Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Awareness happens on its own. Awareness is not a strategy. The me who wants to " do " awareness is a thought, the imagined subject of a thought like, " Am I doing it right? " This thought appears In awareness. This thought pretends that it refers to something real, that this something ( " me " ) possesses awareness. Actually, it is the other way around. Consciousness............speaking through Joan Tollifson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Awareness happens on its own. > > Awareness is not a strategy. > > The me who wants to " do " awareness is a thought, the imagined subject of a thought like, " Am I doing it right? " > > This thought appears In awareness. > > This thought pretends that it refers to something real, that this something ( " me " ) possesses awareness. > > Actually, it is the other way around. > > Consciousness............speaking through > > Joan Tollifson " I'm hungry and want to go home now. " Conciousness............... speaking through Joseph Siemion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 Nisargadatta , " josesiem " <josesiem> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Awareness happens on its own. > > > > Awareness is not a strategy. > > > > The me who wants to " do " awareness is a thought, the imagined > subject of a thought like, " Am I doing it right? " > > > > This thought appears In awareness. > > > > This thought pretends that it refers to something real, that this > something ( " me " ) possesses awareness. > > > > Actually, it is the other way around. > > > > > Consciousness............speaking through > > > > Joan Tollifson > > > > " I'm hungry and want to go home now. " > > Conciousness............... speaking through > > Joseph Siemion " I'm not home, not IAM, and not Consciousness " Nonconsciousness speaking through a glass, darkly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Nisargadatta , ombhurbhuva <ombhurbhuva@e...> wrote: > Hi Lewis and Anders, > Ordinary language tries to distinguish between awareness > and consciousness but the boundries are permeable. Raja Yoga with its > graded meditations starts with a gross object and ends with the objectless, > immaterial. In this view is of things, you become aware of something, you > notice something. They would reject as imprecise the expression 'he > recovered consciousness'. This allows them to accept consciousness in deep > sleep but not awareness. Awareness would be linked to 'vritti' or mental > modifications and the general shape of these vrittis would be determined by > the sort of sense modalities that the human has. These are a sub set of > what are sometimes called upadhis or forms of limitation. They are species > specific. The forms of limitation are forms of limitation (limiting > adjuncts) of Pure Consciousness and as that retain its nature of immediate > self consciousness. This nature is the key to the self-inquiry of the jnana > marg. > > Using an analogy of material identity, awareness is considered to be like > the bangles, bracelets, rings that are made out of the gold of > consciousness. Waves, billows, foam are all alike ocean/water etc. Usually > the distinction is marked by the contrast between (lower case)consciousness > and (upper case) Pure Consciousness. > > Lewis, as you know, there are those who reject the idea of Consciousness and > accept awareness. There are even those who covertly impugn awareness and > affect to puzzlement re self consciousness. The Tenth Man story may be > relevant here. Certainly it is an important juncture in the seeker's life > to hear from a wise bystander - That thou art. > > Michael Hi Michael, Maybe one could see it the other way around: awareness is the gold, and consciousness is that gold molded into forms? /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 --- ombhurbhuva <ombhurbhuva wrote: Hi Lewis and Anders, Michael: Ordinary language tries to distinguish between awareness and consciousness but the boundries are permeable. Raja Yoga with its graded meditations starts with a gross object and ends with the objectless, immaterial. In this view is of things, you become aware of something, you notice something. They would reject as imprecise the expression 'he recovered consciousness'. This allows them to accept consciousness in deep sleep but not awareness. Awareness would be linked to 'vritti' or mental modifications and the general shape of these vrittis would be determined by the sort of sense modalities that the human has. These are a sub set of what are sometimes called upadhis or forms of limitation. They are species specific. The forms of limitation are forms of limitation (limiting adjuncts) of Pure Consciousness and as that retain its nature of immediate self consciousness. This nature is the key to the self-inquiry of the jnana marg. Lewis: A restatement follows: Vritti are also considered to be thought waves produced by various mental functions in relation to mind substance (chitta) in Raja Yoga. Depending on what is focused on the vritti, appear as modifications of the mind stuff. A tree is focused on and the mind