Guest guest Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > > <lissbon2002> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Do you want to get rid of fear? > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > O, yes sir! Very much so. > > > > > > It is possible. > > Not easy, but possible. > > > > Len > > I don't know myself if it is possible, but I know it's not easy. :- ) Did you ever try, when fear is there, not only as a thought but also as a sensation in your body, when the fear is eating your body, to watch it carefully, with all attention? I mean, not doing anything else, not trying to watch the tv instead, not trying to call your friend and talk about it, because you cannot bear the feeling, but just to undergo the whole sensation, and not to move, not to give up, not to walk away from it, untill it ends by itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > <lissbon2002> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > > > <lissbon2002> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Do you want to get rid of fear? > > > > > > > > > > Len > > > > > > > > O, yes sir! Very much so. > > > > > > > > > It is possible. > > > Not easy, but possible. > > > > > > Len > > > > I don't know myself if it is possible, but I know it's not easy. :- > ) > > > Did you ever try, when fear is there, not only as a thought but also > as a sensation in your body, when the fear is eating your body, to > watch it carefully, with all attention? I mean, not doing anything > else, not trying to watch the tv instead, not trying to call your > friend and talk about it, because you cannot bear the feeling, but > just to undergo the whole sensation, and not to move, not to give up, > not to walk away from it, untill it ends by itself? Yes, I have done that. The feeling of fear is like a field inside the body and even related to outside it. When fear is reduced I can feel physical pain in the body instead. Isn't that horrible! Observing fear and pain can make suffering 'burn up' in the light of awareness, but it's a very slow process for me. There seems to be no end to the fear in me. However, I do feel that fear can be dissolved in the light of awareness. Fear is really painful, extremely nasty. Physical pain can be very nasty too, but the psychological factor of fear can really be nightmarish. A powerful way to dissolve fear is to catch fearful thoughts in action and then feel the fear as an entire field in the whole body/mind instead of just fearful thoughts, and stay with this field in the present moment. Fear is always the past projected into the future. Sense perception, including the actual feeling of gravity affecting the body makes one connected to the now. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > Yes, I have done that. The feeling of fear is like a field inside the > body and even related to outside it. When fear is reduced I can feel > physical pain in the body instead. Isn't that horrible! Observing fear > and pain can make suffering 'burn up' in the light of awareness, but > it's a very slow process for me. There seems to be no end to the fear > in me. However, I do feel that fear can be dissolved in the light of > awareness. > Fear is really painful, extremely nasty. Physical pain can > be very nasty too, but the psychological factor of fear can really be > nightmarish. Yes, it is nightmarish, and yes, it can be dissolved. It's also true for me, that some fears are so tremendous that it just seems impossible not to run away from it. That's why it's so interesting to experiment with very " small " fears. Tiny, little fears :-) Not every fear has the same intensity. I've noticed that having dealt with some small stuff and seeing what happens when it ends (and what happens when it ends is something of incredible beauty and freedom), so, seeing this in small quantities seems to increase the capacity to deal with bigger stuff. When I face the fear, and not only survive it but see the whole illusion of it, it gives some kind of trust that I will survive anything. It is not really something of memory, it's not that I remember that I will be OK, but rather as if the negetive belief about fear has been weakened. I'm practically positive that it's a gradual process. Seeing the mechanism of it once, makes every next time easier. It's still very scary, but the capacity to contain fear grows. Take care, Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Yes, I have done that. The feeling of fear is like a field inside > the > > body and even related to outside it. When fear is reduced I can feel > > physical pain in the body instead. Isn't that horrible! Observing > fear > > and pain can make suffering 'burn up' in the light of awareness, but > > it's a very slow process for me. There seems to be no end to the > fear > > in me. However, I do feel that fear can be dissolved in the light of > > awareness. > > Fear is really painful, extremely nasty. Physical pain can > > be very nasty too, but the psychological factor of fear can really > be > > nightmarish. > > > > Yes, it is nightmarish, and yes, it can be dissolved. > It's also true for me, that some fears are so tremendous that it just > seems impossible not to run away from it. That's why it's so > interesting to experiment with very " small " fears. Tiny, little > fears :-) Not every fear has the same intensity. I've noticed that > having dealt with some small stuff and seeing what happens when it > ends (and what happens when it ends is something of incredible beauty > and freedom), so, seeing this in small quantities seems to increase > the capacity to deal with bigger stuff. > When I face the fear, and not only survive it but see the whole > illusion of it, it gives some kind of trust that I will survive > anything. It is not really something of memory, it's not that I > remember that I will be OK, but rather as if the negetive belief > about fear has been weakened. I'm practically positive that it's a > gradual process. Seeing the mechanism of it once, makes every next > time easier. > It's still very scary, but the capacity to contain fear grows. > > Take care, > Len The entity is nothing but solidified fear. Without fear...it is nothing. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, I have done that. The feeling of fear is like a field inside > > the > > > body and even related to outside it. When fear is reduced I can feel > > > physical pain in the body instead. Isn't that horrible! Observing > > fear > > > and pain can make suffering 'burn up' in the light of awareness, but > > > it's a very slow process for me. There seems to be no end to the > > fear > > > in me. However, I do feel that fear can be dissolved in the light of > > > awareness. > > > Fear is really painful, extremely nasty. Physical pain can > > > be very nasty too, but the psychological factor of fear can really > > be > > > nightmarish. > > > > > > > > Yes, it is nightmarish, and yes, it can be dissolved. > > It's also true for me, that some fears are so tremendous that it just > > seems impossible not to run away from it. That's why it's so > > interesting to experiment with very " small " fears. Tiny, little > > fears :-) Not every fear has the same intensity. I've noticed that > > having dealt with some small stuff and seeing what happens when it > > ends (and what happens when it ends is something of incredible beauty > > and freedom), so, seeing this in small quantities seems to increase > > the capacity to deal with bigger stuff. > > When I face the fear, and not only survive it but see the whole > > illusion of it, it gives some kind of trust that I will survive > > anything. It is not really something of memory, it's not that I > > remember that I will be OK, but rather as if the negetive belief > > about fear has been weakened. I'm practically positive that it's a > > gradual process. Seeing the mechanism of it once, makes every next > > time easier. > > It's still very scary, but the capacity to contain fear grows. > > > > Take care, > > Len > The entity is nothing but solidified fear. > > Without fear...it is nothing. > > toombaru *************************** Toomb, Isn't that hell? Odysseus, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 18, 2004 Report Share Posted December 18, 2004 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > <lissbon2002> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have done that. The feeling of fear is like a field > inside > > > the > > > > body and even related to outside it. When fear is reduced I > can feel > > > > physical pain in the body instead. Isn't that horrible! > Observing > > > fear > > > > and pain can make suffering 'burn up' in the light of > awareness, but > > > > it's a very slow process for me. There seems to be no end to > the > > > fear > > > > in me. However, I do feel that fear can be dissolved in the > light of > > > > awareness. > > > > Fear is really painful, extremely nasty. Physical pain can > > > > be very nasty too, but the psychological factor of fear can > really > > > be > > > > nightmarish. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is nightmarish, and yes, it can be dissolved. > > > It's also true for me, that some fears are so tremendous that it > just > > > seems impossible not to run away from it. That's why it's so > > > interesting to experiment with very " small " fears. Tiny, little > > > fears :-) Not every fear has the same intensity. I've noticed > that > > > having dealt with some small stuff and seeing what happens when > it > > > ends (and what happens when it ends is something of incredible > beauty > > > and freedom), so, seeing this in small quantities seems to > increase > > > the capacity to deal with bigger stuff. > > > When I face the fear, and not only survive it but see the whole > > > illusion of it, it gives some kind of trust that I will survive > > > anything. It is not really something of memory, it's not that I > > > remember that I will be OK, but rather as if the negetive belief > > > about fear has been weakened. I'm practically positive that it's > a > > > gradual process. Seeing the mechanism of it once, makes every > next > > > time easier. > > > It's still very scary, but the capacity to contain fear grows. > > > > > > Take care, > > > Len > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The entity is nothing but solidified fear. > > > > Without fear...it is nothing. > > > > toombaru > *************************** > > Toomb, Isn't that hell? > > Odysseus, Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Yes, I have done that. The feeling of fear is like a field inside > the > > body and even related to outside it. When fear is reduced I can feel > > physical pain in the body instead. Isn't that horrible! Observing > fear > > and pain can make suffering 'burn up' in the light of awareness, but > > it's a very slow process for me. There seems to be no end to the > fear > > in me. However, I do feel that fear can be dissolved in the light of > > awareness. > > Fear is really painful, extremely nasty. Physical pain can > > be very nasty too, but the psychological factor of fear can really > be > > nightmarish. > > > > Yes, it is nightmarish, and yes, it can be dissolved. > It's also true for me, that some fears are so tremendous that it just > seems impossible not to run away from it. That's why it's so > interesting to experiment with very " small " fears. Tiny, little > fears :-) Not every fear has the same intensity. I've noticed that > having dealt with some small stuff and