Guest guest Posted December 4, 2004 Report Share Posted December 4, 2004 The enlightened do not ask what is enlightenment or atonement. - <Nisargadatta > <Nisargadatta > Saturday, December 04, 2004 12:39 AM Digest Number 1547 There are 23 messages in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Re: To be a sage / Anders " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 2. Re: To be a sage / Anders " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman 3. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Devi / Len " dan330033 " <berkowd 4. Re: How to live? / Anders " dan330033 " <berkowd 5. Re: Fear and Time / Anders " dan330033 " <berkowd 6. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Devi / Len " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 7. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Devi / Len " devianandi " <polansky 8. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose, " devianandi " <polansky 9. Re: How to live? / Anders " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman 10. Re: Fear and Time / Anders " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman 11. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Len " dan330033 " <berkowd 12. Re: Fear and Time / Anders " dan330033 " <berkowd 13. Re: Again, /Devi watch your tone of voice ! " Era " <mi_nok 14. Re: Again/ Devi watch your tone of voice ! " Era " <mi_nok 15. Re: Again/ Devi watch your tone of voice ! " devianandi " <polansky 16. Re: Again/ Devi watch your tone of voice ! " Era " <mi_nok 17. Re: Fear and Time / Anders " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman 18. Re: Fear and Time / Anders " dan330033 " <berkowd 19. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Devi / Len " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 20. Re: To be a sage / Anders " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 21. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Devi / Len " devianandi " <polansky 22. Re: Digest Number 1545 " DAVID MILLER " <soloton10 23. Re: Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Devi Harsha ______________________ ______________________ Message: 1 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 12:39:02 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: To be a sage / Anders Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > As I see it, fear is connected to psychological time, and when we > identify with our " future me " all the time, then fear will be there. When the fear is there, what happens? Is fear " a problem " ? If yes, what " makes " it into a problem? Len ______________________ ______________________ Message: 2 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 13:38:58 -0000 " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman Re: To be a sage / Anders Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > As I see it, fear is connected to psychological time, and when we > > identify with our " future me " all the time, then fear will be > there. > > > When the fear is there, what happens? > Is fear " a problem " ? > If yes, what " makes " it into a problem? > > Len Well, fear and problems go together. My particular problem is that I have so called " valid " fears about my future economy e t c, but also a constant layer of fear which I feel all the time. I suspect all people have this constant nagging worrying-like fear, but this fear is often hidden behing the hectic lives of most people. I believe this fear is caused by the conflict between the thinking mind's wants for security and permanence and the changing world's impermancence and seemingly inherent insecurity. ______________________ ______________________ Message: 3 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 15:13:03 -0000 " dan330033 " <berkowd Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Devi / Len Hi Len -- Lots of thoughts going on in there, huh? (nothing new below) -- Dan (nothing new below) Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> > wrote: > > Hi Devi, > > > devi: so you can honestly say that you have no practice, no belief, > > no theory and no goals...be honest..i would like to know if dan was > > really making stories up about you in his head... > > > Dan was really making stories up about me in his head. > This happens every time we meet somebody and make an opinion about > him. > It doesn't really matter whether the person believes in some stories > about himself or not. > This person's self-image is one thing. > The image YOU make of this person is another thing. > I may be full of stories about myself, yet you don't necessary need > to believe them. I might have no story about myself whatsoever, still > you might produce your own story about me. > What you think about me, is your business, what I think about myself, > is mine. > They seem connected, but if you carefully observe the content of > images, you can see that the self-image of a person is often very > different from the image somebody else has of him. So, these are in > fact two different stories. > I may create an image of myself, in function of my