Guest guest Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 12/31/04 9:12:40 AM, ericparoissien@g... writes: > Excellent questions. Buy hardhat and goggles bricks bounce back at > you > when you wield a jackhammer. Soon your popularity is going to equal mine. > Preaching from a rock pile is a precarious business ) :-) in the best case on the 600-1000 members' lists, we talk to 6 active interlocutors and 20 good listeners who care if it addresses directly something of their present circumstances and concerns... when i write, and probably the same for you or Luis Burguese, and others, first there is the discovery of something like universal poetic inspiration that is (clumsily, with filters) expressed through this (that always surprises me); second, someone may answer, but first i paint because i like the smell of oil colors, the contact with the greasy matter, and resplendend/delightful hues that shock the eye even before any art's happened. the following translation of your poetry (i was not going to post it but...): " God omnipotente, divine teacher Return the sight to this pilgrim Not the external sight that worships the light But the internal one, that worships your cross For my poor eyes alone see horror Among the thorns that give us pain My weak spirit, blind and sickly does not yet see the road that leads to paradise " [Pete] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 In a message dated 1/1/05 12:28:19 AM, ericparoissien writes: > " God omnipotente, divine teacher > Return the sight to this pilgrim > Not the external sight that worships the light > But the internal one, that worships your cross > For my poor eyes alone see horror > Among the thorns that give us pain > My weak spirit, blind and sickly > does not yet see the road that leads to paradise " > > [Pete] > P: Excellent editing! I think it is much better now that you left out the last stanza. Thanks. Attachment to our 'intellectual property' is one of the last hideouts of our feelings of being an entity. There, a stubborn sense of continuity and self-value could still lurk under the guise of preserving the integrity of the message. What needs to be said will be said if not by me by another. I can only volunteer my voice to the work. How my words would be used is not up to me. They could be applauded, ignored, opposed, or ridiculed. In the end, it all works for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2005 Report Share Posted January 1, 2005 In a message dated 1/1/05 1:17:42 PM, lbb10 writes: > >Oh Petey dearest, > P: Dear Cinderella, Fret not. We seek to make you a princess, not to arrest you. If the shoe fits, wear it. If not, don't explain. No one is accusing you of stealing those shoes. And about all that excusing and explaining, and questions of appearances, read your own words: > >The idea that there is no experiencer is complete nonsense. I am here. I > am real as the sun that rises every morning. You can repeat that silly > mantra that there is no one home and that " you " and " I " are illusions > but let me tell you that you are making a fool out of yourself. And all > the illusion stuff that is talked about, here is the truth. You can > >create anything you want. It may be an illusion because it is just words > or ideas, but if you get people to believe it becomes real. Look at > money. A dollar, a renembi, a euro dollar, is worth next to nothing but > it is what people believe it to be worth that counts and the economies > of entire countries depend on such beliefs. So what is an illusion and > what is real depends on how many people believe it. The scientists > proved that there is one human race but it doesn't matter to the rest of > the human population. They see races very clearly and telling them that > >it ain't so does cut it. > > > >The notion that " there is no conceptualization yet it is not empty, " is > mumbo jumbo. Wake up. Is everything is as it is? My God, of course. If > you are reading this, what are you doing? Reading right? What do you > type with, a keyboard right? Everything is as it is. What is so special > >about a statement like that? > P: Yes. > > >What goes on in that silence? Nothing that I can reckon because When I > am silent that is what I am. Zero. Any one can know this with or without > >effort. > > > " The mind/body is where it is and sensations are engaged. " That > statement is an example of the famous passive voice and pronoun dropping > technique. This is how you get rid of " you " and " me. " Afraid of > pronouns, personal agency? It is a good way to wipe out the experiencer, > >me. Nice try. But no thanks. > > >Don't you think that I had better avoid cars in the street, go to work, > eat, raise children and pays bills if I have to, post to this forum, if > I want, creates stuff if I want after I get my mind into that silence. I > have to live, silence or not. Silence does not change anything. I have > to live and deal with the demands made upon me whether they be personal, > >impersonal or other. > P: So there, it's best not to explain, not to defend. Let your dropping rest where they fell, let then be what they are, let people use then or abuse them as they will, let them call you what they will. One morning Bankei heard a knock at his door and found by his doorstep a young lady with a baby. " You are the father of this child, and must take care of him. " Bankei, of course, was innocent, but he bowed to her and said: " Ah so! " The girl offered him the baby and Bankei took the child in, and took care of him for a time, until one day an old lady appeared to reclaim the child. She stated her daughter had unfairly accused Bankai and that the real father had been found. Bankei bowed said, " Ah so! " and handed the baby back. So the right way of viewing this, is that you and I, are actor in this small play reciting lines that must be said. We don't choose our roles, and roles do change. Today's star (if any) could be tomorrow's fool. The important thing is to declaim with gusto the lines that one must say. Let the audience, judge or not, be instructed, bored, ignore, delete. Regardless the show must go on. Even if only to be performed for the benefit of empty seats. Now...take a bow... and let the curtain fall, Pete Nothing new below > > It is bodily weariness, dear one, seeking relief. That is what such > appearances do. > > Does a pigeon own its droppings? It flies away from its droppings in the > street but leaves them in the nest. A pigeon cannot own its droppings. > Who owns droppings? Do you own your droppings? You say no. Yes, no. > > Does one own appearances, doing as one likes with them? Can