Guest guest Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Toombaru wrote: >There is nothing behind the mask. hi... who was writing this sentence then, your mask? S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Toombaru wrote: > >There is nothing behind the mask. > > hi... who was writing this sentence then, your mask? > > S. Oh you silly boy........masks can't write. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > > > Toombaru wrote: > > >There is nothing behind the mask. > > > > hi... who was writing this sentence then, your mask? > > > > S. > > > > Oh you silly boy........masks can't write. so, who wrote this sentence then, and ... avoided the question? S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > Toombaru wrote: > > > >There is nothing behind the mask. > > > > > > hi... who was writing this sentence then, your mask? > > > > > > S. > > > > > > > > Oh you silly boy........masks can't write. > > so, who wrote this sentence then, and ... avoided the question? > > S. Consciousness itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Toombaru wrote: > > > > >There is nothing behind the mask. > > > > > > > > hi... who was writing this sentence then, your mask? > > > > > > > > S. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh you silly boy........masks can't write. > > > > so, who wrote this sentence then, and ... avoided the question? > > > > S. > > > > Consciousness itself. Ha, ha! Pedalling back! So consciousness is behind the mask, you say now. So what is behind consciousness? Let's spin the loop! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Toombaru wrote: >There is nothing behind the mask. hi... who was writing this sentence then, your mask? Toombaru wrote: >Oh you silly boy........masks can't write. so, who wrote this sentence then, and ... avoided the question? Toombaru wrote: >Consciousness itself. Does this mean consciousness is behind the mask? S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Toombaru wrote: > >There is nothing behind the mask. > > hi... who was writing this sentence then, your mask? > > Toombaru wrote: > >Oh you silly boy........masks can't write. > > so, who wrote this sentence then, and ... avoided the question? > > Toombaru wrote: > >Consciousness itself. > > Does this mean consciousness is behind the mask?.... .... or one consciousness behind all masks? ... .... or are the masks themselves consciousness ... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > wrote: > > > > Toombaru wrote: > > >There is nothing behind the mask. > > > > hi... who was writing this sentence then, your mask? > > > > Toombaru wrote: > > >Oh you silly boy........masks can't write. > > > > so, who wrote this sentence then, and ... avoided the question? > > > > Toombaru wrote: > > >Consciousness itself. > > > > Does this mean consciousness is behind the mask?.... > ... or one consciousness behind all masks? ... > ... or are the masks themselves consciousness ... > > ? " All there is.....is consciousness. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Toombaru wrote: > > > >There is nothing behind the mask. > > > > > > hi... who was writing this sentence then, your mask? > > > > > > Toombaru wrote: > > > >Oh you silly boy........masks can't write. > > > > > > so, who wrote this sentence then, and ... avoided the question? > > > > > > Toombaru wrote: > > > >Consciousness itself. > > > > > > Does this mean consciousness is behind the mask?.... > > ... or one consciousness behind all masks? ... > > ... or are the masks themselves consciousness ... > > > > ? > > > " All there is.....is consciousness. " There are no waves.........no rivers.......no oceans........no clouds........no rain or snow...... ...........there is only water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Toombaru: >There is nothing behind the mask. Me: >hi... who was writing this sentence then, your mask? Toombaru: >Oh you silly boy........masks can't write. Me: >so, who wrote this sentence then, and ... avoided the question? Toombaru: >Consciousness itself. Me: >Does this mean consciousness is behind the mask?.... .... or one consciousness behind all masks? ... .... or are the masks themselves consciousness ... Toombaru: > " All there is.....is consciousness. " Me: Good. But then, why did you write that behind the masks is nothing? Does this mean you are saying: consciousness is nothing? S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Toombaru: > >There is nothing behind the mask. > > Me: > >hi... who was writing this sentence then, your mask? > > Toombaru: > >Oh you silly boy........masks can't write. > > Me: > >so, who wrote this sentence then, and ... avoided the question? > > Toombaru: > >Consciousness itself. > > Me: > >Does this mean consciousness