seeing what happens when it > ends (and what happens when it ends is something of incredible beauty > and freedom), so, seeing this in small quantities seems to increase > the capacity to deal with bigger stuff. > When I face the fear, and not only survive it but see the whole > illusion of it, it gives some kind of trust that I will survive > anything. It is not really something of memory, it's not that I > remember that I will be OK, but rather as if the negetive belief > about fear has been weakened. I'm practically positive that it's a > gradual process. Seeing the mechanism of it once, makes every next > time easier. > It's still very scary, but the capacity to contain fear grows. > > Take care, > Len You can also try to sense fear consciously as an energy field in the body without putting any label on it. First there may be fearful thoughts connected to this feeling, but by sensing the fear as a single field no single fearful thought can stay for long because the field is connected to every kind of fearful thought. By sensing 'all' fearful thoughts as a single field in body/mind, fear _about_ this and that becomes just 'fear'; a negative energy field. Bringing conscious present-moment awareness to this field makes it dissolve bit by bit. For example, feel the energy field of fear and at the _same_ time feel the field of gravity in the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, I have done that. The feeling of fear is like a field inside > > the > > > body and even related to outside it. When fear is reduced I can feel > > > physical pain in the body instead. Isn't that horrible! Observing > > fear > > > and pain can make suffering 'burn up' in the light of awareness, but > > > it's a very slow process for me. There seems to be no end to the > > fear > > > in me. However, I do feel that fear can be dissolved in the light of > > > awareness. > > > Fear is really painful, extremely nasty. Physical pain can > > > be very nasty too, but the psychological factor of fear can really > > be > > > nightmarish. > > > > > > > > Yes, it is nightmarish, and yes, it can be dissolved. > > It's also true for me, that some fears are so tremendous that it just > > seems impossible not to run away from it. That's why it's so > > interesting to experiment with very " small " fears. Tiny, little > > fears :-) Not every fear has the same intensity. I've noticed that > > having dealt with some small stuff and seeing what happens when it > > ends (and what happens when it ends is something of incredible beauty > > and freedom), so, seeing this in small quantities seems to increase > > the capacity to deal with bigger stuff. > > When I face the fear, and not only survive it but see the whole > > illusion of it, it gives some kind of trust that I will survive > > anything. It is not really something of memory, it's not that I > > remember that I will be OK, but rather as if the negetive belief > > about fear has been weakened. I'm practically positive that it's a > > gradual process. Seeing the mechanism of it once, makes every next > > time easier. > > It's still very scary, but the capacity to contain fear grows. > > > > Take care, > > Len > > You can also try to sense fear consciously as an energy field in the > body without putting any label on it. First there may be fearful > thoughts connected to this feeling, but by sensing the fear as a > single field no single fearful thought can stay for long because the > field is connected to every kind of fearful thought. By sensing 'all' > fearful thoughts as a single field in body/mind, fear _about_ this > and that becomes just 'fear'; a negative energy field. Bringing > conscious present-moment awareness to this field makes it dissolve bit > by bit. For example, feel the energy field of fear and at the _same_ > time feel the field of gravity in the body. Any attempt to avoid fear only increases it. Any attempt to alter the self only adds to its illusion of reality. Any purposeful intent only pulls the web of thought tighter. Any struggle to change the entity only pulls it deeper into the quagmire of delusion..... Just being.......here........in this.....effortlessness........is all there is. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have done that. The feeling of fear is like a field inside > > > the > > > > body and even related to outside it. When fear is reduced I can feel > > > > physical pain in the body instead. Isn't that horrible! Observing > > > fear > > > > and pain can make suffering 'burn up' in the light of awareness, but > > > > it's a very slow process for me. There seems to be no end to the > > > fear > > > > in me. However, I do feel that fear can be dissolved in the light of > > > > awareness. > > > > Fear is really painful, extremely nasty. Physical pain can > > > > be very nasty too, but the psychological factor of fear can really > > > be > > > > nightmarish. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is nightmarish, and yes, it can be dissolved. > > > It's also true for me, that some fears are so tremendous that it just > > > seems impossible not to run away from it. That's why it's so > > > interesting to experiment with very " small " fears. Tiny, little > > > fears :-) Not every fear has the same intensity. I've noticed that > > > having dealt with some small stuff and seeing what happens when it > > > ends (and what happens when it ends is something of incredible beauty > > > and freedom), so, seeing this in small quantities seems to increase > > > the capacity to deal with bigger stuff. > > > When I face the fear, and not only survive it but see the whole > > > illusion of it, it gives some kind of trust that I will survive > > > anything. It is not really something of memory, it's not that I > > > remember