Guest guest Posted February 2, 2005 Report Share Posted February 2, 2005 In a message dated 2/2/05 1:20:57 PM, GuruRatings writes: > > Message: 12 > Wed, 02 Feb 2005 11:37:50 -0800 > Sarlo <sarlo > Meanwhile, back on the Ramesh channel > > Passing on some emails that are making the rounds . . . > > Mutribo, a sannyasin videographer based (formerly?) in Byron Bay who has > been hanging with Ramesh and made a number of videos for him has offered > his take on it, below, which is making the email rounds. Following his > account are a couple of letters from two people who take exception to his > exoneration of Ramesh. > > =========== > > I was not at the Seminar but have heard fairly detailed feedback. > Apparently a few women started talking to a very sweet Mexican guy called > Carlos at the Seminar and sharing how Ramesh had come on to them sexually > in the past and their discomfort with it. Carlos then respectfully > confronted Ramesh about it and on the last day of the Seminar Ramesh made a > statement. He said that he regretted any hurt that his actions may have > caused and said that truly there was no one to blame. He also said that it > would never happen again. > > My first reaction was " how great! " . A great many of the people who hang > around Ramesh have clearly not gone into their own insides and darkness in > the same way that many sannyasins did around Osho. It is very common for > women to want to project some kind of untaintable " purity " on the Guru and > then have to suffer a painful disillusion and " wake-up " when they are faced > with an imperfect body/mind...... with the Understanding. For me it was a > wake-up call for those who were living under such a misunderstanding and > who had clearly not listened to Ramesh and not fully understood what he > talks about. That said, I have known about this side of Ramesh for a while > and have spoken to women who have had that experience with Ramesh. In every > case that I know of the advances were very respectful and stopped as soon > as the woman expressed her own discomfort. I have also spoken to one woman > where the shock was very painful and I can totally empathise with those > feelings as well. > > If you listen to the Teaching, you will find that Ramesh's statement was > almost wholly consistent with what he has been saying for many, many years > and he has blatantly alluded in the past to sexual desire naturally arising > in the body/mind of a Sage. The only thing that I can find fault with is > him saying that it will not happen again. No one can say what will happen > again nor how a particular body/mind will respond in a particular set of > future circumstamces. I also heard that two pieces from recent writings > have him talking about how he was blessed in not being plagued by desire. > The latter is clearly not true. > > To sum up...... I think it's great all round! It's another wake-up call for > those who still prefer to project rather than see that any Guru is still an > ordinary human being. Ramesh too must face the consequences and fall-out > from his actions as we all have to do in daily life. > > And lastly it takes another needed broom to the dark closet of sexuality > that always hovers around spirituality and those cobwebs get shown the > light of day. It once again exposes the repressive sexual conditioning of > the Hindu culture and again shows that sex needs to be addressed clearly > and consciously. And all of this in no way negates the very real feelings > of shock and disappointment that some women have had to feel. I can happily > see most angles in this story and I find all of them refreshing and good. I > have no idea what the repercussions may be on Ramesh and his Teaching but > for me I never met him with expectations that would have caused me any > hurt. It is ! simply just as it is and it's fine. > > Ramesh is still, by far and away, the cleanest and most honest and > available Teacher that I have ever had the good luck to meet and I will > always feel grateful to that. You may know the story of Muktananda being > discovered with a young boy by one of his chief disciples. Ramesh tells it > often. On being confronted by the disciple's outrage, Muktananda is > reported to have responded, " You created the problem, now you solve it! " If > I had been Ramesh, I would have opened my statement with this often-told > story, expressed the regret for any hurt caused and insisted that no one is > to blame, as indeed Ramesh did, but I would not have said that it will > never happen again. I would also have made sure that any writing did not > contain things that events have proved to be dishonest. Then the Teaching > would have inevitably shone even brighter. > > I find I can play the devil's advocate to whatever opinion I see in front > of me and the story is currently very much doing the rounds here in Goa. I > have also delighted in taking a very sharp sword to the neck of those who > delight in seeing the mighty humbled by clearly pointing out what I have > described above. It's a win-win-win situation from my perspective. > > ================== > > Exception #1, from a devotee of Nisargadatta Maharaj . . . > > (Timothy Conway is a direct disciple of Nisargadatta Maharaj, and he wrote > the book 'Women of Power and Grace'. Here are his comments