Guest guest Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Ramana has clearly been one of the BEST teachers I have ever read. One of his value lies in being totally Uncompromising, Totally Honest, truthful and Straight-forward. He spoke TRUTH in extremely clear, simple, straight and direct way. But, the best still is him being Completely free of any Compromise and any need to twist or manipulate the TRUTH in any way. Reading and understanding him well can be immensely valuable to anyone interested in knowing and understanding the TRUTH as well as in being able to find the DIRECT way to truth and abiding Peace and Happiness. Understanding him well becomes even more IMPORTANT in order to be able to navigate through spiritual Clutter created by many, many fake and half-baked as well as many totally confused and deluded teachers. Once you read and understand him well, it will you give you a new depth and perspective to be able to filter lot of scattered nonsense out. Following are some of extracts from his book. You can read much more by visiting one of the links at the end of this message or buying and reading one of his books available at Amazon, Barnes and Noble and many other book sellers. ================================== D: How shall I realize God? M: God is an unknown entity. Moreover He is external. Whereas, the Self is always with you and it is you. Why do you leave out what is intimate and go in for what is external? . D.: What is this Self again? M: The Self is known to everyone but not clearly. You always exist. The Be-ing is the Self. 'I am' is the name of God. Of all the definitions of God, none is indeed so well put as the Biblical statement " I AM THAT I AM " in EXODUS (Chap. 3). There ate other statements, such as Brahmaivaham, Aham Brahmasmi and Soham. But none is so direct as the name JEHOVAH = I AM The Absolute Being is what is - It is the Self. It is God. Knowing the Self, God is known. In fact God is none other than the Self. # D.: In my meditation a blank interposes; I see no figure. M: Of course not. D.: What about the blank? M: WHO SEES THE BLANK? YOU MUST BE THERE. There is consciousness witnessing the blank. D.: Does it mean that I must go deeper and deeper? U: Yes. THERE IS NO MOMENT WHEN YOU ARE NOT. # D.: But the answer does not come for the search inward. M: The enquirer is the answer and no other answer can come. What comes afresh cannot be true. What always is, is true. # D.: Bhagavan always speaks from the highest standpoint. Sri Bhagavan (with a smile): People would not understand the simple and bare truth - the truth of their every day, ever-present and eternal experience. That Truth is that of the Self. IS THERE ANYONE NOT AWARE OF THE SELF? They would not even like to hear it (the Self), whereas they are eager to know what lies beyond - heaven, hell, reincarnation. Because they love mystery and not the bare truth, religions pamper them - only to bring them round to the Self. ....... # M: If the way is external, directions are possible, but it lies within. Seek within. THE SELF IS ALWAYS REALIZED. Something not already realized might be sought afresh. But the Self is within your experience. D.: Yes. I realize myself. M: MYSELF. ARE THERE TWO - MY AND SELF? D.: I do not mean it. M: WHO IS IT THAT HAS OR HAS NOT REALIZED? ...... # Mr. B. C. Das asked why the mind cannot be turned inward in spite of repeated attempts. M: It is done by PRACTICE and dispassion and that SUCCEEDS ONLY GRADUALLY. The mind, having been so long a cow accustomed to graze stealthily on others' estates, is not easily confined to her stall. ...... # Realization is nothing to be gained afresh; it is already there. All that is necessary is to get rid of the thought " I have not realized " . # ......THERE IS ONLY ONE 'I' , ALL ALONG, BUT WHAT ARISES UP FROM TIME TO TIME IS THE MISTAKEN' I -THOUGHT'; whereas the intuitive 'I' , always remains Self-shining, i.e., even before it becomes manifest. .... # .....The feeling that I have not realised is the obstruction to realisation. IN FACT IT IS ALREADY REALISED; THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO BE REALISED. Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so far, it must take place hereafter. What is born will also die. ....... # M. ... If you STRENGTHEN the mind, that peace will continue for all time. Its duration is PROPORTIONAL to the strength of mind acquired by REPEATED practice. # A Gujerati gentleman said that he was concentrating on sound nada - and desired to know if the method was right. M: Meditation on nada is one of the several approved methods. ........ After it is felt the practice should not be made an end in itself. Nada is not the objective; THE SUBJECT SHOULD FIRMLY BE HELD; OTHERWISE A BLANK WILL RESULT. Though the subject is there even in the blank he would not be aware of the cessation of nada of different kinds. IN ORDER TO BE AWARE EVEN IN THAT BLANK ONE MUST REMEMBER HIS OWN SELF. ..... ============================================= Links: http://www.ajati.com/ramana2.htm http://www.terebess.hu/english/maharshi.html http://www.beezone.com/Ramana/Talks_with_.html and http://www.hermetic-philosophy.com/2.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , Adithya K <adithya_comming> wrote: > > Ramana has clearly been one of the BEST teachers I have ever read. What if he was a fake? Any smart person can fool other people, and a smart person believing his or her insanity to be the truth could make other people believe in their belief (a second-hand belief ;-) /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Adithya K <adithya_comming> > wrote: > > > > Ramana has clearly been one of the BEST teachers I have ever read. > > What if he was a fake? Any smart person can fool other people, and a > smart person believing his or her insanity to be the truth could make > other people believe in their belief (a second-hand belief ;-) > > /AL Ramana was ......perhaps....one of the most refined prisoners. ......whose bag contained the fewest words. ......all three of which referred to....and confirmed the supposed self. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , Adithya K <adithya_comming> wrote: > > Ramana has clearly been one of the BEST teachers I have ever read. > Odysseus: I love Ramana and he has guided me foor many, many years in my sadhana. Not physicaly but spiritually. One of the best for sure. > One of his value lies in being totally Uncompromising, Totally Honest, truthful and Straight-forward. He spoke TRUTH in extremely clear, simple, straight and direct way. But, the best still is him being Completely free of any Compromise and any need to twist or manipulate the TRUTH in any way. > > Reading and understanding him well can be immensely valuable to anyone interested in knowing and understanding the TRUTH as well as in being able to find the DIRECT way to truth and abiding Peace and Happiness. > > > Understanding him well becomes even more IMPORTANT in order to be able to navigate through spiritual Clutter created by many, many fake and half-baked as well as many totally confused and deluded teachers. > Odysseus: I love that expression; half baked. I think my dear friend Stefan said that too in one of his postings. Half baked teachers. > > Once you read and understand him well, it will you give you a new depth and perspective to be able to filter lot of scattered nonsense out. > > Following are some of extracts from his book. You can read much more by visiting one of the links at the end of this message or buying and reading one of his books available at Amazon, Barnes and Noble and many other book sellers. > > ================================== > > D: How shall I realize God? > > M: God is an unknown entity. Moreover He is external. Whereas, the Self is always with you and it is you. Why do you leave out what is intimate and go in for what is external? . > Odysseus: Realise yourself first, Realise the Self first because it is more near than God. ( Ramana is a wise man ) > D.: What is this Self again? > > M: The Self is known to everyone but not clearly. > > You always exist. The Be-ing is the Self. > > 'I am' is the name of God. > > Of all the definitions of God, none is indeed so well put as the Biblical statement " I AM THAT I AM " in EXODUS (Chap. 3). There ate other statements, such as Brahmaivaham, Aham Brahmasmi and Soham. But none is so direct as the name JEHOVAH = I AM The Absolute Being is what is - It is the Self. It is God. Knowing the Self, God is known. Odysseus: Jehova is the Self. We are in Jehova. He is us. We are not him. Sorry for you folks! You are not at