Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 >>debate ... I don't engage in debate just for the shake of it. I usually engage in debate, either in an effort to ------------ neutralize a person, who is affecting people's view in a `negative' way, ...in my view or who is preventing a genuine, honest, open and sincere communicating from happening. ------------ Challenge some strong `belief' or `teaching' that might be detrimental in my view. ------------ Challenge someone to reconsider and reexamine his belief and knowledge, if I find a sincere and reasonably intelligent person stuck with strong ....what I consider limiting and negative belief. ------------- Present what I consider a fairly useful and sincere view such as ...Ramana is one of the Truest and Best teachers. Reading too many teachers can be sometimes more harmful than useful. And, many Very FAMOUS and quite Popular teachers in fact, ...have uttered some very Deluded things that can harm someone if taken literally! ------------ Defend my membership and privilege to present myself. ------------ Say, what you have found to be true of false rather than making Final Definitive statements. For example, say, ...you don't know if No-thought exists as you have always had one or other thought, rather than saying, ...there is No No-thought. There is always a thought and No-thought is baloney. With warm regards, ac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming> wrote: > > >>debate ... > > I don't engage in debate just for the shake of it. > > I usually engage in debate, either in an effort to > > ------------ neutralize a person, who is affecting people's view in > a `negative' way, ...in my view or who is preventing a genuine, > honest, open and sincere communicating from happening. > > ------------ Challenge some strong `belief' or `teaching' that might > be detrimental in my view. > > ------------ Challenge someone to reconsider and reexamine his belief > and knowledge, if I find a sincere and reasonably intelligent person > stuck with strong ....what I consider limiting and negative belief. > > ------------- Present what I consider a fairly useful and sincere > view such as ...Ramana is one of the Truest and Best teachers. > Reading too many teachers can be sometimes more harmful than useful. > > And, many Very FAMOUS and quite Popular teachers in fact, ...have > uttered some very Deluded things that can harm someone if taken > literally! > > > ------------ Defend my membership and privilege to present myself. > > > ------------ Say, what you have found to be true of false rather than > making Final Definitive statements. For example, say, ...you don't > know if No-thought exists as you have always had one or other thought, > > rather than saying, ...there is No No-thought. There is always a > thought and No-thought is baloney. > > > > With warm regards, > ac. Everything that you think you do above is no different then the actions of other religious zealots. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > >>debate ... > > > > I don't engage in debate just for the shake of it. > > > > I usually engage in debate, either in an effort to > > > > ------------ neutralize a person, who is affecting people's view in > > a `negative' way, ...in my view or who is preventing a genuine, > > honest, open and sincere communicating from happening. > > > > ------------ Challenge some strong `belief' or `teaching' that might > > be detrimental in my view. > > > > ------------ Challenge someone to reconsider and reexamine his belief > > and knowledge, if I find a sincere and reasonably intelligent person > > stuck with strong ....what I consider limiting and negative belief. > > > > ------------- Present what I consider a fairly useful and sincere > > view such as ...Ramana is one of the Truest and Best teachers. > > Reading too many teachers can be sometimes more harmful than useful. > > > > And, many Very FAMOUS and quite Popular teachers in fact, ...have > > uttered some very Deluded things that can harm someone if taken > > literally! > > > > > > ------------ Defend my membership and privilege to present myself. > > > > > > ------------ Say, what you have found to be true of false rather than > > making Final Definitive statements. For example, say, ...you don't > > know if No-thought exists as you have always had one or other thought, > > > > rather than saying, ...there is No No-thought. There is always a > > thought and No-thought is baloney. > > > > > > > > With warm regards, > > ac. > > > > Everything that you think you do above is no different then the actions of other religious zealots. > > > > toombaru Now, be nice, Toomy. I appreciated AC's sincerety. What I find interesting is that most of us do what he wrote above in one way or another. It's like we engage the world with ideas about how the world should be, how others should be. We can talk a lot of 'things as they are'... but then there's that reflexive habit to form the 'as is' into my own image... correct people's " mistaken views " etc. I find my own views about 'what should be' softening more and more. I have less definitive ideas about how the world should be and others. I feel less inclined to have a message for the world or to change anybody or anything. Yet even that 'desire to change others' is part of the it all! Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Nisargadatta , " josesiem " <josesiem> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > > > >>debate ... > > > > > > I don't engage in debate just for the shake of it. > > > > > > I usually engage in debate, either in an effort to > > > > > > ------------ neutralize a person, who is affecting people's view > in > > > a `negative' way, ...in my view or who is preventing a genuine, > > > honest, open and sincere communicating from happening. > > > > > > ------------ Challenge some strong `belief' or `teaching' that > might > > > be detrimental in my view. > > > > > > ------------ Challenge someone to reconsider and reexamine his > belief > > > and knowledge, if I find a sincere and reasonably intelligent > person > > > stuck with strong ....what I consider limiting and negative > belief. > > > > > > ------------- Present what I consider a fairly useful and sincere > > > view such as ...Ramana is one of the Truest and Best teachers. > > > Reading too many teachers can be sometimes more harmful than > useful. > > > > > > And, many Very FAMOUS and quite Popular teachers in fact, ...have > > > uttered some very Deluded things that can harm someone if taken > > > literally! > > > > > > > > > ------------ Defend my membership and privilege to present myself. > > > > > > > > > ------------ Say, what you have found to be true of false rather > than > > > making Final Definitive statements. For example, say, ...you > don't > > > know if No-thought exists as you have always had one or other > thought, > > > > > > rather than saying, ...there is No No-thought. There is always a > > > thought and No-thought is baloney. > > > > > > > > > > > > With warm regards, > > > ac. > > > > > > > > Everything that you think you do above is no different then the > actions of other religious zealots. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Now, be nice, Toomy. > > I appreciated AC's sincerety. > Islamic fundimentalists are sincere....Nazis are sincere......Those killing their neighbors in Africa.....are sincere. Sincerity....concerning any belief system...is delusional. > What I find interesting is that most of us do what he wrote above in > one way or another. Indeed. Mind is nothing other then solidified mis-conceptions. It's like we engage the world with ideas about > how the world should be, how others should be. > > We can talk a lot of 'things as they are'... but then there's that > reflexive habit to form the 'as is' into my own image... correct > people's " mistaken views " etc. > > I find my own views about 'what should be' softening more and more. As long as there is a perceived locus in which that occurs....all the sofening in world will not help... That which you are...includes everything you want to be. I > have less definitive ideas about how the world should be and others. > I feel less inclined to have a message for the world or to change > anybody or anything. Well......that sounds like just another message. > > Yet even that 'desire to change others' is part of the it all! > > Joe As long as there are " others " .......there will be a desire to change them. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 > > > Everything that you think you do above is no different then the actions of other religious zealots. Thank you, Toombaru ! There may not be great harm in being `any' zealot, It is being a ...BLIND `fanatic' that hurts, few very greatly crucial thing that vastly differentiate them form what I described above are: > ------------ neutralize a person, who is affecting people's view in a `negative' way, ...in my view or who is preventing a genuine, honest, open and sincere communicating from happening. They FAIL to say that it is `their' view. They try to `force' its as an ...UNIVERSAL TRUTH. > ------------ Challenge someone to reconsider and reexamine his belief and knowledge, if I find a sincere and reasonably intelligent person stuck with strong ....what I consider limiting and negative belief. They do NOT ask for re-consideration and re-examination! They try to force adoption of new belief ...without examination. They do NOT encourage `examination', they shun it and try to force adaptation. > ------------ Say, what you have found to be true of false rather than making