beliefs and > conditioning, and you may create a completely different image of me, > in function of YOUR beliefs and conditioning. > The image you make of me, is you, not me. > We could talk here about what I believe or not, but the thing is, > that there is nothing I believe strongly enough to take it seriously. > I may believe something one moment, and next second - not believe it. > Some beliefs may be there, from time to time, but what isn't there, > is a belief in their consistency, tangibility. It's a game of > thoughts, constantly changing. > Seeing this makes the exchange of images about each other less > attractive, at the same time it increases the interest in observing > the mechanism of image-making. > It's amazing to see how practically all human contacts are based on > the exchange of images, and how these images constantly create an > imaginary separation between people. > People are not only offending and hurting each other, they are > killing each other because of the image of the other THEY are > creating in their own head. > It's most important to see that. > > > > devi: i'm not attahced to having an empty head, truth-revealing > > thoughts are even welcome...its ignorant thought that is a cause of > > suffering and i try and avoid them... > > > We cannot communicate on this site without thoughts. > Also the body cannot properly take care of itself, without thoughts. > Being " attached " to having an empty head, means to keep thinking > about it. > Thinking about an empty head is still filling our head. > So, this is certainly pointless. > I'm not talking about the absence of thoughts, which are necessary, > from time to time at least, but about clearly seeing what the self- > image and the images we constantly create about others, are made of, > and how it affects the way we deal with each other and with all life. > > Take care, > Len ______________________ ______________________ Message: 4 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 15:20:14 -0000 " dan330033 " <berkowd Re: How to live? / Anders Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > If one's being is not invested in time, that would be a tremendous > liberation I think. An intellectual idea about it is not liberation, > but it's a start. I feel I am on my way to loosen up my stern > intellectual view. Maybe you have already stepped beyond time as a > primary focus and are now in a state of clarity. Hi Anders -- Clarity isn't a state I can be in. Clarity is what is, regardless of comings and goings of various " I's " who imagine states they can be in and out of. One actually doesn't have the option to invest in time. However, one may believe one has that option, and so may try to maintain investments in time which one never actually has. Clarity, being what is, relieves that mistaken notion of an option for an ongoing existence in time, as one is now ready to drop dead, to fall apart, to be. And one can't manufacture the dissolution of what one never had in the first place. It's simply unavoidable this instant of " no self-replication. " -- Dan ______________________ ______________________ Message: 5 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 15:24:54 -0000 " dan330033 " <berkowd Re: Fear and Time / Anders Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > As I see it, fear is connected to psychological time, and when we > identify with our " future me " all the time, then fear will be there. Yes, psychological fear is the basis for psychological time, a primary fear being " I'll lose my existence. " But there are other fears too, like, " I'll lose what gives me pleasure " or " I'll have to go on dealing with this stress. " Psychological time has to do not just with the future (which is a projection of the past) but with the sense of time passing, in which things are gained and lost, for an ongoing self, which is trying to establish its own security, and avoid its own loss. Nonetheless, that self is nothing but the fear of not having security, and of losing the basis of ongoing experience. -- Dan ______________________ ______________________ Message: 6 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 16:29:52 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Devi / Len Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> wrote: > > Hi Len -- > > Lots of thoughts going on in there, huh? > > (nothing new below) > > -- Dan > > (nothing new below) What else do you expect to find in a mailing group? Shall I send you some nice photographs? ;-) Len ______________________ ______________________ Message: 7 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 16:57:15 -0000 " devianandi " <polansky Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Devi / Len Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> wrote: > > > > Hi Len -- > > > > Lots of thoughts going on in there, huh? > > > > (nothing new below) > > > > -- Dan > > > > (nothing new below) > > > What else do you expect to find in a mailing group? > Shall I send you some nice photographs? ;-) devi: hi len, that would be nice...do you know how to upload pictures? ______________________ ______________________ Message: 8 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 17:11:38 -0000 " devianandi " <polansky Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose, > > > So what's your story. Are you, or not? > era: Devi realized ? devi: oh great era, you've found another opportunity to advertize me as a self-realized being... Devi posts all over the net, that she did *realize the Self devi: lets get more precise, i think i've mentionion it in guru ratings, and here,,,maybe you can name a few other places...