Guest guest Posted January 27, 2005 Report Share Posted January 27, 2005 Hi friends, Could there be some misuse in the traditional applying of the word " enlightenment " ? Isn't it just the skill to see the approaching subject in all its nakedness without any discrimination, prejudgment, opinion and cliché? So, what is behind of the traditional commotion? - Pretty useful thing - the clarifying conducts of own awareness - And I see here the tree major approaches, which depend on the chosen direction - First, In Hindu tradition – it's a journey inward, diving within your own awareness into the cell's level, molecular level, and may be even farther, - tracing own roots to the level of pure energy and consciousness Second – it's the journey outward, when you try to comprehend the supture on own level and farther and farther ... imagine to observe the aliens of unknown nature Third, and the most difficult, is a challenging of own awareness, a careful questioning and, if necessary, rebuilding of the " old " equipment - the alert attention to new possibilities What is common for all three journeys, - we don't use our thoughts with their linear capabilities to get in You shouldn't try to grasp it or to detect it, just be There is an infinite multi-multi-multi-multidimensional and multi-multi-multi-multifaceted spinning in any possible and impossible ways chaotic disorder with its infinite immeasurable possibilities We don't show up there with our language like in the discussion club with the ideas " Guys I love you, let's be friends, I just want to be the silent observer " ... and so on ... Just smile and be Love to all, Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 I believe that the principal way is: to sse the things like the things are. To see like the witness only. To sse the things like the things are, is really do not anything. Nirgunananda - leorozum Nisargadatta Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:14 AM The roads/approaches for/of/to the awareness Hi friends, Could there be some misuse in the traditional applying of the word " enlightenment " ? Isn't it just the skill to see the approaching subject in all its nakedness without any discrimination, prejudgment, opinion and cliché? So, what is behind of the traditional commotion? - Pretty useful thing - the clarifying conducts of own awareness - And I see here the tree major approaches, which depend on the chosen direction - First, In Hindu tradition - it's a journey inward, diving within your own awareness into the cell's level, molecular level, and may be even farther, - tracing own roots to the level of pure energy and consciousness Second - it's the journey outward, when you try to comprehend the supture on own level and farther and farther ... imagine to observe the aliens of unknown nature Third, and the most difficult, is a challenging of own awareness, a careful questioning and, if necessary, rebuilding of the " old " equipment - the alert attention to new possibilities What is common for all three journeys, - we don't use our thoughts with their linear capabilities to get in You shouldn't try to grasp it or to detect it, just be There is an infinite multi-multi-multi-multidimensional and multi-multi-multi-multifaceted spinning in any possible and impossible ways chaotic disorder with its infinite immeasurable possibilities We don't show up there with our language like in the discussion club with the ideas " Guys I love you, let's be friends, I just want to be the silent observer " ... and so on ... Just smile and be Love to all, Leo ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Nirgunananda " <nirgunananda@t...> wrote: > I believe that the principal way is: to sse the things like the things are. To see like the witness only. To sse the things like the things are, is really do not anything. > > Nirgunananda Beyond being the witness, there is clear knowing of/as nonseparation. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Nirgunananda " <nirgunananda@t...> wrote: > I believe that the principal way is: to sse the things like the things are. To see like the witness only. To sse the things like the things are, is really do not anything. Not doing anything can be a subtle trap that keeps us in bondage. Who is the one doing nothing? True liberation comes with the total cessation of inner conflict. /AL > > Nirgunananda > - > leorozum > Nisargadatta > Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:14 AM > The roads/approaches for/of/to the awareness > > > > > Hi friends, > > Could there be some misuse in the traditional applying of > the word " enlightenment " ? > Isn't it just the skill to see the approaching subject > in all its nakedness > without any discrimination, prejudgment, opinion and cliché? > > So, what is behind of the traditional commotion? - > > Pretty useful thing - the clarifying conducts of own awareness - > > And I see here the tree major approaches, > which depend on the chosen direction - > > First, > In Hindu tradition - it's a journey inward, > diving within your own awareness into the cell's level, > molecular level, and may be even farther, - > tracing own roots to the level of pure energy and consciousness > > Second - > it's the journey outward, when you try to comprehend > the supture on own level and farther and farther ... > imagine to observe the aliens of unknown nature > > Third, > and the most difficult, is a challenging of own awareness, > a careful questioning and, if necessary, rebuilding of the " old " > equipment - the alert attention to new possibilities > > What is common for all three journeys, - > we don't use our thoughts with their linear capabilities to get in > You shouldn't try to grasp it or to detect it, just be > > There is an infinite > multi-multi-multi-multidimensional and > multi-multi-multi-multifaceted > spinning in any possible and impossible ways chaotic disorder > with its infinite immeasurable possibilities > > We don't show up there with our language > like in the discussion club with the ideas > " Guys I love you, > let's be friends, > I just want to be the silent observer " ... and so on ... > Just smile and be > > Love to all, > > Leo > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Yes Dan, because the witness is the separation of yourself as the " one " . You are ready!!! Nirgunanada - dan330033 Nisargadatta Friday, January 28, 2005 1:14 PM Re: The roads/approaches for/of/to the awareness Nisargadatta , " Nirgunananda " <nirgunananda@t...