Guest guest Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Shawn " <shawnregan> wrote: > > > > When you discover you are encased or entombed in this mechanical > > mass of flesh. I remember as a child the disbelief that I was > > this " stuff " a machine of blood and guts. It was such a terror that > > I didn't know how I could live as such. My life, me, was dependent > > by such a thing. For two weeks I was an anxious basket case. > > Now I feel like it is a prison and I am at the mercy of it's jokes > > and cruelty. Lately this anxiety has returned, I suspect it never > > left, to torment me around my 40th birthday. Everyday I find " me " in > > a different environment of mind. Sometimes it is pleasant like > > laying in a hammock on a warm summer day listening to the birds and > > children play. Other days it is terrifying like someone who is > > scared of heights being dangled from the top of a skyscraper. Not to > > be let go, just dangled. How I appreciate those hammock days like > > you wouldn't believe. > > This is however providing me with a crash course of me vs. mind > > although I think I would have preferred the longer way although I > > wasn't as diligent as I could be when I feel ok. The urgency is just > > not there. > > How do we manage to live like this? How do we see others dying > > around us and not completely lose it? The animals do it but I > > believe they don't know the separation we do. The cruel joke is that > > we are just conscious enough to know the death terror but not > > conscious enough to transcend it. > > Death, what is that? You have only been in contact with death through > your memory. And that memory is timeless. So, death is just a word. > And the terror you are experiencing is just a mind projection, like > pure awareness dipped in dirty mud of fearful memories. Are you sure > that you will die? Are you absolutely sure that you will die? I am absolutely sure the body will die. What I'm not sure of is that I'm not the body. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Shawn " <shawnregan> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Shawn " <shawnregan> > wrote: > > > > > > When you discover you are encased or entombed in this mechanical > > > mass of flesh. I remember as a child the disbelief that I was > > > this " stuff " a machine of blood and guts. It was such a terror > that > > > I didn't know how I could live as such. My life, me, was dependent > > > by such a thing. For two weeks I was an anxious basket case. > > > Now I feel like it is a prison and I am at the mercy of it's jokes > > > and cruelty. Lately this anxiety has returned, I suspect it never > > > left, to torment me around my 40th birthday. Everyday I find " me " > in > > > a different environment of mind. Sometimes it is pleasant like > > > laying in a hammock on a warm summer day listening to the birds > and > > > children play. Other days it is terrifying like someone who is > > > scared of heights being dangled from the top of a skyscraper. Not > to > > > be let go, just dangled. How I appreciate those hammock days like > > > you wouldn't believe. > > > This is however providing me with a crash course of me vs. mind > > > although I think I would have preferred the longer way although I > > > wasn't as diligent as I could be when I feel ok. The urgency is > just > > > not there. > > > How do we manage to live like this? How do we see others dying > > > around us and not completely lose it? The animals do it but I > > > believe they don't know the separation we do. The cruel joke is > that > > > we are just conscious enough to know the death terror but not > > > conscious enough to transcend it. > > > > Death, what is that? You have only been in contact with death > through > > your memory. And that memory is timeless. So, death is just a word. > > And the terror you are experiencing is just a mind projection, like > > pure awareness dipped in dirty mud of fearful memories. Are you sure > > that you will die? Are you absolutely sure that you will die? > > I am absolutely sure the body will die. What I'm not sure of is that > I'm not the body. > > Shawn Hi Shawn Your idea of your own death is of course your own, but I am not sure that my body will ever die. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2004 Report Share Posted November 14, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Shawn " <shawnregan> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Shawn " <shawnregan> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > When you discover you are encased or entombed in this mechanical > > > > mass of flesh. I remember as a child the disbelief that I was > > > > this " stuff " a machine of blood and guts. It was such a terror > > that > > > > I didn't know how I could live as such. My life, me, was > dependent > > > > by such a thing. For two weeks I was an anxious basket case. > > > > Now I feel like it is a prison and I am at the mercy of it's > jokes > > > > and cruelty. Lately this anxiety has returned, I suspect it > never > > > > left, to torment me around my 40th birthday. Everyday I find > " me " > > in > > > > a different environment of mind. Sometimes it is pleasant like > > > > laying in a hammock on a warm summer