*all over the net* is a huge lie... era:what means of course, that her imagined state equals of that of Raman Maharshi devi: all realized being have realized the Self...some sit absorbed in the Self like ramana or baba hari dass amachi, others just go about raising families going to jobs...who knows... era:I arrest my case ! devi: i wish someone would arrest you era: -her own master Hari Dass denies all her claims .. devi: here is a perfect example of a person (era) who loves to make up stories in her head, not only ignorant but totally deluded....tell me, who did he deny my claims to, does he even know i make any claim...i don't think so.. era: and so did the authorities set up to judge who are able to think clearly devi: ok, era, name some names...who are these authories? jody? pete: Speak up or.... piss off. ) Yar favorite word! I haven't forgotten. devi: i serioulsy don't like the term *piss-off* maybe i have written it once..so you must have me confused with someone else..era maybe.... era: no, not in my vocabulary devi: oh really, well your heads always in the toilet bowl so i just assumed... devi: how did it feel to get thrown out of another club the other day becasue you harass me..is this about the 7th club you've been thrown out of because you are obsesseed with tryng to hurt me, humilite me.prove that i am not realized...you do realize that most everyone thinks your mentally ill..sad era...get some help > > > ______________________ ______________________ Message: 9 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 18:25:25 -0000 " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman Re: How to live? / Anders Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > If one's being is not invested in time, that would be a tremendous > > liberation I think. An intellectual idea about it is not liberation, > > but it's a start. I feel I am on my way to loosen up my stern > > intellectual view. Maybe you have already stepped beyond time as a > > primary focus and are now in a state of clarity. > > Hi Anders -- > > Clarity isn't a state I can be in. > > Clarity is what is, regardless of > comings and goings of various " I's " > who imagine states they can be > in and out of. > > One actually doesn't have the option to > invest in time. > > However, one may believe one has that option, > and so may try to maintain investments in > time which one never actually has. > > Clarity, being what is, relieves that mistaken > notion of an option for an ongoing existence > in time, as one is now ready to drop dead, to fall > apart, to be. > > And one can't manufacture the dissolution of what > one never had in the first place. > > It's simply unavoidable this instant of " no self-replication. " > > -- Dan Hi Dan, Thanks. That was clearly written. ______________________ ______________________ Message: 10 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 18:30:20 -0000 " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman Re: Fear and Time / Anders Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > As I see it, fear is connected to psychological time, and when we > > identify with our " future me " all the time, then fear will be there. > > Yes, psychological fear is the basis for psychological time, > a primary fear being " I'll lose my existence. " But there > are other fears too, like, " I'll lose what gives me pleasure " > or " I'll have to go on dealing with this stress. " > > Psychological time > has to do not just with the future (which is a projection > of the past) but with the sense of time passing, in which > things are gained and lost, for an ongoing self, which is > trying to establish its own security, and avoid its own loss. > > Nonetheless, that self is nothing but the fear of not having > security, and of losing the basis of ongoing > experience. > > -- Dan The funny thing about fear of loss is that it only a projection from this now which is never lost. The now just is, complete, now, including any projection. ______________________ ______________________ Message: 11 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 18:42:09 -0000 " dan330033 " <berkowd Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Len Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> wrote: > > > > Hi Len -- > > > > Lots of thoughts going on in there, huh? > > > > (nothing new below) > > > > -- Dan > > > > > What else do you expect to find in a mailing group? > Shall I send you some nice photographs? ;-) > > Len Not interested. -- Dan ______________________ ______________________ Message: 12 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 18:54:04 -0000 " dan330033 " <berkowd Re: Fear and Time / Anders Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > The funny thing about fear of loss is that it only a projection from > this now which is never lost. The now just is, complete, now, > including any projection. How can there be any projection from something complete? There's no place else to project anything. Not even the idea of " completeness. " -- Dan ______________________ ______________________ Message: 13 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 19:02:58 -0000 " Era " <mi_nok Re: Again, /Devi watch your tone of voice ! > era: -her own master Hari Dass denies all > her claims .. > devi: here is a perfect example of a person (era) who loves to make > up stories in her head, not only ignorant but totally > deluded....tell me, who did he deny my claims to, I am lazy to look up the post, where he answered to your question; if you are realized or not so what did Hari Dass say about your enlightenment? I'm sure you remember > does he even know > i make any claim...i don't think so.. > > era: and so did the authorities set up to judge who are able to > think clearly > > devi: ok, era, name some names...who are these authories? I think you know which authoroty Era watch your tone voice and name callings! ______________________ ______________________ Message: 14 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 19:26:32 -0000 " Era " <mi_nok Re: Again/ Devi watch your tone of voice ! > era: -her own master Hari Dass denies all > her claims .. > devi: here is a perfect example of a person (era) who loves to make > up stories in her head, not only ignorant but totally > deluded....tell me, who did he deny my claims to, I am lazy to look up the post, where he answered to your question; if you are realized or not so what did Hari Dass say about your enlightenment? I'm sure you remember > does he even know > i make any claim...i don't think so.. > > era: and so did the authorities set up to judge who are able to > think clearly > > devi: ok, era, name some names...who are these authories? jody? I think you know which authority Era ______________________ ______________________ Message: 15 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 20:26:56 -0000 " devianandi " <polansky Re: Again/ Devi watch your tone of voice ! aRe: Again/ Devi watch your tone of voice ! devi: your deluded mind is making up tones in your head...have it your way.... era: -her own master Hari Dass denies all her claims .. devi: here is a perfect example of a person (era) who loves to make up stories in her head, not only ignorant but totally deluded....tell me, who did he deny my claims to, era: I am lazy to look up the post, where he answered to your question; if you are realized or not devi: i did not ask him if i was realized or not, so again, you are making up stories in your mind era: so what did Hari Dass say about your enlightenment? I'm sure you remember devi: of course i remember..i remember almost every written communication i ever had with him.. > > > > does he even know > > i make any claim...i don't think so.. > > era: and so did the authorities set up to judge who are able to think clearly devi: ok, era, name some names...who are these authories? jody? era:I think you know which authority devi: no really, i never heard who you think is an authority. tell us... ______________________ ______________________ Message: 16 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:14:49 -0000 " Era " <mi_nok Re: Again/ Devi watch your tone of voice ! > era: -her own master Hari Dass denies all > her claims .. > era: so what did Hari Dass say about your enlightenment? > I'm sure you remember > devi: of course i remember..i remember almost every written > communication i ever had with him.. --good, I remembered this one too...and I just reminded you of your " enlightenment " ______________________ ______________________ Message: 17 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 22:46:56 -0000 " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman Re: Fear and Time / Anders Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > The funny thing about fear of loss is that it only a projection from > > this now which is never lost. The now just is, complete, now, > > including any projection. > > How can there be any projection from something complete? > > There's no place else to project anything. > > Not even the idea of " completeness. " > > -- Dan The now is complete, but not yet. :-) ______________________ ______________________ Message: 18 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 22:58:35 -0000 " dan330033 " <berkowd Re: Fear and Time / Anders Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > The funny thing about fear of loss is that it only a projection from > > > this now which is never lost. The now just is, complete, now, > > > including any projection. > > > > How can there be any projection from something complete? > > > > There's no place else