> wrote: > I believe that the principal way is: to sse the things like the things are. To see like the witness only. To sse the things like the things are, is really do not anything. > > Nirgunananda Beyond being the witness, there is clear knowing of/as nonseparation. -- Dan ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 That, wich do something is not the Self is the mind, then who does something or does not do something is the mind. - anders_lindman Nisargadatta Friday, January 28, 2005 2:12 PM Re: The roads/approaches for/of/to the awareness Nisargadatta , " Nirgunananda " <nirgunananda@t...> wrote: > I believe that the principal way is: to sse the things like the things are. To see like the witness only. To sse the things like the things are, is really do not anything. Not doing anything can be a subtle trap that keeps us in bondage. Who is the one doing nothing? True liberation comes with the total cessation of inner conflict. /AL > > Nirgunananda > - > leorozum > Nisargadatta > Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:14 AM > The roads/approaches for/of/to the awareness > > > > > Hi friends, > > Could there be some misuse in the traditional applying of > the word " enlightenment " ? > Isn't it just the skill to see the approaching subject > in all its nakedness > without any discrimination, prejudgment, opinion and cliché? > > So, what is behind of the traditional commotion? - > > Pretty useful thing - the clarifying conducts of own awareness - > > And I see here the tree major approaches, > which depend on the chosen direction - > > First, > In Hindu tradition - it's a journey inward, > diving within your own awareness into the cell's level, > molecular level, and may be even farther, - > tracing own roots to the level of pure energy and consciousness > > Second - > it's the journey outward, when you try to comprehend > the supture on own level and farther and farther ... > imagine to observe the aliens of unknown nature > > Third, > and the most difficult, is a challenging of own awareness, > a careful questioning and, if necessary, rebuilding of the " old " > equipment - the alert attention to new possibilities > > What is common for all three journeys, - > we don't use our thoughts with their linear capabilities to get in > You shouldn't try to grasp it or to detect it, just be > > There is an infinite > multi-multi-multi-multidimensional and > multi-multi-multi-multifaceted > spinning in any possible and impossible ways chaotic disorder > with its infinite immeasurable possibilities > > We don't show up there with our language > like in the discussion club with the ideas > " Guys I love you, > let's be friends, > I just want to be the silent observer " ... and so on ... > Just smile and be > > Love to all, > > Leo > > > > > > > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Nirgunananda " <nirgunananda@t...> wrote: > That, wich do something is not the Self is the mind, then who does something or does not do something is the mind. We are the mind too! > - > anders_lindman > Nisargadatta > Friday, January 28, 2005 2:12 PM > Re: The roads/approaches for/of/to the awareness > > > > Nisargadatta , " Nirgunananda " > <nirgunananda@t...> wrote: > > I believe that the principal way is: to sse the things like the > things are. To see like the witness only. To sse the things like the > things are, is really do not anything. > > Not doing anything can be a subtle trap that keeps us in bondage. Who > is the one doing nothing? True liberation comes with the total > cessation of inner conflict. > > /AL > > > > > Nirgunananda > > - > > leorozum > > Nisargadatta > > Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:14 AM > > The roads/approaches for/of/to the awareness > > > > > > > > > > Hi friends, > > > > Could there be some misuse in the traditional applying of > > the word " enlightenment " ? > > Isn't it just the skill to see the approaching subject > > in all its nakedness > > without any discrimination, prejudgment, opinion and cliché? > > > > So, what is behind of the traditional commotion? - > > > > Pretty useful thing - the clarifying conducts of own awareness - > > > > And I see here the tree major approaches, > > which depend on the chosen direction - > > > > First, > > In Hindu tradition - it's a journey inward, > > diving within your own awareness into the cell's level, > > molecular level, and may be even farther, - > > tracing own roots to the level of pure energy and consciousness > > > > Second - > > it's the journey outward, when you try to comprehend > > the supture on own level and farther and farther ... > > imagine to observe the aliens of unknown nature > > > > Third, > > and the most difficult, is a challenging of own awareness, > > a careful questioning and, if necessary, rebuilding of the " old " > > equipment - the alert attention to new possibilities > > > > What is common for all three journeys, - > > we don't use our thoughts with their linear capabilities to get in > > You shouldn't try to grasp it or to detect it, just be > > > > There is an infinite > > multi-multi-multi-multidimensional and > > multi-multi-multi-multifaceted > > spinning in any possible and impossible ways chaotic disorder > > with its infinite immeasurable possibilities > > > > We don't show up there with our language > > like in the discussion club with the ideas > > " Guys I love you, > > let's be friends, > > I just want to be the silent observer " ... and so on ... > > Just smile and be > > > > Love to all, > > > > Leo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ** > > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the > Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Nirgunananda " > <nirgunananda@t...