the top of the mountain! > > In fact God is none other than the Self. > > Odysseus: Yes! > D.: In my meditation a blank interposes; I see no figure. > > M: Of course not. > > D.: What about the blank? > > M: WHO SEES THE BLANK? YOU MUST BE THERE. There is consciousness witnessing the blank. > > D.: Does it mean that I must go deeper and deeper? > > U: Yes. THERE IS NO MOMENT WHEN YOU ARE NOT. > > D.: But the answer does not come for the search inward. > > M: The enquirer is the answer and no other answer can come. > > What comes afresh cannot be true. What always is, is true. > > D.: Bhagavan always speaks from the highest standpoint. > > Sri Bhagavan (with a smile): People would not understand the simple and bare truth - the truth of their every day, ever-present and eternal experience. That Truth is that of the Self. Odysseus: Who is asking those questions??? Didn't he awake in a week of wonder!!?? talking to Ramana! > > IS THERE ANYONE NOT AWARE OF THE SELF? > > They would not even like to hear it (the Self), whereas they are eager to know what lies beyond - heaven, hell, reincarnation. Because they love mystery and not the bare truth, religions pamper them - only to bring them round to the Self. > >Odysseus: :0) > > # > > M: If the way is external, directions are possible, but it lies within. > > Seek within. THE SELF IS ALWAYS REALIZED. Something not already realized might be sought afresh. But the Self is within your experience. > > D.: Yes. I realize myself. > > M: MYSELF. ARE THERE TWO - MY AND SELF? > > D.: I do not mean it. > > M: WHO IS IT THAT HAS OR HAS NOT REALIZED? > > Odysseus: This is the who am I. and it cannot be solved in weeks. It took Osho several lives. and it took master Nis three years. abiding in the I am state. > > > Mr. B. C. Das asked why the mind cannot be turned inward in spite of repeated attempts. > > M: It is done by PRACTICE and dispassion and that SUCCEEDS ONLY GRADUALLY. > > The mind, having been so long a cow accustomed to graze stealthily on others' estates, is not easily confined to her stall. ...... > > # > > Realization is nothing to be gained afresh; it is already there. > > > All that is necessary is to get rid of the thought " I have not realized " . > Odysseus: Taken directly as a intellectual answers it is not true. What is meant here is the ignorance or the non acceptance of our real condition, is the problem. Getting rid of the idea here means to get rid of everythings that prevent you to realise your true nature. It is a hard work, a day to day struggle. A real suffering. It is easy to be stupid but difficult to be wise. The ones who say it is easy are 1-the ones who spent their life looking for wisdom or 2-the fakes who think they understand something because they red few books. > .....THERE IS ONLY ONE 'I' , ALL ALONG, BUT WHAT ARISES UP FROM TIME TO TIME IS THE MISTAKEN' I -THOUGHT'; whereas the intuitive 'I' , always remains Self-shining, i.e., even before it becomes manifest. .... > > Odysseus: said for teaching purposes. That includes levels etc. It is Ok! > > ....The feeling that I have not realised is the obstruction to realisation. > > IN FACT IT IS ALREADY REALISED; THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO BE REALISED. Odysseus: Beware to simply take those words intellectualy and say to yourself I have reached or realise. Don't play games. Search for the truth it is there, but only for the chosen ones. God's grace frees the student, you are in God you are not God! Sorry!! > > Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so far, it must take place hereafter. > > What is born will also die. > > ...... > M. ... If you STRENGTHEN the mind, that peace will continue for all time. Its duration is PROPORTIONAL to the strength of mind acquired by REPEATED practice. > >Odysseus: Not in sahaja Nirvikalpa samadhi as he experienced everyday. Here is for teaching purposes again. > > > A Gujerati gentleman said that he was concentrating on sound nada - and desired to know if the method was right. > > M: Meditation on nada is one of the several approved methods. > > ....... > > After it is felt the practice should not be made an end in itself. Nada is not the objective; THE SUBJECT SHOULD FIRMLY BE HELD; OTHERWISE A BLANK WILL RESULT. Though the subject is there even in the blank he would not be aware of the cessation of nada of different kinds. IN ORDER TO BE AWARE EVEN IN THAT BLANK ONE MUST REMEMBER HIS OWN SELF. ..... Odysseus: I bow to Ramana that has been an instrument of the Lord. And I bow to those rare few naive who still believe in God. Jehova = I am. It is written above from Ramana. Thanks to all, Odysseus, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > Thanks to all, > > Odysseus, So Odysseus, my dear, have there been alterations to the furnishings here since you last sailed in? Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Lewis Burgess " <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > Thanks to all, > > > > Odysseus, > > So Odysseus, my dear, have there been alterations to the furnishings > here since you last sailed in? > > Lewis ******************* What do you mean? Odysseus, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Lewis Burgess " <lbb10@c...> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > Thanks to all, > > > > > > Odysseus, > > > > So Odysseus, my dear, have there been alterations to the > furnishings > > here since you last sailed in? > > > > Lewis > ******************* > > What do you mean? > > Odysseus, The expression of concepts and experience. Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , Adithya K <adithya_comming> wrote: > > Ramana has clearly been one of the BEST teachers I have ever read. > Odysseus: I love Ramana and he has guided me foor many, many years in my sadhana. Not physicaly but spiritually. One of the best for sure. > One of his value lies in being totally Uncompromising, Totally Honest, truthful and Straight-forward. He spoke TRUTH in extremely clear, simple, straight and direct way. But, the best still is him being Completely free of any Compromise and any need to twist or manipulate the TRUTH in any way. > > Reading and understanding him well can be immensely valuable to anyone interested in knowing and understanding the TRUTH as well as in being able to find the DIRECT way to truth and abiding Peace and Happiness. > > > Understanding him well becomes even more IMPORTANT in order to be able to navigate through spiritual Clutter created by many, many fake and half-baked as well as many totally confused and deluded teachers. > Odysseus: I love that expression; half baked. I think my dear friend Stefan said that too in one of his postings. Half baked teachers. > > Once you read and understand him well, it will you give you a new depth and perspective to be able to filter lot of scattered nonsense out. > > Following are some of extracts from his book. You can read much more by visiting one of the links at the end of this message or buying and reading one of his books available at Amazon, Barnes and Noble and many other book sellers. > > ================================== > > D: How shall I realize God? > > M: God is an unknown entity. Moreover He is external. Whereas, the Self is always with you and it is you. Why do you leave out what is intimate and go in for what is external? . > Odysseus: Realise yourself first, Realise the Self first because it is more near than God. ( Ramana is a wise man ) > D.: What is this Self again? > > M: The Self is known to everyone but not clearly. > > You always exist. The Be-ing is the Self. > > 'I am' is the name of God. > > Of all the definitions of God, none is indeed so well put as the Biblical statement " I AM THAT I AM " in EXODUS (Chap. 3). There ate other statements, such as Brahmaivaham, Aham Brahmasmi and Soham. But none is so direct as the name JEHOVAH = I AM The Absolute Being is what is - It is the Self. It is God. Knowing the Self, God is known. Odysseus: Jehova is the Self. We are in Jehova. He is us. We are not him. Sorry for you folks! You are not at the top of the mountain! > > In fact God is none other than the Self. > > Odysseus: Yes! > D.: In my meditation a blank interposes; I see no figure. > > M: Of course not. > > D.: What about the blank? > > M: WHO SEES THE BLANK? YOU MUST BE THERE. There is consciousness witnessing the blank. > > D.: Does it mean that I must go deeper and deeper? > > U: Yes. THERE IS NO MOMENT WHEN YOU ARE NOT. > > D.: But the answer does not come for the search inward. > > M: The enquirer is the answer and no other answer can come. > > What comes afresh cannot be