Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 " In speaking, painting or merely posting quotes and poems, the subject does not know that he or she is symbolizing, through language, the object of his or her primordial yearning. " Yet *someone else* knows right? This someone has a key to unlock the symbols for someone else right? Kip's 2 assumptions in this (tell me where i am mistaken) are: one - that one is ignorant about one's *deep motives* and art is not art of art's sake but the expression of a lack (why not the expression of raw sex too, right?) ... that is, in the fascinating process of spreading a 10x10 feet surface with a splendid uniform shining ocre color i have expressed (solved) a deep knot in me. two - one day we won't have to express art anymore because we won't have knots and complexes anymore. We'll be realized and artless. .... to me it is easier to say that expression is the expression of nature's primordial beauty (and there is nothing 'primordially' personal in a person), like birds sing, and waves wave on the ocean, and that there is a simple pleasure to live the moment that needs no explanation ... we are what the moment and the interaction is, in all the beauty of the changing sky, ... what more would there be and to serve whose purpose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Eric Paroissien " <ericparoissien@g...> wrote: > > " In speaking, painting or merely posting quotes and poems, the > subject does not know that he or she is symbolizing, through > language, the object of his or her primordial yearning. " > > Yet *someone else* knows right? > This someone has a key to unlock the symbols for someone else right? .....you are someone else Kip Almazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 > ....you are someone else always, and forever ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> wrote: > > > ....you are someone else > > always, and forever > > ;-) Then my symbole is mine and no one tells me i am not enlightened or i am not that or not in possession of my own meaning ... if you have observed a bit the Dan strategy you have noticed a swing between of flattery to those who need it and dispossession of self-confidence to those who display it ... the regular, gentle way of self- appointed teachers to expound how you don't " mark up to it " ... in Dan's game, Pete had not had the " real experience of death " . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Eric Paroissien wrote: > > " In speaking, painting or merely posting quotes and poems, the > subject does not know that he or she is symbolizing, through > language, the object of his or her primordial yearning. " > > Yet *someone else* knows right? > This someone has a key to unlock the symbols for someone else right? > Kip's 2 assumptions in this (tell me where i am mistaken) are: > one - that one is ignorant about one's *deep motives* and art is not > art of art's sake but the expression of a lack (why not the > expression of raw sex too, right?) ... that is, in the fascinating > process of spreading a 10x10 feet surface with a splendid uniform > shining ocre color i have expressed (solved) a deep knot in me. > two - one day we won't have to express art anymore because we won't > have knots and complexes anymore. We'll be realized and artless. > ... > to me it is easier to say that expression is the expression of > nature's primordial beauty (and there is nothing 'primordially' > personal in a person), like birds sing, and waves wave on the ocean, > and that there is a simple pleasure to live the moment that needs no > explanation ... we are what the moment and the interaction is, in > all the beauty of the changing sky, ... what more would there be and > to serve whose purpose? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ And so it is seen that the two are one in their fierce love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 In a message dated 1/2/05 4:10:00 AM, ericparoissien writes: > >Then my symbole is mine and no one tells me i am not enlightened or > i am not that or not in possession of my own meaning ... if you have > observed a bit the Dan strategy you have noticed a swing between of > flattery to those who need it and dispossession of self-confidence > to those who display it ... the regular, gentle way of self- > appointed teachers to expound how you don't " mark up to it " ... in > >Dan's game, Pete had not had the " real experience of death " . > P: As opposed to false death? Can a son of a barren woman die? Is the end of an illlusion, also illusory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Eric Paroissien wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> > wrote: > > > > > ....you are someone else > > > > always, and forever > > > > ;-) > > Then my symbole is mine and no one tells me i am not enlightened or > i am not that or not in possession of my own meaning ... if you have > observed a bit the Dan strategy you have noticed a swing between of > flattery to those who need it and dispossession of self-confidence > to those who display it ... the regular, gentle way of self- > appointed teachers to expound how you don't " mark up to it " ... in > Dan's game, Pete had not had the " real experience of death " . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Seeing one rather than none makes two, seeing two makes three and more....Entering this labyrinth is easy. Navigating through, the ships just flow with the wind. When the ships run parallel all is well, when they bump in the fog, the alarms are sounded, when they crash head on, one or both sink in the deep cursing the navigating skills of the other. The captains go down with their ship saying their last words, whatever they maybe. The other ships flow by. Some lend a hand to what they see as wreckage, others sail on seeing nothing, others are content they have avoided crashing, still others gather their crews and tell them the woeful tale or make merry that their enemies have reaped what they sowed. A few mount the mast to offer condemnation or advice to the drowning captain(s). A few see that their ship is falling apart and sinking as the others sink....and resign themselves to their fate. The deep remains and the surviving captains still resilient sail on in their way in their flimsy ships, each to their own.... And who is making this silly telling. It is the captain going