Guest guest Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > Would you say that with all language, concepts, labels unsubstantiated, > that when reading or hearing language and concept or thinking, feeling, > experiencing and so forth, is there just a flux of sensations with > variable changes in it without changing the flux itself? Is that flux > of sensation describable, reachable, penetrable? Hey Lewis -- What do you think? Isn't that the case? Sure it's describable, just like I can describe my car as a green Beetle. > > Does the use of language and concept and labels in posting and in daily > life alter that flux of sensations? Does the flux of sensations ever > harden into something recognizable? Is hardening possible? What hardens? Or is it a word to describe an apparently real process? Does that process ever take place or is there simply a concept that gives the impression it takes place. Are you capable of being attached to > a view or assumption or a perspective being that way? J: I'm attached to many things. I am sad to sell my car! We can ask what's really happening when I say, " I am attached. " This is a question that interests me, because it brings me back to what's happening right now. What is the reality behind the utterance: I am attached. L: If so, what? J:A gain, the question is, is there attachment to a view right now? What is this view? We can talk of attachment to views, but it seems to me it's not really possible. If > not, how do carry out the day? Does thinking interfere with the flux of > sensations? Does anything disturb it or overturn it or impede it or > damage it? Can you escape or get rid of the flux of sensations? Can you > alter it? Do you depend on it? Do you cherish it? J: What's with all the questions? I think you know the answers. > > > > > > > > > Is it all a futility? > > > > It doesn't matter what it's called, does it? It is so, it happens. I > > can call it " futility " which arises with a sense of annoyance or > > disgust. I can call it " the ultimate pinnacle of a life well- lived " > > which may be accompanied by sensations of pleasure and happiness. > > > > In either case, nothing is substantiated. In Buddhist terms, one > > should go with the more skillful of means. > > > > Joe > > > > Any recommendations? J: It all depends what someone wants, doesn't it?! I can recommend watching " Meet the Fockers " but it won't do any good if you want to watch a Western. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " josesiem " <josesiem> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Lewis Burgess <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > > > > > Would you say that with all language, concepts, labels > unsubstantiated, > > that when reading or hearing language and concept or thinking, > feeling, > > experiencing and so forth, is there just a flux of sensations with > > variable changes in it without changing the flux itself? Is that > flux > > of sensation describable, reachable, penetrable? > > > Hey Lewis -- > > What do you think? Isn't that the case? Sure it's describable, just > like I can describe my car as a green Beetle. I would like to hear it described. Would you mind doing so? > > > > > > Does the use of language and concept and labels in posting and in > daily > > life alter that flux of sensations? Does the flux of sensations > ever > > harden into something recognizable? > > Is hardening possible? What hardens? Or is it a word to describe an > apparently real process? Does that process ever take place or is > there simply a concept that gives the impression it takes place. I do not know. > > > Are you capable of being attached to > > a view or assumption or a perspective being that way? > > J: I'm attached to many things. I am sad to sell my car! What kind of car is it (green beetle?) and how much are you selling it for? > > We can ask what's really happening when I say, " I am attached. " This > is a question that interests me, because it brings me back to what's > happening right now. What is the reality behind the utterance: I am > attached. I do not know. > > L: If so, what? > > J:A gain, the question is, is there attachment to a view right now? > What is this view? We can talk of attachment to views, but it seems > to me it's not really possible. They are available or not for you to do so. To type took assumptions, to respond and type the message took assumptions. To live takes assumptions. You can see them or you cannot. It seems not to matter or make a difference until there is something disturbing them, their position or their weight or however one can express such things and the sensations that emerge at the disturbance. If you can describe the flux of sensations then what difficulty would there be in this? > > If > > not, how do carry out the day? Does thinking interfere with the > flux of > > sensations? Does anything disturb it or overturn it or impede it or > > damage it? Can you escape or get rid of the flux of sensations? Can > you > > alter it? Do you depend on it? Do you cherish it? > > > J: What's with all the questions? I think you know the answers. I do not know answers as much as I experience them. I do not believe there are answers that are final to anything like there is a definitive answer to a question about us. This is intellectual knowledge about our doings and there is little interest in for its sake alone. There are all kinds of answers to questions posed to others and these may become experience and language for me and experience and knowledge of the other in some way and for the doings in the world. Freyja used a term to describe a particular type of experience, " canceling out, " and that describes well what I experience and though I have not the slighest idea of what her experience in this is directly, we are able to communicate our experiences with that and using other concepts and experiences in conversation and we can experience union in its way and the joy that brings. If the concept grows worn and tattered and useless for the purpose it is used for, it will be discarded by one or both of us as we learn new ways to convey how we do as we are. For us who like this sort of place, it seems useful. You