true. What always is, is true. > > D.: Bhagavan always speaks from the highest standpoint. > > Sri Bhagavan (with a smile): People would not understand the simple and bare truth - the truth of their every day, ever-present and eternal experience. That Truth is that of the Self. Odysseus: Who is asking those questions??? Didn't he awake in a week of wonder!!?? talking to Ramana! > > IS THERE ANYONE NOT AWARE OF THE SELF? > > They would not even like to hear it (the Self), whereas they are eager to know what lies beyond - heaven, hell, reincarnation. Because they love mystery and not the bare truth, religions pamper them - only to bring them round to the Self. > >Odysseus: :0) > > # > > M: If the way is external, directions are possible, but it lies within. > > Seek within. THE SELF IS ALWAYS REALIZED. Something not already realized might be sought afresh. But the Self is within your experience. > > D.: Yes. I realize myself. > > M: MYSELF. ARE THERE TWO - MY AND SELF? > > D.: I do not mean it. > > M: WHO IS IT THAT HAS OR HAS NOT REALIZED? > > Odysseus: This is the who am I. and it cannot be solved in weeks. It took Osho several lives. and it took master Nis three years. abiding in the I am state. > > > Mr. B. C. Das asked why the mind cannot be turned inward in spite of repeated attempts. > > M: It is done by PRACTICE and dispassion and that SUCCEEDS ONLY GRADUALLY. > > The mind, having been so long a cow accustomed to graze stealthily on others' estates, is not easily confined to her stall. ...... > > # > > Realization is nothing to be gained afresh; it is already there. > > > All that is necessary is to get rid of the thought " I have not realized " . > Odysseus: Taken directly as a intellectual answers it is not true. What is meant here is the ignorance or the non acceptance of our real condition, is the problem. Getting rid of the idea here means to get rid of everythings that prevent you to realise your true nature. It is a hard work, a day to day struggle. A real suffering. It is easy to be stupid but difficult to be wise. The ones who say it is easy are 1-the ones who spent their life looking for wisdom or 2-the fakes who think they understand something because they red few books. > .....THERE IS ONLY ONE 'I' , ALL ALONG, BUT WHAT ARISES UP FROM TIME TO TIME IS THE MISTAKEN' I -THOUGHT'; whereas the intuitive 'I' , always remains Self-shining, i.e., even before it becomes manifest. .... > > Odysseus: said for teaching purposes. That includes levels etc. It is Ok! > > ....The feeling that I have not realised is the obstruction to realisation. > > IN FACT IT IS ALREADY REALISED; THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO BE REALISED. Odysseus: Beware to simply take those words intellectualy and say to yourself I have reached or realise. Don't play games. Search for the truth it is there, but only for the chosen ones. God's grace frees the student, you are in God you are not God! Sorry!! > > Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so far, it must take place hereafter. > > What is born will also die. > > ...... > M. ... If you STRENGTHEN the mind, that peace will continue for all time. Its duration is PROPORTIONAL to the strength of mind acquired by REPEATED practice. > >Odysseus: Not in sahaja Nirvikalpa samadhi as he experienced everyday. Here is for teaching purposes again. > > > A Gujerati gentleman said that he was concentrating on sound nada - and desired to know if the method was right. > > M: Meditation on nada is one of the several approved methods. > > ....... > > After it is felt the practice should not be made an end in itself. Nada is not the objective; THE SUBJECT SHOULD FIRMLY BE HELD; OTHERWISE A BLANK WILL RESULT. Though the subject is there even in the blank he would not be aware of the cessation of nada of different kinds. IN ORDER TO BE AWARE EVEN IN THAT BLANK ONE MUST REMEMBER HIS OWN SELF. ..... Odysseus: I bow to Ramana that has been an instrument of the Lord. And I bow to those rare few naive who still believe in God. Jehova = I am. It is written above from Ramana. Thanks to all, Odysseus, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > Thanks to all, > > Odysseus, So Odysseus, my dear, have there been alterations to the furnishings here since you last sailed in? Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Lewis Burgess " <lbb10@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > Thanks to all, > > > > Odysseus, > > So Odysseus, my dear, have there been alterations to the furnishings > here since you last sailed in? > > Lewis ******************* What do you mean? Odysseus, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Lewis Burgess " <lbb10@c...> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > Thanks to all, > > > > > > Odysseus, > > > > So Odysseus, my dear, have there been alterations to the > furnishings > > here since you last sailed in? > > > > Lewis > ******************* > > What do you mean? > > Odysseus, The expression of concepts and experience. Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Adithya K > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > Ramana has clearly been one of the BEST teachers I have ever >read. > > One of his value lies in being totally Uncompromising, Totally > Honest, truthful and Straight-forward. He spoke TRUTH in extremely > clear, simple, straight and direct way. But, the best still is him > being Completely free of any Compromise and any need to twist or > manipulate the TRUTH in any way. > > > > > > > Understanding him well becomes even more IMPORTANT in order to >be able to navigate through spiritual Clutter created by many, >many fake and half-baked as well as many totally confused and >deluded teachers. > > > Odysseus: I love that expression; half baked. I think my dear > friend Stefan said that too in one of his postings. Half baked > teachers. > > > > Once you read and understand him well, it will you give you a >new depth and perspective to be able to filter lot of scattered >nonsense out. >> > > >>D: How shall I realize God? > > > > M: God is an unknown entity. Moreover He is external. Whereas, >the Self is always with you and it is you. Why do you leave out >what is intimate and go in for what is external? . > > > > Odysseus: Realise yourself first, Realise the Self first because >it is more near than God. ( Ramana is a wise man ) > > > D.: What is this Self again? > > > > M: The Self is known to everyone but not clearly. > > > > You always exist. The Be-ing is the Self. > > > > 'I am' is the name of God. > > > > Of all the definitions of God, none is indeed so well put as the > Biblical statement " I AM THAT I AM " in EXODUS (Chap. 3). There ate > other statements, such as Brahmaivaham, Aham Brahmasmi and Soham. > But none is so direct as the name JEHOVAH = I AM The Absolute >Being is what is - It is the Self. It is God. Knowing the Self, God >is known. > > Odysseus: Jehova is the Self. We are in Jehova. He is us. We are >not him. Sorry for you folks! You are not at the top of the mountain! > > > > In fact God is none other than the Self. > > > > Odysseus: Yes! > > > D.: In my meditation a blank interposes; I see no figure. > > > > M: Of course not. > > > > D.: What about the blank? > > > > M: WHO SEES THE BLANK? YOU MUST BE THERE. There is consciousness > witnessing the blank. > > > > D.: Does it mean that I must go deeper and deeper? > > > > U: Yes. THERE IS NO MOMENT WHEN YOU ARE NOT. > > > > D.: But the answer does not come for the search inward. > > > > M: The enquirer is the answer and no other answer can come. > > > > What comes afresh cannot be true. What always is, is true. > > > > D.: Bhagavan always speaks from the highest standpoint. > > > > Sri Bhagavan (with a smile): People would not understand the > simple and bare truth - the truth of their every day, ever-present > and eternal experience. That Truth is that of the Self. > > Odysseus: Who is asking those questions??? Didn't he awake in a >week of wonder!!?? talking to Ramana! > > > > > IS THERE ANYONE NOT AWARE OF THE SELF? > > > > They would not even like to hear it (the Self), whereas they are > eager to know what lies beyond - heaven, hell, reincarnation. > Because they love mystery and not the bare truth, religions pamper > them - only to bring them round to the Self. > > > >Odysseus: :0) > > > > # > > > > M: If the way is external, directions are possible, but it lies > within. > > > > Seek within. THE SELF IS ALWAYS REALIZED. Something not already > realized might be sought afresh. But the Self is within your > experience. > > > > D.: Yes. I realize myself. > > > > M: MYSELF. ARE