day listening to the birds > > and > > > > children play. Other days it is terrifying like someone who is > > > > scared of heights being dangled from the top of a skyscraper. > Not > > to > > > > be let go, just dangled. How I appreciate those hammock days > like > > > > you wouldn't believe. > > > > This is however providing me with a crash course of me vs. mind > > > > although I think I would have preferred the longer way although > I > > > > wasn't as diligent as I could be when I feel ok. The urgency is > > just > > > > not there. > > > > How do we manage to live like this? How do we see others dying > > > > around us and not completely lose it? The animals do it but I > > > > believe they don't know the separation we do. The cruel joke is > > that > > > > we are just conscious enough to know the death terror but not > > > > conscious enough to transcend it. > > > > > > Death, what is that? You have only been in contact with death > > through > > > your memory. And that memory is timeless. So, death is just a > word. > > > And the terror you are experiencing is just a mind projection, > like > > > pure awareness dipped in dirty mud of fearful memories. Are you > sure > > > that you will die? Are you absolutely sure that you will die? > > > > I am absolutely sure the body will die. What I'm not sure of is that > > I'm not the body. > > > > Shawn > > Hi Shawn > > Your idea of your own death is of course your own, but I am not sure > that my body will ever die. P: You are full of crap! Of that you can be sure. > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Shawn " <shawnregan> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Shawn " <shawnregan> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > When you discover you are encased or entombed in this > mechanical > > > > > mass of flesh. I remember as a child the disbelief that I was > > > > > this " stuff " a machine of blood and guts. It was such a > terror > > > that > > > > > I didn't know how I could live as such. My life, me, was > > dependent > > > > > by such a thing. For two weeks I was an anxious basket case. > > > > > Now I feel like it is a prison and I am at the mercy of it's > > jokes > > > > > and cruelty. Lately this anxiety has returned, I suspect it > > never > > > > > left, to torment me around my 40th birthday. Everyday I find > > " me " > > > in > > > > > a different environment of mind. Sometimes it is pleasant > like > > > > > laying in a hammock on a warm summer day listening to the > birds > > > and > > > > > children play. Other days it is terrifying like someone who > is > > > > > scared of heights being dangled from the top of a skyscraper. > > Not > > > to > > > > > be let go, just dangled. How I appreciate those hammock days > > like > > > > > you wouldn't believe. > > > > > This is however providing me with a crash course of me vs. > mind > > > > > although I think I would have preferred the longer way > although > > I > > > > > wasn't as diligent as I could be when I feel ok. The urgency > is > > > just > > > > > not there. > > > > > How do we manage to live like this? How do we see others > dying > > > > > around us and not completely lose it? The animals do it but I > > > > > believe they don't know the separation we do. The cruel joke > is > > > that > > > > > we are just conscious enough to know the death terror but not > > > > > conscious enough to transcend it. > > > > > > > > Death, what is that? You have only been in contact with death > > > through > > > > your memory. And that memory is timeless. So, death is just a > > word. > > > > And the terror you are experiencing is just a mind projection, > > like > > > > pure awareness dipped in dirty mud of fearful memories. Are you > > sure > > > > that you will die? Are you absolutely sure that you will die? > > > > > > I am absolutely sure the body will die. What I'm not sure of is > that > > > I'm not the body. > > > > > > Shawn > > > > Hi Shawn > > > > Your idea of your own death is of course your own, but I am not > sure > > that my body will ever die. > > > P: You are full of crap! Of that you can be sure. Yes, and that crap has to go! All fear is crap, and I am still full of it. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Shawn " <shawnregan> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Shawn " <shawnregan> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > When you discover you are encased or entombed in this > > mechanical > > > > > > mass of flesh. I remember as a child the disbelief that I > was > > > > > > this " stuff " a machine of blood and guts. It was such a > > terror > > > > that > > > > > > I didn't know how I could live as such. My life, me, was > > > dependent > > > > > > by such a thing. For two weeks I was an anxious basket case. > > > > > > Now I feel like it is a prison and I am at the mercy of it's > > > jokes > > > > > > and cruelty. Lately this anxiety has returned, I suspect it > > > never > > > > > > left, to torment me around my 40th birthday. Everyday I find > > > " me " > > > > in > > > > > > a different environment of mind. Sometimes it is pleasant > > like > > > > > > laying in a hammock on a warm summer day listening to the > > birds > > > > and > > > > > > children play. Other