to project anything. > > > > Not even the idea of " completeness. " > > > > -- Dan > > The now is complete, but not yet. :-) If something can be complete, then something else is incomplete. Otherwise, there would be no way to detect, feel, talk about " completion " or " being complete. " If there is nothing else, there isn't anything. If there isn't anything, there isn't nothing. If there isn't is, there isn't isn't. -- Dan ______________________ ______________________ Message: 19 Fri, 03 Dec 2004 23:07:29 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Devi / Len Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > <lissbon2002> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Len -- > > > > > > Lots of thoughts going on in there, huh? > > > > > > (nothing new below) > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > (nothing new below) > > > > > > What else do you expect to find in a mailing group? > > Shall I send you some nice photographs? ;-) > > devi: hi len, that would be nice...do you know how to upload > pictures? Normally I do. But it seems that the owner of this group has removed this possibility. Maybe you can ask him. Len ______________________ ______________________ Message: 20 Sat, 04 Dec 2004 00:02:33 -0000 " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002 Re: To be a sage / Anders Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > As I see it, fear is connected to psychological time, and when we > > > identify with our " future me " all the time, then fear will be > > there. > > > > > > When the fear is there, what happens? > > Is fear " a problem " ? > > If yes, what " makes " it into a problem? > > > > Len > > Well, fear and problems go together. My particular problem is that I > have so called " valid " fears about my future economy e t c, but also a > constant layer of fear which I feel all the time. I suspect all people > have this constant nagging worrying-like fear, but this fear is often > hidden behing the hectic lives of most people. I believe this fear is > caused by the conflict between the thinking mind's wants for security > and permanence and the changing world's impermancence and seemingly > inherent insecurity. Do you want to get rid of fear? Len ______________________ ______________________ Message: 21 Sat, 04 Dec 2004 00:55:22 -0000 " devianandi " <polansky Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Devi / Len Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > > <lissbon2002> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Len -- > > > > > > > > Lots of thoughts going on in there, huh? > > > > > > > > (nothing new below) > > > > > > > > -- Dan > > > > > > > > (nothing new below) > > > > > > > > > What else do you expect to find in a mailing group? > > > Shall I send you some nice photographs? ;-) > > > > devi: hi len, that would be nice...do you know how to upload > > pictures? > > > Normally I do. But it seems that the owner of this group has removed > this possibility. Maybe you can ask him. > > Len devi: why not come over to this other club..you can put your picture there...and....there are some really nice people to chit chat with maybe even pick up some more enlightnement!..ask and yea shall receive ______________________ ______________________ Message: 22 Fri, 3 Dec 2004 21:29:41 -0700 " DAVID MILLER " <soloton10 Re: Digest Number 1545 There is only one mind and it is your mind. Any thought you are experiencing other than this thought is not thinking it is an illusion. You have fallen for the insanity of the ego. There is only one ego and you created it. You did this when you denied your true nature and turned away from your self. You had to create this ego self to protect yourself from seeing the reality of yourself. This ego is everything you think and experience as reality. It is illusory and thus has no real existence. That is why it makes no since and is always turning into something else. This rift is healing when you experience relief from suffering but time is neccessary to permit the remembrance because if you remembered all at once you would experience it as your reality disintegrating and panic. So you experience a gradual letting go. The illusion begins to seem lighter and more transparent. The experience is one of joy. This does not mean you have arrived just that you are going back. When you arrive the dream vanishes and is not even a memory. It is gone just like the memory of the dream you had two nights ago. You will not remember it because it never really existed. This remembrance can not be done without your spirit guides help. He will mediate the process over time for you and bring you to the threshold. Once there the transformation is instant and automatic. There is no biology nor is there a Master this or that. There is only you making all of it up for yourself. You can dream it anyway you wish and it will happen if you accept this fact totally. Your doubt is the ego thought system you created. It is only a thought that separates you from reality. It is an insane thought at that. Know this and you will be in total bliss