousness is not reborn as > consciousness, he appears to be denying reincarnation. But, does > Nisaragadatta reject " rebirth " in the Buddhist tradition? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , eliasfardo wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I have just finished " I am That. " I have a question. When > > > > Nisaragadatta says that consciousness is not reborn as > > > > consciousness, he appears to be denying reincarnation. But, does > > > > Nisaragadatta reject " rebirth " in the Buddhist tradition? > > > > > > > > > What do you suppose that he means when he refers to the individual > > as: " The child of a barren woman " ? > > > > Barren means not producing offspring. Do you believe the Mother of > > All produces offspring? She _is_ the All. See? > > > > /AL > > > " You " .......as the child of a barren woman.......were never born.......the question of rebirth......has no practical significance..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 I did not maintain all the references, but there were several times when he did mention being reborn. I am not going to go back to find them. <But let me ask you, why is this question so important for you ?> Nisaragadatta says to question everything, to discover the false. That is all I am doing, questioning. My interest in part is academic. But it is also practical. I have Buddhist friends who believe in rebirth, which is different from reincarnation. I could determine from " I am That " that Nisaragadatta denied the concept of reincarnation. But, one can deny that, and still accept rebirth. My question makes that distinction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Nisargadatta , eliasfardo wrote: > > > I did not maintain all the references, but there were several times > when he did mention being reborn. I am not going to go back to find > them. > > <But let me ask you, why is this question so important for you ?> > > Nisaragadatta says to question everything, to discover the false. > That is all I am doing, questioning. > > My interest in part is academic. But it is also practical. I have > Buddhist friends who believe in rebirth, which is different from > reincarnation. I could determine from " I am That " that > Nisaragadatta denied the concept of reincarnation. But, one can > deny that, and still accept rebirth. My question makes that > distinction. Within the the concept of rebirth or reincarnation.....is the tacit acceptance of something or someone that is in possession of a separate...autonomous,,,existential reality....that is not only born.....but then reborn...... This illusion of " self " emerges mysteriously and concurrently with its own dream bubble.........dances for a while..........and ....once its alloted time has expired....disappears back into the emptiness.......never to be seen again........ Why it would want to live forever.......is a mystery.......... toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Dear Elias, What I am still reflecting is why did you ask this question you entered this list with ? Why are you interested what Niz is telling about rebirth, what is your real motivation for it ? Couldn't it be that in some way you fear getting alienated from your Buddhist friends when feeling attracted to Niz and he rejects the idea of rebirth ? Which means you fear to be left alone, you fear to have to stand on your own feet to find out which is much more arduous than just leaning on some friends and sharing their beliefs. Werner Nisargadatta , eliasfardo wrote: > > > I did not maintain all the references, but there were several times > when he did mention being reborn. I am not going to go back to find > them. > > <But let me ask you, why is this question so important for you ?> > > Nisaragadatta says to question everything, to discover the false. > That is all I am doing, questioning. > > My interest in part is academic. But it is also practical. I have > Buddhist friends who believe in rebirth, which is different from > reincarnation. I could determine from " I am That " that > Nisaragadatta denied the concept of reincarnation. But, one can > deny that, and still accept rebirth. My question makes that > distinction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Dear Elias, > > What I am still reflecting is why did you ask this question you > entered this list with ? Why are you interested what Niz is telling > about rebirth, what is your real motivation for it ? > > Couldn't it be that in some way you fear getting alienated from your > Buddhist friends when feeling attracted to Niz and he rejects the > idea of rebirth ? Which means you fear to be left alone, you fear to > have to stand on your own feet to find out which is much more arduous > than just leaning on some friends and sharing their beliefs. > > Werner > > That which motivates you to inquire....is nothing other then the infinite-chain-of- causation......It is THAT which is inquiring.....and THAT which is answering.......sometimes it misleads ITS self........... .........isn't THAT a kick in the ass? toombaru > Nisargadatta , eliasfardo wrote: > > > > > > I did not maintain all the references, but there were several times > > when he did mention being reborn. I am not going to go back to > find > > them. > > > > <But let me ask you, why is this question so important for you ?> > > > > Nisaragadatta says to question everything, to discover the false. > > That is all I am doing, questioning. > > > > My interest in part is academic. But it is also practical. I have > > Buddhist friends who believe in rebirth, which is different from > > reincarnation. I could determine from " I am That " that > > Nisaragadatta denied the concept of reincarnation. But, one can > > deny that, and still accept rebirth. My question makes that > > distinction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Guys, all I did was ask a simple question. I don't need advice or analysis. I just asked a question. Don't go second guessing why I am asking, because you don't know me. There is a difference between reincarnation and rebirth. I know he rejected reincarnation. Did he also reject rebirth? That is the whole of my inquiry. If you have the answer, fine. If you don't, fine. But, if you don't want to answer the question, or are unable to answer the question, please don't bother to repeat Nis to me. I get it. I am just asking what he believed. I am not taking a position for or against anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2004 Report Share Posted October 8, 2004 Nisargadatta , eliasfardo wrote: > > Guys, all I did was ask a simple question. I don't need advice or > analysis. I just asked a question. Don't go second guessing why I > am asking, because you don't know me. > > There is a difference between reincarnation and rebirth. I know he > rejected reincarnation. Did he also reject rebirth? \ Yes. That is the > whole of my inquiry. If you have the answer, fine. If you don't, > fine. But, if you don't want to answer the question, or are unable > to answer the question, please don't bother to repeat Nis to me. I > get it. I am just asking what he believed. I am not taking a > position for or against anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , eliasfardo wrote: > > > > Guys, all I did was ask a simple question. I don't need advice or > > analysis. I just asked a question. Don't go second guessing why I > > am asking, because you don't know me. > > > > There is a difference between reincarnation and rebirth. I know he > > rejected reincarnation. Did he also reject rebirth? > > \ > > > Yes. Namaste, All of these sages pay some validity to rebirth as long as one thinks one is the body. It is only the tendencies and attributes that reincarnate anway not the personality,,,,,,,and ultimately in true reality there is no I you or the world..........ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , eliasfardo wrote: > > > > > > Guys, all I did was ask a simple question. I don't need advice > or > > > analysis. I just asked a question. Don't go second guessing > why I > > > am asking, because you don't know me. > > > > > > There is a difference between reincarnation and rebirth. I know > he > > > rejected reincarnation. Did he also reject rebirth? > > > > \ > > > > > > Yes. > > Namaste, > > All of these sages pay some validity to rebirth as long as one > thinks one is the body. It is only the tendencies and attributes > that reincarnate anway not the personality,,,,,,,and ultimately in > true reality there is no I you or the world..........ONS..Tony. Tony, Could you tell us what tendencies and attributes are again? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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