days it is terrifying like someone who > > is > > > > > > scared of heights being dangled from the top of a > skyscraper. > > > Not > > > > to > > > > > > be let go, just dangled. How I appreciate those hammock days > > > like > > > > > > you wouldn't believe. > > > > > > This is however providing me with a crash course of me vs. > > mind > > > > > > although I think I would have preferred the longer way > > although > > > I > > > > > > wasn't as diligent as I could be when I feel ok. The urgency > > is > > > > just > > > > > > not there. > > > > > > How do we manage to live like this? How do we see others > > dying > > > > > > around us and not completely lose it? The animals do it but > I > > > > > > believe they don't know the separation we do. The cruel joke > > is > > > > that > > > > > > we are just conscious enough to know the death terror but > not > > > > > > conscious enough to transcend it. > > > > > > > > > > Death, what is that? You have only been in contact with death > > > > through > > > > > your memory. And that memory is timeless. So, death is just a > > > word. > > > > > And the terror you are experiencing is just a mind projection, > > > like > > > > > pure awareness dipped in dirty mud of fearful memories. Are > you > > > sure > > > > > that you will die? Are you absolutely sure that you will die? > > > > > > > > I am absolutely sure the body will die. What I'm not sure of is > > that > > > > I'm not the body. > > > > > > > > Shawn > > > > > > Hi Shawn > > > > > > Your idea of your own death is of course your own, but I am not > > sure > > > that my body will ever die. > > > > > > P: You are full of crap! Of that you can be sure. > > Yes, and that crap has to go! All fear is crap, and I am still full of > it. :-) P: Fear is not what I meant, and you know it. Fear is a pure emotion stay with it. Really feel it. It's the avoidance via imagination and speculation that fills you with crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > .... > > > > > > P: You are full of crap! Of that you can be sure. > > > > Yes, and that crap has to go! All fear is crap, and I am still full > of > > it. :-) > > P: Fear is not what I meant, and you know it. Fear is a pure > emotion stay with it. Really feel it. It's the avoidance via > imagination and speculation that fills you with crap. A: That's true. Fear in itself is emotion, but often very entangeled with thoughts, plans and ideas about the future. Maybe it's possible to just stay with the feeling of fear itself and not constantly feed it with thoughts and imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > > ... > > > > > > > > P: You are full of crap! Of that you can be sure. > > > > > > Yes, and that crap has to go! All fear is crap, and I am still > full > > of > > > it. :-) > > > > P: Fear is not what I meant, and you know it. Fear is a pure > > emotion stay with it. Really feel it. It's the avoidance via > > imagination and speculation that fills you with crap. > > A: That's true. Fear in itself is emotion, but often very entangeled > with thoughts, plans and ideas about the future. Maybe it's possible > to just stay with the feeling of fear itself and not constantly feed > it with thoughts and imagination. P: Exactly! That's not only possible, it's the only way to stop fearing fear. Then fear is no longe a problem, and only appears when needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Shawn [shawnregan] Sunday, November 14, 2004 1:01 AM Nisargadatta Re: How to live? (Anders) Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Shawn " <shawnregan> wrote: > > > > When you discover you are encased or entombed in this mechanical > > mass of flesh. I remember as a child the disbelief that I was > > this " stuff " a machine of blood and guts. It was such a terror that > > I didn't know how I could live as such. My life, me, was dependent > > by such a thing. For two weeks I was an anxious basket case. > > Now I feel like it is a prison and I am at the mercy of it's jokes > > and cruelty. Lately this anxiety has returned, I suspect it never > > left, to torment me around my 40th birthday. Everyday I find " me " in > > a different environment of mind. Sometimes it is pleasant like > > laying in a hammock on a warm summer day listening to the birds and > > children play. Other days it is terrifying like someone who is > > scared of heights being dangled from the top of a skyscraper. Not to > > be let go, just dangled. How I appreciate those hammock days like > > you wouldn't believe. > > This is however providing me with a crash course of me vs. mind > > although I think I would have preferred the longer way although I > > wasn't as diligent as I could be when I feel ok. The urgency is just > > not there. > > How do we manage to live like this? How do we see others dying > > around us and not completely lose it? The animals do it but I > > believe they don't know the separation we do. The cruel joke is that > > we are just conscious enough to know the death terror but not > > conscious enough to transcend it. > > Death, what is that? You have only been in contact with death through > your memory. And that memory is timeless. So, death is just a word. > And the terror you are experiencing is just a mind projection, like > pure awareness dipped in dirty mud of fearful memories. Are you sure > that you will die? Are you absolutely sure that you will die? I am absolutely sure the body will die. What I'm not sure of is that I'm not the body. >>>>R u absolutely sure abt the Absolute IAM ---- then there will be not talk abt the world + body + bodylessss etc Shawn ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Ramanath, Murali H \(GE Healthcare\) " <Murali.Ramanath@g...