Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Hi All, Lewis sezs Nisargadatta said: ~~~ " Use your mind. Remember. Observe. You are not different from others. Most of their experiences are valid for you too. Think clearly and deeply, go into the structure of your desires and their ramifications. They are a most important part of your mental and emotional make-up and powerfully affect your actions. Remember, you cannot abandon what you do not know. To go beyond yourself, you must know yourself. " ------------------------- J: If one were to ponder this, what is everyone's take on it? What might Ven.Niz be suggesting? How does one go about " knowing yourself " so as to abandon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 2/25/05 5:36:43 AM, insight@s... writes: > > > > ~~~ " Use your mind. Remember. Observe. You are not different from > > others. Most of their experiences are valid for you too. Think clearly > > and deeply, go into the structure of your desires and their > > ramifications. They are a most important part of your mental and > > emotional make-up and powerfully affect your actions. Remember, you > > cannot abandon what you do not know. To go beyond yourself, you must > > know yourself. " > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > J: If one were to ponder this, what is everyone's > > take on it? What might Ven.Niz be suggesting? > > How does one go about " knowing yourself " > > so as to abandon? > > > > > > > > > > P: Nice seeing you here, Dr. Short. He says go into the structure of > your desires. Why? Because your desires and fears determinate > what you believe, what you know, how you act, and what you remember > and forget about your story. > > Otherwise, the only thing you can know about yourself is,.... that you > CAN'T KNOW yourself. What if..........it means what it means?! All:One Kip Almazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Niz sez: " Use your mind. Remember. Observe. You are not different from others. Most of their experiences are valid for you too. Think clearly and deeply, go into the structure of your desires and their ramifications. They are a most important part of your mental and emotional make-up and powerfully affect your actions. Remember, you cannot abandon what you do not know. To go beyond yourself, you must know yourself. " P: Nice seeing you here, Dr. Short. J: So kind of you to say, Peteji. P: He says go into the structure of your desires. Why? Because your desires and fears determinate what you believe, what you know, how you act, and what you remember and forget about your story. - J: If one were to just sip, taste slowly and not gobble down, Niz says: " OBSERVE " - Observe what? The structures of your desires and their ramifications? Observe HOW? Assuming that he means we are to really KNOW these and not just fling aside like Ander's Hot Potatoe yuk yuk. Details about this observing? Thinking clearly and deeply? How do we observe? He says use our minds. How? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > > > In a message dated 2/25/05 5:36:43 AM, insight@s... writes: > > > > > > > ~~~ " Use your mind. Remember. Observe. You are not different from > > > others. Most of their experiences are valid for you too. Think > clearly > > > and deeply, go into the structure of your desires and their > > > ramifications. They are a most important part of your mental and > > > emotional make-up and powerfully affect your actions. Remember, > you > > > cannot abandon what you do not know. To go beyond yourself, you > must > > > know yourself. " > > > > > > > > > ------------------------- > > > > > > > > > J: If one were to ponder this, what is everyone's > > > take on it? What might Ven.Niz be suggesting? > > > How does one go about " knowing yourself " > > > so as to abandon? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > P: Nice seeing you here, Dr. Short. He says go into the structure > of > > your desires. Why? Because your desires and fears determinate > > what you believe, what you know, how you act, and what you remember > > and forget about your story. > > > > Otherwise, the only thing you can know about yourself is,.... that > you > > CAN'T KNOW yourself. > > > > What if..........it means what it means?! > > > All:One > Kip Almazy In the teachings of Advaiata Vedanta, there is Brahman the Supreme inexpressible and inexplicable ground of all existence, Atman which is Brahman manifested as the inner or spiritual world of all entities and atman which is a extension of Atman in human appearances. The atman is an immortal soul that is neither born nor dies and is a microcosm of the Atman that is of Brahman. Three but one. Brahman is the Divine SELF, the Atman is the SELF and the atman is a small self in all mortal human appearances. All are one. The lack of oneness is due to the atman, not realizing that it is the Atman because of the attachment and engrossment in this and that and the quagmire of the ego or impermanent illusory false self made up coagulation of memories and thoughts feelings and desires and habits. The goal is for the self, one's atman to realize that it is Atman