> wrote: > > I believe that the principal way is: to sse the things like the > things are. To see like the witness only. To sse the things like the > things are, is really do not anything. > > Not doing anything can be a subtle trap that keeps us in bondage. Who > is the one doing nothing? True liberation comes with the total > cessation of inner conflict. > > /AL Or it can be just what's happening. Doing nothing to me doesn't have anything to do with one is doing per se, but rather it's a spontaneous release of concern with what's occurring now. This understanding can come about when one understands the conflict or imaginary distance between what's happening and what I think should be happening... what I think I should be doing. When this conflict is clearly understood as stress, it may dissipate, just leaving what's happening as what's happening. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " josesiem " <josesiem> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Nirgunananda " > > <nirgunananda@t...> wrote: > > > I believe that the principal way is: to sse the things like the > > things are. To see like the witness only. To sse the things like the > > things are, is really do not anything. > > > > Not doing anything can be a subtle trap that keeps us in bondage. > Who > > is the one doing nothing? True liberation comes with the total > > cessation of inner conflict. > > > > /AL > > Or it can be just what's happening. Doing nothing to me doesn't have > anything to do with one is doing per se, but rather it's a > spontaneous release of concern with what's occurring now. This > understanding can come about when one understands the conflict or > imaginary distance between what's happening and what I think should > be happening... what I think I should be doing. When this conflict is > clearly understood as stress, it may dissipate, just leaving what's > happening as what's happening. > > Joe That can probably lead to cessation of inner conflict. But the idea of something and the real happening of peace _in_every_situation_ are two different kinds of experience. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " josesiem " <josesiem> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Nirgunananda " > > > <nirgunananda@t...> wrote: > > > > I believe that the principal way is: to sse the things like the > > > things are. To see like the witness only. To sse the things like the > > > things are, is really do not anything. > > > > > > Not doing anything can be a subtle trap that keeps us in bondage. > > Who > > > is the one doing nothing? True liberation comes with the total > > > cessation of inner conflict. > > > > > > /AL > > > > Or it can be just what's happening. Doing nothing to me doesn't have > > anything to do with one is doing per se, but rather it's a > > spontaneous release of concern with what's occurring now. This > > understanding can come about when one understands the conflict or > > imaginary distance between what's happening and what I think should > > be happening... what I think I should be doing. When this conflict is > > clearly understood as stress, it may dissipate, just leaving what's > > happening as what's happening. > > > > Joe > > That can probably lead to cessation of inner conflict. But the idea of > something and the real happening of peace _in_every_situation_ are two > different kinds of experience. > > /AL Ahh, it sounds like you want peace in every situation? Is this true? I have a few wonderful prescriptions for you if so! Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Nirgunananda " <nirgunananda@t...> wrote: > Yes Dan, because the witness is the separation of yourself as the " one " . > > You are ready!!! > > Nirgunanada Now you remind me of a song by Muddy Waters: " I'm ready, ready's anybody can be. I'm ready for you, hope you're ready for me. " -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " josesiem " <josesiem> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " josesiem " <josesiem> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Nirgunananda " > > > > <nirgunananda@t...> wrote: > > > > > I believe that the principal way is: to sse the things like > the > > > > things are. To see like the witness only. To sse the things > like the > > > > things are, is really do not anything. > > > > > > > > Not doing anything can be a subtle trap that keeps us in > bondage. > > > Who > > > > is the one doing nothing? True liberation comes with the total > > > > cessation of inner conflict. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > Or it can be just what's happening. Doing nothing to me doesn't > have > > > anything to do with one is doing per se, but rather it's a > > > spontaneous release of concern with what's occurring now. This > > > understanding can come about when one understands the conflict or > > > imaginary distance between what's happening and what I think > should > > > be happening... what I think I should be doing. When this > conflict is > > > clearly understood as stress, it may dissipate, just leaving > what's > > > happening as what's happening. > > > > > > Joe > > > > That can probably lead to cessation of inner conflict. But the idea > of > > something and the real happening of peace _in_every_situation_ are > two > > different kinds of experience. > > > > /AL > > Ahh, it sounds like you want peace in every situation? Is this true? > I have a few wonderful prescriptions for you if so! > > Joe " ...are you someone who is relaxed in every situation.......or are you what is commonly knowns as a nervous wreck?.....yes....or...no.......I am a nervous wreck....yes....or....no..................if you tell the truth........if you are capable of telling the truth..... " -- Vernon Howard Are _you_ relaxed in every situation? /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " josesiem " <josesiem> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " josesiem " <josesiem> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Nirgunananda " > > > > > <nirgunananda@t...> wrote: > > > > > > I believe that the principal way is: to sse the things like > > the > > > > > things are. To see like the witness only. To sse the things > > like the > > > > > things are, is really do not anything. > > > > > > > > > > Not doing anything can be a subtle trap that keeps us in > > bondage. > > > > Who > > > > > is the one doing nothing? True liberation comes with the total > > > > > cessation of inner conflict. > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > Or it can be just what's happening. Doing nothing to me doesn't > > have > > > > anything to do with one is doing per se, but rather it's a > > > > spontaneous release of concern with what's occurring now. This > > > > understanding can come about when one understands the conflict or > > > > imaginary distance between what's happening and what I think > > should > > > > be happening... what I think I should be doing. When this > > conflict is > > > > clearly understood as stress, it may dissipate, just leaving > > what's > > > > happening as what's happening. > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > That can probably lead to cessation of inner conflict. But the idea > > of > > > something and the real happening of peace _in_every_situation_ are > > two > > > different kinds of experience. > > > > > > /AL > > > > Ahh, it sounds like you want peace in every situation? Is this true? > > I have a few wonderful prescriptions for you if so! > > > > Joe > > " ...are you someone who is relaxed in every situation.......or are you > what is commonly knowns as a nervous wreck?.....yes....or...no.......I > am a nervous wreck....yes....or....no..................if you tell the > truth........if you are capable of telling the truth..... " -- Vernon > Howard > > Are _you_ relaxed in every situation? > > /AL Nope. Is that a problem? Is it true that one should be relaxed in every situation? Where did you pick up this ideal from? Or is this now exactly as it's happening the undeniable truth? What's more true.. this now, with its fear and confusion...or my idea of what this now should be? Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2005 Report Share Posted January 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " josesiem " <josesiem> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " josesiem " <josesiem> > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " josesiem " <josesiem> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Nirgunananda " > > > > > > <nirgunananda@t...> wrote: > > > > > > > I believe that the principal way is: to sse the things > like > > > the > > > > > > things are. To see like the witness only. To sse the things > > > like the > > > > > > things are, is really do not anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not doing anything can be a subtle trap that keeps us in > > > bondage. > > > > > Who > > > > > > is the one doing nothing? True liberation comes with the > total > > > > > > cessation of inner conflict. > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > Or it can be just what's happening. Doing nothing to me > doesn't > > > have > > > > > anything to do with one is doing per se, but rather it's a > > > > > spontaneous release of concern with what's occurring now. > This > > > > > understanding can come about when one understands the > conflict or > > > > > imaginary distance between what's happening and what I think > > > should > > > > > be happening... what I think I should be doing. When this > > > conflict is > > > > > clearly understood as stress, it may dissipate, just leaving > > > what's > > > > > happening as what's happening. > > > > > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > That can probably lead to cessation of inner conflict. But the > idea > > > of > > > > something and the real happening of peace _in_every_situation_ > are > > > two > > > > different kinds of experience. > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > Ahh, it sounds like you want peace in every situation? Is this > true? > > > I have a few wonderful prescriptions for you if so! > > > > > > Joe > > > > " ...are you someone who is relaxed in every situation.......or are > you > > what is commonly knowns as a nervous > wreck?.....yes....or...no.......I > > am a nervous wreck....yes....or....no..................if you tell > the > > truth........if you are capable of telling the truth..... " -- Vernon > > Howard > > > > Are _you_ relaxed in every situation? > > > > /AL > > Nope. Is that a problem? Is it true that one should be relaxed in > every situation? Where did you pick up this ideal from? > > Or is this now exactly as it's happening the undeniable truth? What's > more true.. this now, with its fear and confusion...or my idea of > what this now should be? > > Joe The simple recognition of feeling good or being in a state of suffering needs no judgement, no comparison. Suffering is _the_ human problem. What other problem is there? /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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