responded to the call and made comments that were attractive and similar to others you made earlier in other places and so I asked you so many questions, curious about you and your experiences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is it all a futility? > > > > > > It doesn't matter what it's called, does it? It is so, it > happens. I > > > can call it " futility " which arises with a sense of annoyance or > > > disgust. I can call it " the ultimate pinnacle of a life well- > lived " > > > which may be accompanied by sensations of pleasure and happiness. > > > > > > In either case, nothing is substantiated. In Buddhist terms, one > > > should go with the more skillful of means. > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > Any recommendations? > > J: It all depends what someone wants, doesn't it?! I can recommend > watching " Meet the Fockers " but it won't do any good if you want to > watch a Western. > Joe Yes. It depends. No sense forcing something down or up someone is it? Remember when you asked me about where to stay in Korea asking for a recommendation? In return, I asked you for your whatevers so I could make a recommendation based on your depends, but alas, you never replied and I did not pursue you. Still going aren't you? Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Lewis Burgess " <lbb10@c...> wrote: > I would like to hear it described. Would you mind doing so? Just experiences, like everyone else. I guess I'm not interested in going to detail about them -- the typing now, the fans whirring, thoughts coming and going. > > Are you capable of being attached to > > > a view or assumption or a perspective being that way? > > > > J: I'm attached to many things. I am sad to sell my car! > > > What kind of car is it (green beetle?) and how much are you selling it > for? 1999 Beetle GL for $6200. Need to sell it before I leave Feb 21. > > > > J:A gain, the question is, is there attachment to a view right now? > > What is this view? We can talk of attachment to views, but it seems > > to me it's not really possible. > > They are available or not for you to do so. To type took assumptions, > to respond and type the message took assumptions. To live takes > assumptions. You can see them or you cannot. It seems not to matter or > make a difference until there is something disturbing them, their > position or their weight or however one can express such things and > the sensations that emerge at the disturbance. If you can describe the > flux of sensations then what difficulty would there be in this? Yes, everything we do takes assumptions, takes memory. > > > I do not know answers as much as I experience them. I do not believe > there are answers that are final to anything like there is a > definitive answer to a question about us. This is intellectual > knowledge about our doings and there is little interest in for its > sake alone. > > There are all kinds of answers to questions posed to others and these > may become experience and language for me and experience and knowledge > of the other in some way and for the doings in the world. Freyja used > a term to describe a particular type of experience, " canceling out, " > and that describes well what I experience and though I have not the > slighest idea of what her experience in this is directly, we are able > to communicate our experiences with that and using other concepts and > experiences in conversation and we can experience union in its way and > the joy that brings. If the concept grows worn and tattered and > useless for the purpose it is used for, it will be discarded by one or > both of us as we learn new ways to convey how we do as we are. For us > who like this sort of place, it seems useful. > > You responded to the call and made comments that were attractive and > similar to others you made earlier in other places and so I asked you > so many questions, curious about you and your experiences. I'd need a specific question to respond to. It's interesting how we like some descriptions more than others. When I hear something that I believe matches what I believe, then it seems attractive. I'm always confirming my own views. What happens when I really don't know or seek confirmation either way? Because I see every thought, every view leads to nothing, nowhere. However, when my views are confirmed, there is a sense of pleasure and security. Then I see this and the commentary must come to a stop. It's going nowhere, in circles, continually commenting on itself, ad infinitum. Just like it is now. > Remember when you asked me about where to stay in Korea asking for a > recommendation? In return, I asked you for your whatevers so I could > make a recommendation based on your depends, but alas, you never > replied and I did not pursue you. Still going aren't you? > > Lewis Yes, I'm going. I'll be in Daegu. The school I'm working for has an apartment and everything ready for me. Take care Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " josesiem " <josesiem> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Lewis Burgess " <lbb10@c...> > wrote: > > > I would like to hear it described. Would you mind doing so? > > Just experiences, like everyone else. I guess I'm not interested in > going to detail about them -- the typing now, the fans whirring, > thoughts coming and going. > > > > > Are you capable of being attached to > > > > a view or assumption or a perspective being that way? > > > > > > J: I'm attached to many things. I am sad to sell my car! > > > > > > What kind of car is it (green beetle?) and how much are you selling > it > > for? > > 1999 Beetle GL for $6200. Need to sell it before I leave Feb 21. > > > > > > > > J:A gain, the question is, is there attachment to a view right > now? > > > What is this view? We can talk of attachment to views, but it > seems > > > to me it's not really possible. > > > > They are available or not for you to do so. To type took > assumptions, > > to respond and type the message took assumptions. To live takes > > assumptions. You can see them or you cannot. It seems not to matter > or > > make a difference until there is something disturbing them, their > > position or their weight or