instantly because that is what you are and always will be. Have no fear on this. Ask for perception of this and you will have it. The key is you must ask and be willing to receive help. You are trying to do it alone and you will spend forever this way. Save time, get help. Why suffer this one minute more than you must. All this talk is a waist of time at best and damaging and vicious at worst. Calling each other names is ego centered attack based on acceptance of the ego's thought system. Use Your spirit guide. Ask him to take charge of the ego for you and deliver it to him humbly asking for help and see what happens. Stop bickering with yourself, this is an ego set up! - <Nisargadatta > <Nisargadatta > Thursday, December 02, 2004 2:55 PM Digest Number 1545 > > > There are 6 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: What is Enlightenment - on the Kalki Avatar > " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004 > 2. Re: Re: What is Enlightenment - on the Kalki Avatar > Dave Sirjue <davesirjue > 3. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose, > " devianandi " <polansky > 4. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose, > " devianandi " <polansky > 5. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose, > " cerosoul " <Pedsie2 > 6. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose, > " devianandi " <polansky > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 1 > Thu, 02 Dec 2004 18:32:54 -0000 > " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004 > Re: What is Enlightenment - on the Kalki Avatar > > > > I have never heard such a stupid thing. Enlightenment a biological > process!!! Are you stupids or what? Did Master Nis said that? Or > Ramana or Osho or the buddha or Krishna??? Oh of course you believe > every punk that clames he is enlighten! Here below are some comments > concerning U.G. Krishnamurti said by Master Osho. Who is an > Enlighten Master, as Ramana as master Nis. etc. You are & ^ & %$#@ > blind man!! It's incredible. And You like it!! that's the worse > part. You enjoy your farts. You like the smell of it. And you call > that freedom. You are slaves of your minds and you think you have > transcend it!! You have no clue what Enlightement is. So you say it > doesn't exist. One person, not me, is telling you to overcome your > toughts to evercome your mind because you cannot go beyond with your > thoughts. But you don't care because if you admit that you cannot > master your toughts that means you are not Awaken. You don't want to > hear this. And this give you fear etc. You cannot tell yourself I > don't know. All you can do Is talk to say stupid things. You don't > respect nothing. You are mad dogs! You are bitting yourself and say > but no, there is no body there??? Fouls, until when are you going to > enjoy craziness. Listen to the Masters and Awake. Just Master Nis is > enough. You have also Ramana, Buddha, Krishna, Osho and many others. > And by the way there is not a ^%$# thing called cyber guru. This is > bull & *#$. Sexuality is not pornography.You will never be able to > make love to a woman throught your computer. This is madness. This > is the teenager dream. You cannot compare the real woman with her > picture on the screen!!! Are you nuts or what. Believing that you > can become Enlighten throught the internet. Without any effort. Just > because HUMM Oh it is a biological process now!!! That is your > wisdom. That is your enlightement. Oh I forgot. There is nobody to > be enlighten!!! etc etc. You know nothing and you talk like ladys in > front of their cup of tea. > > Deviandi did a very nice resume about master Nis teachings have you > red it? have you understand it? Have you master it? Ohhh of course > you did? This is old stuff for you guys hein!!! You already knew all > that. Here is Osho comments on U.G. Krishnamurti. If you think that > UG is enlighten well think it twice. > > www.otoons.de/osho/askosho_u.g.krishnamurti.htm > > Oh I remember someone telling me that advaita purpuse was to only > ask questions not getting answers. Oh Ramana, and Master Nis were > advaitans and they awake? How come? Stop dreaming about it. and > start a true sadhana. > > Bla bla bla.... bunch of crakers!!! > > Odysseus, > > ******************************************************************** > > friends... may interest some of you. Seems worthwhile >> checking out his website at >> /www.experiencefestival.com/kalki >> >> Interesting to hear the comments of Sarlo or Greig. >> >> During my last encounter with UG Krishnamurti several >> years ago, he remarked that this thing referred to as >> " enlightenment " was fundamentally a biological >> process, a sort of mutation that occurs outside of >> time and self-effort. There is an uncanny similarity >> with what is said here. Except for usual >> double-binding linguistic syntax like " you " becoming >> enlightened since clearly there is no " you " to become >> enlightened...what's pointed to should be focused >> upon. >> >> -dave >> ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 2 > Thu, 2 Dec 