Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Hi again, I have more questions to ask you. I you don't mind. 1- How can someone become liberated? 2- When can someone know that he or she has attain real liberation or enlightement? 3- What is the difference between Self-Realisation and God realisation? 4- Is there a mind without thoughts or it is the word mind that has been use to point the thinking process? When a swami says beyond the mind, does he mean beyond the thinking process? Stop thinking! 5- If we can stop thinking, how can we achieve this state? 6- Is enlightement a state or it is not. The master are always looking for the higher states. Master Nisargaddata says that the I am is a state. Is enlightement or Liberation a state? 7- how does a swami live after he or she attain Liberation. Does he or she remain always in the Liberation state or can that person enjoy and live and think like all the others? 8- Does liberated persons are totally above Karma? 9- What is your personal or general definition of Karma? 10- Do you believe in reincarnation? 11- Do you believe that we are just the body and when we die consciousness is no more. Just pure nothingness. or do you believe like Krishna that when we die. Just the body dies. And our soul go to whatever place like heaven or hell or whatever place, but without consciousness evaporate into nothingness? 12- What is God for you? Does he exist in your world? All the great masters speak of God. Ramakrishna, vivekananda, Jesus, etc etc. As if God truly exists. Do you believe in God or god is just an Idea? 13- If God is just an Idea, Why all the Masters and Avatars always speak of God as if he truly exist. Are they saying that only for the people to believe in something instead of crying their misfortune or God truly exist? 14-Some say that there is nothing to do to attain Liberation because there is no one to be liberated etc. That there is nothing to do. All is done. And when we die. Our consciousness dissolves in pure awarness and that this is free and that heaven and hell is not true? Krishna says the opposite! What do you say about that. I my uncle dies tomorrow. Is he going to go to pure awarness and dissolve there? Only few words for each question I think would be enough. I don't want to make you work to hard. :0) that is not my intention! :0) Thanks a lot, Namaste Odysseus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Hi Odysseus Hi again, I have more questions to ask you. I you don't mind. Odysseus 1- How can someone become liberated? Nirgunananda Understand what have imprison him: the mind. Odysseus 2- When can someone know that he or she has attain real liberation or enlightement? Nirgunanada Nobody can. You can ask for answers for yours doubts, yours desires and fears. Odysseus 3- What is the difference between Self-Realisation and God realisation? Nirgunananda Self - realization is total liberation that you can stand beyond mind, beyond Gods, because Gods are in the mind. God - realization is you understand with intellectuality only, and to live in the mind with the Gods. Odysseus 4- Is there a mind without thoughts or it is the word mind that has been use to point the thinking process? When a swami says beyond the mind, does he mean beyond the thinking process? Stop thinking! Nirgunananda There is a mind without thoughts, that is a Super mind, it is always equal the Self. Beyond the mind is beyond the thinking process. Stop thinking yes, only seeing the thoughts, iqual as in the craw when you see several persons going and coming without identification. Odysseus 5- If we can stop thinking, how can we achieve this state? First you have to practice the " self - observation " like this " and there are several ways " : for every thoughts that you identify within you mind you have to have consciousness of it, and say for yourself: I AM. This " I AM " only with the sense of to exist yourself without the thought. With this practice you will awake your consciousness, or rather you will take off your consciousness from the objects and put in yourself, clear as you really is clear. Other practice is when you identify a thought within your mind you MUST BE alert and say for yourself: IT IS NOT ME. Odysseus 6- Is enlightement a state or it is not. The master are always looking for the higher states. Master Nisargaddata says that the I am is a state. Is enlightement or Liberation a state? Nirgunananda The " I am that speaks Nisargadatta " is a state because only exist a sense of I AM, if exist a thing or a thought seen within your mind or in the world that your consciousness can identify. Liberation is not a state because is beyond the mind. Odysseus 7- how does a swami live after he or she attain Liberation. Does he or she remain always in the Liberation state or can that person enjoy and live and think like all the others? Nirgunananda He or She remain always in the Liberation, but with the senses absolutely free, clear; is because of it that He or She can truly enjoy, but can not think nor live like all the other, because the thoughts that pass are the thoughts that pass. Odysseus 8- Does liberated persons are totally above Karma? Yes. Karma is only to mind/body. Odysseus 9- What is your personal or general definition of Karma? Karma is cause and effect