about Mutribo's > explanation of Ramesh Balsekar's behavior.) > > Mutribo's rationalizations are " nifty, " aren't they? Actually quite bizarre > and utterly ridiculous. > A few points: > > 1) Ramesh saying he " regrets " what happened doesn't cut it; this is neither > an authentic apology nor a proper " making amends " to those whom he targeted > with his advances. > > When Mutribo writes: > " [...] he has blatantly alluded in the past to sexual desire naturally > arising in the body/mind of a Sage... " > I say, yes, but a true sage does not ACT on it in a way that exploits > others. In other words, a sage is free from being pushed around by > samskaras. After all, what is a true sage but someone who is free from the > bound condition of being pushed and pulled by samskaras? Annamalai Swami > told me in 1980, when I asked him what enlightenment was like, " It's like > zero gravity... Nothing is pulling you anymore. " Nisargadatta, a true > " Maharaj, " would always ask his visitors who claimed any kind of > enlightenment, " What do you do with arising desires and fears? " He would > not have seen indulging them as any kind of enlightenment, that's for > certain. > > If Nisargadatta was still alive, I bet he'd be beating the crap out of > Ramesh and telling him not to presume to teach until he was fully cooked. > > When Mutribo further writes: > " To sum up...... I think it's great all round! It's another wake-up call > for those who still prefer to project rather than see that any Guru is > still an ordinary human being. ... I can happily see most angles in this > story and I find all of them refreshing and good. I have no idea what the > repercussions may be on Ramesh and his Teaching but for me I never met him > with expectations that would have caused me any hurt. It is simply just as > it is and it's fine. " > > I can only respond to this pseudo-Advaita drivel: what would this guy have > said had he come to the Nazi death camps in 1945? " I think it's great all > round! " ?? Advaita that does not take a stand for justice is no advaita at > all, but merely clever mind games. WAKE UP! > Feel free to share this with anyone on your list. > Timothy > > =========== > > Exception #2, from a devotee of Sri Ranjit and Papaji . . . > > Thanks for the forwarded letter from Mutribo. He was the one who did the > recently filmed series ' " LET LIFE FLOW' with Ramesh in 2003. > > I honestly feel that when you set yourself up as an Advaita Teacher, it > means that you live Advaita. Your permanent experience is that All is One. > When you manipulate, lie, cheat, abuse and profit from another, it means > you are well established in duality. When you know that there is no > 'other', who are you then going to manipulate and take advantage of? Ranjit > Maharaj explained this very well. 'How can nothing affect you?' For me, it > is clear that Ramesh is not living Advaita. He is a preacher deeply-rooted > in duality and who is trying to profit from the Advaita wave, but at the > same time he claims to be beyond all this. He is exploiting Advaita and is > mocking his master, Nisargadatta and also Ramana. I honestly cannot accept > this behaviour! That is why I cannot accept when Mutribo says, 'Ramesh is > still, by far and away, the cleanest and most honest and available Teacher > that I have ever had the good luck to meet and I will always feel grateful > to that.' Is he a fool or what? It seems that he has only met crooks, our > poor Mutribo. The quest for the Truth is not a joking, casual matter. (It > seems that Mutribo was probably bothered by all this and is now playing the > strong cowboy who pretends nothing can disturb his peace of mind. Keep > smiling and pretending you are strong and hopefully the problem will go > away) I can't believe that he has the nerve to say 'To sum up...... I think > it's great all round!' He doesn't realise what all of this really means. > But what can you expect to hear from a manipulated disciple who has studied > Ramesh's dualist, contradictory teaching! He says at the end 'It's a > win-win-win situation from my perspective', but in fact for many people who > trusted in Ramesh, for them its a lose-lose-lose situation. That is for > sure! Many are deeply shocked and are not speaking because of this. > > Ranjit and Papaji, two great masters that I had the fortune to meet : they > never once thought about taking advantage of anything or anyone. And I'm > sure that Ramana and Nisargadatta were the same. These four were definitely > living from the Absolute and were absorbed in the Truth of the Self. When > you compare their beingness with Ramesh's beingness, there is no comparison. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 > > > > Exception #1, from a devotee of Nisargadatta Maharaj . . . > > > > (Timothy Conway is a direct disciple of Nisargadatta Maharaj, and he wrote > > the book 'Women of Power and Grace'. Here are his comments about Mutribo's > > explanation of Ramesh Balsekar's behavior.) > > > > Mutribo's rationalizations are " nifty, " aren't they? Actually quite bizarre > > and utterly ridiculous. > > A few points: > > > > 1) Ramesh saying he " regrets " what happened doesn't cut it; this is neither > > an authentic apology nor a proper " making amends " to those whom he targeted > > with his advances. > For a sage to say that he regrets " his " actions......indicates that he believes that he had a choice in those actions.... Regret for....or pride in one's actions is food for the sleeping ones....not sages. > > > When Mutribo writes: > > " [...] he has blatantly alluded in the past to sexual desire naturally > > arising in the body/mind of a Sage... " > > I say, yes, but a true sage does not ACT on it in a way that exploits > > others. Bullshit. For the sage...there are no others In other words, a sage is free from being pushed around by > > samskaras. After all, what is a true sage but someone who is free from the > > bound condition of being pushed and pulled by samskaras? Annamalai Swami > > told me in 1980, when I asked him what enlightenment was like, " It's like > > zero gravity... Nothing is pulling you anymore. " Only because there is no one there to pull. Nisargadatta, a true > > " Maharaj, " would always ask his visitors who claimed any kind of > > enlightenment, " What do you do with arising desires and fears? " He would > > not have seen indulging them as any kind of enlightenment, that's for > > certain. I seriously doubt if a lot of women wanted to have sex with Nisargadatta......He was a stikey little cigarette smoking fellow. > > > > If Nisargadatta was still alive, I bet he'd be beating the crap out of > > Ramesh and telling him not to presume to teach until he was fully cooked. > > > > When Mutribo further writes: > > " To sum up...... I think it's great all round! It's another wake-up call > > for those who still prefer to project rather than see that any Guru is > > still an ordinary human being. ... I can happily see most angles in this > > story and I find all of them refreshing and good. I have no idea what the > > repercussions may be on Ramesh and his Teaching but for me I never met him > > with expectations that would have caused me any hurt. It is simply just as > > it is and it's fine. " > > > > I can only respond to this pseudo-Advaita drivel: what would this guy have > > said had he come to the Nazi death camps in 1945? " I think it's great all > > round! " ?? Advaita that does not take a stand for justice is no advaita at > > all, but merely clever mind games. WAKE UP! Advaita that takes a stand for or against anything ...is not advaita. > > Feel free to share this with anyone on your list. > > Timothy > > > > =========== > > > > Exception #2, from a devotee of Sri Ranjit and Papaji . . . > > > > Thanks for the forwarded letter from Mutribo. He was the one who did the > > recently filmed series ' " LET LIFE FLOW' with Ramesh in 2003. > > > > I honestly feel that when you set yourself up as an Advaita Teacher, it > > means that you live Advaita. Your permanent experience is that All is One. > > When you manipulate, lie, cheat, abuse and profit from another, it means > > you are well established in duality. When you know that there is no > > 'other', who are you then going to manipulate and take advantage of? Ranjit > > Maharaj explained this very well. 'How can nothing affect you?' For me, it > > is clear that Ramesh is not living Advaita. Everyone is living advaita. He is a preacher deeply-rooted > > in duality and who is trying to profit from the Advaita wave, but at the > > same time he claims to be beyond all this. He is exploiting Advaita and is > > mocking his master, Nisargadatta and also Ramana. I honestly cannot accept > > this behaviour! That is why I cannot accept when Mutribo says, 'Ramesh is > > still, by far and away, the cleanest and most honest and available Teacher > > that I have ever had the good luck to meet and I will always feel grateful > > to that.' Is he a fool or what? It seems that he has only met crooks, our > > poor Mutribo. The quest for the Truth is not a joking, casual matter. (It > > seems that Mutribo was probably bothered by all this and is now playing the > > strong cowboy who pretends nothing can disturb his peace of mind. Keep > > smiling and pretending you are strong and hopefully the problem will go > > away) I can't believe that he has the nerve to say 'To sum up...... I think > > it's great all round!' He doesn't realise what all of this really means. No one understands what anything means. > > But what can you expect to hear from a manipulated disciple who has studied > > Ramesh's dualist, contradictory teaching! He says at the end 'It's a > > win-win-win situation from my perspective', but in fact for many people who > > trusted in Ramesh, for them its a lose-lose-lose situation. That is for > > sure! Just the dream of loosing. Many are deeply shocked and are not speaking because of this. > > > > Ranjit and Papaji, two great masters that I had the fortune to meet : they > > never once thought about taking advantage of anything or anyone. You don't know that. And I'm > > sure that Ramana and Nisargadatta were the same. These four were definitely > > living from the Absolute and were absorbed in the Truth of the Self. When > > you compare their beingness with Ramesh's beingness, there is no comparison. > > > > You want your gods to be pure....your sages to be pristine........... WAKE UP! This is Life...blood and guts LIFE...Everything is only what it is. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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