that I will be OK, but rather as if the negetive belief > > > about fear has been weakened. I'm practically positive that it's a > > > gradual process. Seeing the mechanism of it once, makes every next > > > time easier. > > > It's still very scary, but the capacity to contain fear grows. > > > > > > Take care, > > > Len > > > > You can also try to sense fear consciously as an energy field in the > > body without putting any label on it. First there may be fearful > > thoughts connected to this feeling, but by sensing the fear as a > > single field no single fearful thought can stay for long because the > > field is connected to every kind of fearful thought. By sensing 'all' > > fearful thoughts as a single field in body/mind, fear _about_ this > > and that becomes just 'fear'; a negative energy field. Bringing > > conscious present-moment awareness to this field makes it dissolve bit > > by bit. For example, feel the energy field of fear and at the _same_ > > time feel the field of gravity in the body. > > > > Any attempt to avoid fear only increases it. > > Any attempt to alter the self only adds to its illusion of reality. > > Any purposeful intent only pulls the web of thought tighter. > > Any struggle to change the entity only pulls it deeper into the quagmire of delusion..... > > Just being.......here........in this.....effortlessness........is all there is. > > > > > > toombaru devi: are you sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have done that. The feeling of fear is like a field inside > > > the > > > > body and even related to outside it. When fear is reduced I can feel > > > > physical pain in the body instead. Isn't that horrible! Observing > > > fear > > > > and pain can make suffering 'burn up' in the light of awareness, but > > > > it's a very slow process for me. There seems to be no end to the > > > fear > > > > in me. However, I do feel that fear can be dissolved in the light of > > > > awareness. > > > > Fear is really painful, extremely nasty. Physical pain can > > > > be very nasty too, but the psychological factor of fear can really > > > be > > > > nightmarish. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is nightmarish, and yes, it can be dissolved. > > > It's also true for me, that some fears are so tremendous that it just > > > seems impossible not to run away from it. That's why it's so > > > interesting to experiment with very " small " fears. Tiny, little > > > fears :-) Not every fear has the same intensity. I've noticed that > > > having dealt with some small stuff and seeing what happens when it > > > ends (and what happens when it ends is something of incredible beauty > > > and freedom), so, seeing this in small quantities seems to increase > > > the capacity to deal with bigger stuff. > > > When I face the fear, and not only survive it but see the whole > > > illusion of it, it gives some kind of trust that I will survive > > > anything. It is not really something of memory, it's not that I > > > remember that I will be OK, but rather as if the negetive belief > > > about fear has been weakened. I'm practically positive that it's a > > > gradual process. Seeing the mechanism of it once, makes every next > > > time easier. > > > It's still very scary, but the capacity to contain fear grows. > > > > > > Take care, > > > Len > > > > You can also try to sense fear consciously as an energy field in the > > body without putting any label on it. First there may be fearful > > thoughts connected to this feeling, but by sensing the fear as a > > single field no single fearful thought can stay for long because the > > field is connected to every kind of fearful thought. By sensing 'all' > > fearful thoughts as a single field in body/mind, fear _about_ this > > and that becomes just 'fear'; a negative energy field. Bringing > > conscious present-moment awareness to this field makes it dissolve bit > > by bit. For example, feel the energy field of fear and at the _same_ > > time feel the field of gravity in the body. > > > > Any attempt to avoid fear only increases it. > > Any attempt to alter the self only adds to its illusion of reality. > > Any purposeful intent only pulls the web of thought tighter. > > Any struggle to change the entity only pulls it deeper into the quagmire of delusion..... > > Just being.......here........in this.....effortlessness........is all there is. > > > > > > toombaru I feel I am in a state of struggle, not in an effortless state. I struggle with my own projection of time! That's pretty messy and horrible and perhaps even stupid. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have done that. The feeling of fear is like a field inside > > > > the > > > > > body and even related to outside it. When fear is reduced I > can feel > > > > > physical pain in the body instead. Isn't that horrible! Observing > > > > fear > > > > > and pain can make suffering 'burn up' in the light of > awareness, but > > > > > it's a very slow process for me. There seems to be no end to the > > > > fear > > > > > in me. However, I do feel that fear can be dissolved in the > light of > > > > > awareness. > > > > > Fear is really painful, extremely nasty. Physical pain can > > > > > be very nasty too, but the psychological factor of fear can > really > > > > be > > > > > nightmarish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is nightmarish, and yes, it can be dissolved. > > > > It's also true for me, that some fears are so tremendous that it > just > > > > seems impossible not to run away from it. That's why it's so > > > > interesting to experiment with very " small " fears. Tiny, little > > > > fears :-) Not every fear has the same intensity. I've noticed that > > > > having dealt with some small stuff and seeing what