stuff through mental functions forms a tree, which appears. An upahdi has several meanings. Upadhi is a vehicle or base that is the mere appearance of unseen Reality or center of consciousness. The body, for example, would be an upadhi housing the Atman and veiling its appearance, acting as a limiting adjunct to/of it. It can also be seen in the way it is used above as superimposed attribute that veils and colors the view of any appearance experienced that lies under it, before it, above it, becoming the base of how the appearance appears. So a single appearance appears different to two observers engaging different upadhis and even more so for a third, who has no such upadhis. It is similar to a taken-for-granted reification in that both act as limiting adjunct, lens, instrument, to whatever is viewed through it. The upadhi or reification as superimpositions are removable. The removal reveals the appearances closer to what they are and diminishes identity and self-consciousness and reveals Pure Consciousness and Nirvana. Upadhi is found in both Hindusim and Buddhism. [upaadaana is a cognate term]. Awareness can be considered to be an upadhi in its relation to vritti, mental functions, and mind. Michael: Using an analogy of material identity, awareness is considered to be like the bangles, bracelets, rings that are made out of the gold of consciousness. Waves, billows, foam are all alike ocean/water etc. Usually the distinction is marked by the contrast between (lower case) consciousness and (upper case) Pure Consciousness. Lewis: Awareness can be considered to be an upadhi in its relation to vritti, mental functions, and mind, a lower consciousness, a " surface awareness. " Lewis, as you know, there are those who reject the idea of Consciousness and accept awareness. There are even those who covertly impugn awareness and affect to puzzlement re self consciousness. The Tenth Man story may be relevant here. Certainly it is an important juncture in the seeker's life to hear from a wise bystander - That thou art. Michael The Tenth Man An Advaita Vedanta Version. The story about the Swami and his disciples crossing a river. When arriving on the other shore, the Swami counted his disciples and it turned out that only nine persons had successfully crossed the river! He counted all his disciples over and over again, concluding: " There is one missing. We are only nine people, and it should be ten! " Then a stranger walked by. He overheard the conversation, and said to the Swami: " But there are actually ten persons. You have forgot to count yourself. You are that tenth person! " . From the uttering of these words, the Swami at once realized that he was the tenth person. Well, the words of the stranger gave the Swami direct knowledge about himself as the tenth man. He didn't have to put this knowledge into practice or anything. The very understanding came immediately by the words of the stranger. ShravaNa gave him perfect knowledge, because he was the tenth man from the very beginning. He did not become the tenth man. Another Version of the Tenth Man Story. The 'Tenth Man' Story by Wei Wu Wei You know the quaint story of the ten monks traveling together from one Master to another, in search of the enlightenment they had failed to obtain? Crossing a river in flood, they were separated by the swift current, and when they reached the other shore, they reassembled and one counted the others to make sure that all were safely across. Alas, he was only able to count nine brothers. Each in turn counted the others, and each could only count nine. As they were weeping and bewailing their drowned brother, a passing traveler on his way to the nearest town, asked what their trouble was and, having counted them, assured them that all ten were present. But each counted again, and the traveler being unable to persuade them, left them and went on this way. Let us continue the story: Then one monk went to the river-side in order to wash his tear-stained face. As he leant over a rock above a clear pool he started back and, rushing to his nine fellow-monks, he announced that he had found their poor drowned brother at the bottom of a pool. So each in turn went over to the rock in question and, leaning over, looked into the depths of the pool. When all had seen their poor drowned brother, whom, owing to the depth of the pool, they could not reach, they celebrated a funeral service in his memory. The passing traveler, returning from the town, asked them what they were doing and, when he was told, pointed out to them, and assured them, that since each had celebrated his own decease, and since all had celebrated the decease of each, one and all they were well and truly dead. On learning this each monk was instantly awakened, and ten fully enlightened monks returned to their monastery to the intense delight of their grandmotherly old Master. Note: The Tenth Man is the only man: there is no other. " Absolute absence is also absolute presence. But the absence of presence-and-absence is the inconceivable truth. " Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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