Guest guest Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 And then, to lose is to gain. the predicament is simple, the predicament is identification with activity. The solution is also simple, but unpalatable. Be still, be nothing, is the only solution. What you seek cannot be attained. You want to control activity, and change it so it yields only happiness. This cannot be done Activity will always, somehow, revert to chaos, and bring with it pain. You must clearly see, that you are not thought, action, or change. You are the silence, the stillness, the immutable void. And at this point someone will say, " but action is also the void. " And that's true, but identification with action must go. And only attention will do that. But who is there to pay attention? someone will ask. Never mind that. Don't ask. Just do it. There is no other way to be free from the losing/gaining game. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > And then, to lose is to gain. > the predicament is simple, the > predicament is identification > with activity. The solution is > also simple, but unpalatable. > Be still, be nothing, is the > only solution. What you seek > cannot be attained. You want > to control activity, and change it > so it yields only happiness. This > cannot be done Activity will always, > somehow, revert to chaos, and bring > with it pain. You must clearly see, > that you are not thought, action, > or change. You are the silence, > the stillness, the immutable > void. And at this point someone > will say, " but action is also the > void. " And that's true, but > identification with action must go. > And only attention will do that. > But who is there to pay > attention? someone will ask. > Never mind that. Don't ask. > Just do it. There is no other way > to be free from the losing/gaining > game. > > Pete I would say: there is no way to be free from the game, cause the very attempt to be free from it, is the perpetuation and the essence of the game. The game is either there or not. There is nobody separate from the game to be free from it. There is nobody to disidentify from the action, in other words the one who wants to do that is an image. The action is either taking place or not. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > > > And then, to lose is to gain. > > the predicament is simple, the > > predicament is identification > > with activity. The solution is > > also simple, but unpalatable. > > Be still, be nothing, is the > > only solution. What you seek > > cannot be attained. You want > > to control activity, and change it > > so it yields only happiness. This > > cannot be done Activity will always, > > somehow, revert to chaos, and bring > > with it pain. You must clearly see, > > that you are not thought, action, > > or change. You are the silence, > > the stillness, the immutable > > void. And at this point someone > > will say, " but action is also the > > void. " And that's true, but > > identification with action must go. > > And only attention will do that. > > But who is there to pay > > attention? someone will ask. > > Never mind that. Don't ask. > > Just do it. There is no other way > > to be free from the losing/gaining > > game. > > > > Pete > > > I would say: there is no way to be free from the game, cause the very > attempt to be free from it, is the perpetuation and the essence of > the game. > The game is either there or not. > There is nobody separate from the game to be free from it. > There is nobody to disidentify from the action, in other words the > one who wants to do that is an image. > The action is either taking place or not. > > Len P: You are just saying that. You don't understand that action, you, and identification come and go together. Stop, be alert! That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> > wrote: > > > > > > And then, to lose is to gain. > > > the predicament is simple, the > > > predicament is identification > > > with activity. The solution is > > > also simple, but unpalatable. > > > Be still, be nothing, is the > > > only solution. What you seek > > > cannot be attained. You want > > > to control activity, and change it > > > so it yields only happiness. This > > > cannot be done Activity will always, > > > somehow, revert to chaos, and bring > > > with it pain. You must clearly see, > > > that you are not thought, action, > > > or change. You are the silence, > > > the stillness, the immutable > > > void. And at this point someone > > > will say, " but action is also the > > > void. " And that's true, but > > > identification with action must go. > > > And only attention will do that. > > > But who is there to pay > > > attention? someone will ask. > > > Never mind that. Don't ask. > > > Just do it. There is no other way > > > to be free from the losing/gaining > > > game. > > > > > > Pete > > > > > > I would say: there is no way to be free from the game, cause the > very > > attempt to be free from it, is the perpetuation and the essence of > > the game. > > The game is either there or not. > > There is nobody separate from the game to be free from it. > > There is nobody to disidentify from the action, in other words the > > one who wants to do that is an image. > > The action is either taking place or not. > > > > Len > P: You are just saying that. You don't understand that action, you, > and identification come and go together. Stop, be alert! That's all. The " you " you're talking about is your own imagination and it looks exactly how you want it to look. This can be seen right now. If you want this " you " to stop, you'll have to stop imagining it. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > <lissbon2002> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> > > wrote: P: Did that work for you? lol > The " you " you're talking about is your own imagination and it looks > exactly how you want it to look. > This can be seen right now. > If you want this " you " to stop, you'll have to stop imagining it. > > Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > P: Did that work for you? lol Did what work for me? Len > > The " you " you're talking about is your own imagination and it looks > > exactly how you want it to look. > > This can be seen right now. > > If you want this " you " to stop, you'll have to stop imagining it. > > > > Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > > > P: Did that work for you? lol > > > Did what work for me? > > Len P: Your advice of stop imagining yourself. How is Len now. What is Len here for? To learn? To teach what? Your posts so far seem like you're beating around the bushes looking for someone else's wasps. Come out and say what you have to say. What is your practice, your belief, your theory, or whatever? > > > > > > The " you " you're talking about is your own imagination and it > looks > > > exactly how you want it to look. > > > This can be seen right now. > > > If you want this " you " to stop, you'll have to stop imagining it. > > > > > > Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 P: Your advice of stop imagining yourself. How is Len > now. What is Len here for? To learn? To teach what? > Your posts so far seem like you're beating around > the bushes looking for someone else's wasps. > Come out and say what you have to say. What is > your practice, your belief, your theory, or whatever? devi: i'm intersted in knowing where your at pete, will you tell me? had you managed to stop imagining and realzied the Real? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > P: Your advice of stop imagining yourself. How is Len > now. What is Len here for? To learn? To teach what? > Your posts so far seem like you're beating around > the bushes looking for someone else's wasps. > Come out and say what you have to say. What is > your practice, your belief, your theory, or whatever? My practice, my belief, my theory, my goals are all idea's in your head. You are free to think whatever suits you. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > > > P: Your advice of stop imagining yourself. How is Len > > now. What is Len here for? To learn? To teach what? > > Your posts so far seem like you're beating around > > the bushes looking for someone else's wasps. > > Come out and say what you have to say. What is > > your practice, your belief, your theory, or whatever? > > > My practice, my belief, my theory, my goals are all idea's in your > head. > You are free to think whatever suits you. > > Len devi: that may be true....but, are you completely empty headed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> > wrote: > > > > > > > P: Your advice of stop imagining yourself. How is Len > > > now. What is Len here for? To learn? To teach what? > > > Your posts so far seem like you're beating around > > > the bushes looking for someone else's wasps. > > > Come out and say what you have to say. What is > > > your practice, your belief, your theory, or whatever? > > > > > > My practice, my belief, my theory, my goals are all idea's in your > > head. > > You are free to think whatever suits you. > > > > Len > devi: that may be true....but, are you completely empty headed? Why do you want to know that? Would you agree that my being empty-headed or not, will only fill your head a little bit more? Why do you need an idea about me at all? If your really interested in being empty headed, any idea about me is useless, isn't it? Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2004 Report Share Posted December 1, 2004 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > P: Your advice of stop imagining yourself. How is Len > > > > now. What is Len here for? To learn? To teach what? > > > > Your posts so far seem like you're beating around > > > > the bushes looking for someone else's wasps. > > > > Come out and say what you have to say. What is > > > > your practice, your belief, your theory, or whatever? > > > > > > > > > My practice, my belief, my theory, my goals are all idea's in > your > > > head. > > > You are free to think whatever suits you. > > > > > > Len > > > > devi: that may be true....but, are you completely empty headed? > > > Why do you want to know that? devi:i was wondering why you said that * My practice, my belief, my theory, my goals are all idea's in your head.