> wrote: > > > > Shawn [shawnregan] > Sunday, November 14, 2004 1:01 AM > Nisargadatta > Re: How to live? (Anders) > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Shawn " <shawnregan> > wrote: > > > > > > When you discover you are encased or entombed in this mechanical > > > mass of flesh. I remember as a child the disbelief that I was > > > this " stuff " a machine of blood and guts. It was such a terror > that > > > I didn't know how I could live as such. My life, me, was dependent > > > by such a thing. For two weeks I was an anxious basket case. > > > Now I feel like it is a prison and I am at the mercy of it's jokes > > > and cruelty. Lately this anxiety has returned, I suspect it never > > > left, to torment me around my 40th birthday. Everyday I find " me " > in > > > a different environment of mind. Sometimes it is pleasant like > > > laying in a hammock on a warm summer day listening to the birds > and > > > children play. Other days it is terrifying like someone who is > > > scared of heights being dangled from the top of a skyscraper. Not > to > > > be let go, just dangled. How I appreciate those hammock days like > > > you wouldn't believe. > > > This is however providing me with a crash course of me vs. mind > > > although I think I would have preferred the longer way although I > > > wasn't as diligent as I could be when I feel ok. The urgency is > just > > > not there. > > > How do we manage to live like this? How do we see others dying > > > around us and not completely lose it? The animals do it but I > > > believe they don't know the separation we do. The cruel joke is > that > > > we are just conscious enough to know the death terror but not > > > conscious enough to transcend it. > > > > Death, what is that? You have only been in contact with death > through > > your memory. And that memory is timeless. So, death is just a word. > > And the terror you are experiencing is just a mind projection, like > > pure awareness dipped in dirty mud of fearful memories. Are you sure > > that you will die? Are you absolutely sure that you will die? > > I am absolutely sure the body will die. What I'm not sure of is that > I'm not the body. > >>>>R u absolutely sure abt the Absolute IAM ---- > then there will be not talk abt the world + body + bodylessss etc > > Shawn > How can you be absolutely sure your body will die when you have not experienced that yourself??? What many sages say may be true: the world is in you, not you in the world. Maybe the human body is indestructible and only a shape-shifting package of information in an infinite timeless matrix of awareness. Scientists say that the body is made out of atoms, but also that atoms are neither particles nor waves. See the confusion? Observation creates reality. Who is the observer? /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Ramanath, Murali H \(GE > Healthcare\) " <Murali.Ramanath@g...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Shawn [shawnregan] > > Sunday, November 14, 2004 1:01 AM > > Nisargadatta > > Re: How to live? (Anders) > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Shawn " <shawnregan> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > When you discover you are encased or entombed in this mechanical > > > > mass of flesh. I remember as a child the disbelief that I was > > > > this " stuff " a machine of blood and guts. It was such a terror > > that > > > > I didn't know how I could live as such. My life, me, was > dependent > > > > by such a thing. For two weeks I was an anxious basket case. > > > > Now I feel like it is a prison and I am at the mercy of it's > jokes > > > > and cruelty. Lately this anxiety has returned, I suspect it > never > > > > left, to torment me around my 40th birthday. Everyday I find > " me " > > in > > > > a different environment of mind. Sometimes it is pleasant like > > > > laying in a hammock on a warm summer day listening to the birds > > and > > > > children play. Other days it is terrifying like someone who is > > > > scared of heights being dangled from the top of a skyscraper. > Not > > to > > > > be let go, just dangled. How I appreciate those hammock days > like > > > > you wouldn't believe. > > > > This is however providing me with a crash course of me vs. mind > > > > although I think I would have preferred the longer way although > I > > > > wasn't as diligent as I could be when I feel ok. The urgency is > > just > > > > not there. > > > > How do we manage to live like this? How do we see others dying > > > > around us and not completely lose it? The animals do it but I > > > > believe they don't know the separation we do. The cruel joke is > > that > > > > we are just conscious enough to know the death terror but not > > > > conscious enough to transcend