Guest guest Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 L: >One set of stories can be given by persons who says they have " direct perception or apperception. " They tell you in the best way possible what >it is like. Out come some stories and these are compared in whatever way one likes. I suppose those who are seen as enlightened would be good >candidates for this. But I have not read or heard a good rendition from them on how they experience first hand mundane things in daily life. >Like what do they see when they see an apple or a kid or sunset or anything ordinary. If any one has such detailed reports or where I can >read them I would be very pleased. P: I once found in the Chicago Public Library a very thick book on satories, samadhis, enlightements, etc. It had over a hundred stories of such from all over the world. I no longer recall the title, but I am sure The New York Public Library must have it too. There is, or was in England an organization which compiled contemporary stories on the subject. I believe they have also published several tomes. That kind of reading is very motivating if one is interested in the subject, but not very illuminating if you have not undergone a similar experience. For those who have no clue it could be at best, only a kind religious poetry. If I wanted to give a description of how I see objects while seeing directly I could say each object is like a smiling baby face returning my gaze. But that's only a metaphor for that feeling of love and recognition when a baby stare into your eyes and smiles. Getting that kind of feeling from a tree, or a cloud, or an apple is great. Does it happens all the time? No, but often when the mind is quiet. Have I explained anything. I doubt it. People with parietal lobe epilepsy get this kind of oceanic feelings also. They describe the world and their perception of it as one, they describe love coming at them from every object. So it could be a matter of how your brain is wired, and what voltage goes thru those connections. Does meditation rewire your brain? There are experimental indications that it does. Some animals love the smell and taste of carrion, and if they could talk they could describe how good that feels, but we won't be any wiser because our brains are wired to detest that smell. So many traits associated with enlightenment are also present in some people who are far from wise. Take lack of fear and imperturbability, many sociopaths have those qualities. Take total confidence, a lot of dictators have had total confidence in their destiny. So one could have great calm, lack of fear, great confidence, all kinds of feelings of union, happiness, lack of suffering etc. most of the time and it could only be due to the wiring of the brain either at birth, or thru meditation. Do all those qualities and feelings put together qualify anyone to the title of enlightened? not in my opinion, but it's a damn nice way to live. I do recommend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Pedsie2 wrote: > > > L: >One set of stories can be given by persons who says they have " direct > perception or apperception. " They tell you in the best way possible what > >it is like. Out come some stories and these are compared in whatever way > one likes. I suppose those who are seen as enlightened would be good > >candidates for this. But I have not read or heard a good rendition from > them on how they experience first hand mundane things in daily life. > >Like what do they see when they see an apple or a kid or sunset or > anything ordinary. If any one has such detailed reports or where I can > >read them I would be very pleased. > > P: I once found in the Chicago Public Library a very thick book on > satories, samadhis, enlightements, etc. It had over a hundred > stories > of such from all over the world. I no longer recall the title, but I am > sure The New York Public Library must have it too. There is, or was > in England an organization which compiled contemporary stories > on the subject. I believe they have also published several tomes. > That kind of reading is very motivating if one is interested in the > subject, but not very illuminating if you have not undergone a > similar experience. For those who have no clue it could be at best, > only a kind religious poetry. I will research it. > > If I wanted to give a description of how I see objects while seeing directly > I could say each object is like a smiling baby face returning my gaze. > But that's only a metaphor for that feeling of love and recognition > when a baby stare into your eyes and smiles. Getting that kind of > feeling from a tree, or a cloud, or an apple is great. Does it happens > all the time? No, but often when the mind is quiet. Have I explained > anything. I doubt it. People with parietal lobe epilepsy get this kind > of oceanic feelings also. They describe the world and their perception > of it as one, they describe love coming at them from every object. > > So it could be a matter of how your brain is wired, and what voltage > goes thru those connections. Does meditation rewire your brain? There > are experimental indications that it does. > > Some animals love the smell and taste of carrion, and