Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Hi friends, Today I found this text from Niz in the NetOfJewels list. Seems pretty strange, doesn't it ? Werner --------------------- " The memory of the past unfulfilled desires traps energy, which manifests itself as a person. When its charge gets exhausted, the person dies. Unfulfilled desires are carried over into the birth. Self identification with body creates ever fresh desires and there is no end to them unless this mechanism of bondage is clearly seen. It is clarity that is liberating, for you cannot abandon desire unless its causes and effects are clearly seen. I do not say that the same person is reborn. It dies, and dies for good. But its memories remain and their desires and fears. They supply the energy for a new person. " --------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Hi friends, > > Today I found this text from Niz in the NetOfJewels list. Seems > pretty strange, doesn't it ? > > Werner > --------------------- > " The memory of the past unfulfilled desires traps energy, which > manifests itself as a person. When its charge gets exhausted, the > person dies. Unfulfilled desires are carried over into the birth. > Self identification with body creates ever fresh desires and there is > no end to them unless this mechanism of bondage is clearly seen. It > is clarity that is liberating, for you cannot abandon desire unless > its causes and effects are clearly seen. I do not say that the same > person is reborn. It dies, and dies for good. But its memories > remain and their desires and fears. They supply the energy for a new > person. " > --------------------- Werner, Not strange, absolutely correct! Great quote! Before Werner was born, there was already a Werner for your parents. They probably chose your name before you were conceived. Werner payed already, as conceptual construct, for a lot of desires and expectations. The desire of his parents and the desires, his parents, got from their parents and, so on, indefinitely. When Werner was born into this world, he was already here and wrapped over and over in an interminable number of plies of fear, desire, expectation, love and hope. This is what Lacan calls the discourse of the Other. Werner and Kip were born to it, to something which already existed without a body. The mold was there since inmemorial times and we filled it in because, it was already there. A mold shaped by a myriad of memories. The mold as the supply of energy. What dies, is that, what fills the mold up. The molds haven't been born and will never disappear as long as there is an unfullfilled desire....See? Mold in German means " Form " . Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. Kip Almazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Thanks Kip, In some way your intepretation makes sense. My problem was how can the memories of a person after it died remain and for me these memories are unique and are gone when that person is gone. Werner Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > > Hi friends, > > > > Today I found this text from Niz in the NetOfJewels list. Seems > > pretty strange, doesn't it ? > > > > Werner > > --------------------- > > " The memory of the past unfulfilled desires traps energy, which > > manifests itself as a person. When its charge gets exhausted, the > > person dies. Unfulfilled desires are carried over into the birth. > > Self identification with body creates ever fresh desires and there > is > > no end to them unless this mechanism of bondage is clearly seen. It > > is clarity that is liberating, for you cannot abandon desire unless > > its causes and effects are clearly seen. I do not say that the same > > person is reborn. It dies, and dies for good. But its memories > > remain and their desires and fears. They supply the energy for a new > > person. " > > --------------------- > > Werner, > > Not strange, absolutely correct! Great quote! Before Werner was born, > there was already a Werner for your parents. They probably chose your > name before you were conceived. Werner payed already, as conceptual > construct, for a lot of desires and expectations. The desire of his > parents and the desires, his parents, got from their parents and, so > on, indefinitely. When Werner was born into this world, he was > already here and wrapped over and over in an interminable number of > plies of fear, desire, expectation, love and hope. This is what Lacan > calls the discourse of the Other. Werner and Kip were born to it, to > something which already existed without a body. The mold was there > since inmemorial times and we filled it in because, it was already > there. A mold shaped by a myriad of memories. The mold as the supply > of energy. What dies, is that, what fills the mold up. The molds > haven't been born and will never disappear as long as there is an > unfullfilled desire....See? > > Mold in German means " Form " . Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. > > > Kip Almazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 My problem was how can the memories of a person after it died remain and for me these memories are unique and are gone when that person is gone. ....they are not your memories, never have been yours Kip Almazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Thanks Kip, > > In some way your intepretation makes sense. My problem was how can > the memories of a person after it died remain and for me these > memories are unique and are gone when that person is gone. > > Werner P:I think Kip interpretation is right on target. If your dead granddad was beaten freccuently by his father, and by the time you were born he was dead, those memories of the beatings lived still in your father, who was beaten in turn by his father, and they could still be there in you, if you carry the same violent abusive genes. Those ancestral memories pertuate the good and the bad of past generations. We pass to our children our sins and some virtues too. > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi friends, > > > > > > Today I found this text from Niz in the NetOfJewels list. Seems > > > pretty strange, doesn't it ? > > > > > > Werner > > > --------------------- > > > " The memory of the past unfulfilled desires traps energy, which > > > manifests itself as a person. When its charge gets exhausted, the > > > person dies. Unfulfilled desires are carried over into the birth. > > > Self identification with body creates ever fresh desires and > there > > is > > > no end to them unless this mechanism of bondage is clearly seen. > It > > > is clarity