however one can express such things and > > the sensations that emerge at the disturbance. If you can describe > the > > flux of sensations then what difficulty would there be in this? > > > Yes, everything we do takes assumptions, takes memory. > > > > > > > > I do not know answers as much as I experience them. I do not believe > > there are answers that are final to anything like there is a > > definitive answer to a question about us. This is intellectual > > knowledge about our doings and there is little interest in for its > > sake alone. > > > > There are all kinds of answers to questions posed to others and > these > > may become experience and language for me and experience and > knowledge > > of the other in some way and for the doings in the world. Freyja > used > > a term to describe a particular type of experience, " canceling out, " > > and that describes well what I experience and though I have not the > > slighest idea of what her experience in this is directly, we are > able > > to communicate our experiences with that and using other concepts > and > > experiences in conversation and we can experience union in its way > and > > the joy that brings. If the concept grows worn and tattered and > > useless for the purpose it is used for, it will be discarded by one > or > > both of us as we learn new ways to convey how we do as we are. For > us > > who like this sort of place, it seems useful. > > > > You responded to the call and made comments that were attractive and > > similar to others you made earlier in other places and so I asked > you > > so many questions, curious about you and your experiences. > > > I'd need a specific question to respond to. Pick one, any one will do since you have little time. > > It's interesting how we like some descriptions more than others. When > I hear something that I believe matches what I believe, then it seems > attractive. I'm always confirming my own views. In my case, it seems that every view has already been thunked by someone else and can be found in books and other materials or here in this place and I got hidden views that get dropped out when they pop up summoned by some experience. When, I discover old stuff in books and the like that is new to me I drink it, experience it and it becomes worn quickly old and drops out. Something is left of it in the assumption pile for living and I may notice it in interaction with others when stuff like that suddenly pops up and I am going what is this and it starts all over again? > > What happens when I really don't know or seek confirmation either > way? Because I see every thought, every view leads to nothing, > nowhere. Yes, they are harmless little critters that don't know where they are going. Someone has to to tell to do some work or whatever or they just move aimlessly around making trouble. >However, when my views are confirmed, there is a sense of > pleasure and security. If I experience a view confirmed, some set of ideas about this or that, it is usually below awareness and I am perplexed or curious about what it is and gradually or suddenly or in some way there is a moving about in it and it subsides with it being nothing particularly pleasant or unpleasant depending on how it moves and does, like your flux of sensations you spoke about before. We can chalk it up to Intra-species similarities, I suppose. When I experience experiences shared, imagined or real, I feel pleasant or joyful like when out with my friends over dinner with a big bottle of wine sharing the remains of the day and life and enjoying the sharing in all the ways that it is done with language, repartee, gestures, joking, touching, laughing and the like, much more than the remains that made it possible to do. You know whats I mean pardner? It happens. You seem to enjoy friends, Joe. > > Then I see this and the commentary must come to a stop. It's going > nowhere, in circles, continually commenting on itself, ad infinitum. > > Just like it is now. Well, perhaps we should put some corn chips or other stuff on the table. " If corn oil is made from corn, and vegetable oil is made from vegetables, what is baby oil made from? " :-O > > > Remember when you asked me about where to stay in Korea asking for a > > recommendation? In return, I asked you for your whatevers so I could > > make a recommendation based on your depends, but alas, you never > > replied and I did not pursue you. Still going aren't you? > > > > Lewis > > Yes, I'm going. I'll be in Daegu. The school I'm working for has an > apartment and everything ready for me. > > Take care > Joe Nice. Be well, Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Lewis Burgess " <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > When I experience experiences shared, imagined or real, I feel > pleasant or joyful like when out with my friends over dinner with a > big bottle of wine sharing the remains of the day and life and > enjoying the sharing in all the ways that it is done with language, > repartee, gestures, joking, touching, laughing and the like, much more > than the remains that made it possible to do. You know whats I mean > pardner? It happens. > > You seem to enjoy friends, Joe. Yes, very much. Simple pleasures in my old age. ;-) > > > > > > > Then I see this and the commentary must come to a stop. It's going > > nowhere, in circles, continually commenting on itself, ad infinitum. > > > > Just like it is now. > > > Well, perhaps we should put some corn chips or other stuff on the table. > > > " If corn oil is made from corn, and vegetable oil is made from > vegetables, what is baby oil made from? " :-O Ha -- I like that one. > > > > > > > Remember when you asked me about where to stay in Korea asking for a > > > recommendation? In return, I asked you for your whatevers so I could > > > make a recommendation based on your depends, but alas, you never > > > replied and I did not pursue you. Still going aren't you? > > > > > > Lewis > > > > Yes, I'm going. I'll be in Daegu. The school I'm working for has an > > apartment and everything ready for me. > > > > Take care > > Joe > > Nice. > > Be well, > > Lewis Thanks! You too - Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.