Inside and Outside

[Guest guest]

In Nisargadatta ,

" anders_lindman "

<anders_lindman> wrote:

>

> Nisargadatta ,

ombhurbhuva <ombhurbhuva@e...>

wrote:

> > Anders wrote:

> > My view of deep sleep is that we can

> > actually never know if we ever

> > have been in deep sleep. What we call

deep

> > sleep is a memory

> > experienced now, or we could call it a

gap

> > in linear memory experience

> > now.

> >

> >

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

> > %

> >

> > Hi Anders,

> > I'm new to the group though some

> > will know me from elsewhere. The

> > knowledge that we have been in a state

of

> > deep sleep is regarded as very

important

> > in Vedanta but on what is this

knowledge

> > based? Can it really be a memory for

by

> > definition we have to be conscious to

have

> > experiences which we later recall in

the

> > form of memories. What we didn't

> > experience we can't remember.

> >

> > The other odd thing about our

'knowledge'

> > that we have been in a state of deep

sleep

> > is that no matter how long we have

been in

> > that state according to the EEG

machine it

> > is only a point instant in

consciousness

> > because it has no features to give it

> > duration.

> >

> > Stranger and stranger there is no ego,

> > mind or witness (saksin) in deep

sleep.

> > Truly it is some sort of blank,

nescient,

> > dark samadhi.

> >

> > Best Wishes, Michael

>

> Hi Michael,

>

> What I was pointing to is that all we

know is what we know now.

> Memories about having been asleep (or a

gap in memory) is necessarily

> not the same as if we actually have

experienced it. This means that we

> maybe have not experience _anything_ in

an actual past, but instead

> what we experience as the past is only a

quantum field experienced now.

>

> This idea is very difficult to wrap

one's mind around because the mind

> thinks: " of course I have done this and

that in the past.....I can

> feel that the Big Mac and Co I ate half

an hour ago is still in my

> stomach, and I even have a stain of

dressing left on my

> shirt.......and now you are telling me

that I have not eaten that

> hamburger meal??? "

>

> What I am saying is: perhaps we have

never eaten any meal, never been

> asleep, never been younger than we are

now... All we know, _all_ we

> know is what we know now, and _only_

now. With this view there never

> has been any EEG recording done. Never,

ever!

>

> " No one has ever bought any shoes. " --

Tony Parsons

>

> /AL

 

PS. To really understand the possibility

of what I am pointing to, it

must, along the line with this

investigation, also be pointed out that

there never has been any Tony Parsons

either. Tony Parsons is a person

now and only now. The " past " Tony Parsons

is a quantum information

structure that gives a cohersive

appearance of a seamless past,

reaching back to the Big Bang, which is

not a " real " past at all, but

a timeless quantum " now " . This " now "

contains the entire history

record from the " beginning " of the

universe up to present day. This

" now " happens now. Even the past happens

now, is " created " now. What

appear like 16 billion years is " created "

in " zero " seconds. " Infinite

time compression "

 

This timeless now is a web of information

that makes up what is.

Information in itself does not contain

time. If you have an MP3 file

on your computer with 3 minutes of music,

that MP3 file does not

contain time, but the information in the

file is structured in a way

that gives the appearance of time, and

even when the file is played

and sound is coming out of the

loudspeakers there is no 3 minutes of

music. The sound is now and only now.

 

/AL

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Hi Anders,

 

Living in the absolute now would not be

very adaptive. There is no truck in the

middle of the road where I'm crossing now

but my path and its will intersect if I

move now. Living a little ahead of now is

what keeps us alive and also helps to

return that killer serve.

The reaction time to the totally

unexpected gives a sense how plastic

'now' is. Have you noticed how you will

see or hear it and then jump out of your

skin. There's a definite time lapse.

 

From a metaphysical point of view Vedanta

recognises that time is tri-valent. The

real is spoken of as that which is

unsublated (uncontradicted) in all three

moments of time i.e. past, present and

future.

 

I have the feeling that if I were to live

in the absolute now there would be a

white-out into pure being or the

atemporal. Do you consider that the psi

factor plays a part in our conception of

time? I have some mild experience of this

in the form of precognition. However you

can't know that it's precognitive until

you experience it *again*. But it's also

the case that the future must be somehow

now too or else it could not be lived now.

In that respect I admit your point.

 

Michael