THERE TWO - MY AND SELF? > > > > D.: I do not mean it. > > > > M: WHO IS IT THAT HAS OR HAS NOT REALIZED? > > > > Odysseus: This is the who am I. and it cannot be solved in >weeks. It took Osho several lives. and it took master Nis three >years. abiding in the I am state. > > > > > > Mr. B. C. Das asked why the mind cannot be turned inward in >>spite of repeated attempts. > > > > M: It is done by PRACTICE and dispassion and that SUCCEEDS ONLY > GRADUALLY. > > > > The mind, having been so long a cow accustomed to graze >>stealthily on others' estates, is not easily confined to her >>stall. ...... > > > > # > > > > Realization is nothing to be gained afresh; it is already there. > > > > > > All that is necessary is to get rid of the thought " I have not > realized " . > > > Odysseus: Taken directly as a intellectual answers it is not true. > What is meant here is the ignorance or the non acceptance of our > real condition, is the problem. Getting rid of the idea here means > to get rid of everythings that prevent you to realise your true > nature. It is a hard work, a day to day struggle. A real >suffering. > It is easy to be stupid but difficult to be wise. The ones who say > it is easy are 1-the ones who spent their life looking for wisdom >or 2-the fakes who think they understand something because they >red few books. > > > .....THERE IS ONLY ONE 'I' , ALL ALONG, BUT WHAT ARISES UP FROM > TIME TO TIME IS THE MISTAKEN' I -THOUGHT'; whereas the > intuitive 'I' , always remains Self-shining, i.e., even before it > becomes manifest. .... > > > > Odysseus: said for teaching purposes. That includes levels etc. >It is Ok! > > > > ....The feeling that I have not realised is the obstruction to > realisation. > > > > IN FACT IT IS ALREADY REALISED; THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO BE > REALISED. > > Odysseus: Beware to simply take those words intellectualy and say > to yourself I have reached or realise. Don't play games. Search >for the truth it is there, but only for the chosen ones. God's >grace frees the student, you are in God you are not God! Sorry!! > > > > > Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so >>far, it must take place hereafter. > > > > What is born will also die. > > > > ...... > > M. ... If you STRENGTHEN the mind, that peace will continue for > all time. Its duration is PROPORTIONAL to the strength of mind > acquired by REPEATED practice. > > > >Odysseus: Not in sahaja Nirvikalpa samadhi as he experienced > everyday. Here is for teaching purposes again. > > > > > > A Gujerati gentleman said that he was concentrating on sound >>nada -and desired to know if the method was right. > > > > M: Meditation on nada is one of the several approved methods. > > > > ....... > > > > After it is felt the practice should not be made an end in >>itself. > Nada is not the objective; THE SUBJECT SHOULD FIRMLY BE HELD; > OTHERWISE A BLANK WILL RESULT. Though the subject is there even in > the blank he would not be aware of the cessation of nada of > different kinds. IN ORDER TO BE AWARE EVEN IN THAT BLANK ONE MUST > REMEMBER HIS OWN SELF. ..... > > > Odysseus: I bow to Ramana that has been an instrument of the Lord. > And I bow to those rare few naive who still believe in God. Jehova = > I am. It is written above from Ramana. > > Thanks to all, > > Odysseus, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ first off,I checked my email and received some email about my decision not to spend any time looking on the board anymore—--so, what the heck, I decided to pop back in. And what am I greeted with but a fascinating belief by Odysseus. Which causes me to ask you a question.... It may be a little tricky to stay with since focusing on the *non* aspect is always rather a tricky little procedure. Mind bending to be sure...even more mind bending when one is caught up in the attempt to analyze if there is even a mind to bend...but I digress... >Odysseus, you say, " you are not god...sorry. " > >Odysseus: Jehova is the Self. We are in Jehova. He is us. We are not >him. Sorry for you folks! You are not at the top of the mountain! " >M: In fact God is none other than the Self. " > Odysseus: Yes! To preface: I'm not saying your statement/belief is right, wrong, good, bad or otherwise, I'm only saying that it continues to perpetuate the *non* game... which is fine if that's what you want...but it appears to me that it's the very one you're trying to avoid by explaining that there is no such thing as *non* (you know that game you play so well?) I'd like to question this line of yours Odysseus: " He is us. We are not him. " Then you go on to say: " God's grace frees the student, you are in God you are not God! Sorry!! " My questions: If God is everything then am I to understand that God is all? God is the dreamer and the dream? That which is dreamed regardless of it's quality or makeup? If God is everything then how can anything *not* be God? But you say, " you aren't God? " If you believe that God is the underlying behind all but you believe that you are not God how can that be? Do you understand how making this statement has just put you on the first step to your separation state? You know the state that doesn't exist? How can God be you but you not be God? And so the non-game continues and the wheel spins on and on and on. It sounds like a very fanciful religion this thing called non- duality but it indeed has defeated it's very purpose for you in that it already has caused you to identify with separation. The brain short circuits just trying to understand your belief in the game regarding the question. Now I will be blunt. It is a religion of prescribed beliefs. But the thing that makes it slightly different from other religions is that you can't accept there are any beliefs yet you go on believing them anyways. And as most religions go it is the self- state/altered state attempt to disassociate with itself (alter itself) so it can remain unidentified and unknown and separate – or as separate as it can possibly get. Sure it can't **really** ever be separate technically but that doesn't stop you from trying. This religion like others is a wonderful excuse to take no responsibility or involvement in getting on with your experience *just* as it is. Trying to make it something different, which is what many non-dualists focus on, only perpetuates the separation game of non-dualism. It's just another form of mind fuck. Only you have the luxury to debate weather there is a debate or debate the question that the mind actually does exist – or debate the word debate- or myriad of other variations of the non-dual game. And for most non-dualists I would say they're right...their mind doesn't exist….there is no evidence of it being used one iota. p.s. someone made a comment about my board name…...something about falling off the rainbow and hitting the ground… I will explain my board name: It's a joke between my husband and I. He's the rainbow andI'm the rider. I did fall off the bed to the ground once but that's waaaay too much information and not really pg rated and quite frankly nobodies business. hahaha As for AL's admonission for me to wake up – what am I waking up from? From not believing or adhering to your perscribed beliefs and idea about things? It's all fine. Believe what you want. Sleep if you want. What's wrong with sleeping? I'm only asking questions to clarify different people's non-dualist ideas so I can get a better understanding of what you're all thinking…...but I'll tell ya…... I need a secretary and a road map to keep track of it all. Lol. ~G. ---------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " goldenrainbowrider " <laughterx8@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Adithya K > > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > > > Ramana has clearly been one of the BEST teachers I have ever > >read. > > > One of his value lies in being totally Uncompromising, Totally > > Honest, truthful and Straight-forward. He spoke TRUTH in extremely > > clear, simple, straight and direct way. But, the best still is him > > being Completely free of any Compromise and any need to twist or > > manipulate the TRUTH in any way. > > > > > > > > > > Understanding him well becomes even more IMPORTANT in order to > >be able to navigate through spiritual Clutter created by many, > >many fake and half-baked as well as many totally confused and > >deluded teachers. > > > > > Odysseus: I love that expression; half baked. I think my dear > > friend Stefan said that too in one of his postings. Half baked > > teachers. > > > > > > Once you read and understand