that is liberating, for you cannot abandon desire > unless > > > its causes and effects are clearly seen. I do not say that the > same > > > person is reborn. It dies, and dies for good. But its memories > > > remain and their desires and fears. They supply the energy for a > new > > > person. " > > > --------------------- > > > > Werner, > > > > Not strange, absolutely correct! Great quote! Before Werner was > born, > > there was already a Werner for your parents. They probably chose > your > > name before you were conceived. Werner payed already, as conceptual > > construct, for a lot of desires and expectations. The desire of his > > parents and the desires, his parents, got from their parents and, > so > > on, indefinitely. When Werner was born into this world, he was > > already here and wrapped over and over in an interminable number of > > plies of fear, desire, expectation, love and hope. This is what > Lacan > > calls the discourse of the Other. Werner and Kip were born to it, > to > > something which already existed without a body. The mold was there > > since inmemorial times and we filled it in because, it was already > > there. A mold shaped by a myriad of memories. The mold as the > supply > > of energy. What dies, is that, what fills the mold up. The molds > > haven't been born and will never disappear as long as there is an > > unfullfilled desire....See? > > > > Mold in German means " Form " . Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. > > > > > > Kip Almazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Hi friends, > > Today I found this text from Niz in the NetOfJewels list. Seems > pretty strange, doesn't it ? > > Werner > --------------------- hi werner, i hope you can consider me a friend, really.. and no, it is not at all strange to me, i have heard the same and similiar thoughts for over thirty years... > " The memory of the past unfulfilled desires traps energy, which > manifests itself as a person. When its charge gets exhausted, the > person dies. Unfulfilled desires are carried over into the birth. > Self identification with body creates ever fresh desires and there is > no end to them unless this mechanism of bondage is clearly seen. It > is clarity that is liberating, for you cannot abandon desire unless > its causes and effects are clearly seen. I do not say that the same > person is reborn. It dies, and dies for good. But its memories > remain and their desires and fears. They supply the energy for a new > person. " > --------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> wrote: > > My problem was how can the memories of a person after it died remain > and for me these memories are unique and are gone when that person > is gone. > > > > > ...they are not your memories, never have been yours > > > Kip Almazy devi: when the physical body turns to dust, so to speak, there is another body that stores your memories, its asral or subtle....some memories are good some bad, supposedly, all your past actions determine what your next birth will be like...when you have actually erased all those *impressions* your slate, so to speak is wiped clean and your realize, beyond the *I Am* what nizargadadda calls the Supreme or the Absolute ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Hi friends, > > Today I found this text from Niz in the NetOfJewels list. Seems > pretty strange, doesn't it ? > > Werner > --------------------- > " The memory of the past unfulfilled desires traps energy, which > manifests itself as a person. When its charge gets exhausted, the > person dies. Unfulfilled desires are carried over into the birth. > Self identification with body creates ever fresh desires and there is > no end to them unless this mechanism of bondage is clearly seen. It > is clarity that is liberating, for you cannot abandon desire unless > its causes and effects are clearly seen. I do not say that the same > person is reborn. It dies, and dies for good. But its memories > remain and their desires and fears. They supply the energy for a new > person. " > --------------------- Namaste W, It makes sense to me, in samsara that is. It could also be talking about the after death body as well. Which is the subtle body and its attributes and tendencies. When the energies of thoughts carrying over are exhausted the entity takes birth again and forms a new body, mind and personality reacting with the situation. A matching up of vibrations is always happening, and they are accesible as memories in the unconscious mind. This is all in illusion of course for the enlightened it never ever did happen...............ONS..Tony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Tony OClery " <aoclery> wrote: Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Hi friends, > > Today I found this text from Niz in the NetOfJewels list. Seems > pretty strange, doesn't it ? > > Werner > --------------------- > " The memory of the past unfulfilled desires traps energy, which > manifests itself as a person. When its charge gets exhausted, the > person dies. Unfulfilled desires are carried over into the birth. > Self identification with body creates ever fresh desires and there is > no end to them unless this mechanism of bondage is clearly seen. It > is clarity that is liberating, for you cannot abandon desire unless > its causes and effects are clearly seen. I do not say that the same > person is reborn. It dies, and dies for good. But its memories > remain and their desires and fears. They supply the energy for a new > person. " > --------------------- Namaste W, It makes sense to me, in samsara that is. It could also be talking about the after death body as well. Which is the subtle body and its attributes and tendencies. When the energies of thoughts carrying over are exhausted the entity takes birth again and forms a new body, mind and personality reacting with the situation. A matching up of vibrations is always happening, and they are accesible as memories in the unconscious mind. This is all in illusion of course for the enlightened it never ever did happen...............ONS..Tony. --- End forwarded message --- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Hi friends, > > Today I found this text from Niz in the NetOfJewels list. Seems > pretty strange, doesn't it ? > > Werner > --------------------- > " The memory of the past unfulfilled desires traps energy, which > manifests itself as a person. When its charge gets exhausted, the > person dies. Unfulfilled desires are carried over into the birth. I hope you did not undertood this as a linear survival of a small-self = an ego's