that occur for the functioning of the mind, only, as a liberated is beyond the mind, the karma has no importance. Odysseus 10- Do you believe in reincarnation? No. There are no reincarnation as they say. Are only conditioned consciousness that remain up to all conditioned consciousness be free, be clear again, no conditioned. Odysseus 11- Do you believe that we are just the body and when we die consciousness is no more. Just pure nothingness. or do you believe like Krishna that when we die. Just the body dies. And our soul go to whatever place like heaven or hell or whatever place, but without consciousness evaporate into nothingness? Nirgunananda We are no mind/body, we are awareness, from awareness born the objective consciousness, from the objective consciousness born the mind, from the mind born the body " every forms " . Our soul that Krishna said is when you are liberated, then you are the soul because you know that you really are, and know that are. Awareness is like a sense that you feel " only existing " without no complement, no adjective, no substantive, on so on, on so forth. Odysseus 12- What is God for you? Does he exist in your world? All the great masters speak of God. Ramakrishna, vivekananda, Jesus, etc etc. As if God truly exists. Do you believe in God or god is just an Idea? Nirgunananda The God of mind is to construct, maintain and destroy by yours desires and fears, all that you want by yours desires and fears they do for you, within your mind. The self is beyond mind/Gods. All worlds and Gods was born from the Self as a shadow. Odysseus 13- If God is just an Idea, Why all the Masters and Avatars always speak of God as if he truly exist. Are they saying that only for the people to believe in something instead of crying their misfortune or God truly exist? Nirgunananda The energy that make all and destroy all, exist when is acting in mind. Odysseus 14-Some say that there is nothing to do to attain Liberation because there is no one to be liberated etc. That there is nothing to do. All is done. And when we die. Our consciousness dissolves in pure awareness and that this is free and that heaven and hell is not true? Krishna says the opposite! What do you say about that. I my uncle dies tomorrow. Is he going to go to pure awareness and dissolve there? Nirgunananda What Krishna said and other is to put fear and stop and to control the persons about the evil. All Gods are people that was self - illuminated and all people the are self - liberated is beyond mind/Gods. Only few words for each question I think would be enough. I don't want to make you work to hard. :0) that is not my intention! :0) Thanks a lot, Namaste Odysseus Namastê Nirgunananda - ilikezen2004 Nisargadatta Wednesday, December 29, 2004 11:47 PM to Swami Nirgunananda Hi again, I have more questions to ask you. I you don't mind. 1- How can someone become liberated? 2- When can someone know that he or she has attain real liberation or enlightement? 3- What is the difference between Self-Realisation and God realisation? 4- Is there a mind without thoughts or it is the word mind that has been use to point the thinking process? When a swami says beyond the mind, does he mean beyond the thinking process? Stop thinking! 5- If we can stop thinking, how can we achieve this state? 6- Is enlightement a state or it is not. The master are always looking for the higher states. Master Nisargaddata says that the I am is a state. Is enlightement or Liberation a state? 7- how does a swami live after he or she attain Liberation. Does he or she remain always in the Liberation state or can that person enjoy and live and think like all the others? 8- Does liberated persons are totally above Karma? 9- What is your personal or general definition of Karma? 10- Do you believe in reincarnation? 11- Do you believe that we are just the body and when we die consciousness is no more. Just pure nothingness. or do you believe like Krishna that when we die. Just the body dies. And our soul go to whatever place like heaven or hell or whatever place, but without consciousness evaporate into nothingness? 12- What is God for you? Does he exist in your world? All the great masters speak of God. Ramakrishna, vivekananda, Jesus, etc etc. As if God truly exists. Do you believe in God or god is just an Idea? 13- If God is just an Idea, Why all the Masters and Avatars always speak of God as if he truly exist. Are they saying that only for the people to believe in something instead of crying their misfortune or God truly exist? 14-Some say that there is nothing to do to attain Liberation because there is no one to be liberated etc. That there is nothing to do. All is done. And when we die. Our consciousness dissolves in pure awarness and that this is free and that heaven and hell is not true? Krishna says the opposite! What do you say about that. I my uncle dies tomorrow. Is he going to go to pure awarness and dissolve there? Only few words for each question I think would be enough. I don't want to make you work to hard. :0) that is not my intention! :0) Thanks a lot, Namaste Odysseus ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. 