Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > ... > > > > The really nice thing about objects that exist only in the > conceptual realm...is that anybody can " see " them anyway they > want..... > > > > I personally picture Cinderella's dress as being a soft..off > white.......There are some that swear that it is pink or dusty- > rose..... > > > > toombaru > > As long as you are living in the shell of fear implemented by " open " > society you can picture anything you like and still be a puppet > controlled by the ego. Seing true causes of fear is the beginning of > liberation. > > /AL The so called ego does not want liberation.......It wants to be...It wants to be God........If it is liberated......it is dead. " Seek......but do not find " ....is its command....... It is itself......only solifified fear.............It emerges from fear......and disappears into fear...... It is a frighened shadow......frightened of its own shadow....... t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > ... > > > > > > > > I see the ego like a wild tiger, trapped in the spider web of > > > > society. The web is created from the belief of having a vunerable > > > > body which in the context of society is reflected in a belief of > > > > having a vulnerable personal reputation. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > **************************** > > > > > > That is very good but you have to continue your search? You just > > > started something good above if you stop there, you will just have > > > sit in the parking, thinking That is " IT " . > > > > > > Alberto, :0) > > > > We have to recognize the prison we are in an take out power back. > > Instead of being stuck in a web of fear where forces in socitety > > pulls our strings, we have to start using our _own_ minds. People > > talk about free will, and that is an important part of having power, > > but what they often don't see is that they are puppets to mechanical > > fear-based manipulation. > > > > /AL > > > > ...it is a rare puppet indeed...that is able to unfasten the strings that support it and make it move.......I have never seen such a puppet............. > > > > > t. The ego, the puppet, is not who you are - it is a control structure that seems to have a life of its own. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > ... > > > > > > > > > > I see the ego like a wild tiger, trapped in the spider web of > > > > > society. The web is created from the belief of having a > vunerable > > > > > body which in the context of society is reflected in a belief > of > > > > > having a vulnerable personal reputation. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > **************************** > > > > > > > > That is very good but you have to continue your search? You > just > > > > started something good above if you stop there, you will just > have > > > > sit in the parking, thinking That is " IT " . > > > > > > > > Alberto, :0) > > > > > > We have to recognize the prison we are in an take out power back. > > > Instead of being stuck in a web of fear where forces in socitety > > > pulls our strings, we have to start using our _own_ minds. People > > > talk about free will, and that is an important part of having > power, > > > but what they often don't see is that they are puppets to > mechanical > > > fear-based manipulation. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > ...it is a rare puppet indeed...that is able to unfasten the > strings that support it and make it move.......I have never seen such > a puppet............. > > > > > > > > > > t. > > The ego, the puppet, is not who you are - it is a control structure > that seems to have a life of its own. > > /AL I would suggest that this " you " ......is the puppet.....a phantom that is forged within.......and maintains..... a conceptual (dream) world...a house of memories...smoke and mirrors..a tiny bubble...isolated.....in which an entire universe spins...for a time.....and then disappears back into the nothingness..........it can no more see its own assumed reality..... then a whirlpool can see the river........ the how and whyness.........of this will forever remain a mystery........... but I have to stop now.......I'm getting nauseas..............:-0 t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > The ego, the puppet, is not who you are - it is a control structure > > that seems to have a life of its own. > > > > /AL > > > I would suggest that this " you " ......is the puppet.....a phantom that is forged within.......and maintains..... a conceptual (dream) world...a house of memories...smoke and mirrors..a tiny bubble...isolated.....in which an entire universe spins...for a time.....and then disappears back into the nothingness..........it can no more see its own assumed reality..... then a whirlpool can see the river........ > > > the how and whyness.........of this will forever remain a mystery........... > > but I have to stop now.......I'm getting nauseas..............:-0 > We are limitless being trapped in shells of fear. Maybe this shell of fear is all we can and ever will experience..or........maybe not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Hi Toombaru, maybe it was too much asking you to answer all those six questions. So I have thought about making you an offer. If you would like to answer at least one of those questions it would be great. To make it even easier for you: feel free to chose the question you like. Please dont misunderstand this, I dont want to go into any brainteaser arguments with you. I hesitate to quote Nisargadatta... but, o.k.... I just have read a quote, it must have been one of those compassonate answers he gave: " Suffering is a call for enquiry, all pain needs investigation. Don't be lazy to think. " I liked that, it fits to my momentary situation, and maybe also to yours. The Background: you: >The " situation " is hopeless. me: >I agree you: >In the realization of that.........the most unspeakable thing >happens........... me: >to whom? you: >Well Stefan... here we are at the edge... can >you see anything? --- The Questions: 1.How did " You " find this truth if you cannot see anything beyond that edge? 2.How can be there an edge to something that is a) a dream and b) the only thing there is? 3.How can you say that " it is a dream " when there is no dreamer? 4.to whom happens the most unspeakable thing? 