Guest guest Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > There are a few things you must learn if you want to become a > sage. > > > > > > 1. Have no fear. > > > 2. Have fun. > > > > > > I'm not claiming to be a sage yet, but that is the state I want to > > > reach as quickly as possibly. :-) > > > > That's why you're not a sage. > > > > And having fun has nothing to do with truth. > > > > Although, of course, it has a lot to do with > > the marketability of certain self-proclaimed > > gurus. > > > > There's a difference between the clarity which is > > full enjoyment of being, and " having fun. " > > > > Full enjoyment of being is just as clear at the > > deepest lows as it is at the highest highs, is > > just as clear in the midst of the greatest confusion > > and fear, as it is in the midst of the most wonderful > > feelings of love. > > > > It has nothing to do with having fun. > > > > -- Dan > > True peace is first needed, and then the fun will be there > automatically. For true peace a state of no fear is needed. > > /AL A state is known in contrast with other states. So, if a state of no fear that one can be in is imagined, along with it has arisen a state of fear one can be in. Thus, noncomparable truth dissolves any and all states, as well as the one which could be in and out of states. What is left is what never began. Your true self, neither entering or leaving nor remaining the same -- nor having states to stay in, or to enter and leave. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > A: The horror is that for me fear has increased instead of becoming > less. But I do feel a bit of more spaciousness around my fear. In that > way, something new has opened up. A few years ago I went through what > can be called " the dark night of the soul " , or a kind of severe > depression to use a more ordinary explanation. I have never gone back > to that deep nightmare again, but fear in me has increased on other > levels. There seems to be no end to my " angst " , but I do nowadays > often feel an opening up that is a deepening into the present moment. Hi Anders, This sounds very honest. Fear seems to be always connected to a thought/image of something which isn't " allowed " to happen, because the thoughts are saying that if it happened, it would destroy us. It's this belief which seems to be causing fear. The only " way " to the end of fear, which I've seen, is to let destroy myself. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > A: The horror is that for me fear has increased instead of becoming > > less. But I do feel a bit of more spaciousness around my fear. In > that > > way, something new has opened up. A few years ago I went through > what > > can be called " the dark night of the soul " , or a kind of severe > > depression to use a more ordinary explanation. I have never gone > back > > to that deep nightmare again, but fear in me has increased on other > > levels. There seems to be no end to my " angst " , but I do nowadays > > often feel an opening up that is a deepening into the present > moment. > > > > Hi Anders, > > This sounds very honest. > Fear seems to be always connected to a thought/image of something > which isn't " allowed " to happen, because the thoughts are saying that > if it happened, it would destroy us. > It's this belief which seems to be causing fear. > The only " way " to the end of fear, which I've seen, is to let destroy > myself. > > Len As I see it, fear is connected to psychological time, and when we identify with our " future me " all the time, then fear will be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > As I see it, fear is connected to psychological time, and when we > identify with our " future me " all the time, then fear will be there. When the fear is there, what happens? Is fear " a problem " ? If yes, what " makes " it into a problem? Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > As I see it, fear is connected to psychological time, and when we > > identify with our " future me " all the time, then fear will be > there. > > > When the fear is there, what happens? > Is fear " a problem " ? > If yes, what " makes " it into a problem? > > Len Well, fear and problems go together. My particular problem is that I have so called " valid " fears about my future economy e t c, but also a constant layer of fear which I feel all the time. I suspect all people have this constant nagging worrying-like fear, but this fear is often hidden behing the hectic lives of most people. I believe this fear is caused by the conflict between the thinking mind's wants for security and permanence and the changing world's impermancence and seemingly inherent insecurity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > As I see it, fear is connected to psychological time, and when we > > > identify with our " future me " all the time, then fear will be > > there. > > > > > > When the fear is there, what happens? > > Is fear " a problem " ? > > If yes, what " makes " it into a problem? > > > > Len > > Well, fear and problems go together. My particular problem is that I > have so called " valid " fears about my future economy e t c, but also a > constant layer of fear which I feel all the time. I suspect all people > have this constant nagging worrying-like fear, but this fear is often > hidden behing the hectic lives of most people. I believe this fear is > caused by the conflict between the thinking mind's wants for security > and permanence and the changing world's impermancence and seemingly > inherent insecurity. Do you want to get rid of fear? Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > <lissbon2002> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > As I see it, fear is connected to psychological time, and when > we > > > > identify with our " future me " all the time, then fear will be > > > there. > > > > > > > > > When the fear is there, what happens? > > > Is fear " a problem " ? > > > If yes, what " makes " it into a problem? > > > > > > Len > > > > Well, fear and problems go together. My particular problem is that I > > have so called " valid " fears about my future economy e t c, but > also a > > constant layer of fear which I feel all the time. I suspect all > people > > have this constant nagging worrying-like fear, but this fear is > often > > hidden behing the hectic lives of most people. I believe this fear > is > > caused by the conflict between the thinking mind's wants for > security > > and permanence and the changing world's impermancence and seemingly > > inherent insecurity. > > > Do you want to get rid of fear? > > Len O, yes sir! Very much so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Do you want to get rid of fear? > > > > Len > > O, yes sir! Very much so. You are the fear you want to get rid of. You are also the wanting to get rid of it. So, you are split. Rather than trying to get rid of fear, examine the split being which is you. The fear, the desire, the intent to get rid of, the intent to hold onto. Be clear on how these constructions arise and seem to interact with objects. Be clear that the objects and the interactor with them, are a mutual co-construction. There is nothing to get rid of. The one getting rid, and that which is to be gotten rid of, mutually arise as co-construction. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Do you want to get rid of fear? > > > > > > Len > > > > O, yes sir! Very much so. > > You are the fear you want to get rid of. > > You are also the wanting to get rid of it. > > So, you are split. > > Rather than trying to get rid of fear, > examine the split being which is you. > > The fear, the desire, the intent to get rid of, > the intent to hold onto. > > Be clear on how these constructions arise > and seem to interact with objects. > > Be clear that the objects and the interactor > with them, are a mutual co-construction. > > There is nothing to get rid of. > > The one getting rid, and that which is to be > gotten rid of, mutually arise as co-construction. > > -- Dan I cannot make myself as fear go away perhaps, but I can hope that it will go away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you want to get rid of fear? > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > O, yes sir! Very much so. > > > > You are the fear you want to get rid of. > > > > You are also the wanting to get rid of it. > > > > So, you are split. > > > > Rather than trying to get rid of fear, > > examine the split being which is you. > > > > The fear, the desire, the intent to get rid of, > > the intent to hold onto. > > > > Be clear on how these constructions arise > > and seem to interact with objects. > > > > Be clear that the objects and the interactor > > with them, are a mutual co-construction. > > > > There is nothing to get rid of. > > > > The one getting rid, and that which is to be > > gotten rid of, mutually arise as co-construction. > > > > -- Dan > > I cannot make myself as fear go away perhaps, but I can hope that it > will go away. P: Hope, is fear in another guise. Is it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you want to get rid of fear? > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > O, yes sir! Very much so. > > > > You are the fear you want to get rid of. > > > > You are also the wanting to get rid of it. > > > > So, you are split. > > > > Rather than trying to get rid of fear, > > examine the split being which is you. > > > > The fear, the desire, the intent to get rid of, > > the intent to hold onto. > > > > Be clear on how these constructions arise > > and seem to interact with objects. > > > > Be clear that the objects and the interactor > > with them, are a mutual co-construction. > > > > There is nothing to get rid of. > > > > The one getting rid, and that which is to be > > gotten rid of, mutually arise as co-construction. > > > > -- Dan > > I cannot make myself as fear go away perhaps, but I can hope that it > will go away. That hoping is your splitness. Are you able to observe this splitness? Can you see how you are doing it? Splitting into doer and done-to, ridder and that to be gotten rid of, hoper and hoped for situation in the future? If not, that doing will attempt self-replication, ad infinitum, and ad nauseum. Only clarity about the doing which you are mistaking as your being, ends it. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you want to get rid of fear? > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > O, yes sir! Very much so. > > > > > > You are the fear you want to get rid of. > > > > > > You are also the wanting to get rid of it. > > > > > > So, you are split. > > > > > > Rather than trying to get rid of fear, > > > examine the split being which is you. > > > > > > The fear, the desire, the intent to get rid of, > > > the intent to hold onto. > > > > > > Be clear on how these constructions arise > > > and seem to interact with objects. > > > > > > Be clear that the objects and the interactor > > > with them, are a mutual co-construction. > > > > > > There is nothing to get rid of. > > > > > > The one getting rid, and that which is to be > > > gotten rid of, mutually arise as co-construction. > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > I cannot make myself as fear go away perhaps, but I can hope that it > > will go away. > > P: Hope, is fear in another guise. Is it not? A: Yes. I forgot that. Hope, at least " serious " hope, is fear I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you want to get rid of fear? > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > O, yes sir! Very much so. > > > > > > You are the fear you want to get rid of. > > > > > > You are also the wanting to get rid of it. > > > > > > So, you are split. > > > > > > Rather than trying to get rid of fear, > > > examine the split being which is you. > > > > > > The fear, the desire, the intent to get rid of, > > > the intent to hold onto. > > > > > > Be clear on how these constructions arise > > > and seem to interact with objects. > > > > > > Be clear that the objects and the interactor > > > with them, are a mutual co-construction. > > > > > > There is nothing to get rid of. > > > > > > The one getting rid, and that which is to be > > > gotten rid of, mutually arise as co-construction. > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > I cannot make myself as fear go away perhaps, but I can hope that it > > will go away. > > That hoping is your splitness. > > Are you able to observe this splitness? > > Can you see how you are doing it? > > Splitting into doer and done-to, ridder > and that to be gotten rid of, hoper and > hoped for situation in the future? > > If not, that doing will attempt self-replication, > ad infinitum, and ad nauseum. > > Only clarity about the doing which you are mistaking > as your being, ends it. > > -- Dan Yes, maybe doing and being are the same " thing " . And that the splitting up doing/being is the illusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> > wrote: > > Do you want to get rid of fear? > > > > Len > > O, yes sir! Very much so. It is possible. Not easy, but possible. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > <lissbon2002> > > wrote: > > > > > Do you want to get rid of fear? > > > > > > Len > > > > O, yes sir! Very much so. > > > It is possible. > Not easy, but possible. > > Len I don't know myself if it is possible, but I know it's not easy. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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