Guest guest Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > I'm not trying to be credible, Odysseus, > > I'm wanting to demonstrate how stories work. > > Odysseus: You likes stories don't you! :0) > > > > Stories about reesponsibility, accountability, > > and guilt, such as the ones you > > favor, are also constructed notions. > > Odysseus: And here we come to the point my dear friend. This is not > a story but this is life. This is not a shadow but it is real. It > happens every day and every night in our world. Ignoring this and > saying that these are just stories only add to the global earthly > ignorance about reality or truth. Were you that wife who commit > suicide because she could bare the shame? Is the husband not guilty > at all? On the contrary, it is only by fully understanding what storying includes, that one is clear on what is not story. Mistaking storying for an objective truth about what life is, is clinging to belief. One who invests in story as if it isn't a story, and is objectively how things are, will continue on trying to have the story, until frustration, disharmony, and contradiction open as inquiry. Inquiry will be postponed, avoided, deferred, as long as the story can be held and maintained that " this is my life, and it is satisfactory " (whether that story be that one's wife is faithful or unfaithful, or that one should commit suicide or shouldn't commit suicide). And by " inquiry " , I don't mean constructing a process, which would just be another story. I mean the deconstruction of held construction, which, when (now) it is fully aware, is the understanding that any construction already is its deconstruction. Now, no story is appearing, and therefore, no story is disappearing. Simple clarity, beyond anything that can be stated through written words. > > They just have hundreds of years of social machinery > > involved in keeping them apparently solid. > > > Odysseus: You are above all that why wonder? I'm not above all. And wonderment doesn't require a " why. " > > And I'm not contesting the social value of such stories. > > > > They have social value or they wouldn't have been kept > > going by so much social energy. > > > > Nonetheless, they are constructed stories. > > > Odysseus: no they are not. In the word real " ity " is another word. > Real. How can reality be false? If you observe carefully, constructed realities are in flux. Over thousands of years, very different versions of realities come and go in myriads of different ways. None of them has any solidly founded facticity, although for a period of time, they can be very convincing. I didn't say stories couldn't be convincing, nor did I say that stories should be gotten rid of because they are unreal. I merely suggest understanding the full extent of storying. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > I'm not trying to be credible, Odysseus, > > I'm wanting to demonstrate how stories work. > > Odysseus: You likes stories don't you! :0) > > > > Stories about reesponsibility, accountability, > > and guilt, such as the ones you > > favor, are also constructed notions. > > Odysseus: And here we come to the point my dear friend. This is not > a story but this is life. This is not a shadow but it is real. It > happens every day and every night in our world. Ignoring this and > saying that these are just stories only add to the global earthly > ignorance about reality or truth. Were you that wife who commit > suicide because she could bare the shame? Is the husband not guilty > at all? On the contrary, it is only by fully understanding what storying includes, that one is clear on what is not story. Mistaking storying for an objective truth about what life is, is clinging to belief. One who invests in story as if it isn't a story, and is objectively how things are, will continue on trying to have the story, until frustration, disharmony, and contradiction open as inquiry. Inquiry will be postponed, avoided, deferred, as long as the story can be held and maintained that " this is my life, and it is satisfactory " (whether that story be that one's wife is faithful or unfaithful, or that one should commit suicide or shouldn't commit suicide). And by " inquiry " , I don't mean constructing a process, which would just be another story. I mean the deconstruction of held construction, which, when (now) it is fully aware, is the understanding that any construction already is its deconstruction. Now, no story is appearing, and therefore, no story is disappearing. Simple clarity, beyond anything that can be stated through written words. > > They just have hundreds of years of social machinery > > involved in keeping them apparently solid. > > > Odysseus: You are above all that why wonder? I'm not above all. And wonderment doesn't require a " why. " > > And I'm not contesting the social value of such stories. > > > > They have social value or they wouldn't have been kept > > going by so much social energy. > > > > Nonetheless, they are constructed stories. > > > Odysseus: no they are not. In the word real " ity " is another word. > Real. How can reality be false? If you observe carefully, constructed realities are in flux. Over thousands of years, very different versions of realities come and go in myriads of different ways. None of them has any solidly founded facticity, although for a period of time, they can be very convincing. I didn't say stories couldn't be convincing, nor did I say that stories should be gotten rid of because they are unreal. I merely suggest understanding the full extent of storying. -- Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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