Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Niz sez: " Use your mind. Remember. Observe. You are not different from others. Most of their experiences are valid for you too. Think clearly and deeply, go into the structure of your desires and their ramifications. They are a most important part of your mental and emotional make-up and powerfully affect your actions. Remember, you cannot abandon what you do not know. To go beyond yourself, you must know yourself. " ---------------------------- Hi Lewis, Lewis: There seem to be many ways to observe and each method or type of observing depends on what the condition of each appearance is. For a one who still has such arisings in consciousness Joyce: Are you imagining such a one who still has such arisings in consciousness or saying such a one like yourself? Lewis: There are methods for those who have particular types of inner experiences and for those who have little or none of these. But it seems that specific cases would need to spoken about, personal experiences or if one does not prefer that to speak generally and abstractly about as is done above. Joyce: Objects appearing are objects appearing whether many or few. I don't think Niz's quote is abstract but it is a very general instruction. So, what specific, non-abstract/as-you-experience -it observation can you give as an example. As Niz says, == " we cannot abandon what we do not know " . He does seem like a very practical gentleman. He says, in the site you posted, == " as long as you are intensely mindful of yourself, the accumulated obstacles to self-knowledge are bound to be swept away. " This is less general - he says, " remember " , " observe " , " know yourself correctly " , " based on direct experience and not scriptural reference nor book knowledge " . Thus, as applied to your own situation, how do you do this? You did say once awhile ago that asking " how " was a good way to tackle something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 25, 2005 Report Share Posted February 25, 2005 Insight wrote: > > Niz sez: " Use your mind. Remember. Observe. You are not different from > others. Most of their experiences are valid for you too. Think clearly > and deeply, go into the structure of your desires and their > ramifications. They are a most important part of your mental and > emotional make-up and powerfully affect your actions. Remember, you > cannot abandon what you do not know. To go beyond yourself, you must > know yourself. " > > ---------------------------- > > > > Hi Lewis, > > Lewis: There seem to be many ways to observe and each method > or type of observing depends on what the condition of each > appearance is. > > For a one who still has such arisings in consciousness > > > Joyce: Are you imagining such a one who still has such > arisings in consciousness or saying such a one > like yourself? Imagining. > > > Lewis: There are methods for those who have particular types of inner > experiences and for those who have little or none of these. But it > seems that specific cases would need to spoken about, personal > experiences or if one does not prefer that to speak generally and > abstractly about as is done above. > > > Joyce: Objects appearing are objects appearing whether many > or few. I don't think Niz's quote is abstract but it is a very general > instruction. So, what specific, non-abstract/as-you-experience > -it observation can you give as an example. As Niz says, > > > == " we cannot abandon what we > do not know " . > > He does seem like a very practical gentleman. He says, > in the site you posted, > > > == " as long as you are intensely mindful of yourself, > the accumulated obstacles to self-knowledge are bound > to be swept away. " > > > This is less general - he says, " remember " , > " observe " , " know yourself correctly " , " based on direct > experience and not scriptural reference nor book > knowledge " . > > > Thus, as applied to your own situation, how do you > do this? You did say once awhile ago that > asking " how " was a good way to tackle something. > A simple example from my experience happened when I was in my 20's. If I dropped a piece of paper on the street, any bit of trash, I would pick it up without thinking. No matter how much of a rush I was in, If I dropped something I would picked it up, I would run back and pick it up. I noticed that I did this mindlessly, and was forced to do this and if I didn't very uncomfortable feelings and thoughts were experienced as if people were watching me and if there would be a penalty if I failed to pick it up. It was a habit born of social conditioning, don't be a litterbug and the examples of others prominent in my early years. One day, I decided not to pick up something I dropped. I walked away and the same thoughts and feelings flooded me to pick up the paper, that I must pick up the paper, that it must be picked up. I found this curious, because there was no reason provided just an intense unrelenting pressure to go back and pick it up. I never realized how conditioned I was in this simple matter. I did not pick it up. I walked away and watched how these thoughts and feeling demanded me to act. I allowed the feelings and thoughts to run their course and it ended like a ball of twine unraveled where I could see the whole conditioning from end to end. And in the seeing it, it dropped away. I could drop a piece of paper and to pick it up or not was left open. From then I picked up dropped paper or other trash as it is and not by force of conditioning driven by fear and pressure to conform. The picking up my litter is now done in the free. Why pick it up? It is interesting. It seems that it is natural to pick it up. No reason seems necessary, though many seem available, and it is done without feeling forced and with a sense of pleasantness. This simple experience was extended to all behaviors. From that simple experience, I watched to see what was conditioned and not free and practiced in this to uncover hidden conditionings so that I could abandon what I did not know. I do the same here. The interaction here works in the same way to uncover hidden views, attachments and in doing the free is expanded. It reveals that which I could not know otherwise, that is, by going on in the usual manner doing the same with same every day. Since there is always silence and quiet how can I know what is within the appearance. I venture to new experiences of many kinds, unpleasant or pleasant, easy and difficult and it reveals what was not known and allows the abandonment of that which was unseen and of no use and it reveals also new things and makes and drops capabilities and incapabilities. Here on these lists there is particular type of experience I had not undergone, prior. Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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