* pointing to petes... Would you agree that my being empty-headed or not, will only fill your head a little bit more? devi: if it does, so what? Why do you need an idea about me at all? devi: i don't If your really interested in being empty headed, any idea about me is useless, isn't it? devi: i'm just conversing with you becasue you are here to converse with someone..and so am i..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > > > P: Your advice of stop imagining yourself. How is Len > > now. What is Len here for? To learn? To teach what? > > Your posts so far seem like you're beating around > > the bushes looking for someone else's wasps. > > Come out and say what you have to say. What is > > your practice, your belief, your theory, or whatever? > > > My practice, my belief, my theory, my goals are all idea's in your > head. > You are free to think whatever suits you. > > Len P: Frankly, Len, I think you got cold feet. You turned chicken. Do you want to teach Dan and I? Don't be scare teach us. I know you want to, but you scare that we'll show you up. Uh? So stop posting those little snippets you read from Tolle or some other Neo-advaita no do, can do bullshit artist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> wrote: > > P: Your advice of stop imagining yourself. How is Len > > now. What is Len here for? To learn? To teach what? > > Your posts so far seem like you're beating around > > the bushes looking for someone else's wasps. > > Come out and say what you have to say. What is > > your practice, your belief, your theory, or whatever? > > devi: i'm intersted in knowing where your at pete, will you tell me? > had you managed to stop imagining and realzied the Real? P: How come you don't know? Ain't you realized? Aren't realized ppl. supposed to know if another is realized? If you need to ask me, what does that say about you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 pete mused [[be still, be nothing, is the only solution.]] ** i agree. [[Don't ask. Just do it. There is no other way to be free from the losing/gaining game.]] ** there is no losing/gaining b/c there is no 'game.' om peace!.. valarie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> > wrote: > > > > > > > P: Your advice of stop imagining yourself. How is Len > > > now. What is Len here for? To learn? To teach what? > > > Your posts so far seem like you're beating around > > > the bushes looking for someone else's wasps. > > > Come out and say what you have to say. What is > > > your practice, your belief, your theory, or whatever? > > > > > > My practice, my belief, my theory, my goals are all idea's in your > > head. > > You are free to think whatever suits you. > > > > Len > > P: Frankly, Len, I think you got cold feet. You turned chicken. > Do you want to teach Dan and I? Don't be scare teach us. I know you > want to, but you scare that we'll show you up. Uh? So stop posting > those little snippets you read from Tolle or some other Neo-advaita > no do, can do bullshit artist. Please have mercy on me, Pete. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> > wrote: > > > > P: Your advice of stop imagining yourself. How is Len > > > now. What is Len here for? To learn? To teach what? > > > Your posts so far seem like you're beating around > > > the bushes looking for someone else's wasps. > > > Come out and say what you have to say. What is > > > your practice, your belief, your theory, or whatever? > > > > devi: i'm intersted in knowing where your at pete, will you tell me? > > had you managed to stop imagining and realzied the Real? > > P: How come you don't know? Ain't you realized? Aren't realized ppl. > supposed to know if another is realized? If you need to ask me, > what does that say about you? devi: thats called avoidance....! instead of being a straigh shooter you hide behind your questions.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 > > > > > > devi: i'm intersted in knowing where your at pete, will you tell > me? > > > had you managed to stop imagining and realzied the Real? > > > > P: How come you don't know? Ain't you realized? Aren't realized > ppl. > > supposed to know if another is realized? If you need to ask me, > > what does that say about you? > > devi: thats called avoidance....! instead of being a straigh shooter > you hide behind your questions.. P:LOL. No, it's not avoidance. If I answer yes, I am only saying I fit your ideas of enlightenment. If you think, you are enlightened, and if I remember correctly you claim to be so, I would be just saying I'm like you. Well I'm not like you, and I don't consider your ideas of enlightenment, as I remember them, to be correct. So, if