2004 11:30:52 -0800 (PST) > Dave Sirjue <davesirjue > Re: Re: What is Enlightenment - on the Kalki Avatar > > Hey Mister, > > Is this the way you engage in > intelligent conversations..with > no respect or regard to the > alternative views ? > > Your spirituality stinks, > I suggest you relax and accept > yourself bodily, right here and now. > > ...or else go park your neurosis > where it belongs, where other > neurotics meet. > > Clearly you're a very disturbed > and unhappy individual that need > help...from what I sense some nut > guru disturbed your mind sometime > in the past...your attitude is remniscent > of the crackpot Adi Da, the exclusive one > and only one. > > -dave > > > --- ilikezen2004 <ilikezen2004 wrote: > >> >> >> I have never heard such a stupid thing. >> Enlightenment a biological >> process!!! Are you stupids or what? Did Master Nis >> said that? Or >> Ramana or Osho or the buddha or Krishna??? Oh of >> course you believe >> every punk that clames he is enlighten! Here below >> are some comments >> concerning U.G. Krishnamurti said by Master Osho. >> Who is an >> Enlighten Master, as Ramana as master Nis. etc. You >> are & ^ & %$#@ >> blind man!! It's incredible. And You like it!! >> that's the worse >> part. You enjoy your farts. You like the smell of >> it. And you call >> that freedom. You are slaves of your minds and you >> think you have >> transcend it!! You have no clue what Enlightement >> is. So you say it >> doesn't exist. One person, not me, is telling you to >> overcome your >> toughts to evercome your mind because you cannot go >> beyond with your >> thoughts. But you don't care because if you admit >> that you cannot >> master your toughts that means you are not Awaken. >> You don't want to >> hear this. And this give you fear etc. You cannot >> tell yourself I >> don't know. All you can do Is talk to say stupid >> things. You don't >> respect nothing. You are mad dogs! You are bitting >> yourself and say >> but no, there is no body there??? Fouls, until when >> are you going to >> enjoy craziness. Listen to the Masters and Awake. >> Just Master Nis is >> enough. You have also Ramana, Buddha, Krishna, Osho >> and many others. >> And by the way there is not a ^%$# thing called >> cyber guru. This is >> bull & *#$. Sexuality is not pornography.You will >> never be able to >> make love to a woman throught your computer. This is >> madness. This >> is the teenager dream. You cannot compare the real >> woman with her >> picture on the screen!!! Are you nuts or what. >> Believing that you >> can become Enlighten throught the internet. Without >> any effort. Just >> because HUMM Oh it is a biological process now!!! >> That is your >> wisdom. That is your enlightement. Oh I forgot. >> There is nobody to >> be enlighten!!! etc etc. You know nothing and you >> talk like ladys in >> front of their cup of tea. >> >> Deviandi did a very nice resume about master Nis >> teachings have you >> red it? have you understand it? Have you master it? >> Ohhh of course >> you did? This is old stuff for you guys hein!!! You >> already knew all >> that. Here is Osho comments on U.G. Krishnamurti. If >> you think that >> UG is enlighten well think it twice. >> >> www.otoons.de/osho/askosho_u.g.krishnamurti.htm >> >> Oh I remember someone telling me that advaita >> purpuse was to only >> ask questions not getting answers. Oh Ramana, and >> Master Nis were >> advaitans and they awake? How come? Stop dreaming >> about it. and >> start a true sadhana. >> >> Bla bla bla.... bunch of crakers!!! >> >> Odysseus, >> >> > > > > > > > Mail - You care about security. So do we. > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 3 > Thu, 02 Dec 2004 20:07:52 -0000 > " devianandi " <polansky > Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose, > > > Nisargadatta , " cerosoul " <Pedsie2@a...> wrote: >> >> >> > > > >> > > > devi: i'm intersted in knowing where your at pete, will you >> tell >> > me? >> > > > had you managed to stop imagining and realzied the Real? >> > > >> > > P: How come you don't know? Ain't you realized? Aren't > realized >> > ppl. >> > > supposed to know if another is realized? If you need to ask > me, >> > > what does that say about you? >> > >> > devi: thats called avoidance....! instead of being a straigh >> shooter >> > you hide behind your questions.. >> >> P:LOL. No, it's not avoidance. If I answer yes, I am only saying >> I fit your ideas of enlightenment. > > devi: how do you figure that...you will be fitting your own idea of > enlightnened to yourself > > > If you think, you are enlightened, and if I remember correctly you > claim to be so, > > devi: my mistake > > > I would be just saying I'm like you. > Well I'm not like you, and I don't consider your ideas of > enlightenment, as I remember them, to be correct. > > devi: o i c > > > So, if you want to continue this, let me know what you think > is realization, or enlightenment. > > devi: i don't think enlightenement has anything to do with *creation* > in fact, creation has dissappeared and the Self is all > Alone....Awake to Itself only > > > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 4 > Thu, 02 Dec 2004 20:09:58 -0000 > " devianandi " <polansky > Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose, > > > > > devi: so what is yours pete? > > > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 5 > Thu, 02 Dec 2004 20:38:07 -0000 > " cerosoul " <Pedsie2 > Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose, > > > Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> > wrote: >> >> >> >> devi: so what is yours pete? > > P: Now who is avoiding? > > I have written about that many times. > There is not any condition an entity > could attain that is perfect and > permanent. There is direct perception, > full attention to the present, clarity, > a sense of voidness and freedom, bliss > intelligence, wisdom, but no one owns > those things. It's the very urge to > own, to be, to act and avoid stillness > which is the problem we go around and > around trying to solve. ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 6 > Thu, 02 Dec 2004 21:27:35 -0000 > " devianandi " <polansky > Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose, > > > devi: so what is yours pete? >> >> P: Now who is avoiding? > > devi: i posted my idea about enlightenment a few posts back, you > skipped it? >> >> I have written about that many times. > > i read what your thoughts are and they seem like *enlightnened* > thoghts* > >> There is not any condition an entity >> could attain that is perfect and >> permanent. > > devi: ok i can agree with that, but if someone comes along and says > that there is i can agree with that too,, > > > There is direct perception, > > devi: of what? > > > full attention to the present, clarity, > > devi: > > > a sense of voidness and freedom, bliss intelligence, wisdom, but no > one owns those things. It's the very urge to > own, to be, to act and avoid stillness which is the problem we go > around and around trying to solve. > > devi: thats all very well and nice, very *advanced* practice but > when you read, say, nizargadatta, and he talkes about the Supreme, > are you knowing what he is talking about? when ramana is talking > about the Self..do you konw what he is talking..have you expereinced > the Self minus everything in creation... > > > > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta > group and click on Save Changes. > > ------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Nisargadatta , " DAVID MILLER " <soloton10@e...> wrote: > > > The enlightened do not ask what is enlightenment or atonement. > - > <Nisargadatta > > <Nisargadatta > > Saturday, December 04, 2004 12:39 AM > Digest Number 1547 > > > > > There are 23 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: To be a sage / Anders > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> > 2. Re: To be a sage / Anders > " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> > 3. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Devi / Len > " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> > 4. Re: How to live? / Anders > " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> > 5. Re: Fear and Time / Anders > " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> > 6. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Devi / Len > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> > 7. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Devi / Len > " devianandi " <polansky@m...> > 8. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose, > " devianandi " <polansky@m...> > 9. Re: How to live? / Anders > " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> > 10. Re: Fear and Time / Anders > " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> > 11. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Len > " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> > 12. Re: Fear and Time / Anders > " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> > 13. Re: Again, /Devi watch your tone of voice ! > " Era " <mi_nok> > 14. Re: Again/ Devi watch your tone of voice ! > " Era " <mi_nok> > 15. Re: Again/ Devi watch your tone of voice ! > " devianandi " <polansky@m...> > 16. Re: Again/ Devi watch your tone of voice ! > " Era " <mi_nok> > 17. Re: Fear and Time / Anders > " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> > 18. Re: Fear and Time / Anders > " dan330033 " <berkowd@u...> > 19. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Devi / Len > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> > 20. Re: To be a sage / Anders > " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> > 21. Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Devi / Len > " devianandi " <polansky@m...> > 22. Re: Digest Number 1545 > " DAVID MILLER " <soloton10@e...> > 23. Re: Re: Again, To Gain is to Lose / Devi > Harsha Hey, David! If you answer a daily digest delete all the other posts you're not answering to. You are sending back to the list 25 duplicated posts. I know you are a spiritual guy, but use your brain too, PLEASE! > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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