Guest guest Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fmraerdy " <mybox234@b...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lewis Burgess " <lbb10@c...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Who are you? > > > > > > > > > > Memory + awareness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you? > > > > > > > > > > Memory + awareness. > > > > > > Anders, > > > > Since I do not experience awareness and memory as distinct, I wonder > if, > > in your experience, when you express in words, do words emerge from > > awareness and memory as one, or separately coming from each or neither > > or some other experience? How is your experience of speech and writing > > related to awareness and memory? > > > > Lewis > > Awareness I see as being conscious, and memory as phenomena awareness > is conscious of. All phenomena becomes present in our awareness only > " after " it has been " created " . Even speech, writing, thoughts e t c > are phenomena, and is always " old " , always the " past " , and that is why > I call it memory. > > /AL Anders, in fact you deny your angle's credit by calling all thoughts a memory, when you say " everything i say is of the past " or " everything i perceive is already memory " , you credit a function that could know it, *yet no be itself a perception of the past*. an example: an old man says " oh, i'm getting old i don't drive anymore because i always see the cars when it's too late! " ... but how does he know that? ... because he's been surprised several times and even bumped once ... then, two possibilities: a) he sees cars too late but he knows he's been bumped real time (you need to compare the " late " with a real time now event. b) he's been told by someone else that he was slow and late (but in your case Anders, who told you your life is only memories?) certainly a snail does not see itself slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Eric Paroissien " <ericparoissien@g...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fmraerdy " <mybox234@b...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lewis Burgess " > <lbb10@c...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who are you? > > > > > > > > > > > > Memory + awareness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you? > > > > > > > > > > > > Memory + awareness. > > > > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > Since I do not experience awareness and memory as distinct, I wonder > > if, > > > in your experience, when you express in words, do words emerge from > > > awareness and memory as one, or separately coming from each or > neither > > > or some other experience? How is your experience of speech and > writing > > > related to awareness and memory? > > > > > > Lewis > > > > Awareness I see as being conscious, and memory as phenomena awareness > > is conscious of. All phenomena becomes present in our awareness only > > " after " it has been " created " . Even speech, writing, thoughts e t c > > are phenomena, and is always " old " , always the " past " , and that is why > > I call it memory. > > > > /AL > > Anders, in fact you deny your angle's credit by calling all thoughts a > memory, when you say " everything i say is of the past " or " everything > i perceive is already memory " , you credit a function that could know > it, *yet no be itself a perception of the past*. > an example: an old man says " oh, i'm getting old i don't drive anymore > because i always see the cars when it's too late! " ... but how does he > know that? ... because he's been surprised several times and even > bumped once ... then, two possibilities: > a) he sees cars too late but he knows he's been bumped real time (you > need to compare the " late " with a real time now event. > b) he's been told by someone else that he was slow and late (but in > your case Anders, who told you your life is only memories?) > certainly a snail does not see itself slow. Science has shown that what is " outside " my awareness has already happened. Sense perceptions; something seen or heard has already happened when " I " become aware of them. The same goes for thoughts and emotions. It's all the past. There is also a non-local connection between everything to take into consideration, but that is more related to the " eternal now in which manifestation appears " than anything to do with time. From a non-local view everything happens at the same " time " in the eternal now, but from a relative perspective there is a timeline that goes from awareness.....to brain cells.....to sensory organs of the body.....to objects close by.....to objects farther away.....to the sky.....moon.....sun.....other stars.....other galaxies... The future is constantly being created _from_ awareness which is the non-dual unmanifested source of it all. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Paroissien " > <ericparoissien@g...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fmraerdy " <mybox234@b...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lewis Burgess " > > <lbb10@c...> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who are you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Memory + awareness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Memory + awareness. > > > > > > > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > Since I do not experience awareness and memory as distinct, I wonder > > > if, > > > > in your experience, when you express in words, do words emerge > from > > > > awareness and memory as one, or separately coming from each or > > neither > > > > or some other experience? How is your experience of speech and > > writing > > > > related to awareness and memory? > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > Awareness I see as being conscious, and memory as phenomena awareness > > > is conscious of. All phenomena becomes present in our awareness only > > > " after " it has been " created " . Even speech, writing, thoughts e t c > > > are phenomena, and is always " old " , always the " past " , and that is why > > > I call it memory. > > > > > > /AL > > > > Anders, in fact you deny your angle's credit by calling all thoughts a > > memory, when you say " everything i say is of the past " or " everything > > i perceive is already memory " , you credit a function that could know > > it, *yet no be itself a perception of the past*. > > an example: an old man says " oh, i'm getting old i don't drive anymore > > because i always see the cars when it's too late! " ... but how does he > > know that? ... because he's been surprised several times and even > > bumped once ... then, two possibilities: > > a) he sees cars too late but