Guest guest Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 What is being re-wired? What is " the brain " ? It's meat. Sentient meat. Information, memories, thoughts, perceptions, feelings, associations are being processed and thought to be stored and retrieved in specific centers in the brain, and yet no actual information can be found there in the recesses and grey matter of the brain, or anywhere else. And yet, even if the information is nowhere to be found, a heart cell, a brain cell, a liver cell a muscle cell, all contain the same exact information and genetic blueprint of the WHOLE, albeit with different functions. Even if the pre-synaptic and post-synaptic sites of the neurons in the brain are alterable, is the synapse itself, the link where the transmission takes place, the nothingness of the space between the neurons, and that information which jumps from gate to gate, is it touchable? alterable? ~freyja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 In a message dated 2/17/05 7:21:58 PM, freyjartist writes: > > > Nisargadatta , freyjartist@a... wrote: > > What is being re-wired? > > > > What is " the brain " ? It's meat. Sentient meat. > > > > Information, memories, thoughts, perceptions, feelings, > > associations are being processed and thought > > to be stored and retrieved in specific centers in the brain, > > > > and yet no actual information can be found there > > in the recesses and grey matter of the brain, > > or anywhere else. > > > > And yet, even if the information is nowhere to be found, > > a heart cell, a brain cell, a liver cell > > a muscle cell, all contain the same exact information > > and genetic blueprint of the WHOLE, albeit with different > functions. > > > > Even if the pre-synaptic and post-synaptic sites of the neurons > > in the brain > > are alterable, is the synapse itself, the link where > > the transmission takes place, > > the nothingness of the space between > > the neurons, and that information which jumps > > from gate to gate, is it touchable? alterable? > > > > ~freyja > > > > > Are there any real divisions between > information, links and > the meat, or are they all one and the same > as if an orchestra, > composing, conducting, producing and > hearing one symphony played by a multitude > of instruments? > P: Rhetorical questions, I presume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Nisargadatta , freyjartist@a... wrote: > What is being re-wired? > > What is " the brain " ? It's meat. Sentient meat. > > Information, memories, thoughts, perceptions, feelings, > associations are being processed and thought > to be stored and retrieved in specific centers in the brain, > > and yet no actual information can be found there > in the recesses and grey matter of the brain, > or anywhere else. > > And yet, even if the information is nowhere to be found, > a heart cell, a brain cell, a liver cell > a muscle cell, all contain the same exact information > and genetic blueprint of the WHOLE, albeit with different functions. > > Even if the pre-synaptic and post-synaptic sites of the neurons > in the brain > are alterable, is the synapse itself, the link where > the transmission takes place, > the nothingness of the space between > the neurons, and that information which jumps > from gate to gate, is it touchable? alterable? > > ~freyja > Are there any real divisions between information, links and the meat, or are they all one and the same as if an orchestra, composing, conducting, producing and hearing one symphony played by a multitude of instruments? f. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 2/17/05 7:21:58 PM, freyjartist@a... writes: > > > P: Rhetorical questions, I presume? > f. Does that matter? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 2/17/05 7:21:58 PM, freyjartist@a... writes: > > > P: Rhetorical questions, I presume? > f. Does it matter if they are rhetorical or not rhetorical? Answer them if you want.... or don't! > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Nisargadatta , freyjartist@a... wrote: > What is being re-wired? > > What is " the brain " ? It's meat. Sentient meat. > > Information, memories, thoughts, perceptions, feelings, > associations are being processed and thought > to be stored and retrieved in specific centers in the brain, Well, I have read that memories are actually not stored in separate parts in the brain but more like a web throughout the whole brain. Remove a piece of the brain and it is not specific memories that dissapears. But more importantly, memories are stored in the entire body! I can feel that directly in myself, so I don't need any science to tell me that or deny that. > > and yet no actual information can be found there > in the recesses and grey matter of the brain, > or anywhere else. > > And yet, even if the information is nowhere to be found, > a heart cell, a brain cell, a liver cell > a muscle cell, all contain the same exact information > and genetic blueprint of the WHOLE, albeit with different functions. > > Even if the pre-synaptic