is behind the mask?.... > ... or one consciousness behind all masks? ... > ... or are the masks themselves consciousness ... > > Toombaru: > > " All there is.....is consciousness. " > > Me: > Good. But then, why did you write that behind the masks is nothing? > Does this mean you are saying: consciousness is nothing? > > S. How can a fragment of consciousness......deny consciousness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > > > Toombaru: > > >There is nothing behind the mask. > > > > Me: > > >hi... who was writing this sentence then, your mask? > > > > Toombaru: > > >Oh you silly boy........masks can't write. > > > > Me: > > >so, who wrote this sentence then, and ... avoided the question? > > > > Toombaru: > > >Consciousness itself. > > > > Me: > > >Does this mean consciousness is behind the mask?.... > > ... or one consciousness behind all masks? ... > > ... or are the masks themselves consciousness ... > > > > Toombaru: > > > " All there is.....is consciousness. " > > > > Me: > > Good. But then, why did you write that behind the masks is nothing? > > Does this mean you are saying: consciousness is nothing? > > > > S. > > > > How can a fragment of consciousness......deny consciousness? ...........a river can deny the existence of water..........but it is only water talking.........a cloud can proclaim the non-reality of water........but it is the cloud .......itself......... that is unreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 11, 2004 Report Share Posted October 11, 2004 >Toombaru: >There is nothing behind the mask. >Me: >hi... who was writing this sentence then, your mask? >Toombaru: >Oh you silly boy........masks can't write. >Me: >so, who wrote this sentence then, and ... avoided the question? >Toombaru: >Consciousness itself. >Me: >Does this mean consciousness is behind the mask?.... > ... or one consciousness behind all masks? ... > ... or are the masks themselves consciousness ... >Toombaru: > " All there is.....is consciousness. " >Me: >Good. But then, why did you write that behind the masks is nothing? >Does this mean you are saying: consciousness is nothing? Toombarus: >How can a fragment of consciousness......deny consciousness? Me: Hey, Toombaru, this would have been my next question... You are great! So, why... why this contradiction? Why do you write: " There is nothing behind the mask. " and " All there is.....is consciousness. " ? Is not the first statement like if consciousness would deny itself? I have often said to you: there is no " nothing " ... maybe you can see my point now... S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > >Toombaru: > >There is nothing behind the mask. > > >Me: > >hi... who was writing this sentence then, your mask? > > >Toombaru: > >Oh you silly boy........masks can't write. > > >Me: > >so, who wrote this sentence then, and ... avoided the question? > > >Toombaru: > >Consciousness itself. > > >Me: > >Does this mean consciousness is behind the mask?.... > > ... or one consciousness behind all masks? ... > > ... or are the masks themselves consciousness ... > > >Toombaru: > > " All there is.....is consciousness. " > > >Me: > >Good. But then, why did you write that behind the masks is nothing? > >Does this mean you are saying: consciousness is nothing? > > Toombarus: > >How can a fragment of consciousness......deny consciousness? > > Me: > Hey, Toombaru, this would have been my next question... You are great! > So, why... why this contradiction? Why do you write: > " There is nothing behind the mask. " > and > " All there is.....is consciousness. " ? Ramesh has written that he read " The Open Secret " by Wei Wu Wei over 100 times. WWW quite often says that there is nothing but the dream.....and nothing beyond it..... The term " consciousness is rather nebulous.....as is the term " dream " ...... The I amness that Nisargadatta refers to as being the only thing that cannot be denied.....seems to be synonymous with....THIS. " Consciousness " is merely a conceptual construct.....a description that emerges within the assumption of duality.......consciousness is not a thing....it is an indescribable flow.....It is only.....THIS....... There is nothing but THIS........ Pondering the possibility that there is nothing behind.......and nothing beyond THIS.........can be a chilling prospect for the indentified entity........ > Is not the first statement like if consciousness would deny itself? > > I have often said to you: there is no " nothing " ... maybe you can see > my point now... > > S. Any " point " or philosophical stance that the " you " could put foreward....or any perspective that the " I " could " see " would be from the locus of accumulated experience of our respective personas...... and pertain only to that...... There is no place ......from which the identified entity can see its self.......From its I-s.......nothing is real........On this side of I-am......it is only the dream.......and there is nothing.......outside of the dream.......... toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: >Ramesh has written that he read " The Open Secret " by Wei Wu Wei over >100 times. WWW quite often says that there is nothing but the >dream.... and nothing beyond it..... What does this have to do with you or me? I am not interesed in those people, I rather use my own intelligence. Look, this idea already is utterly stupid. If there was nothing but the dream, then it would be senseless to call it a " dream " . Then life would be simply life as it is and it would be the only thing there is. Then the only sensible task would be to live our lives the best we can without wasting our thoughts for any ideas of the " beyond " . Like Sartre was suggesting. >The term " consciousness is rather nebulous... as is the term > " dream " ...... Why nebolous? For me they are pretty clear. >Consciousness " is merely a conceptual construct... a description that >emerges within the assumption of duality... consciousness is not a >thing... it is an indescribable flow... It is only... THIS... Consciousness is consciousness, it is someTHING. For example: it can be experienced that you are conscious. And if you cancle the " you " in this sentence you get consciousness itself. This is non-dual. And when you call consciousness an " incredible flow " you are again obviously talking about someTHING. To say in the same sentence that all this is noTHING is simply senseless, loughable and cannot lead anywhere. If it is nothing then there is no need to think or even talk about " THIS " , " consciousness " , " flow " etc in the first place. Then there is simply nothing, and no need at all for any conceptual construct. >Pondering the possibility that there is nothing behind... .and >nothing beyond THIS... can be a chilling prospect for the >indentified entity... Why that? Is " THIS " not enough? Nisargadatta calls it " consciousness " , " love " , " god " . I think the chilling prospect for the identified entity is to get a sense of " THIS " at all, because the mind simply cannot grasp anything which is non-dual. Now you say: >There is no place ... from which the identified entity can see its >self... From its I-s... nothing is real... On this side of >I-am... it is only the dream... and there is nothing... outside of >the dream... But just a two sentences above you have said: >There is nothing but THIS........ So you should have said " there is nothing but THIS outside of the dream " . But this sounds not so romantic and mysterious, eh? Be honest, you are confused. Can you see it now? If there is NOTHING outside of the dream then there is no dream. Then what is the point in wasting only the slightest enegy for such issues? But if there is " THIS " we are all in a sudden in a completely different situation and it makes very much sense to look for a way out (of the dream). One day you will taste it, you will smell it, just a little bit, and this is a miracle, because it cannot be tasted and smelled by an identified entity, like some hallucinations! No, it is more real than any reality! Haha... And then comes the thirst... Those things have nothing to do with the mind. This would be like washing away blood with blood. You are stuck, because you are trying to understand with your mind. The identified mind cannot get it and you know this. So, you have to leave your mind behind. You think this is impossible. And you are right, as long as you THINK. You have to stand up and look for the people who have realized " this " . They will even find you once you are ready, once you have taken the decicion. When you have looked into the eyes of a master you will not be the same Toombaru again. Never! Don't walk in endless circles that are leading nowhere, your mind is leading you in those circles because it wants you to avoid the truth. Take a decision and be a man. Life is out there. And I am outta here S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 12, 2004 Report Share Posted October 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > >Ramesh has written that he read " The Open Secret " by Wei Wu Wei over > >100 times. WWW quite often says that there is nothing but the > >dream.... and nothing beyond it..... > > What does this have to do with you or me? I am not interesed in those > people, I rather use my own intelligence. There is no such thing as " your own " anything. Look, this idea already is > utterly stupid. All ideas are false. > If there was nothing but the dream, then it would be > senseless to call it a " dream " . Then life would be simply life as it > is and it would be the only thing there is. Then the only sensible > task would be to live our lives the best we can without wasting our > thoughts for any ideas of the " beyond " . There is no autonomous " we " Like Sartre was suggesting. > > >The term " consciousness is rather nebulous... as is the term > > " dream " ...... > > Why nebolous? For me they are pretty clear. For a " me " ......nothing conceptual is clear. > > >Consciousness " is merely a conceptual construct... a description that > >emerges within the assumption of duality... consciousness is not a > >thing... it is an indescribable flow... It is only... THIS... > > Consciousness is consciousness, it is someTHING. For example: it can > be experienced that you are conscious. And if you cancle the " you " in > this sentence you get consciousness itself. This is non-dual. And when > you call consciousness an " incredible flow " you are again obviously > talking about someTHING. To say in the same sentence that all this is > noTHING is simply senseless, loughable and cannot lead anywhere. The assumption of somewhere else.....is part of the dream..... If it > is nothing then there is no need to think or even talk about " THIS " , " You " `have no choice......You will search untill you don't. > " consciousness " , " flow " etc in the first place. Then there > is simply nothing, and no need at all for any conceptual construct. Conceptual constructs are merely the glue that holds the dream together. > > >Pondering the possibility that there is nothing behind... .and > >nothing beyond THIS... can be a chilling prospect for the > >indentified entity... > > Why that? Is " THIS " not enough? Nisargadatta calls it " consciousness " , > " love " , " god " . I think the chilling prospect for the identified entity > is to get a sense of " THIS " at all, because the mind simply cannot > grasp anything which is non-dual. And this " I " that " thinks " ......is exempt from confusion? > > Now you say: > > >There is no place ... from which the identified entity can see its > >self... From its I-s... nothing is real... On this side of > >I-am... it is only the dream... and there is nothing... outside of > >the dream... > > But just a two sentences above you have said: > > >There is nothing but THIS........ > > So you should have said " there is nothing but THIS outside of the > dream " . But this sounds not so romantic and mysterious, eh? > > Be honest, you are confused. Of course I am confused...... Can you see it now? If there is NOTHING > outside of the dream then there is no dream. Then what is the point in > wasting only the slightest enegy for such issues? > You are right....if there is only the dream.......then there is no dream......only THIS > But if there is " THIS " we are all in a sudden in a completely > different situation and it makes very much sense to look for a way out > (of the dream). There is no way out of a prison that does not exist........... > > One day you will taste it, you will smell it, just a little bit, and > this is a miracle, because it cannot be tasted and smelled by an > identified entity, like some hallucinations! No, it is more real than > any reality! Haha... And then comes the thirst... > > Those things have nothing to do with the mind. This would be like > washing away blood with blood. You are stuck, because you are trying > to understand with your mind. It is only mind...attempting to understand mind......just brain cells....wondering what in the hell is going on..... No " I " exists....anywhere..... The identified mind cannot get it and > you know this. There in nothing " to get " .... So, you have to leave your mind behind. While I am at it ......I will also leave my shadow.....behind..... You think this > is impossible. And you are right, as long as you THINK. You have to > stand up and look for the people who have realized " this " . They will > even find you once you are ready, once you have taken the decicion. > When you have looked into the eyes of a master you will not be the > same Toombaru again. Never! Don't walk in endless circles that are > leading nowhere, your mind is leading you in those circles because it > wants you to avoid the truth. Take a decision and be a man. Life is > out there. > > And I am outta here > S. If you're leaving.....can I have your password?.........I may need to change personas if they get too aggressive here..... toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: >If you're leaving... can I have your password?... I may need to >change personas if they get too aggressive here... My password is NISARGADATTA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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