reincartion ? > Self identification with body creates ever fresh desires and there is > no end to them unless this mechanism of bondage is clearly seen. It > is clarity that is liberating, for you cannot abandon desire unless > its causes and effects are clearly seen. I do not say that the same > person is reborn. It dies, and dies for good. But its memories > remain and their desires and fears. They supply the energy for a new > person. " > --------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > > > Thanks Kip, > > > > In some way your intepretation makes sense. My problem was how can > > the memories of a person after it died remain and for me these > > memories are unique and are gone when that person is gone. > > --imo emotions leave a charge of energy field signicant to itselves: what acts as a trap..the --like will tune into like.. etc etc > > Werner > > P:I think Kip interpretation is right on target. If your dead > granddad was beaten freccuently by his father, and by the time > you were born he was dead, those memories of the beatings > lived still in your father, who was beaten in turn by his father, > and they could still be there in you, if you carry the same > violent abusive genes. Those ancestral memories pertuate the > good and the bad of past generations. We pass to our children > our sins and some virtues too. > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi friends, > > > > > > > > Today I found this text from Niz in the NetOfJewels list. Seems > > > > pretty strange, doesn't it ? > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > --------------------- > > > > " The memory of the past unfulfilled desires traps energy, which > > > > manifests itself as a person. When its charge gets exhausted, > the > > > > person dies. Unfulfilled desires are carried over into the > birth. > > > > Self identification with body creates ever fresh desires and > > there > > > is > > > > no end to them unless this mechanism of bondage is clearly > seen. > > It > > > > is clarity that is liberating, for you cannot abandon desire > > unless > > > > its causes and effects are clearly seen. I do not say that the > > same > > > > person is reborn. It dies, and dies for good. But its memories > > > > remain and their desires and fears. They supply the energy for > a > > new > > > > person. " > > > > --------------------- > > > > > > Werner, > > > > > > Not strange, absolutely correct! Great quote! Before Werner was > > born, > > > there was already a Werner for your parents. They probably chose > > your > > > name before you were conceived. Werner payed already, as > conceptual > > > construct, for a lot of desires and expectations. The desire of > his > > > parents and the desires, his parents, got from their parents and, > > so > > > on, indefinitely. When Werner was born into this world, he was > > > already here and wrapped over and over in an interminable number > of > > > plies of fear, desire, expectation, love and hope. This is what > > Lacan > > > calls the discourse of the Other. Werner and Kip were born to it, > > to > > > something which already existed without a body. The mold was > there > > > since inmemorial times and we filled it in because, it was > already > > > there. A mold shaped by a myriad of memories. The mold as the > > supply > > > of energy. What dies, is that, what fills the mold up. The molds > > > haven't been born and will never disappear as long as there is an > > > unfullfilled desire....See? > > > > > > Mold in German means " Form " . Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. > > > > > > > > > Kip Almazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 W: > > > In some way your intepretation makes sense. My problem was how can > > > the memories of a person after it died remain and for me these > > > memories are unique and are gone when that person is gone. > > > > > > --imo emotions leave a charge of > energy field signicant to itselves: > it goes to the unconscious pool shared by all of us as the subconsious there without any identity or entity IT IS ONLT ENERGY > what acts as a trap..the > > --like will tune into like.. > > > etc etc > > Era P:I think Kip interpretation is right on target. yes, his is : all is stored in our DNA >K: If your dead > > granddad was beaten freccuently by his father, and by the time > > you were born he was dead, those memories of the beatings > > lived still in your father, who was beaten in turn by his father, > > and they could still be there in you, if you carry the same > > violent abusive genes. Those ancestral memories pertuate the > > good and the bad of past generations. We pass to our children > > our sins and some virtues too. > > > > Mold in German means " Form " . Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> > wrote: > > > > My problem was how can the memories of a person after it died > remain > > and for me these memories are unique and are gone when that person > > is gone. > > > > > > > > > > ...they are not your memories, never have been yours > > > > > > Kip Almazy > > devi: when the physical body turns to dust, so to speak, there is > another body that stores your memories, its asral or subtle....some > memories are good some bad, supposedly, all your past actions > determine what your next birth will be like... P: And Santa brings nice toys to good gullible children! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> > > wrote: > > > > > > My problem was how can the memories of a person after it died > > remain > > > and for me these memories are unique and are gone when that > person > > > is gone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...they are not your memories, never have been yours > > > > > > > > > Kip Almazy > > > > devi: when the physical body turns to dust, so to speak, there is > > another body that stores your memories, its asral or subtle....some > > memories are good some bad, supposedly, all your past actions > > determine what your next birth will be like... > > > P: And Santa brings nice toys to good gullible children! devi: there are hundreds of thousands of beings that have similar thoughts to mine...i've had out of body expereince, so i've seen that astral body, i also know the subtle body and the subtle realms..i know its hard to think that something is not possible when you havent' had the experience..i've never seen an alien, that doesn't mean that they don't exist.. you can keep your mind limited to a certain area, i like to have mine expanded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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