Final Definitive statements. They do not say and qualify that ... " this is what, I have found true " . They Make Final Definitive statements about things. Next time, perhaps, ...you would consider reading and examining it before making a blanket comment. Perhaps, ... Perhaps, ... Perhaps, ... With warm regards, ac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > > > > > Everything that you think you do above is no different then the > actions of other religious zealots. > > > > Thank you, Toombaru ! > > There may not be great harm in being `any' zealot, > > It is being a ...BLIND `fanatic' that hurts, > few very greatly crucial thing that vastly > differentiate them form what I described above are: > > > > ------------ neutralize a person, who is affecting people's view > in a `negative' way, ...in my view or who is preventing a genuine, > honest, open and sincere communicating from happening. > > They FAIL to say that it is `their' view. They try to `force' its as > an ...UNIVERSAL TRUTH. > > > > ------------ Challenge someone to reconsider and reexamine his > belief and knowledge, if I find a sincere and reasonably intelligent > person stuck with strong ....what I consider limiting and negative > belief. > > They do NOT ask for re-consideration and re-examination! > > They try to force adoption of new belief ...without examination. > They do NOT encourage `examination', they shun it and try to force > adaptation. > > > > > ------------ Say, what you have found to be true of false rather > than making Final Definitive statements. > > > They do not say and qualify that ... " this is what, I have found > true " . They Make Final Definitive statements about things. You are speakiing of degrees within the illogic of all beliefs concernings things immaterial. The only difference....is that they are willing to kill.......you simply want to convert. > > > Next time, perhaps, ...you would consider reading and examining it > before making a blanket comment. > Every comment........is a blanket. > Perhaps, ... > Perhaps, ... > Perhaps, ... > > With warm regards, > ac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Dear Toombaru, Watching your thoughts, ........and, resulting in peace, calmness, stillness ! IS NOT a Belief !@ .. .... ...... ........boiling the water and *SEEING* the Vapor is ...NOT ...a matter of Belief !@ Dear Toombaru, Please spend little time and energy in finding out, when, " who " , " how " , " where " is talking of beliefs before making arbitrary, random comments on ...things, people, posts, messages ... It will help everybody, dear Toombaru. Please, please do that... I know, you might have lot of time ... You might only `using' the lists to pass time, to entertain yourself and to just randomly throw things. But, maybe, just maybe, ...there are some people who are Not doing ...Only that. Please, dear Toombaru, please `try' to ...Read and understand .... in addition to ...just, making comments. With warm regards, ac. ------ Nothing New Below ------- Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everything that you think you do above is no different then the > > actions of other religious zealots. > > > > > > > > Thank you, Toombaru ! > > > > There may not be great harm in being `any' zealot, > > > > It is being a ...BLIND `fanatic' that hurts, > > few very greatly crucial thing that vastly > > differentiate them form what I described above are: > > > > > > > ------------ neutralize a person, who is affecting people's view > > in a `negative' way, ...in my view or who is preventing a genuine, > > honest, open and sincere communicating from happening. > > > > They FAIL to say that it is `their' view. They try to `force' its as > > an ...UNIVERSAL TRUTH. > > > > > > > ------------ Challenge someone to reconsider and reexamine his > > belief and knowledge, if I find a sincere and reasonably intelligent > > person stuck with strong ....what I consider limiting and negative > > belief. > > > > They do NOT ask for re-consideration and re-examination! > > > > They try to force adoption of new belief ...without examination. > > They do NOT encourage `examination', they shun it and try to force > > adaptation. > > > > > > > > > ------------ Say, what you have found to be true of false rather > > than making Final Definitive statements. > > > > > > They do not say and qualify that ... " this is what, I have found > > true " . They Make Final Definitive statements about things. > > > You are speakiing of degrees within the illogic of all beliefs concernings things immaterial. > > The only difference....is that they are willing to kill.......you simply want to convert. > > > > > > > > > Next time, perhaps, ...you would consider reading and examining it > > before making a blanket comment. > Every comment........is a blanket. > > > > > > > Perhaps, ... > > Perhaps, ... > > Perhaps, ... > > > > With warm regards, > > ac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming> wrote: > > Dear Toombaru, > > Watching your thoughts, > > .......and, resulting in peace, calmness, stillness ! > > > IS NOT a Belief !