if they could talk > they could describe how good that feels, but we won't be any wiser because > our brains are wired to detest that smell. So many traits associated with > enlightenment are also present in some people who are far from wise. Take > lack > of fear and imperturbability, many sociopaths have those qualities. Take > total > confidence, a lot of dictators have had total confidence in their destiny. > > So one could have great calm, lack of fear, great > confidence, all > kinds > of feelings of union, happiness, lack of suffering etc. most of the time > and it could only be due to the wiring of the brain either at birth, or > thru meditation. Do all those qualities and feelings put together qualify > anyone to the title of enlightened? not in my opinion, but it's a damn nice > way to live. I do recommend it. Thanks for this, Pete. It is a service. Let me do one in turn. For whatever reason, life is a continuous doing and experiencing for me and the this feels like I am breathing in, drinking in everything that appears to me and stuff that does not appear to me directly like ambient sounds and so on. It is always always flowing in and it all goes into a darkness, where it is moving around, gentle movements. There is no thought at all, just this constant inflow, drawing in and flowing into this darkness. If something draws me to it then it flows more intensely than when I am simply walking from here to there. When I am breathing in or drinking something with intensity arising from the appearance, all flows into that darkness without thought. I do not know what is flowing in. There is no distinction of what flows in, it is all just stuff. There is no thought on the inflow. So, I do not have knowledge of what something is on the inflow. It is all the same thing, one flow into that darkness with these movements. But when something requires action there is an outflow. And the outflow seems to match what is required unless there is something that gets stuck in the darkness and does not allow action. There is halting and handling of something until it becomes clear to go on. Still no thought. Just doing as the circumstances require. Thoughts do not appear most of the time. They only come out when required like in posting or some task that requires it. Thoughts come out from the darkness. They just emerge and are written or spoken as they do so without effort. Everything looks like it always looked and looks. The appearances are just there. But when I spend time with an appearance, for whatever reason and letting it flow into the darkness, something happens so that it comes to have greater interest and attraction and if the inflow is attractive then the outflow flows towards it without ceasing until it is done. The variety of the outflow changes in different circumstances. For example, there do not seem to be any distinct emotions. There are clear sensations of pleasantness to calm to unpleasantness, each varying in intensity on the doing at hand along a very finely graded range that seems to go to infinite in either direction, which can be a real ride if pleasantness goes far east or unpleasantness goes far west.. Most of the time it is in the calm and shifting to one side or another as the day's appearances are encountered. Unpleasantness happens when the inflow or outflow is interrupted and blocked in some way and there is no going forward in doing with inflow and outflow happening smoothly. There is a hampering, a hindrance of the flows and it feels like a burning sensation in the chest. There are of course the inflow of tragedy, suffering and those matters but this is, perhaps, enough for now. Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Pete wrote: If I wanted to give a description of how I see objects while seeing directly I could say each object is like a smiling baby face returning my gaze. But that's only a metaphor for that feeling of love and recognition when a baby stare into your eyes and smiles. Sir, aaaaaah, my dear grandfather, I bow in front of you......you see it isn´t so difficult to understand what I am talking about....all that stuff.....about gazes and mothers and (m)others.....about love, love my dear..... you are using the l-word, grandfather.......shame on you! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > > L: >One set of stories can be given by persons who says they have " direct > perception or apperception. " They tell you in the best way possible what > >it is like. Out come some stories and these are compared in whatever way > one likes. I suppose those who are seen as enlightened would be good > >candidates for this. But I have not read or heard a good rendition from > them on how they experience first hand mundane things in daily life. > >Like what do they see when they see an apple or a kid or sunset or > anything ordinary. If any one has such detailed reports or where I can > >read them I would be very pleased. > > P: I once found in the Chicago Public Library a very thick book on > satories, samadhis, enlightements, etc. It had over a hundred > stories > of such from all over the world. I no longer recall the title, but I am > sure The New York Public Library must have it too. There is, or was > in England an organization which compiled contemporary stories > on the subject. I believe they have also published several tomes. > That kind of reading is very motivating if one is interested in the > subject, but not very illuminating if you have not undergone a > similar experience. For those who have no clue it could be at best, > only a kind religious poetry. > > If I wanted to give a description of how I see objects while seeing directly > I could say each object is like a smiling baby face returning my gaze. > But that's only a metaphor for that feeling of love and recognition > when a baby stare into your eyes and smiles. Getting that kind of > feeling from a tree, or a cloud, or an apple is great. Does it happens > all the time? No, but often when the mind is quiet. Have I explained > anything. I doubt it. People with parietal lobe epilepsy get this kind > of oceanic feelings also. They describe the world and their perception > of it as one, they describe love coming at them from every object. > > So it could be a matter of how your brain is wired, and what voltage > goes thru those connections. Does meditation rewire your brain? There > are experimental indications that it does. > > Some animals love the smell and taste of carrion, and if they could talk > they could describe how good that feels, but we won't be any wiser because > our brains are wired to detest that smell. So many traits associated with > enlightenment are also present in some people who are far from wise. Take > lack > of fear and imperturbability, many sociopaths have those qualities. Take > total > confidence, a lot of dictators have had total confidence in their destiny. Not true. The superficial absence of thought-based fear is not the true liberation from fear. Wherever there is violence there is fear. Deep down in the layers of the subconscious there is still conflict. > > So one could have great calm, lack of fear, great confidence, all > kinds > of feelings of union, happiness, lack of suffering etc. most of the time > and it could only be due to the wiring of the brain either at birth, or > thru meditation. Do all those qualities and feelings put together qualify > anyone to the title of enlightened? not in my opinion, but it's a damn nice > way to live. I do recommend it. We cannot have true peace without becoming one and in harmony with Kosmos. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 In a message dated 1/21/05 11:19:36 PM, lbb10 writes: > > > >Thanks for this, Pete. It is a service. > P: Thank you, Lewis. What you wrote below I found familiar. See comments below your paragraphs. > L: Let me do one in turn. For > >whatever reason, life is a continuous doing and experiencing for me and > the this feels like I am breathing in, drinking in everything that > >appears to me and stuff that does not appear to me directly like ambient > sounds and so on. It is always flowing in and it all goes into a > >darkness, where it is moving around, gentle movements. There is no > thought at all, just this constant inflow, drawing in and flowing into > >this darkness. If something draws me to it then it flows more intensely > than when I am simply walking from here to there. When I am breathing in > or drinking something with intensity arising from the appearance, all > >flows into that darkness without thought. > P: Yes, I'm familiar with this darkness, specially when waking up, it seems it's not Pete who wakes up but only the darkness is there, and then gradually Pete flows into it like a gathering fog. If I sit in meditation then Pete begins to fade and the darkness is there again. It comes and goes, but it is not as perversive a presence as in your case. > L: >I do not know what is flowing in. There is no distinction of what flows > in, it is all just stuff. There is no thought on the inflow. So, I do > not have knowledge of what something is on the inflow. It is all the > >same thing, one flow into that darkness with these movements. > > >But when something requires action there is an outflow. And the outflow > seems to match what is required unless there is something that gets > >stuck in the darkness and does not allow action. There is halting and > handling of something until it becomes clear to go on. Still no thought. > Just doing as the circumstances require. > >Thoughts do not appear most of the time. They only come out when > required like in posting or some task that requires it. Thoughts come > out from the darkness. They just emerge and are written or spoken as > >they do so without effort. > P: Yes, actions and decisions flow with great ease most of the time, but, of course, I'm not an Airport controller. I'm a retired old fart, and my actions and decisions are usually about trivial matters. I seem to think quite a bit, but it just because I like to do it, not because I can't stop doing it, thinking is not a problem as before, when it was almost non-stop. > > L: The variety of the outflow changes in different circumstances. For > >example, there do not seem to be any distinct emotions. There are clear > sensations of pleasantness to calm to unpleasantness, each varying in > intensity on the doing at hand along a very finely graded range that > >seems