it. > > > > > > Death, what is that? You have only been in contact with death > > through > > > your memory. And that memory is timeless. So, death is just a > word. > > > And the terror you are experiencing is just a mind projection, > like > > > pure awareness dipped in dirty mud of fearful memories. Are you > sure > > > that you will die? Are you absolutely sure that you will die? > > > > I am absolutely sure the body will die. What I'm not sure of is that > > I'm not the body. > > >>>>R u absolutely sure abt the Absolute IAM ---- > > then there will be not talk abt the world + body + bodylessss etc > > > > Shawn > > > > How can you be absolutely sure your body will die when you have not > experienced that yourself??? What many sages say may be true: the > world is in you, not you in the world. Maybe the human body is > indestructible and only a shape-shifting package of information in an > infinite timeless matrix of awareness. Scientists say that the body is > made out of atoms, but also that atoms are neither particles nor > waves. See the confusion? Observation creates reality. Who is the > observer? > > /AL You can define yourself however you want, if it makes you happy. As indestructible, infinite, whatever floats your boat. Or you can say your a descendent from a long line of royalty, or possessed by the archangel Gabriel. Whatever makes you happy. Still, it's just you using flowery-sounding words to create a happy image for yourself. Painting pictures with words that really can't do a damn thing for you, except make you temporarily satisfied with your ability to paint word pictures. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Ramanath, Murali H \(GE > > Healthcare\) " <Murali.Ramanath@g...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Shawn [shawnregan] > > > Sunday, November 14, 2004 1:01 AM > > > Nisargadatta > > > Re: How to live? (Anders) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Shawn " <shawnregan> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > When you discover you are encased or entombed in this > mechanical > > > > > mass of flesh. I remember as a child the disbelief that I was > > > > > this " stuff " a machine of blood and guts. It was such a > terror > > > that > > > > > I didn't know how I could live as such. My life, me, was > > dependent > > > > > by such a thing. For two weeks I was an anxious basket case. > > > > > Now I feel like it is a prison and I am at the mercy of it's > > jokes > > > > > and cruelty. Lately this anxiety has returned, I suspect it > > never > > > > > left, to torment me around my 40th birthday. Everyday I find > > " me " > > > in > > > > > a different environment of mind. Sometimes it is pleasant > like > > > > > laying in a hammock on a warm summer day listening to the > birds > > > and > > > > > children play. Other days it is terrifying like someone who > is > > > > > scared of heights being dangled from the top of a skyscraper. > > Not > > > to > > > > > be let go, just dangled. How I appreciate those hammock days > > like > > > > > you wouldn't believe. > > > > > This is however providing me with a crash course of me vs. > mind > > > > > although I think I would have preferred the longer way > although > > I > > > > > wasn't as diligent as I could be when I feel ok. The urgency > is > > > just > > > > > not there. > > > > > How do we manage to live like this? How do we see others > dying > > > > > around us and not completely lose it? The animals do it but I > > > > > believe they don't know the separation we do. The cruel joke > is > > > that > > > > > we are just conscious enough to know the death terror but not > > > > > conscious enough to transcend it. > > > > > > > > Death, what is that? You have only been in contact with death > > > through > > > > your memory. And that memory is timeless. So, death is just a > > word. > > > > And the terror you are experiencing is just a mind projection, > > like > > > > pure awareness dipped in dirty mud of fearful memories. Are you > > sure > > > > that you will die? Are you absolutely sure that you will die? > > > > > > I am absolutely sure the body will die. What I'm not sure of is > that > > > I'm not the body. > > > >>>>R u absolutely sure abt the Absolute IAM ---- > > > then there will be not talk abt the world + body + bodylessss etc > > > > > > Shawn > > > > > > > How can you be absolutely sure your body will die when you have not > > experienced that yourself??? What many sages say may be true: the > > world is in you, not you in the world. Maybe the human body is > > indestructible and only a shape-shifting package of information in > an > > infinite timeless matrix of awareness. Scientists say that the body > is > > made out of atoms, but also that atoms are neither particles nor > > waves. See the confusion? Observation creates reality. Who is the > > observer? > > > > /AL > > You can define yourself however you want, if it makes you > happy. As indestructible, infinite, whatever floats > your boat. Or you can say your a descendent from a long > line of royalty, or possessed by the archangel Gabriel. > Whatever makes you happy. > > Still, it's just you using flowery-sounding words to create > a happy image for yourself. > > Painting