Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > Struggling happens....until it doesn't. > > > > > > > > Effortlessness is not a state.....it is a moment-to-moment stream > > > where thought flows easily...but is not followed. > > > > > > > > The " me " flows along with with everything else...taking its > > natural > > > course.....no longer resisting its apparent separation...but > > > delighting in it.... > > > > > > > > no longer fearing time...but swimming in it. > > > > > > > > ...no longer resisting love...but being it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Are you flowing with time, so to speak, and if so, did you do > > > anything, any practice, to find, come to that flow? > > > > ** Maybe he (earnestly) asked a question like yours, saw the > > blatant, multitudinous " ignore-ance " it contained, and just... > > woke-up. > > > > Ken > > > > > For someone to wake up.......someone would have to be asleep......and that someone would have to be someone. > > > toombaru ** Yeah...about that " someone. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " <lissbon2002> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > <lissbon2002> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > I see what you mean. I am not really observing but instead > trying to > > > > make myself observe by various techniques. And, of course, > > > observation > > > > means that you don't know what you're gonna see. I have missed > that > > > > fact completely. Thanks for pointing it out. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > Yes, and the difficult point is, that, if you really go into it, > you > > > do get destroyed. There is no way to know at that moment that > this > > > destruction won't really destroy you. The only thing which is > being > > > destroyed though, is the structure of the personality, but at > that > > > moment there is no way to know that, because the whole fear is > caused > > > by a strong identification with the very aspect of the self-image > > > which is being threatened. > > > Think of a little kid who desperately wants a candy. It feels as: > if > > > he doesn't get a candy, he will die. His despair is total, > absolute. > > > He must go through this despair totally, in order to discover > that > > > there is still life without a candy. At the same time he > discovers > > > the freedom of a life without a candy. > > > > > > Len > > > > I just noticed myself observing myself 'not to make plans to > observe, > > but just to observe', and then observing myself thinking: 'not to > make > > plans is still a plan...' Maybe the thinking process itself is a > form > > of candy making itself wanting more candy. > > > > /AL > > > Yeah, thought creates layers on layers on layers... > Finally we get lost, we lose all contact with facts. > That's why direct body awareness, in spite of all comment, all > thougts, is such a great help: it is what it is. Pain is pain, it > doesn't pretend anything. > We tend to lose the body awareness when we go into the content of > thoughts. What works for me, is to let the thoughts play, not going > into the content, and watch the body. > > Len The thinking mind is creating ideas about actions, but cannot itself perform any action. Much energy is wasted by the thinking mind creating future scenarios. At the same time, the thinking mind is very concerned about 'not wasting time'. It is not possible to waste time other than as an idea, and that idea is a waste of energy. To believe it's possible to waste time is to waste energy by creating a personal conflict between what is and ideas about what is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> > wrote: > > > > > ... > > > > > > Struggling happens....until it doesn't. > > > > > > Effortlessness is not a state.....it is a moment-to-moment stream > > where thought flows easily...but is not followed. > > > > > > The " me " flows along with with everything else...taking its > natural > > course.....no longer resisting its apparent separation...but > > delighting in it.... > > > > > > no longer fearing time...but swimming in it. > > > > > > ...no longer resisting love...but being it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Are you flowing with time, so to speak, and if so, did you do > > anything, any practice, to find, come to that flow? > > ** Maybe he (earnestly) asked a question like yours, saw the > blatant, multitudinous " ignore-ance " it contained, and just... > woke-up. > > Ken Maybe Time itself took him under it's wings and so the Flow was there. If I would be supported by Time, then I should ask it: 'Hey, Time, give me the cashhhh!!!' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > <lissbon2002> > > wrote: > > > > > ... > > > > > > > > > To me it sounds like doing a job of a director: what am I going > to > > > feel and how. This seems just another effort of thought. > > > You don't choose what you feel, you just observe. If you tend to > > > control things, you can see how you try to control them. > > > If you're attentive, you might notice that at some moments, for > > > instance, there is no gravity in the body whatsoever, which > again is > > > pretty scary. It seems to me that your attempt to feel the > gravity in > > > the body is your way not to get lost in the feeling, your way to > > > control the feeling. Observation means, that you don't know what > > > you're going to see, if you already know what you're going to > see, > > > you don't see facts but you see what you wish to see. > > > Fear destroys you completely, there is nothing to hold on to and > > > nobody to direct it. That's why it's so scary and people rarely > get > > > through it. > > > > > > Len > > > > I see what you mean. I am not really observing but instead trying > to > > make myself observe by various techniques. And, of course, > observation > > means that you don't know what you're gonna see. I have missed that > > fact completely. Thanks for pointing it out. > > > > /AL > > ** Right. Self-honesty, self-examination, self-confrontation. > > Full speed ahead, and damn the " consequences. " > > Not: " how can I get to that 'state' so-and-so seems to be in? " -- > but just to get to the bottom of this dissatisfaction and > suffering which is the me-activity. > > Ken The me-activity is only a problem when there is fear. I am seeking a fearless me-state. This seeking itself is of course also a kind of fear, so this 'me' is trapped in a treadmill. But wait a minute! Is the 'me' trapped? Maybe it is. In that case, what is there to fear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " lissbon2002 " > <lissbon2002> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > I see what you mean. I am not really observing but instead > trying to > > > > make myself observe by various techniques. And, of course, > > > observation > > > > means that you don't know what you're gonna see. I have missed > that > > > > fact completely. Thanks for pointing it out. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > Yes, and the difficult point is, that, if you really go into it, > you > > > do get destroyed. There is no way to know at that moment that > this > > > destruction won't really destroy you. The only thing which is > being > > > destroyed though, is the structure of the personality, but at > that > > > moment there is no way to know that, because the whole fear is > caused > > > by a strong identification with the very aspect of the self- > image > > > which is being threatened. > > > Think of a little kid who desperately wants a candy. It feels > as: if > > > he doesn't get a candy, he will die. His despair is total, > absolute. > > > He must go through this despair totally, in order to discover > that > > > there is still life without a candy. At the same time he > discovers > > > the freedom of a life without a candy. > > > > > > Len > > > > I just noticed myself observing myself 'not to make plans to > observe, > > but just to observe', and then observing myself thinking: 'not to > make > > plans is still a plan...' Maybe the thinking process itself is a > form > > of candy making itself wanting more candy. > > > > /AL > > ** Yes...seemingly endless, repetitive looping--especially > when the " non-dual " ideas get lodged and run the machine. > > An energy almost defying entropy! > > Say, a bright chap like you might find a way to power cars > and heat homes with it! > > Ken I have only my warm heart to offer....shit..wait a minute......my...COLD heart to offer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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