to go to infinite in either direction, which can be a real ride if > pleasantness goes far east or unpleasantness goes far west.. Most of > the time it is in the calm and shifting to one side or another as the > >day's appearances are encountered. Unpleasantness happens when the > inflow or outflow is interrupted and blocked in some way and there is no > >going forward in doing with inflow and outflow happening smoothly. There > is a hampering, a hindrance of the flows and it feels like a burning > >sensation in the chest. > >There are of course the inflow of tragedy, suffering and those matters > >but this is, perhaps, enough for now. > P: I Have never been a very emotional guy, except for anger, which I still feel from time to time, but passes quickly. Sadness used to bother me, but doesn't any longer. I would probably suffer if my wife would die, but then I would be free to die myself. I'm beginning to experience being conscious as a burden, sometimes. So I don't think letting go of life would be much of a problem. As always, nice talking with you, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 In a message dated 1/22/05 1:35:24 AM, kipalmazy writes: > aaaaaah, my dear grandfather, I bow in front of you......you see it > isn´t so difficult to understand what I am talking about....all that > stuff.....about gazes and mothers and (m)others.....about love, love > my dear..... you are using the l-word, grandfather.......shame on > you! > > > ) > P: Dear Kip, We have always understood each other. We are really related, if not in flesh, in something more intangible. I have no idea what it is, but I feel kinship toward you. So there, and I feel free to use any damn word I please, including that four letter word with only one letter. Carajo! Vaya con este chaval! )) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > carolina112900 wrote: > > > > Dear Lewis, > > > > Can you tell me what it means > > to you to get conned? > > > > Thank you, > > > > ~freyja > > Hi Lewis, Thanks for your lucid response. I included a few comments below. > Hi freyja, > > Yes. Getting conned or more closely being conned is being self- deceived, > which begins with and happens through a conning (the use of deception > for a purpose or goal with a sense of intentionality or not) by another. > If one is conned without realizing it, that one continues on content and > secure in self-deception. Realizing that one is conned is to realize > that one has " bought " or believed or attached a " worthless property " as > being worthy, important, valuable and so on. When one realizes that they > have been conned or more closely, they have conned their " self, " this is > a very disturbing experience, for some it may be catastrophic. > ~~~Yes. Then there is that tendency when a con is exposed to latch onto another con -- there is this sense that if I don't believe or be involvew with something, I'll disappear, and then what? i'll lose it, won't be able to function well, people will have to take care of me.... and i just cannot have that! I realize that this is a belief, it is catastrophizing, and it is dis-ease. > In any case, the realization and all that it brings in the sensorium, > alerts one to the presence of an " artificial self, " " grasping, " > " attachments, " " delusions " or more simply, in my experience, as > " movements that interrupt doing and that require handling in the dark. " > (These sentences can be thrown out since they refer to indefinable > experience (throw this out, too) and one would need to undergo it know > it and if two could be singularly open and fearless it could be > discovered if there are words that mutually satisfy or present a more or > less close description or story). > ~~~it is all movement, but, for most, life is largely made up of one belief after another. Is there anything prior to the last belief that just came up? Putting aside the concept of deep sleep for a moment, it can be seen in meditation, or even in simple daydreaming, when the thoughts just pass through without any attachment, that you don't exist prior to the belief that you are in. Then, all of a sudden, a belief will pop up, for example, " Oh my, I am late " , and the dis-ease will start. In de-processing, or de-conning, there's an un-doing....belief by belief by belief. > So, not experiencing yet all of what is in in this conditioned mind and > body, there is a curiosity to explore it, to see if there are those > things there. That is the meaning of it for me as it is now. > ~~~There is a lot to be said for the sense of being completely comfortable, no sense of dis-ease, in any situation that may arise, any situation at all. If there is ever sense of dis-ease, there is, here too, a curiosity to explore it. > One way of discovering it is to be conned and then to realize the con > and to be free of that fixation. Or by doing on this forum, the self-con > can be discovered in exchange with others who expose it. This forum is > good place to experience conning of either sort related to the intellect > as it is a domain of jnana yoga that deals with that. A lot o intellects > around here. Other experiences are necessary for other cons not related > to the intellect such as