you want to continue this, let me know what you think is realization, or enlightenment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > devi: i'm intersted in knowing where your at pete, will you > tell > > me? > > > > had you managed to stop imagining and realzied the Real? > > > > > > P: How come you don't know? Ain't you realized? Aren't realized > > ppl. > > > supposed to know if another is realized? If you need to ask me, > > > what does that say about you? > > > > devi: thats called avoidance....! instead of being a straigh > shooter > > you hide behind your questions.. > > P:LOL. No, it's not avoidance. If I answer yes, I am only saying > I fit your ideas of enlightenment. devi: how do you figure that...you will be fitting your own idea of enlightnened to yourself If you think, you are enlightened, and if I remember correctly you claim to be so, devi: my mistake I would be just saying I'm like you. Well I'm not like you, and I don't consider your ideas of enlightenment, as I remember them, to be correct. devi: o i c So, if you want to continue this, let me know what you think is realization, or enlightenment. devi: i don't think enlightenement has anything to do with *creation* in fact, creation has dissappeared and the Self is all Alone....Awake to Itself only Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 devi: so what is yours pete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> wrote: > > > > devi: so what is yours pete? P: Now who is avoiding? I have written about that many times. There is not any condition an entity could attain that is perfect and permanent. There is direct perception, full attention to the present, clarity, a sense of voidness and freedom, bliss intelligence, wisdom, but no one owns those things. It's the very urge to own, to be, to act and avoid stillness which is the problem we go around and around trying to solve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 devi: so what is yours pete? > > P: Now who is avoiding? devi: i posted my idea about enlightenment a few posts back, you skipped it? > > I have written about that many times. i read what your thoughts are and they seem like *enlightnened* thoghts* > There is not any condition an entity > could attain that is perfect and > permanent. devi: ok i can agree with that, but if someone comes along and says that there is i can agree with that too,, There is direct perception, devi: of what? full attention to the present, clarity, devi: a sense of voidness and freedom, bliss intelligence, wisdom, but no one owns those things. It's the very urge to own, to be, to act and avoid stillness which is the problem we go around and around trying to solve. devi: thats all very well and nice, very *advanced* practice but when you read, say, nizargadatta, and he talkes about the Supreme, are you knowing what he is talking about? when ramana is talking about the Self..do you konw what he is talking..have you expereinced the Self minus everything in creation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2004 Report Share Posted December 2, 2004 Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> wrote: > > devi: so what is yours pete? > > > > P: Now who is avoiding? > > devi: i posted my idea about enlightenment a few posts back, you > skipped it? > > > > I have written about that many times. > > i read what your thoughts are and they seem like *enlightnened* > thoghts* > > > There is not any condition an entity > > could attain that is perfect and > > permanent. > > devi: ok i can agree with that, but if someone comes along and says > that there is i can agree with that too,, > > > There is direct perception, > > devi: of what? P: If there is a what, then it's not direct perception. There is no what, and no perceiver. > > > full attention to the present, clarity, > > devi: > > > a sense of voidness and freedom, bliss intelligence, wisdom, but no > one owns those things. It's the very urge to > own, to be, to act and avoid stillness which is the problem we go > around and around trying to solve. > > devi: thats all very well and nice, very *advanced* practice but > when you read, say, nizargadatta, and he talkes about the Supreme, > are you knowing what he is talking about? when ramana is talking > about the Self..do you konw what he is talking..have you expereinced > the Self minus everything in creation... P: Knowing? There is no knowing the Absolute. When the " I " is not there, what is left, is the unknown, Nis called, the Absolute. So anyone claiming to know, is either mistaken, telling a lie, or using the word very loosely for teaching purposes. So what's your story. Are you, or not? Speak up or.... piss off. ) Yar favorite word! I haven't forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> > wrote: > > > > devi: so what is yours pete? > > > > > > P: Now who is avoiding? > > > > devi: i posted my idea about enlightenment a few posts back, you > > skipped it? > > > > > > I have written about that many