happens when it > > > > ends (and what happens when it ends is something of incredible > beauty > > > > and freedom), so, seeing this in small quantities seems to increase > > > > the capacity to deal with bigger stuff. > > > > When I face the fear, and not only survive it but see the whole > > > > illusion of it, it gives some kind of trust that I will survive > > > > anything. It is not really something of memory, it's not that I > > > > remember that I will be OK, but rather as if the negetive belief > > > > about fear has been weakened. I'm practically positive that it's a > > > > gradual process. Seeing the mechanism of it once, makes every next > > > > time easier. > > > > It's still very scary, but the capacity to contain fear grows. > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > Len > > > > > > You can also try to sense fear consciously as an energy field in the > > > body without putting any label on it. First there may be fearful > > > thoughts connected to this feeling, but by sensing the fear as a > > > single field no single fearful thought can stay for long because the > > > field is connected to every kind of fearful thought. By sensing 'all' > > > fearful thoughts as a single field in body/mind, fear _about_ this > > > and that becomes just 'fear'; a negative energy field. Bringing > > > conscious present-moment awareness to this field makes it dissolve bit > > > by bit. For example, feel the energy field of fear and at the _same_ > > > time feel the field of gravity in the body. > > > > > > > > Any attempt to avoid fear only increases it. > > > > Any attempt to alter the self only adds to its illusion of reality. > > > > Any purposeful intent only pulls the web of thought tighter. > > > > Any struggle to change the entity only pulls it deeper into the > quagmire of delusion..... > > > > Just being.......here........in this.....effortlessness........is > all there is. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > I feel I am in a state of struggle, not in an effortless state. I > struggle with my own projection of time! That's pretty messy and > horrible and perhaps even stupid. :-) Struggling happens....until it doesn't. Effortlessness is not a state.....it is a moment-to-moment stream where thought flows easily...but is not followed. The " me " flows along with with everything else...taking its natural course.....no longer resisting its apparent separation...but delighting in it.... no longer fearing time...but swimming in it. ....no longer resisting love...but being it. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, I have done that. The feeling of fear is like a field inside > > the > > > body and even related to outside it. When fear is reduced I can feel > > > physical pain in the body instead. Isn't that horrible! Observing > > fear > > > and pain can make suffering 'burn up' in the light of awareness, but > > > it's a very slow process for me. There seems to be no end to the > > fear > > > in me. However, I do feel that fear can be dissolved in the light of > > > awareness. > > > Fear is really painful, extremely nasty. Physical pain can > > > be very nasty too, but the psychological factor of fear can really > > be > > > nightmarish. > > > > > > > > Yes, it is nightmarish, and yes, it can be dissolved. > > It's also true for me, that some fears are so tremendous that it just > > seems impossible not to run away from it. That's why it's so > > interesting to experiment with very " small " fears. Tiny, little > > fears :-) Not every fear has the same intensity. I've noticed that > > having dealt with some small stuff and seeing what happens when it > > ends (and what happens when it ends is something of incredible beauty > > and freedom), so, seeing this in small quantities seems to increase > > the capacity to deal with bigger stuff. > > When I face the fear, and not only survive it but see the whole > > illusion of it, it gives some kind of trust that I will survive > > anything. It is not really something of memory, it's not that I > > remember that I will be OK, but rather as if the negetive belief > > about fear has been weakened. I'm practically positive that it's a > > gradual process. Seeing the mechanism of it once, makes every next > > time easier. > > It's still very scary, but the capacity to contain fear grows. > > > > Take care, > > Len > > You can also try to sense fear consciously as an energy field in the > body without putting any label on it. First there may be fearful > thoughts connected to this feeling, but by sensing the fear as a > single field no single fearful thought can stay for long because the > field is connected to every kind of fearful thought. By sensing 'all' > fearful thoughts as a single field in body/mind, fear _about_ this > and that becomes just 'fear'; a negative energy field. Bringing > conscious present-moment awareness to this field makes it dissolve bit > by bit. For example, feel the energy field of fear and at the _same_ > time feel the field of gravity in the body. To me it sounds like doing a job of a director: what am I going to feel and how. This seems just another effort of thought. You don't choose what you feel, you just observe. If you tend to control things, you can see how you try to control them. If you're attentive, you might notice that at some moments, for instance, there is no gravity in the body whatsoever, which again is pretty scary. It seems to me that your attempt to feel the gravity in the body is your way not to get lost in the feeling, your way to control the feeling. Observation means, that you don't know what you're going to see, if you already know what you're going to see, you don't see facts but you see what you wish to see. Fear destroys you completely, there is nothing to hold on to and nobody to direct it. That's why it's so scary and people rarely get through it. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " devianandi " <polansky@m...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > <lissbon2002> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have done that. The feeling of fear is like a field > inside > > > > the > > > > > body and even related to outside it. When fear is reduced I > can feel > > > > > physical pain in the body instead. Isn't that horrible! > Observing > > > > fear > > > > > and pain can make suffering 'burn up' in the light of > awareness, but > > > > > it's a very slow process for me. There seems to be no end to > the > > > > fear > > > > > in me. However, I do feel that fear can be dissolved in the > light of > > > > > awareness. > > > > > Fear is really painful, extremely nasty. Physical pain can > > > > > be very nasty too, but the psychological factor of fear can > really > > > > be > > > > > nightmarish. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is nightmarish, and yes, it can be dissolved. > > > > It's also true for me, that some fears are so tremendous that > it just > > > > seems impossible not to run away from it. That's why it's so > > > > interesting to experiment with very " small " fears. Tiny, > little > > > > fears :-) Not every fear has the same intensity. I've noticed > that > > > > having dealt with some small stuff and seeing what happens > when it > > > > ends (and what happens when it ends is something of incredible > beauty > > > > and freedom), so, seeing this in small quantities seems to > increase > > > > the capacity to deal with bigger stuff. > > > > When I face the fear, and not only survive it but see the > whole > > > > illusion of it, it gives some kind of trust that I will > survive > > > > anything. It is not really something of memory, it's not that > I > > > > remember that I will be OK, but rather as if the negetive > belief > > > > about fear has been weakened. I'm practically positive that > it's a > > > > gradual process. Seeing the mechanism of it once, makes every > next > > > > time easier. > > > > It's still very scary, but the capacity to contain fear grows. > > > > > > > > Take care, > > > > Len > > > > > > You can also try to sense fear consciously as an energy field in > the > > > body without putting any label on it. First there may be fearful > > > thoughts connected to this feeling, but by sensing the fear as a > > > single field no single fearful thought can stay for long because > the > > > field is connected to every kind of fearful thought. By > sensing 'all' > > > fearful thoughts as a single field in body/mind, fear _about_ > this > > > and that becomes just 'fear'; a negative energy field. Bringing > > > conscious present-moment awareness to this field makes it > dissolve bit > > > by bit. For example, feel the energy field of fear and at the > _same_ > > > time feel the field of gravity in the body. > > > > > > > > Any attempt to avoid fear only increases it. > > > > Any attempt to alter the self only adds to its illusion of reality. > > > > Any purposeful intent only pulls the web of thought tighter. > > > > Any struggle to change the entity only pulls it deeper into the > quagmire of delusion..... > > > > Just being.......here........in this.....effortlessness........is > all there is. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > devi: are you sure? I'm sure he's sure. He has read it in a book or heard it from a guru, hasn't he. ;-) Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > .... > > Struggling happens....until it doesn't. > > Effortlessness is not a state.....it is a moment-to-moment stream where thought flows easily...but is not followed. > > The " me " flows along with with everything else...taking its natural course.....no longer resisting its apparent separation...but delighting in it.... > > no longer fearing time...but swimming in it. > > ...no longer resisting love...but being it. > > > > > > toombaru Are you flowing with time, so to speak, and if so, did you do anything, any practice, to find, come to that flow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > .... > > > To me it sounds like doing a job of a director: what am I going to > feel and how. This seems just another effort of thought. > You don't choose what you feel, you just observe. If you tend to > control things, you can see how you try to control them. > If you're attentive, you might notice that at some moments, for > instance, there is no gravity in the body whatsoever, which again is > pretty scary. It seems to me that your attempt to feel the gravity in > the body is your way not to get lost in the feeling, your way to > control the feeling. Observation means, that you don't know what > you're going to see, if you already know what you're going to see, > you don't see facts but you see what you wish to see. > Fear destroys you completely, there is nothing to hold on to and > nobody to direct it. That's why it's so scary and people rarely get > through it. > > Len I see what you mean. I am not really observing but instead trying to make myself observe by various techniques. And, of course, observation means that you don't know what you're gonna see. I have missed that fact completely. Thanks for pointing it out. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > I see what you mean. I am not really observing but instead trying to > make myself observe by various techniques. And, of course, observation > means that you don't know what you're gonna see. I have missed that > fact completely. Thanks for pointing it out. > > /AL Yes, and the difficult point is, that, if you really go into it, you do get destroyed. There is no way to know at that moment that this destruction won't really destroy you. The only thing which is being destroyed though, is the structure of the personality, but at that moment there is no way to know that, because the whole fear is caused by a strong identification with the very aspect of the self-image which is being threatened. Think of a little kid who desperately wants a candy. It feels as: if he doesn't get a candy, he will die. His despair is total, absolute. He must go through this despair totally, in order to discover that there is still life without a candy. At the same time he discovers the freedom of a life without a candy. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > I see what you mean. I am not really observing but instead trying to > > make myself observe by various techniques. And, of course, > observation > > means that you don't know what you're gonna see. I have missed that > > fact completely. Thanks for pointing it out. > > > > /AL > > > Yes, and the difficult point is, that, if you really go into it, you > do get destroyed. There is no way to know at that moment that this > destruction won't really destroy you. The only thing which is being > destroyed though, is the structure of the personality, but at that > moment there is no way to know that, because the whole fear is caused > by a strong identification with the very aspect of the self-image > which is being threatened. > Think of a little kid who desperately wants a candy. It feels as: if > he doesn't get a candy, he will die. His despair is total, absolute. > He must go through this despair totally, in order to discover that > there is still life without a candy. At the same time he discovers > the freedom of a life without a candy. > > Len I just noticed myself observing myself 'not to make plans to observe, but just to observe', and then observing myself thinking: 'not to make plans is still a plan...' Maybe the thinking process itself is a form of candy making itself wanting more candy. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 --> > > The " me " flows along with with everything else...taking its natural > course.....no longer resisting its apparent separation...but > delighting in it.... > > > > no longer fearing time...but swimming in it. > > > > ...no longer resisting love...but being it. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Are you flowing with time, so to speak, and if so, did you do > anything, any practice, to find, come to that flow? Every thing flows in time. You are nothing but the tip of a thought ripple in the river of consciousness that flows into itself. The self can never see itself.... There is no practice to become what you already are. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > --> > > > The " me " flows along with with everything else...taking its natural > > course.....no longer resisting its apparent separation...but > > delighting in it.... > > > > > > no longer fearing time...but swimming in it. > > > > > > ...no longer resisting love...but being it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Are you flowing with time, so to speak, and if so, did you do > > anything, any practice, to find, come to that flow? > > > > > > Every thing flows in time. > > You are nothing but the tip of a thought ripple in the river of consciousness that flows into itself. > > > The self can never see itself.... > > > There is no practice to become what you already are. > > > > > toombaru Maybe consciousness exists in several levels, and that it 'wakes up' into higher and higher levels. A level above the previous level can directly know the levels below it, but a lower level cannot from its own viewpoint directly know higher levels. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > --> > > > > The " me " flows along with with everything else...taking its natural > > > course.....no longer resisting its apparent separation...but > > > delighting in it.... > > > > > > > > no longer fearing time...but swimming in it. > > > > > > > > ...no longer resisting love...but being it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Are you flowing with time, so to speak, and if so, did you do > > > anything, any practice, to find, come to that flow? > > > > > > > > > > > > Every thing flows in time. > > > > You are nothing but the tip of a thought ripple in the river of > consciousness that flows into itself. > > > > > > The self can never see itself.... > > > > > > There is no practice to become what you already are. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > Maybe consciousness exists in several levels, and that it 'wakes up' > into higher and higher levels. A level above the previous level can > directly know the levels below it, but a lower level cannot from its > own viewpoint directly know higher levels. > > /AL Thought flows out of consciousness.....a thought stream...surging forward....creating the world in its wake. The nature of thought is to divide. It can only exist within a hierarchial pseudo -world of opposing opposites. It imagines levels where no levels exist. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > I see what you mean. I am not really observing but instead trying to > > > make myself observe by various techniques. And, of course, > > observation > > > means that you don't know what you're gonna see. I have missed that > > > fact completely. Thanks for pointing it out. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > Yes, and the difficult point is, that, if you really go into it, you > > do get destroyed. There is no way to know at that moment that this > > destruction won't really destroy you. The only thing which is being > > destroyed though, is the structure of the personality, but at that > > moment there is no way to know that, because the whole fear is caused > > by a strong identification with the very aspect of the self-image > > which is being threatened. > > Think of a little kid who desperately wants a candy. It feels as: if > > he doesn't get a candy, he will die. His despair is total, absolute. > > He must go through this despair totally, in order to discover that > > there is still life without a candy. At the same time he discovers > > the freedom of a life without a candy. > > > > Len > > I just noticed myself observing myself 'not to make plans to observe, > but just to observe', and then observing myself thinking: 'not to make > plans is still a plan...' Maybe the thinking process itself is a form > of candy making itself wanting more candy. > > /AL Yeah, thought creates layers on layers on layers... Finally we get lost, we lose all contact with facts. That's why direct body awareness, in spite of all comment, all thougts, is such a great help: it is what it is. Pain is pain, it doesn't pretend anything. We tend to lose the body awareness when we go into the content of thoughts. What works for me, is to let the thoughts play, not going into the content, and watch the body. Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > --> > > > The " me " flows along with with everything else...taking its natural > > course.....no longer resisting its apparent separation...but > > delighting in it.... > > > > > > no longer fearing time...but swimming in it. > > > > > > ...no longer resisting love...but being it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Are you flowing with time, so to speak, and if so, did you do > > anything, any practice, to find, come to that flow? > > > > > > Every thing flows in time. > > You are nothing but the tip of a thought ripple in the river of consciousness that flows into itself. > > > The self can never see itself.... > > > There is no practice to become what you already are. > > > > > toombaru Nice theory. It might help you to escape your own shit for a long while, but finally it will find you, anyway. It will grab your balls, and this is how all beautiful bulshit theories end. Finally everybody will have to feel again. Spooky, isn't it? ;-) Len Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > ... > > > > Struggling happens....until it doesn't. > > > > Effortlessness is not a state.....it is a moment-to-moment stream > where thought flows easily...but is not followed. > > > > The " me " flows along with with everything else...taking its natural > course.....no longer resisting its apparent separation...but > delighting in it.... > > > > no longer fearing time...but swimming in it. > > > > ...no longer resisting love...but being it. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Are you flowing with time, so to speak, and if so, did you do > anything, any practice, to find, come to that flow? ** Maybe he (earnestly) asked a question like yours, saw the blatant, multitudinous " ignore-ance " it contained, and just... woke-up. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > wrote: > > > > > ... > > > > > > Struggling happens....until it doesn't. > > > > > > Effortlessness is not a state.....it is a moment-to-moment stream > > where thought flows easily...but is not followed. > > > > > > The " me " flows along with with everything else...taking its > natural > > course.....no longer resisting its apparent separation...but > > delighting in it.... > > > > > > no longer fearing time...but swimming in it. > > > > > > ...no longer resisting love...but being it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Are you flowing with time, so to speak, and if so, did you do > > anything, any practice, to find, come to that flow? > > ** Maybe he (earnestly) asked a question like yours, saw the > blatant, multitudinous " ignore-ance " it contained, and just... > woke-up. > > Ken For someone to wake up.......someone would have to be asleep......and that someone would have to be someone. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > I see what you mean. I am not really observing but instead trying to > > > make myself observe by various techniques. And, of course, > > observation > > > means that you don't know what you're gonna see. I have missed that > > > fact completely. Thanks for pointing it out. > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > Yes, and the difficult point is, that, if you really go into it, you > > do get destroyed. There is no way to know at that moment that this > > destruction won't really destroy you. The only thing which is being > > destroyed though, is the structure of the personality, but at that > > moment there is no way to know that, because the whole fear is caused > > by a strong identification with the very aspect of the self- image > > which is being threatened. > > Think of a little kid who desperately wants a candy. It feels as: if > > he doesn't get a candy, he will die. His despair is total, absolute. > > He must go through this despair totally, in order to discover that > > there is still life without a candy. At the same time he discovers > > the freedom of a life without a candy. > > > > Len > > I just noticed myself observing myself 'not to make plans to observe, > but just to observe', and then observing myself thinking: 'not to make > plans is still a plan...' Maybe the thinking process itself is a form > of candy making itself wanting more candy. > > /AL ** Yes...seemingly endless, repetitive looping--especially when the " non-dual " ideas get lodged and run the machine. An energy almost defying entropy! Say, a bright chap like you might find a way to power cars and heat homes with it! Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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