those cons exposed or revealed through the > practice of bhakti yoga, raja yoga, etc. and life experiences that shake > out self-cons in their way. So I am here for de-conning. > ~~~ " My " de-conning is very eclectic, just taking it as it comes. > For example, many people the world over in jnana yoga or Buddhism of > every variety, and so on are conned into believing that there is a > distinct " awareness, " " consciousness, " " pure consciousness " " pure > awareness without being aware, " " apperception " " direct perception " > " what is " and " that which is " " this, " " emptiness, " " Atman " " Anatman " > 'mind " and that such are valuable properties of some sort to point to, > think about or achieve or experience. These exist as they do and the > pointing to these as something more than a word or concept is a sign of > the conned. Trying to achieve or do something with these is continuing > in the self-con. > ~~~Yes. I actually don't see what the big deal with anything, with all those states. The 'highest truth' is the one you're in, and that's it. A lot of stuff that is out there is actually creating the separation that it purports that it is trying to get rid of. > That's it. > ~~~thanks! ~freyja > Good service point freyja. > > > Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Nisargadatta , " carolina112900 " <freyjartist@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > carolina112900 wrote: > > > > > > Dear Lewis, > > > > > > Can you tell me what it means > > > to you to get conned? > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > ~freyja > > > > > > > Hi Lewis, > > Thanks for your lucid response. > I included a few comments below. > > > Hi freyja, > > > > Yes. Getting conned or more closely being conned is being self- > deceived, > > which begins with and happens through a conning (the use of > deception > > for a purpose or goal with a sense of intentionality or not) by > another. > > If one is conned without realizing it, that one continues on > content and > > secure in self-deception. Realizing that one is conned is to > realize > > that one has " bought " or believed or attached a " worthless > property " as > > being worthy, important, valuable and so on. When one realizes that > they > > have been conned or more closely, they have conned their " self, " > this is > > a very disturbing experience, for some it may be catastrophic. > > > > > ~~~Yes. Then there is that tendency when a con > is exposed to latch onto another con -- > there is this sense that if I don't believe > or be involvew with something, I'll disappear, > and then what? > i'll lose it, won't be able to function well, > people will have to take care of me.... > and i just cannot have that! I realize that > this is a belief, it is catastrophizing, > and it is dis-ease. > ~~~~Ironically, I also see that the more beliefs are un-done, the more sense of ease there is with people and society, and resting in a confidence that things do just get done by themselves, without my help, just singing a song, and meditation is not something you sit and do, it is an on-going. > > > In any case, the realization and all that it brings in the > sensorium, > > alerts one to the presence of an " artificial self, " " grasping, " > > " attachments, " " delusions " or more simply, in my experience, as > > " movements that interrupt doing and that require handling in the > dark. " > > (These sentences can be thrown out since they refer to indefinable > > experience (throw this out, too) and one would need to undergo it > know > > it and if two could be singularly open and fearless it could be > > discovered if there are words that mutually satisfy or present a > more or > > less close description or story). > > > > ~~~it is all movement, but, > for most, life is largely made > up of one belief after another. > Is there anything prior to the last belief > that just came up? Putting aside > the concept of deep sleep for a moment, > it can be seen in meditation, or even in > simple daydreaming, when the thoughts just > pass through without any attachment, and no beliefs are present, > that you don't exist prior to the belief > that you are in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Quoting carolina112900 <freyjartist: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > carolina112900 wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Lewis, > > > > > > > > Can you tell me what it means > > > > to you to get conned? > > > > > > > > Thank you, > > > > > > > > ~freyja > > > > > Hi Lewis, > > > > Thanks for your lucid response. > > I included a few comments below. > > > > > Hi freyja, > > > > > > Yes. Getting conned or more closely being conned is being self- > > deceived, > > > which begins with and happens through a conning (the use of > > deception > > > for a purpose or goal with a sense of intentionality or not) by > > another. > > > If one is conned without realizing it, that one continues on > > content and > > > secure in self-deception. Realizing that one is conned is to > > realize > > > that one has " bought " or believed or attached a " worthless > > property " as > > > being worthy, important, valuable and so on. When one realizes > that > > they > > > have been conned or more closely, they have conned their > " self, " > > this is > > > a very disturbing experience, for some it may be catastrophic. > > ~~~Yes. Then there is that tendency when a con > > is exposed to latch onto another con -- > > there is this sense that if I don't believe > > or be involvew with something, I'll disappear, > > and then what? > > i'll lose it, won't be able to function well, > > people will have to take care of me.... > > and i just cannot have that! I realize that > > this is a belief, it is catastrophizing, > > and it is dis-ease. This happens. > > In any case, the realization and all that it brings in the > > sensorium, > > > alerts one to the presence of an " artificial self, " " grasping, " > > > " attachments, " " delusions " or more simply, in my experience, as > > > " movements that interrupt doing and that require handling in > the > > dark. " > > > (These sentences can be thrown out since they refer to > indefinable > > > experience (throw this out, too) and one would need to undergo > it > > know > > > it and if two could be singularly open and fearless it could be > > > discovered if there are words that mutually satisfy or present > a > > more or > > > less close description or story). > > > > > > > ~~~it is all movement, but, > > for most, life is largely made > > up of one belief after another. > > Is there anything prior to the last belief > > that just came up? Putting aside > > the concept of deep sleep for a moment, > > it can be seen in meditation, or even in > > simple daydreaming, when the thoughts just > > pass through without any attachment, > > that you don't exist prior to the belief > > that you are in. Then, all of a sudden, > > a belief will pop up, for example, " Oh my, I am late " , > > and the dis-ease will start. > > In de-processing, or de-conning, > > there's an un-doing....belief by belief by belief. Yes. > > So, not experiencing yet all of what is in in this conditioned > mind > > and > > > body, there is a curiosity to explore it, to see if there are > those > > > things there. That is the meaning of it for me as it is now. > > ~~~There is a lot to be said for > > the sense of being completely comfortable, > > no sense of dis-ease, > > in any situation that may arise, any situation > > at all. If there is ever sense of dis-ease, > > there is, here too, a curiosity to explore it. Yes. > > One way of discovering it is to be conned and then to realize > the > > con > > > and to be free of that fixation. Or by doing on this forum, the > > self-con > > > can be discovered in exchange with others who expose it. This > forum > > is > > > good place to experience conning of either sort related to the > > intellect > > > as it is a domain of jnana yoga that deals with that. A lot o > > intellects > > > around here. Other experiences are necessary for other cons not > > related > > > to the intellect such as those cons exposed or revealed through > the > > > practice of bhakti yoga, raja yoga, etc. and life experiences > that > > shake > > > out self-cons in their way. So I am here for de-conning. > > > > > > > ~~~ " My " de-conning is very eclectic, just > > taking it as it comes. Yes. We come into different conditions not always knowing how and in this we undergo what is required as the conditions flow, whatever that may be. > > > > > > > For example, many people the world over in jnana yoga or > Buddhism > > of > > > every variety, and so on are conned into believing that there > is a > > > distinct " awareness, " " consciousness, " " pure consciousness " > " pure > > > awareness without being aware, " " apperception " " direct > perception " > > > " what is " and " that which > > is " " this, " " emptiness, " " Atman " " Anatman " > > > 'mind " and that such are valuable properties of some sort to > point > > to, > > > think about or achieve or experience. These exist as they do > and > > the > > > pointing to these as something more than a word or concept is a > > sign of > > > the conned. Trying to achieve or do something with these is > > continuing > > > in the self-con. > > ~~~Yes. I actually don't see what the > > big deal with anything, with all those > > states. The 'highest truth' is the one > > you're in, and that's it. > > A lot of stuff that is out there > > is actually creating the separation that > > it purports that it is trying to get rid > > of. That is curious. I do not know how I have come to experience as I do and becoming more unable to do what was done before. There is no resting place it keeps going on. > > > > That's it. > > ~~~thanks! > > > > ~freyja > Your welcome and it is pleasant to see eye to eye. Tell me more of what you have undergone as it goes with you or not. Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 1/21/05 11:19:36 PM, lbb10@c... writes: > > > > > > > > >Thanks for this, Pete. It is a service. > > > P: Thank you, Lewis. What you wrote below I found familiar. > See comments below your paragraphs. > > > > L: Let me do one in turn. For > > >whatever reason, life is a continuous doing and experiencing for me and > > the this feels like I am breathing in, drinking in everything that > > >appears to me and stuff that does not appear to me directly like ambient > > sounds and so on. It is always flowing in and it all goes into a > > >darkness, where it is moving around, gentle movements. There is no > > thought at all, just this constant inflow, drawing in and flowing into > > >this darkness. If something draws me to it then it flows more intensely > > than when I am simply walking from here to there. When I am breathing in > > or drinking something with intensity arising from the appearance, all > > >flows into that darkness without thought. > > > P: Yes, I'm familiar with this darkness, specially when waking up, it > seems > it's not Pete who wakes up but only the darkness is there, and then > gradually Pete flows into it like a gathering fog. If > I sit in meditation then Pete begins to fade and the darkness > is there again. It comes and goes, but it is not as perversive a presence > as in your case. I enjoy this metaphore of darkness in your exchange, i thought it was courageous of Lewis to introduce it as it may easily be misinterpreted. The counselor of Hitler, Bormann had dug his quarters in the heart of a Bavarian mountain, 45 storey's down in the belly of the mountain, that's how i feel about one's presence in the world; and yes the morning is a special time to know it but it is always there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 > > > > > > ~~~Yes. I actually don't see what the > > > > big deal with anything, with all those > > > > states. The 'highest truth' is the one > > > > you're in, and that's it. > > > > A lot of stuff that is out there > > > > is actually creating the separation that > > > > it purports that it is trying to get rid > > > > of. > > > That is curious. I do not know how I have come to experience as I do > and becoming more unable to do what was done before. There is no > resting place it keeps going on. > ~~~ " No resting place " ...Now, how key is that!? No conclusions, no resting place, only perpetual motion. I 'could' link up all the metaphysical and otherwise stuff that happened or I experienced, and some of it is very bizarre, into a story of transformation, or something like that, but that seems....limiting and not that important or germane to anything other than sharing stories. Not that I am averse to the sharing of experiences, but to give them special recognition as causes for anything would be more con. Some things are noteworthy as milestones, and stand out, sure. " And these memories lose their meaning, when I think of love as something new. " (from In My Life, Beatles) > > > > > > > > That's it. > > > > > ~~~thanks! > > > > > > > > ~freyja > > > > > Your welcome and it is pleasant to see eye to eye. Tell me more of > what you have undergone as it goes with you or not. > > Lewis OK, Lewis. Someone extremely dear to me named Louis just passed away, and when I see your name I am celebrating his beautiful life over and over. Like the son says to the dying father who asks his son to tell him the story of " how it happens " in the Tim Burton film, Big Fish, " You become what you always were -- A very big fish " . ~freyja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Quoting carolina112900 <freyjartist: > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~Yes. I actually don't see what the > > > > > > > > big deal with anything, with all those > > > > > > > > states. The 'highest truth' is the one > > > > > > > > you're in, and that's it. > > > > > > > > A lot of stuff that is out there > > > > > > > > is actually creating the separation that > > > > > > > > it purports that it is trying to get rid > > > > > > > > of. > > > > > > > > > That is curious. I do not know how I have come to experience as > I do > > > and becoming more unable to do what was done before. There is > no > > > resting place it keeps going on. > > ~~~ " No resting place " ...Now, how key is that!? > > No conclusions, no resting place, only > > perpetual motion. > > I 'could' link up all the metaphysical > > and otherwise stuff that happened > > or I experienced, and some of it is very > > bizarre, into a story of > > transformation, or something like that, > > but that seems....limiting and not that > > important or germane to anything other > > than sharing stories. > > Not that I am averse to the sharing of > > experiences, but to give them special > > recognition as causes for anything > > would be more con. Some things are noteworthy > > as milestones, and stand out, sure. > > " And these memories lose their meaning, > > when I think of love as something new. " > > (from In My Life, Beatles) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's it. > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~thanks! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~freyja > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your welcome and it is pleasant to see eye to eye. Tell me more > of > > > what you have undergone as it goes with you or not. > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > OK, Lewis. Someone extremely dear to me > > named Louis just passed away, > > and when I see your name I am celebrating > > his beautiful life over and over. > > Like the son says to the dying father > > who asks his son to tell him the story > > of " how it happens " > > in the Tim Burton film, Big Fish, > > " You become what you always were -- > > A very big fish " . > > > > ~freyja It is our ability to retain that which we cherish and embrace without possession and to enjoy and to dream of all without wishful thinking that which has touched us in that darkness or light unknown in all the ways that that is possible and without this we move blindly without fully living, learning, appreciating, sharing, loving, giving, enduring, suffering, and all that can be crudely described in words that colors our duration and it is this that makes perpetual motion delightful and worthy. We are not machines. Lewis Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2005 Report Share Posted January 23, 2005 Quoting Pedsie2: > > In a message dated 1/21/05 11:19:36 PM, lbb10 > writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Thanks for this, Pete. It is a service. > > > > > P: Thank you, Lewis. What you wrote below I found familiar. > > See comments below your paragraphs. > > > > > > > L: Let me do one in turn. For > > > >whatever reason, life is a continuous doing and experiencing > for me and > > > the this feels like I am breathing in, drinking in everything > that > > > >appears to me and stuff that does not appear to me directly > like ambient > > > sounds and so on. It is always flowing in and it all goes into > a > > > >darkness, where it is moving around, gentle movements. There > is no > > > thought at all, just this constant inflow, drawing in and > flowing into > > > >this darkness. If something draws me to it then it flows more > intensely > > > than when I am simply walking from here to there. When I am > breathing in > > > or drinking something with intensity arising from the > appearance, all > > > >flows into that darkness without thought. > > > > > P: Yes, I'm familiar with this darkness, specially when waking > up, it > > seems > > it's not Pete who wakes up but only the darkness is there, and > then > > gradually Pete flows into it like a gathering fog. If > > I sit in meditation then Pete begins to fade and the darkness > > is there again. It comes and goes, but it is not as perversive a > presence > > as in your case. > > > > > L: >I do not know what is flowing in. There is no distinction > of what flows > > > in, it is all just stuff. There is no thought on the inflow. > So, I do > > > not have knowledge of what something is on the inflow. It is > all the > > > >same thing, one flow into that darkness with these movements. > > > > > > >But when something requires action there is an outflow. And > the outflow > > > seems to match what is required unless there is something that > gets > > > >stuck in the darkness and does not allow action. There is > halting and > > > handling of something until it becomes clear to go on. Still no > thought. > > > Just doing as the circumstances require. > > > >Thoughts do not appear most of the time. They only come out > when > > > required like in posting or some task that requires it. > Thoughts come > > > out from the darkness. They just emerge and are written or > spoken as > > > >they do so without effort. > > > > > P: Yes, actions and decisions flow with great ease most of the > time, > > but, of course, I'm not an Airport controller. I'm a retired > old fart, > > and > > my actions and decisions are usually about trivial matters. I > seem to > > think quite a bit, but it just because I like to do it, not > because I can't > > stop > > doing it, thinking is not a problem as before, when it was almost > non-stop. > > > > > > > > > > L: The variety of the outflow changes in different > circumstances. For > > > >example, there do not seem to be any distinct emotions. There > are clear > > > sensations of pleasantness to calm to unpleasantness, each > varying in > > > intensity on the doing at hand along a very finely graded range > that > > > >seems to go to infinite in either direction, which can be a > real ride if > > > pleasantness goes far east or unpleasantness goes far west.. > Most of > > > the time it is in the calm and shifting to one side or another > as the > > > >day's appearances are encountered. Unpleasantness happens when > the > > > inflow or outflow is interrupted and blocked in some way and > there is no > > > >going forward in doing with inflow and outflow happening > smoothly. There > > > is a hampering, a hindrance of the flows and it feels like a > burning > > > >sensation in the chest. > > > >There are of course the inflow of tragedy, suffering and those > matters > > > >but this is, perhaps, enough for now. > > > > > P: I Have never been a very emotional guy, except for anger, > which > > I still feel from time to time, but passes quickly. Sadness > used to bother > > me, > > but doesn't any longer. I would probably suffer if my wife > would die, but > > then > > I would be free to die myself. I'm beginning to experience > being conscious > > as > > a burden, sometimes. So I don't think letting go of life would > be much of > > a problem. > > > > As always, nice talking with you, > > > > Pete And it is the same with me. Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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