Guest guest Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Pete Wrote > P: The above is just conceptual cosmetic surgery. Any identity > is in the realm of mind and conceptuality. You just got a new > face, rather a new mask. The dreamer knowing himself dreaming, > is an important step, but the alarm clock hasn't rung yet. Or > so it seems. > > Pete It was only when I started to think about what Pete said that a huge light went on. Thanks to Pete, something that has been bugging me about Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita fell into perfect place. Why on earth would Krishna tell Arjuna that it was his duty to more or less kill his relatives? This was an unfathomable mind-blower ever since I originally read it over three years ago. Pete: eternally thanks. The answer came to me when I tried to understand Pete's " cosmetic surgery " : The alternatives of I=That=YOU: 1- Krishna, Buddha, Christ, Ramana, Papaji, Nisargadatta …. did not know what they were talking about because not only are we all different but we are so different that we need original sin so that without religions we have to go to their hell. (I lived with this for over 50 years because it was the Pope's favorite. ) 2: The saints are right – we are all one and the same – but my mind is deceiving me because it has to think it is different from other minds and their " real " bodies. 3. My mind cannot be smart enough to think it is just a dream. 4. My mind is too stupid to figure out that it is just a dream. 5: Life cannot be a dream because our bodies bleed and break – in the exact same way they would in a nightmare that cannot be what it is: a dream. 6: I'm a Manchurian Candidate who has been hypnotized by the CIA to use this I=THAT=YOU to infiltrate non-dualistic groups so that I can either kill their leaders or turn them over to be tortured and/or killed for all sorts of dualistic cults that need Jews, Arabs or G.W.B's born-again-christians to be dualistic. More than anything else – this kind of thinking (which my mind has been doing for over 50 years) reminds me adamantly why I can no longer take my mind and its thoughts very seriously. And then there is my mind-blower: if there is no Doer then why should I care if some covert-organization, like the CIA, has programmed my body-mind to commit all sorts of atrocities and sins, like a suicide-bomber. This mind-blower needs some thinking: what kind of psychopath would it take not to care if he was programmed to kill like a Manchurian Candidate – to kill like Arjuna had to kill his relatives: only if the psychopath, Arjuna, was aware that there was no Doer. Because there is no Doer – life has to be a dream that is like a movie – the movie is already made our mind and its body is just going through the motions – thus there is no Doer. And because there is no Doer the worst thing that can happen is that I will die to wake up and the best thing that can happen is that I laugh at death. Thanks to people like Pete, every day that goes by makes it easier and easier to laugh at death. Thanks Pete Semmi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Nisargadatta , " semminincs " <semmin@e...> wrote: > >>> > Why on earth would Krishna tell Arjuna that it was his duty to more > or less kill his relatives? This was an unfathomable mind-blower > ever since I originally read it over three years ago. P: Could it be { and this is a wild guess } that Krishna is just an imaginary sacred straw dummy and that the high priest of the day was the ventriloquist who put those words in his mouth to please the warrior class? After all, religions from time immemorial have blessed all the wars fought by the ruling class. > > > The alternatives of I=That=YOU: > 1- Krishna, Buddha, Christ, Ramana, Papaji, Nisargadatta …. did not > know what they were talking about because not only are we all > different but we are so different that we need original sin so that > without religions we have to go to their hell. (I lived with this for > over 50 years because it was the Pope's favorite. ) > > 2: The saints are right – we are all one and the same – but my mind > is deceiving me because it has to think it is different from other > minds and their " real " bodies. > > 3. My mind cannot be smart enough to think it is just a dream. > > 4. My mind is too stupid to figure out that it is just a dream. P: what's the difference between 3 & 4? > > 5: Life cannot be a dream because our bodies bleed and break – in the > exact same way they would in a nightmare that cannot be what it is: a > dream. P: Yes, to call life a dream, is a fool's comfort. You cann't get rid of suffering by labeling unreal, or by saying there is no doer, or sufferer. Suffering whether in a nightmare or awake is still suffering. A madman'ssuffering is real even if his hallucinations are not. And responsability for suffering has to be shouldered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " semminincs " <semmin@e...> wrote: > > > >>> > > Why on earth would Krishna tell Arjuna that it was his duty to > more > > or less kill his relatives? This was an unfathomable mind-blower > > ever since I originally read it over three years ago. > > P: Could it be { and this is a wild guess } that Krishna is just an > imaginary sacred straw dummy and that the high priest of > the day was the ventriloquist who put those words in his mouth > to please the warrior class? After all, religions from time immemorial > have blessed all the wars fought by the ruling class. > > > > > > > > The alternatives of I=That=YOU: > > 1- Krishna, Buddha, Christ, Ramana, Papaji, Nisargadatta …. did not > > know what they were talking about because not only are we all > > different but we are so different that we need original sin so that > > without religions we have to go to their hell. (I lived with this > for > > over 50 years because it was the Pope's favorite. ) > > > > 2: The saints are right – we are all one and the same – but my mind > > is deceiving me because it has to think it is different from other > > minds and their " real " bodies. > > > > 3. My mind cannot be smart enough to think it is just a dream. > > > > 4. My mind is too stupid to figure out that it is just a dream. > > P: what's the difference between 3 & 4? > > > > > 5: Life cannot be a dream because our bodies bleed and break – in > the > > exact same way they would in a nightmare that cannot be what it is: > a > > dream. > > P: Yes, to call life a dream, is a fool's comfort. You cann't get rid > of suffering by labeling unreal, or by saying there is no doer, or > sufferer. Suffering whether in a nightmare or awake is still > suffering. A madman'ssuffering is real even if his hallucinations are > not. And responsability for suffering has to be shouldered. By whom? t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2004 Report Share Posted October 26, 2004 > > > Why on earth would Krishna tell Arjuna that it was his duty to > > more > > > or less kill his relatives? This was an unfathomable mind- blower > > > ever since I originally read it over three years ago. Krishna told him not to worry.....that He has already killed them. By identifying himself as the " I am " ...Arjuna believes that he is the killer....he then assumes the mantle of responsibility...and the burden of shame. t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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