Guest guest Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 I guess SILENCE is the most effective/creative tool in approaching of ANY SUBJECT. SILENCE helps to get rid from any opinions and cliché. This state gives you access to the waterfalls of views, and the right to be detached from them. Peace... Leo Ernie Forteza <erniefii wrote: THE FOLLOWING RESPONSSE IS AIMED AT CLARIFYING THE SENDER'S RESPONSE AND HOPEFULLY GENERATE INTEREST FROM ANYONE TO PURSUE ENLIGHTENING DISCUSSIONS: is it correct to say of the following message by the sender that--- that when one understands the limitation of the human intellect (i.e. the human intellect can only hold an aspect of truth) can there be silence. also, in allowing the thought to surface only when needed gives rise to silence and making thought more effective? if these were so.. how can a state of above thinking be attained when the mind allows itself to generate thoughts? which or who is silent and watchful? what is effective thought? how is it distinct from the ordinary thought the mind creates? anders_lindman <anders_lindman wrote: Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: .... > > When the human intellect understands that it itself cannot hold the > > truth, but is always only an aspect of the truth, the perhaps it > can > > become silent and just watch. Eckhart Tolle talks about a state > above > > thinking where the mind is silent and where thoughts only appear > when > > needed. And in that state thought is much clearer and effective. > Tolle > > talks about the ordinary human mind as " noisy " , and the new state > of > > consciousness as noiseless and more intelligent. > > > > /AL > > So has this understanding made your mind more silent and watchful? A: The horror is that for me fear has increased instead of becoming less. But I do feel a bit of more spaciousness around my fear. In that way, something new has opened up. A few years ago I went through what can be called " the dark night of the soul " , or a kind of severe depression to use a more ordinary explanation. I have never gone back to that deep nightmare again, but fear in me has increased on other levels. There seems to be no end to my " angst " , but I do nowadays often feel an opening up that is a deepening into the present moment. ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > > > > > > > So has this understanding made your mind more silent and watchful? > > > > A: The horror is that for me fear has increased instead of becoming > > less. But I do feel a bit of more spaciousness around my fear. In > that > > way, something new has opened up. A few years ago I went through > what > > can be called " the dark night of the soul " , or a kind of severe > > depression to use a more ordinary explanation. I have never gone > back > > to that deep nightmare again, but fear in me has increased on other > > levels. There seems to be no end to my " angst " , but I do nowadays > > often feel an opening up that is a deepening into the present > moment. > > P: OK, I can relate to that, since I went thru the 'night' for 5 > long years. The spaciousness is a good sign. > > There are two things you can do now: > 1) Look into the posibility that fear could be controlled by > medication. See a Doctor about it. > > 2) Understand thinking won't get rid of fear, or bring more > spaciousness. Only moving away from compulsive thinking and > to a silent watchful mind will do it. It's not that you should > try not to think at all, or make thinking into a tabu, but > that you clearly understand: > a) You are not thought or any other mental or physical activity. > b) Thought is not clarity, and no formulation no matter how > clever would increase the spaciousnes, the silence, and the peace. > c) only mindfulness, watchfulness, attention will do it, and being > in that state daily as often, and for as long as possible should > be your daily practice. > > Best to you, > > Pete Thanks Pete, I think point 2 is a good practice. Nothing wrong with medication, but I think medication should only be used temporarily, or when for example a depression has become utterly unbearable. I see no real difference between for example drinking alcohol and taking drugs given by a doctor. A drug controlled by FDA may have less side effects, but perhaps not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , Ernie Forteza <erniefii> wrote: > > THE FOLLOWING RESPONSSE IS AIMED AT CLARIFYING THE SENDER'S RESPONSE AND HOPEFULLY GENERATE INTEREST FROM ANYONE TO PURSUE ENLIGHTENING DISCUSSIONS: > > is it correct to say of the following message by the sender that--- that when one understands the limitation of the human intellect (i.e. the human intellect can only hold an aspect of truth) can there be silence. also, in allowing the thought to surface only when needed gives rise to silence and making thought more effective? > if these were so.. how can a state of above thinking be attained when the mind allows itself to generate thoughts? which or who is silent and watchful? what is effective thought? how is it distinct from the ordinary thought the mind creates? A: I don't think Tolle mean that there is a " me " allowing thoughts to arise or not arise, but simply that clear presence is noiseless at its foundation, while the ordinary human mind is always " noisy " . > > anders_lindman <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > ... > > > > When the human intellect understands that it itself cannot hold the > > > truth, but is always only an aspect of the truth, the perhaps it > > can > > > become silent and just watch. Eckhart Tolle talks about a state > > above > > > thinking where the mind is silent and where thoughts only appear > > when > > > needed. And in that state thought is much clearer and effective. > > Tolle > > > talks about the ordinary human mind as " noisy " , and the new state > > of > > > consciousness as noiseless and more intelligent. > > > > > > /AL > > > > So has this understanding made your mind more silent and watchful? > > A: The horror is that for me fear has increased instead of becoming > less. But I do feel a bit of more spaciousness around my fear. In that > way, something new has opened up. A few years ago I went through what > can be called " the dark night of the soul " , or a kind of severe > depression to use a more ordinary explanation. I have never gone back > to that deep nightmare again, but fear in me has increased on other > levels. There seems to be no end to my " angst " , but I do nowadays > often feel an opening up that is a deepening into the present moment. > > > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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