and post-synaptic sites of the neurons > in the brain > are alterable, is the synapse itself, the link where > the transmission takes place, > the nothingness of the space between > the neurons, and that information which jumps > from gate to gate, is it touchable? alterable? > > ~freyja Scientists have found " brain like " cells in many other parts of the body, for example in the stomach area (gut feeling). Isn't that right? And the heart; I feel that my heart has a capability to sense things when it is open. Also, the heart is connected to every blood vessel in the entire body. For example, the complex pattern of blood flow in the brain that can be measured and presented as digital pictures must be the result of a very advanced regulating system of the blood vessels. Consciousness is not merely information. Consciousness is what is aware of information. Maybe that which you cannot find between bits of information between neurons is filled with consciousness. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , freyjartist@a... wrote: > > What is being re-wired? > > > > What is " the brain " ? It's meat. Sentient meat. > > > > Information, memories, thoughts, perceptions, feelings, > > associations are being processed and thought > > to be stored and retrieved in specific centers in the brain, > > Well, I have read that memories are actually not stored in separate > parts in the brain but more like a web throughout the whole brain. > Remove a piece of the brain and it is not specific memories that > dissapears. > f. Hi AL, It may not be the memories that disappear, per se, but if a part of the brain is damaged somehow there can be impairment of function, and the person has to re-learn how to do certain things, like to walk, talk. > But more importantly, memories are stored in the entire body! I can > feel that directly in myself, so I don't need any science to tell me > that or deny that. > f. Yes, that's cellular memory, AL. Holistic practitioners work with that. Science, and especially mathematics, including the ever-expanding area of biological mathematics, have developed a concise language to describe what is going on, and Quantum physics is the poetry of mathematics. > > > > and yet no actual information can be found there > > in the recesses and grey matter of the brain, > > or anywhere else. > > > > And yet, even if the information is nowhere to be found, > > a heart cell, a brain cell, a liver cell > > a muscle cell, all contain the same exact information > > and genetic blueprint of the WHOLE, albeit with different functions. > > > > Even if the pre-synaptic and post-synaptic sites of the neurons > > in the brain > > are alterable, is the synapse itself, the link where > > the transmission takes place, > > the nothingness of the space between > > the neurons, and that information which jumps > > from gate to gate, is it touchable? alterable? > > > > ~freyja > > Scientists have found " brain like " cells in many other parts of the > body, for example in the stomach area (gut feeling). Isn't that right? > > And the heart; I feel that my heart has a capability to sense things > when it is open. Also, the heart is connected to every blood vessel in > the entire body. For example, the complex pattern of blood flow in the > brain that can be measured and presented as digital pictures must be > the result of a very advanced regulating system of the blood vessels. > > Consciousness is not merely information. Consciousness is what is > aware of information. Maybe that which you cannot find between bits of > information between neurons is filled with consciousness. > > /AL f. And yet the synaptic cleft, the information and the nothingness between neurons, can all be explained mathematically, in the realm of the irrational numbers, like pi. Irrational numbers like pi can also explain the realm of other dimensions, and parallel universes. Alas, mathematics is also a language, sophisticated as it is, but still based on meaning, but it is very fine and elegant language which can best show the elegant order that exists in the universe and the simple rules by which it runs. All cells throughout the body have synapses, and they attract the information, i.e. neuro transmitters, because of the existing magnetic field. So, when Pete talks in terms of the brain being re-wired, it is interesting to ponder just what is going on. What is it that changes? Does only the brain change and not the information? Is it that the receptor sites for the information become less clogged --able to perceive the information, as it is - 'true' reality; or does the fact that the receptor sites are somehow altered and more efficient impact and transform the information somehow? I lean towards that kind of symbiosis, where both are impacting each other at the same time. So, where do you think meaning comes from? What makes the human being different from A.I.