or I AM. To do this it must abandon all the transitory and impermanent this and that. This could explain Nisagadatta's teachings on knowing one's self, his intense focus on realizing Who AM I, speaking about I AM, God and so forth and giving understandings, instructions and guidance on realizing that each self is I AM [THAT] by instructing the abandoning all things, this and that, that are not immovable, changeless, eternal. Nisargadatta goes further to say that one must go beyond the I AM and beyond the I AM is Brahman, the inexpressible and inexplicable ground of all existence and to go beyond that. It seems that the Buddhist teaching of no self or anatman is not part of Nisagadatta's teaching, is foreign to it and not contradictory of it if one experiences the teachings to see the oneness and if one takes into account the graded nature of his words where he moves from one level of experience to another; one moment he is talking of the ego, then atman, then Atman, then God and beyond these. As far not being able to know or not know self it depends on which one is being referred to; false self [ego], self (atman), SELF (Atman), Supreme SELF (Brahman) and beyond where there is no self. Any and all clarification of this understanding is welcome. Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Nisargadatta , Insight <insight@s...> wrote: > > > Niz sez: " Use your mind. Remember. Observe. You are not different from > others. Most of their experiences are valid for you too. Think clearly > and deeply, go into the structure of your desires and their > ramifications. They are a most important part of your mental and > emotional make-up and powerfully affect your actions. Remember, you > cannot abandon what you do not know. To go beyond yourself, you must > know yourself. " > > > P: Nice seeing you here, Dr. Short. > > J: So kind of you to say, Peteji. > > > P: He says go into the structure of > your desires. Why? Because your desires and fears determinate > what you believe, what you know, how you act, and what you remember > and forget about your story. > > - > > > > J: If one were to just sip, taste slowly and not gobble down, > Niz says: " OBSERVE " - > > Observe what? The structures of your desires and their ramifications? > > Observe HOW? Assuming that he means we are to really KNOW these and > not just fling aside like Ander's Hot Potatoe yuk yuk. > > Details about this observing? > Thinking clearly and deeply? > How do we observe? > He says use our minds. > How? Hi Joyce, There seem to be many ways to observe and each method or type of observing depends on what the condition of each appearance is. For a one who still has such arisings in consciousness in great quantities, continuously coming and going or of few types that have a dominating impact, a simple method is to go about the day as one usually does, doing whatever is done and simply noticing what arises; feelings, thoughts, desires, imaginings, images, memories and so forth. Letting them come and go as it happens. If one of these continues to arise over the others, a simple " turning " to it, a " looking " or " noticing " at it will reveal it and it may grow or emerge into something more, starting as a tip of an iceberg and gradually enlarging in revealing more and more of what it is or it may simply recede slowly or dash away, replaced by another. There can be a noting of them in any way that that is easy or pleasant such as when this or that type of feelings, thoughts, desires, imaginings, images, memories arises and in what way they do they recede or behave or direct or what feelings and thoughts emerge, and how the body feels during all of this and how one's consciousness is affected as one does this or that, in relation to others or to things. Does it interefere with clarity? Does it raise an unpleasant or pleasant sensations? and so on. Eventually for the one with great qunatities of these appearances some understanding of how and when they appear will emerge and how to let them pass and how to understand them. It seems that they cannot be controlled and when control is attempted there is " falling into it " a loss of observing and a confusion. There are methods for those who have particular types of inner experiences and for those who have little or none of these. But it seems that specific cases would need to spoken about, personal experiences or if one does not prefer that to speak generally and abstractly about as is done above. Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 In a message dated 2/25/05 9:20:44 AM, kipalmazy writes: > P: Nice seeing you here, Dr. Short. He says go into the structure > of > > your desires. Why? Because your desires and fears determinate > > what you believe, what you know, how you act, and what you remember > > and forget about your story. > > > > Otherwise, the only thing you can know about yourself is,.... that > you > > CAN'T KNOW yourself. > > > > What if..........it means what it means?! > > > All:One > Kip Almazy > > > P: Sure, Kip, it means what it means, > and the reader, as usual, provides the meaning. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.