5.How can there happen anything (speakable or unspeakable) if the dream is All-That-Is? 6.How can a " dream " that does not even exist, be hopeless? Could you tell me " what " or " who " is of no hope of " what " ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Hi Toombaru, > > maybe it was too much asking you to answer all those six questions. > So I have thought about making you an offer. If you would like to > answer at least one of those questions it would be great. To make it > even easier for you: feel free to chose the question you like. > > Please dont misunderstand this, I dont want to go into any brainteaser > arguments with you. I hesitate to quote Nisargadatta... but, o.k.... I > just have read a quote, it must have been one of those compassonate > answers he gave: " Suffering is a call for enquiry, all pain needs > investigation. Don't be lazy to think. " I liked that, it fits to my > momentary situation, and maybe also to yours. > > The Background: > you: > >The " situation " is hopeless. > me: > >I agree > you: > >In the realization of that.........the most unspeakable thing > >happens........... > me: > >to whom? > you: > >Well Stefan... here we are at the edge... can > >you see anything? > --- > > The Questions: > 1.How did " You " find this truth if you cannot see anything beyond that > edge? > 2.How can be there an edge to something that is a) a dream and b) the > only thing there is? > 3.How can you say that " it is a dream " when there is no dreamer? > 4.to whom happens the most unspeakable thing? > 5.How can there happen anything (speakable or unspeakable) if the > dream is All-That-Is? > 6.How can a " dream " that does not even exist, be hopeless? Could you > tell me " what " or " who " is of no hope of " what " ? Stefan.........I am not intentionally being elusive in what follows: A question......any question....is circular and contains within itself its own answer. Let's take nomber 4. " To whom happens the most unspeakable thing? " Built into the question ....is the assumption that there is some-thing or some-one who could benefit from this " collision with the infinite " .......and the question answers itself......The supposed benefactor would have to be this hypothetical self. Any question about things immaterial........has the same circularity. Even that most famous of questions............. " Who am I? " t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: >Stefan.........I am not intentionally being elusive in what follows: >A question......any question....is circular and contains within >itself its own answer. I would have said the same. >Let's take nomber 4. > " To whom happens the most unspeakable thing? " >Built into the question ....is the assumption that there is >some-thing or some-one who could benefit from this " collision with >the infinite " ... and the question answers itself... The supposed >benefactor would have to be this hypothetical self. I almost agree, but there are always two possible answers. There could also be nobody. And this is the thing which leads to the loop... the mind cannot take a position, but neither can he accept there is no solution. >Any question about things immaterial... has the same circularity. >Even that most famous of questions... " Who am I? " Yes, so, if you already did find out so much: why then are you taking this big effort to formulate hypothetical assertions? Assertions which - if you look at them with what you just have said in mind - simply become silly? Why not just stay with the question instead? If at all? Greetings S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > >Stefan.........I am not intentionally being elusive in what follows: > >A question......any question....is circular and contains within > >itself its own answer. > > I would have said the same. > > >Let's take nomber 4. > > " To whom happens the most unspeakable thing? " > > >Built into the question ....is the assumption that there is > >some-thing or some-one who could benefit from this " collision with > >the infinite " ... and the question answers itself... The supposed > >benefactor would have to be this hypothetical self. > > I almost agree, but there are always two possible answers. There could > also be nobody. There is no such thing as " nobody " The question asks: Who benefits? If benefit is produced....it requires a place to reside..... The question.....emerges from within the assumption that there is somebody. (the questioner himself)...it is from that assumption (I_AM) that the whole......dream.....originates. And this is the thing which leads to the loop... the > mind cannot take a position, but neither can he accept there is no > solution. yes.......that's the rub. > > >Any question about things immaterial... has the same circularity. > >Even that most famous of questions... " Who am I? " > > Yes, so, if you already did find out so much: why then are you taking > this big effort to formulate hypothetical assertions? Assertions which > - if you look at them with what you just have said in mind - simply > become silly? I have absolutely no idea why this activity is occuring within old toombaru...... but I have to agree....it is at least as silly as every other human endeavor...:-) Why not just stay with the question instead? If at all? > There you go again.........thinking " I " have a choice...:-) Post Script: I would like to tell you that I am not trying to convert you...or anyone else.... to any belief system.....or convince you that " my " way of thinking is the right way...I am not trying to win a war of words.....These ideas flow through this mind.......night and day...... .......I enjoy...very much...these exchanges...and the " places " that they make me reach for.... I make no pretense to know anything about what I write...... My posts are only one voice ......yelling into the abyss.....hoping for an echo....... .........wondering if there is anyone else.....in this dream..... and I thank you......and everyone here........for your time...... toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 > I have absolutely no idea why this activity is occuring within old toombaru...... Oh dear Toombaru, you need a new " Sandeep-cure " , perhaps at a health resort, I guess. BTW, where is he? having time & space Kip Almazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> wrote: > > > I have absolutely no idea why this activity is occuring within old > toombaru...... > > > Oh dear Toombaru, > > you need a new " Sandeep-cure " , perhaps at a health resort, I guess. > BTW, where is he? > > having time & space > Kip Almazy Yes.......I remember when he would come through........ like a warm wind...and sweep all our words away........ ........the last time I was at Eselan....on the Central Coast of California......I was sitting in the clothing optional hot tubs that overlook the ocean...late at night....hot water....shooting stars.....ocean breaking.....naked women..........ahhhhhhhh t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > Post Script: > > >words.....These ideas flow through this mind.......night and day...... > ......I enjoy...very much...these exchanges...and the " places " that they make me reach for.... I make no pretense to know anything about what I write...... > toombaru Exactly! Ideas flowing night and day! Are ideas, no matter how wise, IT? The ultimate? Is there awareness of silence? Is there space without end? spiritual ideas are sophisticated toys. Get off your sandbox. Mommy is calling! Your lunch is ready. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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