pictures with words that really can't do a damn > thing for you, except make you temporarily satisfied with > your ability to paint word pictures. > > -- Dan I define myself as complexity unfolding in a single explosion. That explosion is happening NOW. All the past is compressed in this zero second thin eternal NOW. Can something timeless die? And what is time other than painting pictures in one's mind - paintings who can only be happening NOW. ;-) /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 > How can you be absolutely sure your body will die when you have not > experienced that yourself??? What many sages say may be true: the > world is in you, not you in the world. Maybe the human body is > indestructible and only a shape-shifting package of information in an > infinite timeless matrix of awareness. Scientists say that the body is > made out of atoms, but also that atoms are neither particles nor > waves. See the confusion? Observation creates reality. Who is the > observer? Anders, I had a slight shift into that state yesterday. I had the best day on about a month and my mind was much more free than my condition has allowed for a while. It's amazing how one doesn't know that one is in a restrictuve box until the box is removed (perhaps for a bigger box) then the remembrance of the larger box comes and one is sad and happy at the same time for knowing what was lost which now is found but for how long. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Shawn " <shawnregan> wrote: > > > How can you be absolutely sure your body will die when you have > not > > experienced that yourself??? What many sages say may be true: the > > world is in you, not you in the world. Maybe the human body is > > indestructible and only a shape-shifting package of information in > an > > infinite timeless matrix of awareness. Scientists say that the > body is > > made out of atoms, but also that atoms are neither particles nor > > waves. See the confusion? Observation creates reality. Who is the > > observer? > > Anders, > > I had a slight shift into that state yesterday. I had the best day > on about a month and my mind was much more free than my condition > has allowed for a while. It's amazing how one doesn't know that one > is in a restrictuve box until the box is removed (perhaps for a > bigger box) then the remembrance of the larger box comes and one is > sad and happy at the same time for knowing what was lost which now > is found but for how long. > > Shawn Hi Shawn, I have myself noticed more clarity and a lessening of anxiety which has been an opening up of the box a little. Although I must admit that I am waiting for a total shattering of the box altogether. My mind still feels like a prison. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > I define myself as complexity unfolding in a single explosion. That > explosion is happening NOW. All the past is compressed in this zero > second thin eternal NOW. Can something timeless die? And what is time > other than painting pictures in one's mind - paintings who can only > be happening NOW. ;-) > > /AL You can define yourself in whatever way you find most pleasing. And no, your self-pictures aren't happening, no matter how pleased you are with them. They are contrivances you'd like to be happening. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " Shawn " <shawnregan> wrote: > > > How can you be absolutely sure your body will die when you have > not > > experienced that yourself??? What many sages say may be true: the > > world is in you, not you in the world. Maybe the human body is > > indestructible and only a shape-shifting package of information in > an > > infinite timeless matrix of awareness. Scientists say that the > body is > > made out of atoms, but also that atoms are neither particles nor > > waves. See the confusion? Observation creates reality. Who is the > > observer? > > Anders, > > I had a slight shift into that state yesterday. I had the best day > on about a month and my mind was much more free than my condition > has allowed for a while. It's amazing how one doesn't know that one > is in a restrictuve box until the box is removed (perhaps for a > bigger box) then the remembrance of the larger box comes and one is > sad and happy at the same time for knowing what was lost which now > is found but for how long. > > Shawn You only know the truth when you're not moving into a state, nor out of a state. There's nothing to grasp here. Not because anything is negated, but because negation and affirmation can't be applied. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > I define myself as complexity unfolding in a single explosion. That > > explosion is happening NOW. All the past is compressed in this zero > > second thin eternal NOW. Can something timeless die? And what is > time > > other than painting pictures in one's mind - paintings who can only > > be happening NOW. ;-) > > > > /AL > > You can define yourself in whatever way you find most > pleasing. > > And no, your self-pictures aren't happening, no matter how > pleased you are with them. > > They are contrivances you'd like to be happening. > > -- Dan I am very pleased with my intellectual idea (speculation) that reality is complexity unfolding in a hierarchical way (wholes within larger wholes, such as atoms are parts of molecules which are parts of cells which are parts of multi-celled organisms). This complexity can be pictured as an infinite and ever expanding tree (of life). This complexity tree is unfolding now as a single ongoing explosion. What scientists call the Big Bang is only a very recent branch on this tree. The further in (in the opposite way of bifurcation) we go, the more into the past we go. The branch called the Big Bang started about 15 billion years ago. The stem of the tree is an infinite number of years old. However, there is in reality only an eternal now in which this tree unfolds. Therefore time is infinitely compressed into this single now. So, what seems like something having taken several years actually takes zero seconds to unfold. I call this instant evolution. The unfolding of complexity will continue forever, and our universe is just a recent branch on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > I am very pleased with my intellectual idea (speculation) that reality > is complexity unfolding in a hierarchical way (wholes within larger > wholes, such as atoms are parts of molecules which are parts of cells > which are parts of multi-celled organisms). That's the point, Anders. You're pleased with yourself and the way you conceptualize things. It's self-involvement. Truth has no place for the self-center. Thus all the speculative self-constructions provide a temporary enjoyment that hides anxiety about what has no place for oneself -- never has and never will. This is what you don't want to face -- and all your self-involved speculations simply occupy your time and distract you. -- Dan (nothing new below) This complexity can be > pictured as an infinite and ever expanding tree (of life). This > complexity tree is unfolding now as a single ongoing explosion. What > scientists call the Big Bang is only a very recent branch on this > tree. The further in (in the opposite way of bifurcation) we go, the > more into the past we go. The branch called the Big Bang started about > 15 billion years ago. The stem of the tree is an infinite number of > years old. However, there is in reality only an eternal now in which > this tree unfolds. Therefore time is infinitely compressed into this > single now. So, what seems like something having taken several years > actually takes zero seconds to unfold. I call this instant evolution. > The unfolding of complexity will continue forever, and our universe is > just a recent branch on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2004 Report Share Posted November 27, 2004 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > I am very pleased with my intellectual idea (speculation) that > reality > > is complexity unfolding in a hierarchical way (wholes within larger > > wholes, such as atoms are parts of molecules which are parts of > cells > > which are parts of multi-celled organisms). > > That's the point, Anders. > > You're pleased with yourself and the way you conceptualize > things. > > It's self-involvement. > > Truth has no place for the self-center. > > Thus all the speculative self-constructions provide > a temporary enjoyment that hides anxiety about > what has no place for oneself -- never has and never will. > > This is what you don't want to face -- and all your > self-involved speculations simply occupy your time > and distract you. > > -- Dan I think you correctly describe the trap of being stuck in fantasy and imagination. Even a very down-to-earth realistic view about the future is still a fantasy in that it is not the truth. Any speculation about the future is a part of the truth, but not the whole truth. This moment right now contains all speculations about the future, both the realistic views about the future and all fanciful wish-work. But this moment is much vaster than all the future. The clear space of now contains all thought stuff, but is infinitely more than that. Just think of all your problems right now, and take a look around you. Is not the now bigger than _all_ your problems? Of course it is, because this moment contains all problems, yours, mine e t c, but all problems of the world could never embrace this moment. /AL > > (nothing new below) > > > This complexity can be > > pictured as an infinite and ever expanding tree (of life). This > > complexity tree is unfolding now as a single ongoing explosion. > What > > scientists call the Big Bang is only a very recent branch on this > > tree. The further in (in the opposite way of bifurcation) we go, > the > > more into the past we go. The branch called the Big Bang started > about > > 15 billion years ago. The stem of the tree is an infinite number of > > years old. However, there is in reality only an eternal now in > which > > this tree unfolds. Therefore time is infinitely compressed into > this > > single now. So, what seems like something having taken several > years > > actually takes zero seconds to unfold. I call this instant > evolution. > > The unfolding of complexity will continue forever, and our universe > is > > just a recent branch on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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