down with his ship into the murky deep. Captain Timmy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > Eric Paroissien wrote: > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> > > wrote: > > > > > > > ....you are someone else > > > > > > always, and forever > > > > > > ;-) > > > > Then my symbole is mine and no one tells me i am not enlightened or > > i am not that or not in possession of my own meaning ... if you have > > observed a bit the Dan strategy you have noticed a swing between of > > flattery to those who need it and dispossession of self- confidence > > to those who display it ... the regular, gentle way of self- > > appointed teachers to expound how you don't " mark up to it " ... in > > Dan's game, Pete had not had the " real experience of death " . > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Wow Eric, I'm speechless! Are you sure you are not 5 years old? Read yourself above! It is my symbole, mine no one will tell me I am not Enlighten! FUCK MAN!! and you are suppose to be a big cheese! You talk like a woman all the time bla bla bla. Decontruction etc. Deconstruct what? What is enlightenment for you? A theorie? Man... Are most of you nuts or what? In Dan's game Pete has not experienced real death! Man! Awake for Christ sake! Stop talking none sense and meditate. Enlightement is not a fake and Nirvana either and the Self either. You are in your brain and because you cannot get out of it you invent all sort of theorie about yourself etc. Listen to the Masters. Oh mmmmmyyyy Pete is death!! Wow! Who is writing his posting then, You? Physically yourself? You guys like to play with the mind. It is ok. But you are prisoners of the mind. And you call that enlightenment. You laugh but you don't know! I don't laugh at mozart. He know more the music stuff than me! You laugh as if you know. And when someone seems to know, well you laugh at him. You are soo deep in your sh>@ that you think that that smell is normal. That everything is illusion and fake and not true. Etc. One sees a glimpse of the Self and because it is not stable for that moment says nothing is stable, all is fake and untrue. $$#@#@!@ And the worse part is that you try to teach your non sense to tell everyone that you are right! Poor emperors. What is going on is soo sad. You are crazy and think that you have reached the Truth, the Self. There are step to see if one has reached something. 1- if you say you are a musician you must learn at least one instrument. If not you are not a musician. Is that clear enough for your crazy brains. The brain, your god is your brain and you say that you don't worship gods you are above!!! You are very lucky that master Nis or Ramana is not here to kik your asses. You don't know what you are talking about. I understand it is because you don't have a true master like master Nis or buddha or Ramana etc. but guys please just don't pretend you have reached a level when you have not a single idea of what this level is about! This is a Nisargadatta web site and most of you act as if you know more or have achieved more than he did! It is none sense! This does not apply to you Alexandra the great. ;0) This way my two cents, Odysseus, P.S. to answer you Eric, am 2 years old! :0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > Eric Paroissien wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > ....you are someone else > > > > > > > > always, and forever > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > Then my symbole is mine and no one tells me i am not enlightened > or > > > i am not that or not in possession of my own meaning ... if you > have > > > observed a bit the Dan strategy you have noticed a swing between > of > > > flattery to those who need it and dispossession of self- > confidence > > > to those who display it ... the regular, gentle way of self- > > > appointed teachers to expound how you don't " mark up to it " ... > in > > > Dan's game, Pete had not had the " real experience of death " . > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Wow Eric, I'm speechless! Are you sure you are not 5 years old? Read > yourself above! It is my symbole, mine no one will tell me I am not > Enlighten! FUCK MAN!! and you are suppose to be a big cheese! You > talk like a woman all the time bla bla bla. Decontruction etc. > Deconstruct what? What is enlightenment for you? A theorie? Man... > Are most of you nuts or what? In Dan's game Pete has not experienced > real death! Man! Awake for Christ sake! Stop talking none sense and > meditate. Enlightement is not a fake and Nirvana either and the Self > either. You are in your brain and because you cannot get out of it > you invent all sort of theorie about yourself etc. Listen to the > Masters. Oh mmmmmyyyy Pete is death!! Wow! Who is writing his > posting then, You? Physically yourself? You guys like to play with > the mind. It is ok. But you are prisoners of the mind. And you call > that enlightenment. You laugh but you don't know! I don't laugh at > mozart. He know more the music stuff than me! You laugh as if you > know. And when someone seems to know, well you laugh at him. > > You are soo deep in your sh>@ that you think that that smell is > normal. That everything is illusion and fake and not true. Etc. One > sees a glimpse of the Self and because it is not stable for that > moment says nothing is stable, all is fake and untrue. $$#@#@!@ And > the worse part is that you try to teach your non sense to tell > everyone that you are right! Poor emperors. What is going on is soo > sad. You are crazy and think that you have reached the Truth, the > Self. There are step to see if one has reached something. 