he knows he's been bumped real time (you > > need to compare the " late " with a real time now event. > > b) he's been told by someone else that he was slow and late (but in > > your case Anders, who told you your life is only memories?) > > certainly a snail does not see itself slow. > > Science has shown that what is " outside " my awareness has already > happened. Sense perceptions; something seen or heard has already > happened when " I " become aware of them. The same goes for thoughts and > emotions. It's all the past. There is also a non-local connection > between everything to take into consideration, but that is more > related to the " eternal now in which manifestation appears " than > anything to do with time. From a non-local view everything happens at > the same " time " in the eternal now, but from a relative perspective > there is a timeline that goes from awareness.....to brain cells.....to > sensory organs of the body.....to objects close by.....to objects > farther away.....to the sky.....moon.....sun.....other stars.....other > galaxies... > > The future is constantly being created _from_ awareness which is the > non-dual unmanifested source of it all. > > /AL Personally i would never trust anything like science or a master for my own business, especially that on Nisargadatta list what you are after is the most obvious fact to yourself and yourself alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Eric Paroissien " <ericparoissien@g...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Paroissien " > > <ericparoissien@g...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fmraerdy " <mybox234@b...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lewis Burgess " > > > <lbb10@c...> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who are you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Memory + awareness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Memory + awareness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > Since I do not experience awareness and memory as distinct, I > wonder > > > > if, > > > > > in your experience, when you express in words, do words emerge > > from > > > > > awareness and memory as one, or separately coming from each or > > > neither > > > > > or some other experience? How is your experience of speech and > > > writing > > > > > related to awareness and memory? > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > Awareness I see as being conscious, and memory as phenomena > awareness > > > > is conscious of. All phenomena becomes present in our awareness only > > > > " after " it has been " created " . Even speech, writing, thoughts e t c > > > > are phenomena, and is always " old " , always the " past " , and that > is why > > > > I call it memory. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > Anders, in fact you deny your angle's credit by calling all thoughts a > > > memory, when you say " everything i say is of the past " or " everything > > > i perceive is already memory " , you credit a function that could know > > > it, *yet no be itself a perception of the past*. > > > an example: an old man says " oh, i'm getting old i don't drive anymore > > > because i always see the cars when it's too late! " ... but how does he > > > know that? ... because he's been surprised several times and even > > > bumped once ... then, two possibilities: > > > a) he sees cars too late but he knows he's been bumped real time (you > > > need to compare the " late " with a real time now event. > > > b) he's been told by someone else that he was slow and late (but in > > > your case Anders, who told you your life is only memories?) > > > certainly a snail does not see itself slow. > > > > Science has shown that what is " outside " my awareness has already > > happened. Sense perceptions; something seen or heard has already > > happened when " I " become aware of them. The same goes for thoughts and > > emotions. It's all the past. There is also a non-local connection > > between everything to take into consideration, but that is more > > related to the " eternal now in which manifestation appears " than > > anything to do with time. From a non-local view everything happens at > > the same " time " in the eternal now, but from a relative perspective > > there is a timeline that goes from awareness.....to brain cells.....to > > sensory organs of the body.....to objects close by.....to objects > > farther away.....to the sky.....moon.....sun.....other stars.....other > > galaxies... > > > > The future is constantly being created _from_ awareness which is the > > non-dual unmanifested source of it all. > > > > /AL > > Personally i would never trust anything like science or a master for > my own business, especially that on Nisargadatta list what you are > after is the most obvious fact to yourself and yourself alone. I trust science and master from I own experiece and from the simple logic one can follow to find our for oneself. The difficult and frustrating part comes when logic no longer is enough. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Paroissien " > <ericparoissien@g...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Paroissien " > > > <ericparoissien@g...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fmraerdy " > <mybox234@b...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lewis Burgess " > > > > <lbb10@c...> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who are you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Memory + awareness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Memory + awareness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > > > Since I do not experience awareness and memory as distinct, I > > wonder > > > > > if, > > > > > > in your experience, when you express in words, do words emerge > > > from > > > > > > awareness and memory as one, or separately coming from each or > > > > neither > > > > > > or some other experience? How is your experience of speech and > > > > writing > > > > > > related to awareness and memory? > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > Awareness I see as being conscious, and memory as phenomena > > awareness > > > > > is conscious of. All phenomena becomes present in our > awareness only > > > > > " after " it has been " created " . Even speech, writing, thoughts > e t c > > > > > are phenomena, and is always " old " , always the " past " , and that > > is why > > > > > I call it memory. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > Anders, in fact you deny your angle's credit by calling all > thoughts a > > > > memory, when you say " everything i say is of the past " or > " everything > > > > i perceive is already memory " , you credit a function that could know > > > > it, *yet no be itself a perception of the past*. > > > > an example: an old man says " oh, i'm getting old i don't drive > anymore > > > > because i always see the cars when it's too late! " ... but how > does he > > > > know that? ... because he's been surprised several times and even > > > > bumped once ... then, two possibilities: > > > > a) he sees cars too late but he knows he's been bumped real time > (you > > > > need to compare the " late " with a real time now event. > > > > b) he's been told by someone else that he was slow and late (but in > > > > your case Anders, who told you your life is only memories?) > > > > certainly a snail does not see itself slow. > > > > > > Science has shown that what is " outside " my awareness has already > > > happened. Sense perceptions; something seen or heard has already > > > happened when " I " become aware of them. The same goes for thoughts and > > > emotions. It's all the past. There is also a non-local connection > > > between everything to take into consideration, but that is more > > > related to the " eternal now in which manifestation appears " than > > > anything to do with time. From a non-local view everything happens at > > > the same " time " in the eternal now, but from a relative perspective > > > there is a timeline that goes from awareness.....to brain cells.....to > > > sensory organs of the body.....to objects close by.....to objects > > > farther away.....to the sky.....moon.....sun.....other stars.....other > > > galaxies... > > > > > > The future is constantly being created _from_ awareness which is the > > > non-dual unmanifested source of it all. > > > > > > /AL > > > > Personally i would never trust anything like science or a master for > > my own business, especially that on Nisargadatta list what you are > > after is the most obvious fact to yourself and yourself alone. > > I trust science and master from I own experiece and from the simple > logic one can follow to find our for oneself. The difficult and > frustrating part comes when logic no longer is enough. > > /AL Hmm... Good English I manage to produce. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 26, 2005 Report Share Posted January 26, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Paroissien " > > <ericparoissien@g...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Eric Paroissien " > > > > <ericparoissien@g...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anders_lindman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fmraerdy " > > <mybox234@b...> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Lewis Burgess " > > > > > <lbb10@c...> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who are you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Memory + awareness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Memory + awareness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anders, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since I do not experience awareness and memory as distinct, I > > > wonder > > > > > > if, > > > > > > > in your experience, when you express in words, do words > emerge > > > > from > > > > > > > awareness and memory as one, or separately coming from each or > > > > > neither > > > > > > > or some other experience? How is your experience of speech and > > > > > writing > > > > > > > related to awareness and memory? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lewis > > > > > > > > > > > > Awareness I see as being conscious, and memory as phenomena > > > awareness > > > > > > is conscious of. All phenomena becomes present in our > > awareness only > > > > > > " after " it has been " created " . Even speech, writing, thoughts > > e t c > > > > > > are phenomena, and is always " old " , always the " past " , and that > > > is why > > > > > > I call it memory. > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > Anders, in fact you deny your angle's credit by calling all > > thoughts a > > > > > memory, when you say " everything i say is of the past " or > > " everything > > > > > i perceive is already memory " , you credit a function that > could know > > > > > it, *yet no be itself a perception of the past*. > > > > > an example: an old man says " oh, i'm getting old i don't drive > > anymore > > > > > because i always see the cars when it's too late! " ... but how > > does he > > > > > know that? ... because he's been surprised several times and even > > > > > bumped once ... then, two possibilities: > > > > > a) he sees cars too late but he knows he's been bumped real time > > (you > > > > > need to compare the " late " with a real time now event. > > > > > b) he's been told by someone else that he was slow and late > (but in > > > > > your case Anders, who told you your life is only memories?) > > > > > certainly a snail does not see itself slow. > > > > > > > > Science has shown that what is " outside " my awareness has already > > > > happened. Sense perceptions; something seen or heard has already > > > > happened when " I " become aware of them. The same goes for > thoughts and > > > > emotions. It's all the past. There is also a non-local connection > > > > between everything to take into consideration, but that is more > > > > related to the " eternal now in which manifestation appears " than > > > > anything to do with time. From a non-local view everything > happens at > > > > the same " time " in the eternal now, but from a relative perspective > > > > there is a timeline that goes from awareness.....to brain > cells.....to > > > > sensory organs of the body.....to objects close by.....to objects > > > > farther away.....to the sky.....moon.....sun.....other > stars.....other > > > > galaxies... > > > > > > > > The future is constantly being created _from_ awareness which is the > > > > non-dual unmanifested source of it all. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > Personally i would never trust anything like science or a master for > > > my own business, especially that on Nisargadatta list what you are > > > after is the most obvious fact to yourself and yourself alone. > > > > I trust science and master from I own experiece and from the simple > > logic one can follow to find our for oneself. The difficult and > > frustrating part comes when logic no longer is enough. > > > > /AL > > Hmm... Good English I manage to produce. :-) If someone could help it would be by removing obstacles, yet the addition of a theory on the brain and perception is one more burden; they are funny or surprising once and then used up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.