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Nisargadatta , " carolina112900 " <freyjartist@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , freyjartist@a... wrote: > > > What is being re-wired? > > > > > > What is " the brain " ? It's meat. Sentient meat. > > > > > > Information, memories, thoughts, perceptions, feelings, > > > associations are being processed and thought > > > to be stored and retrieved in specific centers in the brain, > > > > Well, I have read that memories are actually not stored in separate > > parts in the brain but more like a web throughout the whole brain. > > Remove a piece of the brain and it is not specific memories that > > dissapears. > > > > f. Hi AL, It may not be the memories that > disappear, per se, but if a part of the brain is > damaged somehow there can be impairment of function, > and the person has to re-learn how to > do certain things, like to walk, talk. Abilities such as walking and talking may correlate to certain areas in the brain, but that perhaps only mean that such abilities are mainly related to those areas in the brain, not solely related to those areas. See: http://www.acsa2000.net/bcngroup/jponkp/ > > > > But more importantly, memories are stored in the entire body! I can > > feel that directly in myself, so I don't need any science to tell me > > that or deny that. > > > > > f. Yes, that's cellular memory, AL. > Holistic practitioners work with that. > Science, and especially mathematics, > including the ever-expanding area of > biological mathematics, have developed a concise > language to describe what is going on, and > Quantum physics is the poetry of mathematics. I have heard that in quantum physics " infinities " appear in the math which are ignored in the calculations. Maybe space itself contains infinite " energy " . > > > > > > > > > and yet no actual information can be found there > > > in the recesses and grey matter of the brain, > > > or anywhere else. > > > > > > And yet, even if the information is nowhere to be found, > > > a heart cell, a brain cell, a liver cell > > > a muscle cell, all contain the same exact information > > > and genetic blueprint of the WHOLE, albeit with different > functions. > > > > > > Even if the pre-synaptic and post-synaptic sites of the neurons > > > in the brain > > > are alterable, is the synapse itself, the link where > > > the transmission takes place, > > > the nothingness of the space between > > > the neurons, and that information which jumps > > > from gate to gate, is it touchable? alterable? > > > > > > ~freyja > > > > Scientists have found " brain like " cells in many other parts of the > > body, for example in the stomach area (gut feeling). Isn't that > right? > > > > And the heart; I feel that my heart has a capability to sense things > > when it is open. Also, the heart is connected to every blood vessel > in > > the entire body. For example, the complex pattern of blood flow in > the > > brain that can be measured and presented as digital pictures must be > > the result of a very advanced regulating system of the blood > vessels. > > > > Consciousness is not merely information. Consciousness is what is > > aware of information. Maybe that which you cannot find between bits > of > > information between neurons is filled with consciousness. > > > > /AL > > f. And yet the synaptic cleft, the information > and the nothingness between neurons, can all be > explained mathematically, in the realm of the > irrational numbers, like pi. Irrational numbers > like pi can also explain the realm of other dimensions, > and parallel universes. > Alas, mathematics > is also a language, sophisticated as it is, > but still based on meaning, but it is very > fine and elegant language > which can best show the elegant order > that exists in the universe and the simple rules by > which it runs. > > All cells throughout the body have synapses, > and they attract the information, i.e. neuro > transmitters, because of the existing > magnetic field. So, > when Pete talks in terms of the brain being > re-wired, it is interesting to ponder just > what is going on. > > What is it that changes? Does only the brain change > and not the information? Is it that the receptor > sites for the information become less clogged --able > to perceive the information, as it is - 'true' reality; or > does the fact that the receptor sites are somehow > altered and more efficient impact and transform the information > somehow? I lean towards that kind of symbiosis, > where both are impacting each other at the same time. > > So, where do you think meaning comes from? > > What makes the human being different > from A.I.? Change in a person can probably happen in the entire body: the brain, the heart, other muscles and internal organs, in every cell... What makes the human being different from AI? Maybe nothing. A computer is on the surface very different from a human being. A human being is very different from a rock or a tree. But what is material stuff? What is an atom? Is an atom a separate thing? No. Nothing can be truly separate. There is only one existence. There must be _some_ relation between a separate " thing " and the rest of existence. If no thing can be truly separate from existence, what then is truly separate from empty space?! My idea is that matter is just curved space, just as gravity is just curved space, and that consciousness is an effect of curved space. So every " thing " is curved space; a human body, a rock, a computer, a tree, consciousness, a thought, an emotion... /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " carolina112900 " > <freyjartist@a...