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Guest guest Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Hi Swami Nirgunananda, I would need to clarify few things please. :0) Odysseus > 2- When can someone know that he or she has attain real liberation > or enlightement? > Nirgunanada: Nobody can. You can ask for answers for yours doubts, yours desires and fears. Odysseus: But you said that you attained Liberation. So, you need to know that you are there before saying that you have? No? So when one knows that one is truly liberated? > > Odysseus > 3- What is the difference between Self-Realisation and God > realisation? > Nirgunananda > Self - realization is total liberation that you can stand beyond mind, beyond Gods, because Gods are in the mind. > God - realization is you understand with intellectuality only, and to live in the mind with the Gods. Odysseus: How can we say that the Self stand prior to God? Are they different? > Odysseus > 4- Is there a mind without thoughts or it is the word mind that has been use to point the thinking process? When a swami says beyond the > mind, does he mean beyond the thinking process? Stop thinking! > Nirgunananda: > There is a mind without thoughts, that is a Super mind, it is always equal the Self. Beyond the mind is beyond the thinking process. Stop thinking yes, only seeing the thoughts, iqual as in the craw when you see several persons going and coming without identification. > Odysseus: You say here that we can see the thoughts, just see them and this is non-thinking it-self. and you talk about a mind that is without thoughts; the super mind! = the Self. In other words one who can stop thinking completly, no thoughts mind has reached the Self? Is that it? If not how does it works? I can try to see my thoughts passing by but to stop them completely, no thoughts at all for lets say 5 minutes... I don't think it is that easy to do. > Odysseus > 8- Does liberated persons are totally above Karma? > Yes. Karma is only to mind/body. > Odysseus: You mean that his mind is above Karma but his body is still in Karma and consequences? That his body still suffers Karma or his body is free from Karma? > Odysseus > 10- Do you believe in reincarnation? > No. There are no reincarnation as they say. Are only conditioned consciousness that remain up to all conditioned consciousness be free, be clear again, no conditioned. Master Osho said he spent several live before he reached Enlightement or Liberation. Anyway beyond the mind. Why is he speaking of reincarnation if it is not true? If it is only from the mind. He seemed sincere. > Odysseus > 12- What is God for you? Does he exist in your world? All the great masters speak of God. Ramakrishna, vivekananda, Jesus, etc etc. As > if God truly exists. Do you believe in God or god is just an Idea? > Nirgunananda > The God of mind is to construct, maintain and destroy by yours desires and fears, all that you want by yours desires and fears they do for you, within your mind. > The self is beyond mind/Gods. All worlds and Gods was born from the Self as a shadow. > Odysseus: What about God's powers (siddhis). Do they exist? Or it is just fake? > Odysseus > 13- If God is just an Idea, Why all the Masters and Avatars always > speak of God as if he truly exist. Are they saying that only for the people to believe in something instead of crying their misfortune or God truly exist? > Nirgunananda > The energy that make all and destroy all, exist when is acting in mind. Odysseus: Who's energy is that? God's or the Self? > > Odysseus > 14-Some say that there is nothing to do to attain Liberation because > there is no one to be liberated etc. That there is nothing to do. > All is done. And when we die. Our consciousness dissolves in pure > awareness and that this is free and that heaven and hell is not true? > Krishna says the opposite! What do you say about that. I my uncle > dies tomorrow. Is he going to go to pure awareness and dissolve there? > Nirgunananda > What Krishna said and other is to put fear and stop and to control the persons about the evil. All Gods are people that was self - illuminated and all people the are self - liberated is beyond mind/Gods. > Odysseus: In my opinion, if I see someone very very scared I won't add more fear to free that person, no? I would more say something like it is just a dream. Or don't worry it will pass. It is an illusion anything, but not add more fear? Your Krishna is not very nice with people is he? There is no need to add more evil to the evil. Ok lets take an ordinary human being that is slave in this world. As most people are, When he dies. Where does he go? Krishna says if he is bad (consciousness)he will follow his mind and enter nasty realms. If he is good he will enter heavens. But Krishna says that even if he enters heavens after long time enjoying heavens he has to reincarnate, come back to earth to realise the Self and be one with Krishna! Reincarnation exist in Krishna worlds! Maybe Krishna was just a God-Realised Master? Who know? Can you help me to understand this? The buddha said that the world is real but not the person within or the ego. Something like that. Could you tell me what is real and what is not? Is the Ego unreal? you say that gods are unreal but only in the mind? I'm mixed-up now? Namaste Odysseus, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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