him well, it will you give you a > >new depth and perspective to be able to filter lot of scattered > >nonsense out. > >> > > > > >>D: How shall I realize God? > > > > > > M: God is an unknown entity. Moreover He is external. Whereas, > >the Self is always with you and it is you. Why do you leave out > >what is intimate and go in for what is external? . > > > > > > > Odysseus: Realise yourself first, Realise the Self first because > >it is more near than God. ( Ramana is a wise man ) > > > > > D.: What is this Self again? > > > > > > M: The Self is known to everyone but not clearly. > > > > > > You always exist. The Be-ing is the Self. > > > > > > 'I am' is the name of God. > > > > > > Of all the definitions of God, none is indeed so well put as the > > Biblical statement " I AM THAT I AM " in EXODUS (Chap. 3). There ate > > other statements, such as Brahmaivaham, Aham Brahmasmi and Soham. > > But none is so direct as the name JEHOVAH = I AM The Absolute > >Being is what is - It is the Self. It is God. Knowing the Self, God > >is known. > > > > Odysseus: Jehova is the Self. We are in Jehova. He is us. We are > >not him. Sorry for you folks! You are not at the top of the > mountain! > > > > > > In fact God is none other than the Self. > > > > > > Odysseus: Yes! > > > > > D.: In my meditation a blank interposes; I see no figure. > > > > > > M: Of course not. > > > > > > D.: What about the blank? > > > > > > M: WHO SEES THE BLANK? YOU MUST BE THERE. There is consciousness > > witnessing the blank. > > > > > > D.: Does it mean that I must go deeper and deeper? > > > > > > U: Yes. THERE IS NO MOMENT WHEN YOU ARE NOT. > > > > > > D.: But the answer does not come for the search inward. > > > > > > M: The enquirer is the answer and no other answer can come. > > > > > > What comes afresh cannot be true. What always is, is true. > > > > > > D.: Bhagavan always speaks from the highest standpoint. > > > > > > Sri Bhagavan (with a smile): People would not understand the > > simple and bare truth - the truth of their every day, ever-present > > and eternal experience. That Truth is that of the Self. > > > > Odysseus: Who is asking those questions??? Didn't he awake in a > >week of wonder!!?? talking to Ramana! > > > > > > > > IS THERE ANYONE NOT AWARE OF THE SELF? > > > > > > They would not even like to hear it (the Self), whereas they are > > eager to know what lies beyond - heaven, hell, reincarnation. > > Because they love mystery and not the bare truth, religions pamper > > them - only to bring them round to the Self. > > > > > >Odysseus: :0) > > > > > > # > > > > > > M: If the way is external, directions are possible, but it lies > > within. > > > > > > Seek within. THE SELF IS ALWAYS REALIZED. Something not already > > realized might be sought afresh. But the Self is within your > > experience. > > > > > > D.: Yes. I realize myself. > > > > > > M: MYSELF. ARE THERE TWO - MY AND SELF? > > > > > > D.: I do not mean it. > > > > > > M: WHO IS IT THAT HAS OR HAS NOT REALIZED? > > > > > > Odysseus: This is the who am I. and it cannot be solved in > >weeks. It took Osho several lives. and it took master Nis three > >years. abiding in the I am state. > > > > > > > > > Mr. B. C. Das asked why the mind cannot be turned inward in > >>spite of repeated attempts. > > > > > > M: It is done by PRACTICE and dispassion and that SUCCEEDS ONLY > > GRADUALLY. > > > > > > The mind, having been so long a cow accustomed to graze > >>stealthily on others' estates, is not easily confined to her > >>stall. ...... > > > > > > # > > > > > > Realization is nothing to be gained afresh; it is already there. > > > > > > > > > All that is necessary is to get rid of the thought " I have not > > realized " . > > > > > Odysseus: Taken directly as a intellectual answers it is not true. > > What is meant here is the ignorance or the non acceptance of our > > real condition, is the problem. Getting rid of the idea here means > > to get rid of everythings that prevent you to realise your true > > nature. It is a hard work, a day to day struggle. A real > >suffering. > > It is easy to be stupid but difficult to be wise. The ones who say > > it is easy are 1-the ones who spent their life looking for wisdom > >or 2-the fakes who think they understand something because they > >red few books. > > > > > .....THERE IS ONLY ONE 'I' , ALL ALONG, BUT WHAT ARISES UP FROM > > TIME TO TIME IS THE MISTAKEN' I -THOUGHT'; whereas the > > intuitive 'I' , always remains Self-shining, i.e., even before it > > becomes manifest. .... > > > > > > Odysseus: said for teaching purposes. That includes levels etc. > >It is Ok! > > > > > > ....The feeling that I have not realised is the obstruction to > > realisation. > > > > > > IN FACT IT IS ALREADY REALISED; THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO BE > > REALISED. > > > > Odysseus: Beware to simply take those words intellectualy and say > > to yourself I have reached or realise. Don't play games. Search > >for the truth it is there, but only for the chosen ones. God's > >grace frees the student, you are in God you are not God! Sorry!! > > > > > > > > Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so > >>far, it must take place hereafter. > > > > > > What is born will also die. > > > > > > ...... > > > M. ... If you STRENGTHEN the mind, that peace will continue for > > all time. Its duration is PROPORTIONAL to the strength of mind > > acquired by REPEATED practice. > > > > > >Odysseus: Not in sahaja Nirvikalpa samadhi as he experienced > > everyday. Here is for teaching purposes again. > > > > > > > > > A Gujerati gentleman said that he was concentrating on sound > >>nada -and desired to know if the method was right. > > > > > > M: Meditation on nada is one of the several approved methods. > > > > > > ....... > > > > > > After it is felt the practice should not be made an end in > >>itself. > > Nada is not the objective; THE SUBJECT SHOULD FIRMLY BE HELD; > > OTHERWISE A BLANK WILL RESULT. Though the subject is there even in > > the blank he would not be aware of the cessation of nada of > > different kinds. IN ORDER TO BE AWARE EVEN IN THAT BLANK ONE MUST > > REMEMBER HIS OWN SELF. ..... > > > > > > Odysseus: I bow to Ramana that has been an instrument of the Lord. > > And I bow to those rare few naive who still believe in God. Jehova > = > > I am. It is written above from Ramana. > > > > Thanks to all, > > > > Odysseus, > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > first off,I checked my email and received some email about my > decision not to spend any time looking on the board > anymore—--so, what the heck, I decided to pop back in. And > what am I greeted with but a fascinating belief by Odysseus. > Which causes me to ask you a question.... > > It may be a little tricky to stay with since focusing on the *non* > aspect is always rather a tricky little procedure. Mind bending to > be sure...even more mind bending when one is caught up in the > attempt to analyze if there is even a mind to bend...but I > digress... > > >Odysseus, you say, " you are not god...sorry. " > > > >Odysseus: Jehova is the Self. We are in Jehova. He is us. We are not > >him. Sorry for you folks! You are not at the top of the mountain! " > >M: In fact God is none other than the Self. " > > Odysseus: Yes! > > > > To preface: I'm not saying your statement/belief is right, > wrong, good, bad or otherwise, I'm only saying that it continues > to > perpetuate the *non* game... which is fine if that's what you > want...but it appears to me that it's the very one you're trying > to avoid by explaining that there is no such thing as *non* (you > know that game you play so well?) > > I'd like to question this line of yours Odysseus: " He is > us. We are not him. " Then you go on to say: " God's grace > frees the student, you are in God you are not God! Sorry!! " > > My questions: > If God is everything then am I to understand that God is all? > God is the dreamer and the dream? That which is dreamed regardless > of it's quality or makeup? If God is everything then how can > anything *not* be God? > > But you say, " you aren't God? " > > If you believe that God is the underlying behind all but you believe > that you are not God how can that be? > > Do you understand how making this statement has just put you on the > first step to your separation state? You know the state that > doesn't exist? > How can God be you but you not be God? > > And so the non-game continues and the wheel spins on and on and on. > > It sounds like a very fanciful religion this thing called non- > duality but it indeed has defeated it's very