times. > > > > i read what your thoughts are and they seem like *enlightnened* > > thoghts* > > > > > There is not any condition an entity > > > could attain that is perfect and > > > permanent. > > > > devi: ok i can agree with that, but if someone comes along and says > > that there is i can agree with that too,, > > > > > > There is direct perception, > > > > devi: of what? > > P: If there is a what, then it's not direct perception. > There is no what, and no perceiver. > > > > > > > full attention to the present, clarity, > > > > devi: > > > > > > a sense of voidness and freedom, bliss intelligence, wisdom, but > no > > one owns those things. It's the very urge to > > own, to be, to act and avoid stillness which is the problem we go > > around and around trying to solve. > > > > devi: thats all very well and nice, very *advanced* practice but > > when you read, say, nizargadatta, and he talkes about the Supreme, > > are you knowing what he is talking about? when ramana is talking > > about the Self..do you konw what he is talking..have you > expereinced > > the Self minus everything in creation... > > P: Knowing? There is no knowing the Absolute. When the " I " is not > there, what is left, is the unknown, Nis called, the Absolute. > So anyone claiming to know, is either mistaken, telling a lie, or > using the word very loosely for teaching purposes. > > So what's your story. Are you, or not? Speak up or.... > piss off. ) Yar favorite word! I haven't forgotten. devi: i serioulsy don't like the term *piss-off* maybe i have written it once..so you must have me confused with someone else..era maybe.... as for my story, i'm not looking to get scrutinized in here again... so, now, harshaji writes about self-realization much better than i, maybe he can repost his *essay* *discourse*...for you to read...or have you already...what he describes i *know* to be right as Self- realization...have yor read any of his writing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2004 Report Share Posted December 3, 2004 Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> > > wrote: > > > > > > devi: so what is yours pete? > > > > > > > > P: Now who is avoiding? > > > > > > devi: i posted my idea about enlightenment a few posts back, you > > > skipped it? > > > > > > > > I have written about that many times. > > > > > > i read what your thoughts are and they seem like *enlightnened* > > > thoghts* > > > > > > > There is not any condition an entity > > > > could attain that is perfect and > > > > permanent. > > > > > > devi: ok i can agree with that, but if someone comes along and > says > > > that there is i can agree with that too,, > > > > > > > > > There is direct perception, > > > > > > devi: of what? > > > > P: If there is a what, then it's not direct perception. > > There is no what, and no perceiver. > > > > > > > > > > > full attention to the present, clarity, > > > > > > devi: > > > > > > > > > a sense of voidness and freedom, bliss intelligence, wisdom, > but > > no > > > one owns those things. It's the very urge to > > > own, to be, to act and avoid stillness which is the problem we > go > > > around and around trying to solve. > > > > > > devi: thats all very well and nice, very *advanced* practice > but > > > when you read, say, nizargadatta, and he talkes about the > Supreme, > > > are you knowing what he is talking about? when ramana is > talking > > > about the Self..do you konw what he is talking..have you > > expereinced > > > the Self minus everything in creation... > > > > P: Knowing? There is no knowing the Absolute. When the " I " is not > > there, what is left, is the unknown, Nis called, the Absolute. > > So anyone claiming to know, is either mistaken, telling a lie, or > > using the word very loosely for teaching purposes. > > > > So what's your story. Are you, or not? Speak up or.... > > piss off. ) Yar favorite word! I haven't forgotten. > > devi: i serioulsy don't like the term *piss-off* maybe i have > written it once..so you must have me confused with someone else..era > maybe.... > > as for my story, i'm not looking to get scrutinized in here again... > > so, now, harshaji writes about self-realization much better than i, > maybe he can repost his *essay* *discourse*...for you to read...or > have you already...what he describes i *know* to be right as Self- > realization...have yor read any of his writing? P: Yes, it was you, two years ago, who took offense when I told you on this list you were as realized as a bag of warm piss. You said that was no way to treat an enlightened being. You also said the word piss revolted you. I'm glad you got over that silly aversion at a harmless word. I'm also glad you have realized that you're not realized. As far as Harsha, he knows what you know, book learning. I'm not interested in what people know. But if you want to discuss your own insights, I'll listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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