Guest guest Posted November 7, 2004 Report Share Posted November 7, 2004 advaitajnana , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: Namaste,IMO,Within Samasara, Within illusion there is the appearance of many lives, lived in a linear fashion. However as time itself is and illusion they are all lived at the same time. This allows for karmic bleedthroughs from other lives, past and future. This is achieved by the synchronicity of vibrations, that allow the joining so to speak. So if one becomes spiritual one attracts karma from other lives to suit. If one is egotistical like a Stalin, Hitler or most of the present world leaders, one attracts more vibrations hence more power. This is done by our own Higher Self, and Universal Mind reacting to karma. This is Grace. Grace is actually the energy or Sakti, karma does all the work. People' prayers and meditations reach our own Higher Self and this transfer of karma occurs, and even that is predetermined. There is no 'God' as such or Ramana or Jesus or Buddha doing any of this. We always only meet ourselves...Only our attitude and treatment mentally is within our own ability not the actions..............ONS....Tony. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 How sweet, But a Hitler had to become a Hitler and a Stalin a Stalin, as I had to become what I am and the same with everyone else. There is no way out, no escape. If Stalin would have had a chance he would have got different - but he hadn't. This whole morality dressed as spirituality is that what stinks and not Hitler or Stalin or me and you. When J.W. Goethe was in his seventies he said, that he hasn't got a criminal wasn't due to his character but due to benevoloent circumstances. Werner Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: > > advaitajnana , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> > wrote: > > Namaste,IMO,Within Samasara, > > Within illusion there is the appearance of many lives, lived in a > linear fashion. However as time itself is and illusion they are all > lived at the same time. This allows for karmic bleedthroughs from > other lives, past and future. > > This is achieved by the synchronicity of vibrations, that allow the > joining so to speak. So if one becomes spiritual one attracts karma > from other lives to suit. If one is egotistical like a Stalin, > Hitler or most of the present world leaders, one attracts more > vibrations hence more power. > > This is done by our own Higher Self, and Universal Mind reacting to > karma. This is Grace. Grace is actually the energy or Sakti, karma > does all the work. People' prayers and meditations reach our own > Higher Self and this transfer of karma occurs, and even that is > predetermined. There is no 'God' as such or Ramana or Jesus or > Buddha doing any of this. We always only meet ourselves...Only our > attitude and treatment mentally is within our own ability not the > actions..............ONS....Tony. > --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > How sweet, > > But a Hitler had to become a Hitler and a Stalin a Stalin, as I had > to become what I am and the same with everyone else. There is no way > out, no escape. If Stalin would have had a chance he would have got > different - but he hadn't. > > This whole morality dressed as spirituality is that what stinks and > not Hitler or Stalin or me and you. > > When J.W. Goethe was in his seventies he said, that he hasn't got a > criminal wasn't due to his character but due to benevoloent > circumstances. > > Werner Namaste, You will notice that I said even the bleed throughs were karmic. I am just using them as examples that people understand. Some wife beater down the street may be more 'evil' than either of the two mentioned gentlemen..The whole premise of my argument is that there is no time.........ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > > How sweet, > > > > But a Hitler had to become a Hitler and a Stalin a Stalin, as I had > > to become what I am and the same with everyone else. There is no > way > > out, no escape. If Stalin would have had a chance he would have got > > different - but he hadn't. > > > > This whole morality dressed as spirituality is that what stinks and > > not Hitler or Stalin or me and you. > > > > When J.W. Goethe was in his seventies he said, that he hasn't got > a > > criminal wasn't due to his character but due to benevoloent > > circumstances. > > > > Werner > > Namaste, > > You will notice that I said even the bleed throughs were karmic. I > am just using them as examples that people understand. Some wife > beater down the street may be more 'evil' than either of the two > mentioned gentlemen..The whole premise of my argument is that there > is no time.........ONS..Tony. P: Your whole premise is that you like spiritual fantasy. You should be glad to know " Lord of The Rings " is showing on TV nowsdays. That's right down your alley. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > > > How sweet, > > > > > > But a Hitler had to become a Hitler and a Stalin a Stalin, as I > had > > > to become what I am and the same with everyone else. There is no > > way > > > out, no escape. If Stalin would have had a chance he would have > got > > > different - but he hadn't. > > > > > > This whole morality dressed as spirituality is that what stinks > and > > > not Hitler or Stalin or me and you. > > > > > > When J.W. Goethe was in his seventies he said, that he hasn't got > > a > > > criminal wasn't due to his character but due to benevoloent > > > circumstances. > > > > > > Werner > > > > Namaste, > > > > You will notice that I said even the bleed throughs were karmic. I > > am just using them as examples that people understand. Some wife > > beater down the street may be more 'evil' than either of the two > > mentioned gentlemen..The whole premise of my argument is that there > > is no time.........ONS..Tony. > > P: Your whole premise is that you like spiritual fantasy. You > should be glad to know " Lord of The Rings " is showing on TV nowsdays. > That's right down your alley. ) Namaste, There is only fantasy, it can not be separated into boxes like spiritual and non spiritual, just as the world cannot. Sure I was talking in samsara otherwise we wouldn't be here would we. The fact that even scientifically there is no time is helpful in understanding how karma works. It all happens at the same time, the concentration is different that's all. We are concentrating on one spoke of the wheel but the other are still there. One of the problems with purely intellectual non sadhana non dualism is that it is restricted only to machination in the lower human minds, and there is a disconnect from the Higher Self Mind. This results in the effect of a dog chasing its tail but the only result is a faster spin and a dizzy dog.............ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > > > How sweet, > > > > > > But a Hitler had to become a Hitler and a Stalin a Stalin, as I > had > > > to become what I am and the same with everyone else. There is no > > way > > > out, no escape. If Stalin would have had a chance he would have > got > > > different - but he hadn't. > > > > > > This whole morality dressed as spirituality is that what stinks > and > > > not Hitler or Stalin or me and you. > > > > > > When J.W. Goethe was in his seventies he said, that he hasn't got > > a > > > criminal wasn't due to his character but due to benevoloent > > > circumstances. > > > > > > Werner > > > > Namaste, > > > > You will notice that I said even the bleed throughs were karmic. I > > am just using them as examples that people understand. Some wife > > beater down the street may be more 'evil' than either of the two > > mentioned gentlemen..The whole premise of my argument is that there > > is no time.........ONS..Tony. > > P: Your whole premise is that you like spiritual fantasy. You > should be glad to know " Lord of The Rings " is showing on TV nowsdays. > That's right down your alley. ) Namaste, There is only fantasy, it can not be separated into boxes like spiritual and non spiritual, just as the world cannot. Sure I was talking in samsara otherwise we wouldn't be here would we. The fact that even scientifically there is no time is helpful in understanding how karma works. It all happens at the same time, the concentration is different that's all. We are concentrating on one spoke of the wheel but the other are still there. One of the problems with purely intellectual non sadhana non dualism is that it is restricted only to machination in the lower human minds, and there is a disconnect from the Higher Self Mind. This results in the effect of a dog chasing its tail but the only result is a faster spin and a dizzy dog.............ONS..Tony. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: > > > > P: Your whole premise is that you like spiritual fantasy. You > > should be glad to know " Lord of The Rings " is showing on TV > nowsdays. > > That's right down your alley. ) > > Namaste, > > There is only fantasy, it can not be separated into boxes like > spiritual and non spiritual, just as the world cannot. > Sure I was talking in samsara otherwise we wouldn't be here would we. > The fact that even scientifically there is no time is helpful in > understanding how karma works. It all happens at the same time, the > concentration is different that's all. We are concentrating on one > spoke of the wheel but the other are still there. > > One of the problems with purely intellectual non sadhana non dualism > is that it is restricted only to machination in the lower human > minds, and there is a disconnect from the Higher Self Mind. This > results in the effect of a dog chasing its tail but the only result > is a faster spin and a dizzy dog.............ONS..Tony. Sure, fantasy is fantasy, no matter on what subject. The alleyways of fantasy are endless, and lead nowhere. And you love fantasy I can tell, the fantasy of spirits, voices, visions. The fantasy of higher mind, self, karma, time and no time. In other words the Tony drama in all its fantastic glory. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> > wrote: > > > > > > P: Your whole premise is that you like spiritual fantasy. You > > > should be glad to know " Lord of The Rings " is showing on TV > > nowsdays. > > > That's right down your alley. ) > > > > Namaste, > > > > There is only fantasy, it can not be separated into boxes like > > spiritual and non spiritual, just as the world cannot. > > Sure I was talking in samsara otherwise we wouldn't be here would > we. > > The fact that even scientifically there is no time is helpful in > > understanding how karma works. It all happens at the same time, the > > concentration is different that's all. We are concentrating on one > > spoke of the wheel but the other are still there. > > > > One of the problems with purely intellectual non sadhana non > dualism > > is that it is restricted only to machination in the lower human > > minds, and there is a disconnect from the Higher Self Mind. This > > results in the effect of a dog chasing its tail but the only result > > is a faster spin and a dizzy dog.............ONS..Tony. > > Sure, fantasy is fantasy, no matter on what subject. The alleyways > of fantasy are endless, and lead nowhere. And you love fantasy I can > tell, the fantasy of spirits, voices, visions. The fantasy of higher > mind, self, karma, time and no time. In other words the Tony drama in > all its fantastic glory. Enjoy! Namaste, It requires a little acceptance of it to get out. Standing in a maze saying it doesn't exist it is all one, doesn't get one out...ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > P: Your whole premise is that you like spiritual fantasy. You > > > > should be glad to know " Lord of The Rings " is showing on TV > > > nowsdays. > > > > That's right down your alley. ) > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > There is only fantasy, it can not be separated into boxes like > > > spiritual and non spiritual, just as the world cannot. > > > Sure I was talking in samsara otherwise we wouldn't be here > would > > we. > > > The fact that even scientifically there is no time is helpful in > > > understanding how karma works. It all happens at the same time, > the > > > concentration is different that's all. We are concentrating on > one > > > spoke of the wheel but the other are still there. > > > > > > One of the problems with purely intellectual non sadhana non > > dualism > > > is that it is restricted only to machination in the lower human > > > minds, and there is a disconnect from the Higher Self Mind. This > > > results in the effect of a dog chasing its tail but the only > result > > > is a faster spin and a dizzy dog.............ONS..Tony. > > > > Sure, fantasy is fantasy, no matter on what subject. The alleyways > > of fantasy are endless, and lead nowhere. And you love fantasy I > can > > tell, the fantasy of spirits, voices, visions. The fantasy of > higher > > mind, self, karma, time and no time. In other words the drama > in > > all its fantastic glory. Enjoy! > > Namaste, > > It requires a little acceptance of it to get out. Standing in a maze > saying it doesn't exist it is all one, doesn't get one > out...ONS..Tony. P: When we see the false as false, it can't deceive any longer. The false exist only as a mis-interpretation. This mistaken identity is usually cause by our desires. So we should always question, what desires are our beliefs fulfilling? Then, it will become clear how desires, rather than truth shape our belief system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Hi Tony, Be simple. See the fact that you are rejecting to be an ordinary man. And as the result of this self-rejection you are day-dreaming yourself into someone greater, more this and more that. But this day- dreaming is just the compensation of your self-rejection which in reality is self-contempt. Do you really believe that through compensation you can learn anything about yourself ? When you feel contempt of a person then you turn your back to that person, right ? How can you learn anything about a person you no longer face ? Werner Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > P: Your whole premise is that you like spiritual fantasy. You > > > > should be glad to know " Lord of The Rings " is showing on TV > > > nowsdays. > > > > That's right down your alley. ) > > > > > > Namaste, > > > > > > There is only fantasy, it can not be separated into boxes like > > > spiritual and non spiritual, just as the world cannot. > > > Sure I was talking in samsara otherwise we wouldn't be here > would > > we. > > > The fact that even scientifically there is no time is helpful in > > > understanding how karma works. It all happens at the same time, > the > > > concentration is different that's all. We are concentrating on > one > > > spoke of the wheel but the other are still there. > > > > > > One of the problems with purely intellectual non sadhana non > > dualism > > > is that it is restricted only to machination in the lower human > > > minds, and there is a disconnect from the Higher Self Mind. This > > > results in the effect of a dog chasing its tail but the only > result > > > is a faster spin and a dizzy dog.............ONS..Tony. > > > > Sure, fantasy is fantasy, no matter on what subject. The alleyways > > of fantasy are endless, and lead nowhere. And you love fantasy I > can > > tell, the fantasy of spirits, voices, visions. The fantasy of > higher > > mind, self, karma, time and no time. In other words the drama > in > > all its fantastic glory. Enjoy! > > Namaste, > > It requires a little acceptance of it to get out. Standing in a maze > saying it doesn't exist it is all one, doesn't get one > out...ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Hi Tony, > > Be simple. See the fact that you are rejecting to be an ordinary man. > > And as the result of this self-rejection you are day-dreaming > yourself into someone greater, more this and more that. But this day- > dreaming is just the compensation of your self-rejection which in > reality is self-contempt. > > Do you really believe that through compensation you can learn > anything about yourself ? When you feel contempt of a person then you > turn your back to that person, right ? How can you learn anything > about a person you no longer face ? > > Werner Namaste, I cannot understand your post, it seems to be apples and oranges. I have no desire to learn more about myself for that is an endless task.........ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Hi Tony, I see. You are on the search for the miraculous, eternal life, bliss, compassion, love, oneness, the Absolute, the Supreme being, nirvana, etc etc... All these are oranges But your daily life is apples. Pretty boring, isn't it ? Have you ever gone into boredom with all your intelligence and sensitivity ? Ok, no you didn't - you just mentioned that you are not interested in learning about yourself. Werner Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Tony, > > > > Be simple. See the fact that you are rejecting to be an ordinary > man. > > > > And as the result of this self-rejection you are day-dreaming > > yourself into someone greater, more this and more that. But this > day- > > dreaming is just the compensation of your self-rejection which in > > reality is self-contempt. > > > > Do you really believe that through compensation you can learn > > anything about yourself ? When you feel contempt of a person then > you > > turn your back to that person, right ? How can you learn anything > > about a person you no longer face ? > > > > Werner > > Namaste, > > I cannot understand your post, it seems to be apples and oranges. I > have no desire to learn more about myself for that is an endless > task.........ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Hi Tony, > > I see. > > You are on the search for the miraculous, eternal life, bliss, > compassion, love, oneness, the Absolute, the Supreme being, nirvana, > etc etc... > > All these are oranges > > But your daily life is apples. Pretty boring, isn't it ? Have you > ever gone into boredom with all your intelligence and sensitivity ? > Ok, no you didn't - you just mentioned that you are not interested in > learning about yourself. > > Werner Namaste W, As I mentioned in my last post, we are obviously on different pages here. I am not on the search for all that experience-----that is the point........ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.