purpose for you in > that it already has caused you to identify with separation. The > brain short circuits just trying to understand your belief in the > game regarding the question. > > Now I will be blunt. It is a religion of prescribed beliefs. But > the thing that makes it slightly different from other religions is > that you can't accept there are any beliefs yet you go on > believing them anyways. > And as most religions go it is the self- state/altered state attempt > to disassociate with itself (alter itself) so it can remain > unidentified and unknown and separate – or as separate as it can > possibly get. Sure it can't **really** ever be separate > technically but that doesn't stop you from trying. > > This religion like others is a wonderful excuse to take > no responsibility or involvement in getting on with your experience > *just* as it is. Trying to make it something different, which is > what many non-dualists focus on, only perpetuates the separation > game of non-dualism. It's just another form of mind fuck. Only > you have the luxury to debate weather there is a debate or debate > the question that the mind actually does exist – or debate the > word debate- or myriad of other variations of the non-dual game. > And for most non-dualists I would say they're right...their mind > doesn't exist….there is no evidence of it being used one > iota. > > p.s. > someone made a comment about my board name…...something about > falling off the rainbow and hitting the ground… I will explain > my board name: > It's a joke between my husband and I. > He's the rainbow andI'm the rider. > I did fall off the bed to the ground once but that's waaaay too > much information and not really pg rated and quite frankly nobodies > business. hahaha > > As for AL's admonission for me to wake up – what am I waking > up from? From not believing or adhering to your perscribed beliefs > and idea about things? It's all fine. Believe what you want. > Sleep if you want. What's wrong with sleeping? I'm only > asking questions to clarify different people's non-dualist ideas > so I can get a better understanding of what you're all > thinking…...but I'll tell ya…... I need a secretary and a > road map > to keep track of it all. > > Lol. > > ~G. > ---------- This often happened in New Age circles - and maybe still do - that people blamed each other for being unconscious; " Wake up! " , they shouted at each other, taking themselves to be more " woken up " than the other person. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Adithya K > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > Ramana has clearly been one of the BEST teachers I have ever >read. > > One of his value lies in being totally Uncompromising, Totally > Honest, truthful and Straight-forward. He spoke TRUTH in extremely > clear, simple, straight and direct way. But, the best still is him > being Completely free of any Compromise and any need to twist or > manipulate the TRUTH in any way. > > > > > > > Understanding him well becomes even more IMPORTANT in order to >be able to navigate through spiritual Clutter created by many, >many fake and half-baked as well as many totally confused and >deluded teachers. > > > Odysseus: I love that expression; half baked. I think my dear > friend Stefan said that too in one of his postings. Half baked > teachers. > > > > Once you read and understand him well, it will you give you a >new depth and perspective to be able to filter lot of scattered >nonsense out. >> > > >>D: How shall I realize God? > > > > M: God is an unknown entity. Moreover He is external. Whereas, >the Self is always with you and it is you. Why do you leave out >what is intimate and go in for what is external? . > > > > Odysseus: Realise yourself first, Realise the Self first because >it is more near than God. ( Ramana is a wise man ) > > > D.: What is this Self again? > > > > M: The Self is known to everyone but not clearly. > > > > You always exist. The Be-ing is the Self. > > > > 'I am' is the name of God. > > > > Of all the definitions of God, none is indeed so well put as the > Biblical statement " I AM THAT I AM " in EXODUS (Chap. 3). There ate > other statements, such as Brahmaivaham, Aham Brahmasmi and Soham. > But none is so direct as the name JEHOVAH = I AM The Absolute >Being is what is - It is the Self. It is God. Knowing the Self, God >is known. > > Odysseus: Jehova is the Self. We are in Jehova. He is us. We are >not him. Sorry for you folks! You are not at the top of the mountain! > > > > In fact God is none other than the Self. > > > > Odysseus: Yes! > > > D.: In my meditation a blank interposes; I see no figure. > > > > M: Of course not. > > > > D.: What about the blank? > > > > M: WHO SEES THE BLANK? YOU MUST BE THERE. There is consciousness > witnessing the blank. > > > > D.: Does it mean that I must go deeper and deeper? > > > > U: Yes. THERE IS NO MOMENT WHEN YOU ARE NOT. > > > > D.: But the answer does not come for the search inward. > > > > M: The enquirer is the answer and no other answer can come. > > > > What comes afresh cannot be true. What always is, is true. > > > > D.: Bhagavan always speaks from the highest standpoint. > > > > Sri Bhagavan (with a smile): People would not understand the > simple and bare truth - the truth of their every day, ever-present > and eternal experience. That Truth is that of the Self. > > Odysseus: Who is asking those questions??? Didn't he awake in a >week of wonder!!?? talking to Ramana! > > > > > IS THERE ANYONE NOT AWARE OF THE SELF? > > > > They would not even like to hear it (the Self), whereas they are > eager to know what lies beyond - heaven, hell, reincarnation. > Because they love mystery and not the bare truth, religions pamper > them - only to bring them round to the Self. > > > >Odysseus: :0) > > > > # > > > > M: If the way is external, directions are possible, but it lies > within. > > > > Seek within. THE SELF IS ALWAYS REALIZED. Something not already > realized might be sought afresh. But the Self is within your > experience. > > > > D.: Yes. I realize myself. > > > > M: MYSELF. ARE THERE TWO - MY AND SELF? > > > > D.: I do not mean it. > > > > M: WHO IS IT THAT HAS OR HAS NOT REALIZED? > > > > Odysseus: This is the who am I. and it cannot be solved in >weeks. It took Osho several lives. and it took master Nis three >years. abiding in the I am state. > > > > > > Mr. B. C. Das asked why the mind cannot be turned inward in >>spite of repeated attempts. > > > > M: It is done by PRACTICE and dispassion and that SUCCEEDS ONLY > GRADUALLY. > > > > The mind, having been so long a cow accustomed to graze >>stealthily on others' estates, is not easily confined to her >>stall. ...... > > > > # > > > > Realization is nothing to be gained afresh; it is already there. > > > > > > All that is necessary is to get rid of the thought " I have not > realized " . > > > Odysseus: Taken directly as a intellectual answers it is not true. > What is meant here is the ignorance or the non acceptance of our > real condition, is the problem. Getting rid of the idea here means > to get rid of everythings that prevent you to realise your true > nature. It is a hard work, a day to day struggle. A real >suffering. > It is easy to be stupid but difficult to be wise. The ones who say > it is easy are 1-the ones who spent their life looking for wisdom >or 2-the fakes who think they understand something because they >red few books. > > > .....THERE IS ONLY ONE 'I' , ALL ALONG, BUT WHAT ARISES UP FROM > TIME TO TIME IS THE MISTAKEN' I -THOUGHT'; whereas the > intuitive 'I' , always remains Self-shining, i.e., even before it > becomes manifest. .... > > > > Odysseus: said for teaching purposes. That includes levels etc. >It is Ok! > > > > ....The feeling that I have not realised is the obstruction to > realisation. > > > > IN FACT IT IS ALREADY REALISED; THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO BE > REALISED. > > Odysseus: Beware to simply take those words intellectualy and say > to yourself I have reached or realise. Don't play games. Search >for the truth it is there, but only for the chosen ones. God's >grace frees the student, you are in God you are not God! Sorry!! > > > > > Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so >>far, it must take place hereafter. > > > > What is born will also die. > > > > ...... > > M. ... If you STRENGTHEN the mind, that peace will continue for > all time. Its duration is PROPORTIONAL to the strength of mind > acquired by REPEATED practice. > > > >Odysseus: Not in sahaja Nirvikalpa samadhi as he experienced > everyday. Here is for teaching