one change a > cup into a computer as appears. No, one cannot. There is no direct alchemy. > > How about going out to stand in front of a speeding cars on a highway? > Can your appearance do that? Can you do a Neo move on the appearances by > flying away or turning things less dense than your appearance?. You > cannot. Only a " deluded " appearance can do that. The appearances are > all, and for the appearances of the living things movement occurs to > preserve the body of the appearance. No? Yes? ??? > > How can you volunteer your voice to the work Pete? There is no > volunteering, Pete, as you always say. If one cannot volunteer their own > appearance how can one volunteer an old pigeon's appearance? > > How about Pete's appearance, that eddy in the river of appearances. A > punch from another appearance approaches your appearing head. What do > you do Pete? Do you volunteer your appearance to move out of the way? Or > disappear the appearance of the fist. Or voluntarily take it like a > martial artist in order to get your death punch in? No Pete, you do > not. You cannot. The appearance does something, or, if you want to say > it, you do something that is not voluntary. > > So, there is no ownership of droppings. There is no alchemy with > appearances. There is no owning of appearances. The appearances do as > they do without volunteering since there is no one to do so. And this > being as it is, appearances cannot " volunteer " other appearances without > unpleasant consequences to both appearances. > > Attempting to directly manage others appearances distorts, changes, and > creates disharmonies and speeded up disintegrations ( " suffering " ) in and > of the appearances. Such is abuse, assault, killing, raping, slavery, > and so on. Are there any appearances of the human form that react > differently to such attempts to volunteer or force their appearances to > move in a certain way? > > Disharmony and disintegration of the appearances, one by another, by > volunteering or forcing, or manipulation or violence is always met by > movements to restore harmony and momentary integrity of the appearances. > > Human appearances avoid such disharmony and disintegration by > cooperative giving and giving. > > Requesting, asking, feeling out are some of the ways. > > This goes from washing dishes to launching a rocket to the moon. Not > doing so results in the clashing of appearances from the smallest verbal > tiff to the most devastating nuclear war. Movement towards harmony > immediately come forth however small, discussion, understanding, > cooperation or again more disharmony. > > The presence of such " volunteering " or forcing, or manipulation of or > violence to appearances and the movements to restore harmony and > momentary integrity to them is without doubt. > > This is the simple way of appearances. There is no right and wrong no > good and evil, no pure and impure, no truth and falsity. There are > movements, flows to harmony, to disharmony, to.......... Descriptions of > it are... well you know. > > " A stubborn sense of continuity and self-value could still lurk under > the guise of preserving the integrity of the message " emerges because > the waters of life were not imbibed directly. On the way to drinking > deeply, there is the seeing of a reflection in the waters. The > reflection distracts the interest to drinking and that reflection is the > stimulus to reporting, held as it is in attention...So whose or what > reflection is it and who owns it, Pete. You know the answers........... > > So my sweet, you have done as requested and have shown me one of your > your worlds and I drink deeply head down as a pigeon does and your > waters are deep and sweet to the taste. There is oneness. There is no > Pete and no Old Pigeon, a merging of the appearances, the waters of life. > > Old Pigeon > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 1/1/05 12:28:19 AM, ericparoissien@g... writes: > > > > " God omnipotente, divine teacher > > Return the sight to this pilgrim > > Not the external sight that worships the light > > But the internal one, that worships your cross > > For my poor eyes alone see horror > > Among the thorns that give us pain > > My weak spirit, blind and sickly > > does not yet see the road that leads to paradise " > > > > [Pete] > > > > P: Excellent editing! I think it is much better now that > you left out the last stanza. Thanks. > Attachment to our 'intellectual property' is one > of the last hideouts of our feelings of being an entity. > There, a stubborn sense of continuity and self-value > could still lurk under the guise of preserving > the integrity of the message. What needs to be > said will be said if not by me by another. I can > only volunteer my voice to the work. How my > words would be used is not up to me. They > could be applauded, ignored, opposed, or ridiculed. > In the end, it all works for the best. ok :-) it was broken in my source, i have it now: (directly from the original on bagasse) Dios omnipotente, maestro divino Devuelve la vista a este peregrino No la vista externa que adora la luz Mas esa, la interna, que adora tu cruz Que mis pobres ojos solo ven horror Entre los abrojos que nos dan dolor Mi espíritu ciego, débil, enfermizo No ve ya la ruta que va al paraíso Que sentir dolor sin buscar consuelo Es haber ganado, como Tu, el Cielo. God omnipotente, divine teacher Returns the sight to this pilgrim, Not the external sight that worships the light, But the internal one, that worships your cross; For my poor eyes alone see horror; Among the thorns that give us pain; My weak, blind spirit, weak (enfermizo); does not see yet the route that goes to paradise; To feel pain without seeking consolation Is to have earned, like you, Heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 > ok :-) it was broken in my source, i have it now: > (directly from the original on bagasse) I would recommend to raise an inventory of the things in the bagasse. Some things are beginning to stink putrefacted..... ichoreux, sanieux....mon petite bichon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> wrote: > > > ok :-) it was broken in my source, i have it now: > > (directly from the original on bagasse) > > > > I would recommend to raise an inventory of the things in the > bagasse. Some things are beginning to stink putrefacted..... > ichoreux, sanieux....mon petite bichon. wwuuuuAAAAuuuuu wwwuuuuuAAAAuuuuu! one ambulance for Stockholm please, we have one therapist customer with a tourette fit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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