Guest guest Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > >What you seemingly are hearing in your music is your subjectivity > and > >imagine a person being deaf won't hear it at all or a person > >suffering from tooth ache will hear it totally different another day > >when being free of that ache. You cannot separate the subject from > >the object which in my example was music. > > Very true. > > The subject and the object are interdependent, like two sides of a > coin. When one arises the other arises, when one disappears the other > disappears. But the object can never be the subject of itself. This is > the very base of duality. Understanding this means understanding > duality. And seeing the flaws in it can lead to approach reality. > > The mind likes to have its cosy corner in duality, that is the air it > is breathing. One of its tricks is to talk about non-duality as it > would be possible to talk about it in terms of duality (Toombarus). > This is not possible. And I often wonder what we guys are talking > about here. > > The only expression that still makes some sense to me is " let go " . > > Greetings > a person called S., posting... Stefan - Duality is merely conventions of thought, speech, memory, and emotional reaction. None of these conventions enters into, or changes " what actually is so. " Therefore, the separation of duality and nonduality is itself a convention of thought, speech, and memory. Other than that, there is no separation of duality and nonduality. Therefore, we can say whatever we want, whatever makes sense to us in the context we perceive, and the relationships and exhanges that are occurring as we understand these. With regard to subject and object, no actual separation of subject and object is made to occur simply because conventions of speech, thought, memory, and emotional response seem to refer to a separation. Therefore, using " I " or " it " in a sentence isn't problematic, isn't disturbing " what is, as is, " nor is there any problem with saying, " There is neither 'I' or 'it.' " It just depends on the conversation you're having, with whom, and what makes sense to say in that context. With regards to what can't be said in language -- well, that has never been, and never will be said in language. It is understood without reliance on language, memory, predetermined emotional reactions, or social conventionalities. Yet, we can discuss as we will to indicate such understanding, and some language works in some situations and contexts moreso than other language. That's just how it is with language. I guess each does his or her best, in his or her way, given the understanding for that one. And each event and communication that transpires, as is, is inextricably interwoven in this inevitability that we call space-time experience. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Nisargadatta , " dan330033 " <dan330033> wrote: >Duality is merely conventions of thought, speech, memory, >and emotional reaction. No, duality is the basics of the material world, as perceived by material senses. Those who are not able to function accordingly mostly end up in the madhouse. This does not mean that duality is real, of course it is a concept. But such theories are useless, they lead nowhere. And I wonder why you want to discuss them on a Nisargadatta board? Not that I am offended, just wondering. Moreover, I am not sure what you want to discuss at all. Or do you merely want to challange me? Dont try it, I am a lazy man... >With regards to what can't be said in language -- well, that >has never been, and never will be said in language. >It is understood without reliance on language, memory, >predetermined emotional reactions, or social conventionalities. Nisargadatta in " I am that " §20 " Whatever you may say will be both true and false. Words do not reach beyond the mind. " and later " On the verbal level everything is relative. Absolutes should be experienced, not discussed. " Experienced, do you get what he means? Experienced, not discussed... S (letting go) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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