purposes again. > > > > > > A Gujerati gentleman said that he was concentrating on sound >>nada -and desired to know if the method was right. > > > > M: Meditation on nada is one of the several approved methods. > > > > ....... > > > > After it is felt the practice should not be made an end in >>itself. > Nada is not the objective; THE SUBJECT SHOULD FIRMLY BE HELD; > OTHERWISE A BLANK WILL RESULT. Though the subject is there even in > the blank he would not be aware of the cessation of nada of > different kinds. IN ORDER TO BE AWARE EVEN IN THAT BLANK ONE MUST > REMEMBER HIS OWN SELF. ..... > > > Odysseus: I bow to Ramana that has been an instrument of the Lord. > And I bow to those rare few naive who still believe in God. Jehova = > I am. It is written above from Ramana. > > Thanks to all, > > Odysseus, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ first off,I checked my email and received some email about my decision not to spend any time looking on the board anymore—--so, what the heck, I decided to pop back in. And what am I greeted with but a fascinating belief by Odysseus. Which causes me to ask you a question.... It may be a little tricky to stay with since focusing on the *non* aspect is always rather a tricky little procedure. Mind bending to be sure...even more mind bending when one is caught up in the attempt to analyze if there is even a mind to bend...but I digress... >Odysseus, you say, " you are not god...sorry. " > >Odysseus: Jehova is the Self. We are in Jehova. He is us. We are not >him. Sorry for you folks! You are not at the top of the mountain! " >M: In fact God is none other than the Self. " > Odysseus: Yes! To preface: I'm not saying your statement/belief is right, wrong, good, bad or otherwise, I'm only saying that it continues to perpetuate the *non* game... which is fine if that's what you want...but it appears to me that it's the very one you're trying to avoid by explaining that there is no such thing as *non* (you know that game you play so well?) I'd like to question this line of yours Odysseus: " He is us. We are not him. " Then you go on to say: " God's grace frees the student, you are in God you are not God! Sorry!! " My questions: If God is everything then am I to understand that God is all? God is the dreamer and the dream? That which is dreamed regardless of it's quality or makeup? If God is everything then how can anything *not* be God? But you say, " you aren't God? " If you believe that God is the underlying behind all but you believe that you are not God how can that be? Do you understand how making this statement has just put you on the first step to your separation state? You know the state that doesn't exist? How can God be you but you not be God? And so the non-game continues and the wheel spins on and on and on. It sounds like a very fanciful religion this thing called non- duality but it indeed has defeated it's very purpose for you in that it already has caused you to identify with separation. The brain short circuits just trying to understand your belief in the game regarding the question. Now I will be blunt. It is a religion of prescribed beliefs. But the thing that makes it slightly different from other religions is that you can't accept there are any beliefs yet you go on believing them anyways. And as most religions go it is the self- state/altered state attempt to disassociate with itself (alter itself) so it can remain unidentified and unknown and separate – or as separate as it can possibly get. Sure it can't **really** ever be separate technically but that doesn't stop you from trying. This religion like others is a wonderful excuse to take no responsibility or involvement in getting on with your experience *just* as it is. Trying to make it something different, which is what many non-dualists focus on, only perpetuates the separation game of non-dualism. It's just another form of mind fuck. Only you have the luxury to debate weather there is a debate or debate the question that the mind actually does exist – or debate the word debate- or myriad of other variations of the non-dual game. And for most non-dualists I would say they're right...their mind doesn't exist….there is no evidence of it being used one iota. p.s. someone made a comment about my board name…...something about falling off the rainbow and hitting the ground… I will explain my board name: It's a joke between my husband and I. He's the rainbow andI'm the rider. I did fall off the bed to the ground once but that's waaaay too much information and not really pg rated and quite frankly nobodies business. hahaha As for AL's admonission for me to wake up – what am I waking up from? From not believing or adhering to your perscribed beliefs and idea about things? It's all fine. Believe what you want. Sleep if you want. What's wrong with sleeping? I'm only asking questions to clarify different people's non-dualist ideas so I can get a better understanding of what you're all thinking…...but I'll tell ya…... I need a secretary and a road map to keep track of it all. Lol. ~G. ---------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " goldenrainbowrider " <laughterx8@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Adithya K > > <adithya_comming> wrote: > > > > > > Ramana has clearly been one of the BEST teachers I have ever > >read. > > > One of his value lies in being totally Uncompromising, Totally > > Honest, truthful and Straight-forward. He spoke TRUTH in extremely > > clear, simple, straight and direct way. But, the best still is him > > being Completely free of any Compromise and any need to twist or > > manipulate the TRUTH in any way. > > > > > > > > > > Understanding him well becomes even more IMPORTANT in order to > >be able to navigate through spiritual Clutter created by many, > >many fake and half-baked as well as many totally confused and > >deluded teachers. > > > > > Odysseus: I love that expression; half baked. I think my dear > > friend Stefan said that too in one of his postings. Half baked > > teachers. > > > > > > Once you read and understand him well, it will you give you a > >new depth and perspective to be able to filter lot of scattered > >nonsense out. > >> > > > > >>D: How shall I realize God? > > > > > > M: God is an unknown entity. Moreover He is external. Whereas, > >the Self is always with you and it is you. Why do you leave out > >what is intimate and go in for what is external? . > > > > > > > Odysseus: Realise yourself first, Realise the Self first because > >it is more near than God. ( Ramana is a wise man ) > > > > > D.: What is this Self again? > > > > > > M: The Self is known to everyone but not clearly. > > > > > > You always exist. The Be-ing is the Self. > > > > > > 'I am' is the name of God. > > > > > > Of all the definitions of God, none is indeed so well put as the > > Biblical statement " I AM THAT I AM " in EXODUS (Chap. 3). There ate > > other statements, such as Brahmaivaham, Aham Brahmasmi and Soham. > > But none is so direct as the name JEHOVAH = I AM The Absolute > >Being is what is - It is the Self. It is God. Knowing the Self, God > >is known. > > > > Odysseus: Jehova is the Self. We are in Jehova. He is us. We are > >not him. Sorry for you folks! You are not at the top of the > mountain! > > > > > > In fact God is none other than the Self. > > > > > > Odysseus: Yes! > > > > > D.: In my meditation a blank interposes; I see no figure. > > > > > > M: Of course not. > > > > > > D.: What about the blank? > > > > > > M: WHO SEES THE BLANK? YOU MUST BE THERE. There is consciousness > > witnessing the blank. > > > > > > D.: Does it mean that I must go deeper and deeper? > > > > > > U: Yes. THERE IS NO MOMENT WHEN YOU ARE NOT. > > > > > > D.: But the answer does not come for the search inward. > > > > > > M: The enquirer is the answer and no other answer can come. > > > > > > What comes afresh cannot be true. What always is, is true. > > > > > > D.: Bhagavan always speaks from the highest standpoint. > > > > > > Sri Bhagavan (with a smile): People would not understand the > > simple and bare truth - the truth of their every day, ever-present > > and eternal experience. That Truth is that of the Self. > > > > Odysseus: Who is asking those questions??? Didn't he awake in a > >week of wonder!!?? talking to Ramana! > > > > > > > > IS THERE ANYONE NOT AWARE OF THE SELF? > > > > > > They would not even like to hear it (the Self), whereas they are > > eager to know what lies beyond - heaven, hell, reincarnation. > > Because they love mystery and not the bare truth, religions pamper > > them - only to bring them round to the