@ > > . > ... > ..... > > .......boiling the water and *SEEING* the Vapor is ...NOT ...a matter > of Belief !@ > > > Dear Toombaru, > > Please spend little time and energy in finding out, > when, " who " , " how " , " where " is talking of beliefs before making > arbitrary, random comments on ...things, people, posts, messages ... You assume that there is a volitional entity here.......there is not. > > > It will help everybody, dear Toombaru. I don't care if anyone is helped. > > Please, please do that... > > I know, you might have lot of time ... > > You might only `using' the lists to pass time, to entertain yourself > and to just randomly throw things. > > But, maybe, just maybe, ...there are some people who are Not > doing ...Only that. > > Please, dear Toombaru, please `try' to ...Read and understand .... in > addition to ...just, making comments. Ok...I'll try that. Not. > > With warm regards, > ac. > > > ------ Nothing New Below ------- As below.....so above. toombaru > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Everything that you think you do above is no different then the > > > actions of other religious zealots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 adithya_comming wrote: > > > > > > > > Everything that you think you do above is no different then the > actions of other religious zealots. > > > > Thank you, Toombaru ! > > There may not be great harm in being `any' zealot, > > It is being a ...BLIND `fanatic' that hurts, > few very greatly crucial thing that vastly > differentiate them form what I described above are: > > > > ------------ neutralize a person, who is affecting people's view > in a `negative' way, ...in my view or who is preventing a genuine, > honest, open and sincere communicating from happening. > > They FAIL to say that it is `their' view. They try to `force' its as > an ...UNIVERSAL TRUTH. > > > > ------------ Challenge someone to reconsider and reexamine his > belief and knowledge, if I find a sincere and reasonably intelligent > person stuck with strong ....what I consider limiting and negative > belief. > > They do NOT ask for re-consideration and re-examination! > > They try to force adoption of new belief ...without examination. > They do NOT encourage `examination', they shun it and try to force > adaptation. > > > > > ------------ Say, what you have found to be true of false rather > than making Final Definitive statements. > > > They do not say and qualify that ... " this is what, I have found > true " . They Make Final Definitive statements about things. > > > Next time, perhaps, ...you would consider reading and examining it > before making a blanket comment. > > Perhaps, ... > Perhaps, ... > Perhaps, ... > > With warm regards, > ac. Do not mind Toom. He has read carefully what you said. But for Toom, in this moment, there is no doer, no person so what you speak about what you do is utter nonsense and his response is a lesson for you. Is he a blind fanatic? I do not know. Ask him if he is a blind fanatic fixated on something or other and see if it is so. Why assume it? Ask him why he says these things to discover the many appearances displayed and yours. Drink Toom over time, it is a healthy drink. Can you help what you do ac.? What you outlined above? Toom does as he is and we all drink him differently but I have found no no harm in his appearance. Maybe you do? Do you? Go to him, embrace him and you will learn much. If you take your goods with you and you cherish them, they will soon all disappear. As a dead person, this should not be difficult. Dead people can't hold on to anything being what they are. Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " adithya_comming " <adithya_comming> > wrote: > > > > Dear Toombaru, > > > > Watching your thoughts, > > > > .......and, resulting in peace, calmness, stillness ! > > > > > > IS NOT a Belief !@ > > > > . > > ... > > ..... > > > > .......boiling the water and *SEEING* the Vapor is ...NOT ...a matter > > of Belief !@ > > > > > > > > > Dear Toombaru, > > > > Please spend little time and energy in finding out, > > when, " who " , " how " , " where " is talking of beliefs before making > > arbitrary, random comments on ...things, people, posts, messages ... > > > I don't care if anyone is helped. Noted. > > Please, dear Toombaru, please `try' to ...Read and understand .... in addition to ...just, making comments. > Ok...I'll try that. > Not. Noted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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