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > So, where do you think meaning comes from? > > > > What makes the human being different > > from A.I.? > > Change in a person can probably happen in the entire body: the brain, > the heart, other muscles and internal organs, in every cell... > > What makes the human being different from AI? Maybe nothing. A > computer is on the surface very different from a human being. A human > being is very different from a rock or a tree. But what is material > stuff? What is an atom? Is an atom a separate thing? No. Nothing can > be truly separate. There is only one existence. There must be _some_ > relation between a separate " thing " and the rest of existence. > > If no thing can be truly separate from existence, what then is truly > separate from empty space?! My idea is that matter is just curved > space, just as gravity is just curved space, and that consciousness is > an effect of curved space. So every " thing " is curved space; a human > body, a rock, a computer, a tree, consciousness, a thought, an emotion... > > /AL f. Well, space itself could also be considered a thing. It's all in how something is viewed - what concepts are being employed and in operation in a mind at any particular moment. Notions, or set of concepts, philosophies, sciences, can be entertained and made to work together or not. There is plenty of evidence for anything to agree with it or refute it. You may have heard of those experiments that prove that just observing something changes the whole nature of it....again, this is based on a whole set of certain givens that one would have to accept as fact, and AL, ultimately, I am really not a philosopher, nor a mathematician, and so much I do not know....and for me, " maybe the difference between dreaming and waking is not seen here (in the mind), but here (the Heart) " (from " A Beautiful Mind " ). It boils down to futility. in any case, it is nice to converse with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 19, 2005 Report Share Posted February 19, 2005 Nisargadatta , " carolina112900 " <freyjartist@a...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " carolina112900 " > > <freyjartist@a...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > So, where do you think meaning comes from? > > > > > > What makes the human being different > > > from A.I.? > > > > Change in a person can probably happen in the entire body: the > brain, > > the heart, other muscles and internal organs, in every cell... > > > > What makes the human being different from AI? Maybe nothing. A > > computer is on the surface very different from a human being. A > human > > being is very different from a rock or a tree. But what is material > > stuff? What is an atom? Is an atom a separate thing? No. Nothing can > > be truly separate. There is only one existence. There must be _some_ > > relation between a separate " thing " and the rest of existence. > > > > If no thing can be truly separate from existence, what then is truly > > separate from empty space?! My idea is that matter is just curved > > space, just as gravity is just curved space, and that consciousness > is > > an effect of curved space. So every " thing " is curved space; a human > > body, a rock, a computer, a tree, consciousness, a thought, an > emotion... > > > > /AL > > > f. Well, space itself could also be > considered a thing. It's all in how > something is viewed - what concepts > are being employed and in operation > in a mind at any particular moment. > > Notions, or set > of concepts, philosophies, > sciences, can be entertained > and made to work > together or not. There is plenty > of evidence for anything to agree > with it or refute it. > > You may have heard of those > experiments that prove that just > observing something changes the whole > nature of it....again, this is based on a > whole set of certain givens that one > would have to accept as fact, > and AL, ultimately, I am really not a philosopher, > nor a mathematician, and so much > I do not know....and for me, > " maybe the difference between dreaming and waking > is not seen here (in the mind), but here (the Heart) " > (from " A Beautiful Mind " ). It boils down to > futility. > > in any case, it is nice to > converse with you Yes, theories are ideas. Good theories correlate well with the world they are describing. Science is a good tool for extracting good theories. We need good tools, but we must remember that they are just tools. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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