Self. > > > > > >Odysseus: :0) > > > > > > # > > > > > > M: If the way is external, directions are possible, but it lies > > within. > > > > > > Seek within. THE SELF IS ALWAYS REALIZED. Something not already > > realized might be sought afresh. But the Self is within your > > experience. > > > > > > D.: Yes. I realize myself. > > > > > > M: MYSELF. ARE THERE TWO - MY AND SELF? > > > > > > D.: I do not mean it. > > > > > > M: WHO IS IT THAT HAS OR HAS NOT REALIZED? > > > > > > Odysseus: This is the who am I. and it cannot be solved in > >weeks. It took Osho several lives. and it took master Nis three > >years. abiding in the I am state. > > > > > > > > > Mr. B. C. Das asked why the mind cannot be turned inward in > >>spite of repeated attempts. > > > > > > M: It is done by PRACTICE and dispassion and that SUCCEEDS ONLY > > GRADUALLY. > > > > > > The mind, having been so long a cow accustomed to graze > >>stealthily on others' estates, is not easily confined to her > >>stall. ...... > > > > > > # > > > > > > Realization is nothing to be gained afresh; it is already there. > > > > > > > > > All that is necessary is to get rid of the thought " I have not > > realized " . > > > > > Odysseus: Taken directly as a intellectual answers it is not true. > > What is meant here is the ignorance or the non acceptance of our > > real condition, is the problem. Getting rid of the idea here means > > to get rid of everythings that prevent you to realise your true > > nature. It is a hard work, a day to day struggle. A real > >suffering. > > It is easy to be stupid but difficult to be wise. The ones who say > > it is easy are 1-the ones who spent their life looking for wisdom > >or 2-the fakes who think they understand something because they > >red few books. > > > > > .....THERE IS ONLY ONE 'I' , ALL ALONG, BUT WHAT ARISES UP FROM > > TIME TO TIME IS THE MISTAKEN' I -THOUGHT'; whereas the > > intuitive 'I' , always remains Self-shining, i.e., even before it > > becomes manifest. .... > > > > > > Odysseus: said for teaching purposes. That includes levels etc. > >It is Ok! > > > > > > ....The feeling that I have not realised is the obstruction to > > realisation. > > > > > > IN FACT IT IS ALREADY REALISED; THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO BE > > REALISED. > > > > Odysseus: Beware to simply take those words intellectualy and say > > to yourself I have reached or realise. Don't play games. Search > >for the truth it is there, but only for the chosen ones. God's > >grace frees the student, you are in God you are not God! Sorry!! > > > > > > > > Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so > >>far, it must take place hereafter. > > > > > > What is born will also die. > > > > > > ...... > > > M. ... If you STRENGTHEN the mind, that peace will continue for > > all time. Its duration is PROPORTIONAL to the strength of mind > > acquired by REPEATED practice. > > > > > >Odysseus: Not in sahaja Nirvikalpa samadhi as he experienced > > everyday. Here is for teaching purposes again. > > > > > > > > > A Gujerati gentleman said that he was concentrating on sound > >>nada -and desired to know if the method was right. > > > > > > M: Meditation on nada is one of the several approved methods. > > > > > > ....... > > > > > > After it is felt the practice should not be made an end in > >>itself. > > Nada is not the objective; THE SUBJECT SHOULD FIRMLY BE HELD; > > OTHERWISE A BLANK WILL RESULT. Though the subject is there even in > > the blank he would not be aware of the cessation of nada of > > different kinds. IN ORDER TO BE AWARE EVEN IN THAT BLANK ONE MUST > > REMEMBER HIS OWN SELF. ..... > > > > > > Odysseus: I bow to Ramana that has been an instrument of the Lord. > > And I bow to those rare few naive who still believe in God. Jehova > = > > I am. It is written above from Ramana. > > > > Thanks to all, > > > > Odysseus, > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > first off,I checked my email and received some email about my > decision not to spend any time looking on the board > anymore—--so, what the heck, I decided to pop back in. And > what am I greeted with but a fascinating belief by Odysseus. > Which causes me to ask you a question.... > > It may be a little tricky to stay with since focusing on the *non* > aspect is always rather a tricky little procedure. Mind bending to > be sure...even more mind bending when one is caught up in the > attempt to analyze if there is even a mind to bend...but I > digress... > > >Odysseus, you say, " you are not god...sorry. " > > > >Odysseus: Jehova is the Self. We are in Jehova. He is us. We are not > >him. Sorry for you folks! You are not at the top of the mountain! " > >M: In fact God is none other than the Self. " > > Odysseus: Yes! > > > > To preface: I'm not saying your statement/belief is right, > wrong, good, bad or otherwise, I'm only saying that it continues > to > perpetuate the *non* game... which is fine if that's what you > want...but it appears to me that it's the very one you're trying > to avoid by explaining that there is no such thing as *non* (you > know that game you play so well?) > > I'd like to question this line of yours Odysseus: " He is > us. We are not him. " Then you go on to say: " God's grace > frees the student, you are in God you are not God! Sorry!! " > > My questions: > If God is everything then am I to understand that God is all? > God is the dreamer and the dream? That which is dreamed regardless > of it's quality or makeup? If God is everything then how can > anything *not* be God? > > But you say, " you aren't God? " > > If you believe that God is the underlying behind all but you believe > that you are not God how can that be? > > Do you understand how making this statement has just put you on the > first step to your separation state? You know the state that > doesn't exist? > How can God be you but you not be God? > > And so the non-game continues and the wheel spins on and on and on. > > It sounds like a very fanciful religion this thing called non- > duality but it indeed has defeated it's very purpose for you in > that it already has caused you to identify with separation. The > brain short circuits just trying to understand your belief in the > game regarding the question. > > Now I will be blunt. It is a religion of prescribed beliefs. But > the thing that makes it slightly different from other religions is > that you can't accept there are any beliefs yet you go on > believing them anyways. > And as most religions go it is the self- state/altered state attempt > to disassociate with itself (alter itself) so it can remain > unidentified and unknown and separate – or as separate as it can > possibly get. Sure it can't **really** ever be separate > technically but that doesn't stop you from trying. > > This religion like others is a wonderful excuse to take > no responsibility or involvement in getting on with your experience > *just* as it is. Trying to make it something different, which is > what many non-dualists focus on, only perpetuates the separation > game of non-dualism. It's just another form of mind fuck. Only > you have the luxury to debate weather there is a debate or debate > the question that the mind actually does exist – or debate the > word debate- or myriad of other variations of the non-dual game. > And for most non-dualists I would say they're right...their mind > doesn't exist….there is no evidence of it being used one > iota. > > p.s. > someone made a comment about my board name…...something about > falling off the rainbow and hitting the ground… I will explain > my board name: > It's a joke between my husband and I. > He's the rainbow andI'm the rider. > I did fall off the bed to the ground once but that's waaaay too > much information and not really pg rated and quite frankly nobodies > business. hahaha > > As for AL's admonission for me to wake up – what am I waking > up from? From not believing or adhering to your perscribed beliefs > and idea about things? It's all fine. Believe what you want. > Sleep if you want. What's wrong with sleeping? I'm only > asking questions to clarify different people's non-dualist ideas > so I can get a better understanding of what you're all > thinking…...but I'll tell ya…... I need a secretary and a > road map > to keep track of it all. > > Lol. > > ~G. > ---------- This often happened in New Age circles - and maybe still do - that people blamed each other for being unconscious; " Wake up! " , they shouted at each other, taking themselves to be more " woken up " than the other person. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.