1- if you > say you are a musician you must learn at least one instrument. If > not you are not a musician. Is that clear enough for your crazy > brains. The brain, your god is your brain and you say that you don't > worship gods you are above!!! You are very lucky that master Nis or > Ramana is not here to kik your asses. You don't know what you are > talking about. > > I understand it is because you don't have a true master like master > Nis or buddha or Ramana etc. but guys please just don't pretend you > have reached a level when you have not a single idea of what this > level is about! This is a Nisargadatta web site and most of you act > as if you know more or have achieved more than he did! It is none > sense! > > This does not apply to you Alexandra the great. ;0) > > This way my two cents, > > Odysseus, > > P.S. to answer you Eric, am 2 years old! :0 sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Odysseus: P.S. to answer you Eric, am 2 years old! :0 Eric: sure. Odysseus: :0) ha ha ha! Of course not I am 3 years old! :0) and I believe in Santa , Christmas, too and I love candies... well that is true. Well some " times " ... but if time does not exist? That means candies does not exist? If they don't exist, that means that I can't love them because they are not real? So Love is unreal? If Love and candies and Santa are unreal that means that I must be unreal too? AAAAhhhhhh!! My one cell brain is exploding!!!! aaaahhhh! Hey why should I care it is an illusory brain too!! So " truth " or Reality, not fake, is " illusion " ! Wow! What a discovery! The root of the Real is the Non-real, illusion. I don't agree with that but you choose, what to believe. Maybe you've parked your car somewhere in Tao and you think it is over? I don't know. You know. R.I.P. Love Odysseus, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > Odysseus: P.S. to answer you Eric, am 2 years old! :0 > > Eric: sure. > > Odysseus: :0) ha ha ha! Of course not I am 3 years old! :0) > and I believe in Santa , Christmas, too and I love candies... well > that is true. Well some " times " ... but if time does not exist? That > means candies does not exist? If they don't exist, that means that I > can't love them because they are not real? So Love is unreal? If > Love and candies and Santa are unreal that means that I must be > unreal too? AAAAhhhhhh!! My one cell brain is exploding!!!! > aaaahhhh! Hey why should I care it is an illusory brain too!! > So " truth " or Reality, not fake, is " illusion " ! Wow! What a > discovery! The root of the Real is the Non-real, illusion. I don't > agree with that but you choose, what to believe. Maybe you've parked > your car somewhere in Tao and you think it is over? I don't know. > You know. > > R.I.P. > Love > Odysseus, i see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Eric wrote: Then my symbole is mine and no one tells me i am not enlightened or i am not that or not in possession of my own meaning ... In effect, if you prefer to see it this way. I just look from slightly different angle into this matter. We are just the " effect " of such symbols (signifiers) as well as, those, telling you that you are not in possesion of something or not enlightened or realized are, also, effects of symbols (signifiers). Conducted by symbols like in an imaginary puppet-play. Here, again, the Lacanian concept of the mirror stage seems to work. The imaginary is the realm of subjective experience, the world as it appears to the subject. Lacan explains the genesis of the Imaginary in the Mirror Stage. The archaic experience in which the infant encounters his or her reflection in the gaze of the other (mother). From that moment on, both the child's perception of the world and his fantasies will be informed by the experience of such a gaze [it constitutes simultaneously also the entrance into the realm of objects and subjects; the subject is seen through the gaze of the other for the first time, the subject becomes simultaneously an object]. This demonstrates how dependent we are and will be then from that gaze and gazes in general. Critique, for example, can be experienced as a fragmentation of this primordial reflection; a critical, clinical gaze (always seemingly coming from an other) doesn't correspond to the overwhelming and exuberant experience of wholeness of the primordial reflection. In short, as you see, we depend on each other regarding our subjective homeostasis in the imaginary display of this puppet- theater. But, it is a misconception, an " artificially " created scenery in spite of everything, generated in the Mirror Stage. It belongs to the imaginary, as well as, you and me are just " effects " of signifiers, symbols or/and conditionings. We became " someone elses " in the Mirror Stage. Kip Almazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 We became " someone elses " in the Mirror Stage.......with other words, sons and daughters of barren women ;-) Kip Almazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Eric Paroissien wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > Odysseus: P.S. to answer you Eric, am 2 years old! :0 > > > > Eric: sure. > > > > Odysseus: :0) ha ha ha! Of course not I am 3 years old! :0) > > and I believe in Santa , Christmas, too and I love candies... well > > that is true. Well some " times " ... but if time does not exist? > That > > means candies does not exist? If they don't exist, that means that > I > > can't love them because they are not real? So Love is unreal? If > > Love and candies and Santa are unreal that means that I must be > > unreal too? AAAAhhhhhh!! My one cell brain is exploding!!!! > > aaaahhhh! Hey why should I care it is an illusory brain too!! > > So " truth " or Reality, not fake, is " illusion " ! Wow! What a > > discovery! The root of the Real is the Non-real, illusion. I don't > > agree with that but you choose, what to believe. Maybe you've > parked > > your car somewhere in Tao and you think it is over? I don't know. > > You know. > > > > R.I.P. > > Love > > Odysseus, > > i see. Said the blind man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> wrote: > > We became " someone elses " in the Mirror Stage.......with other > words, sons and daughters of barren women > > ;-) > > > Kip Almazy Some of you know the wabi sabi japanese concept of aesthetics: an unconspicuous object or a thought, completely ignored or overlooked by the normative greedy mind, devoid of meaning but for me alone in this moment alone expresses me completely although it would be considered by most, anti-cultural and boredom. All around, no flowers in bloom, Nor maple leaves in glare, A solitary fisherman's hut alone On the twilight shore Of this autumn eve. http://www.tjnelson.com/wabisabi.htm it bears a taste of lost moments and the uselessness and puniness of human life, that only vanity can show under a light of glory or achievement, yet suddenly places the soul in the quiet eternal rest (coma/apocopé) between two desires or two actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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