Guest guest Posted March 9, 2005 Report Share Posted March 9, 2005 If you ask someone: " When is your awareness? " , then he or she - if taking the question seriously - may answer: " My awareness is now, not then tomorrow or yesterday " . Then you can ask: " So your awareness is now, but when is my awareness? " Is your now the same as my now in time? Time is only relative, they say. But is it? What is my now relative to? /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > If you ask someone: " When is your awareness? " , then he or she - if > taking the question seriously - may answer: " My awareness is now, not > then tomorrow or yesterday " . > > Then you can ask: " So your awareness is now, but when is my awareness? " > > Is your now the same as my now in time? Time is only relative, they > say. But is it? What is my now relative to? > > /AL Your imagination. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Hi AL, Accept the ferocity of the human animal! Words are only a distraction, a by-pass in the way you tend to use them. The essential is covert in your speech. Find out what full speech is, true speech. Don't hide yourself behind yourself. Truth has nothing to do with, plausibility, rationality, common sense nor logic. Truth is interwoven with all this, but has no purpose and is completely meaningless. True speech is what you encounter in a Guru. It comprehends no magnificence nor omniescience. It is actually your speech, but you are unable to hear it. All:One Kip Almazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Anders, a tip: Next time you get a tooth extracted then have it done without a narcotic injection. Benefits: You instatntly will know where your awarenes is. Bonus: You instantly no longer are interested in other people's assumptions where awarenes could be. Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > If you ask someone: " When is your awareness? " , then he or she - if > taking the question seriously - may answer: " My awareness is now, not > then tomorrow or yesterday " . > > Then you can ask: " So your awareness is now, but when is my awareness? " > > Is your now the same as my now in time? Time is only relative, they > say. But is it? What is my now relative to? > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > If you ask someone: " When is your awareness? " , then he or she - if > > taking the question seriously - may answer: " My awareness is now, not > > then tomorrow or yesterday " . > > > > Then you can ask: " So your awareness is now, but when is my awareness? " > > > > Is your now the same as my now in time? Time is only relative, they > > say. But is it? What is my now relative to? > > > > /AL Your imagination. > > > > > toombaru Does that include all thinking, or only that part of thinking we usually call imagination? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> wrote: > > Hi AL, > > Accept the ferocity of the human animal! Words are only a > distraction, a by-pass in the way you tend to use them. The essential > is covert in your speech. Find out what full speech is, true speech. > Don't hide yourself behind yourself. Truth has nothing to do with, > plausibility, rationality, common sense nor logic. Truth is > interwoven with all this, but has no purpose and is completely > meaningless. True speech is what you encounter in a Guru. It > comprehends no magnificence nor omniescience. It is actually your > speech, but you are unable to hear it. > > > All:One > Kip Almazy Hi Kip, I don't understand what is the difference between full speech and ordinary speech. Vernon Howard talked about ordinary people being caught in double-thinking. I believe what he meant by double-thinking is thinking about me in relation to the world instead of directly think about the world and me as a seamless process. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > > > Anders, a tip: > > Next time you get a tooth extracted then have it done without a > narcotic injection. > > Benefits: > You instatntly will know where your awarenes is. > > Bonus: > You instantly no longer are interested in other people's assumptions > where awarenes could be. > > Werner I am curious to know if awareness (consciousness, the sense of being aware) is local in some form, located as a result of the brain and physical body, or if awareness really is non-local and seamlessly connected with everything else. Another question is if my awareness is only in me, and that other people have separate awareness, or if there is only one awareness. " ...then you will know yourself to be your neighbour... ...then you will know yourself as the One Life before it becomes form... " -- Eckhart Tolle /AL > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > If you ask someone: " When is your awareness? " , then he or she - if > > taking the question seriously - may answer: " My awareness is now, > not > > then tomorrow or yesterday " . > > > > Then you can ask: " So your awareness is now, but when is my > awareness? " > > > > Is your now the same as my now in time? Time is only relative, they > > say. But is it? What is my now relative to? > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Werner: Anders, when it comes to awareness, you are a damn liar. When you are telling about your being curious then this is a lie, you are not curious at at all. Pete and me and others too told you already a dozend and more of times that awareness is just a function of the brain and not some glorious godly mystery everywhere in the universe. ----------------- Joyce: Intriguing. You're saying that you and Pete say (over and over again) that awareness is just a function of the brain. And those dolts who do not agree with your view are hopeless dreamers, even liars. In your view this is THE Absolute Truth. Do you have proof for your view? Can it be verified? Ques: What are the consequences of your view? How does your view lead to liberation? Sri Nisargadatta does seem quite firm when he says " you are not the body, you are knowledge only " , or says that Beingness expresses itself through mind, but I've never read him saying anything about brain functions, this doesn't seem to matter one way or the other. He does mention the five elements which are about the furthest one can go with analysis and deconstruction. He also says that as long as you identify with body-mind you are conditioned. And " when you cling to body-mind you become separate from the manifest world and you see different entities. In that state you will have all kinds of desires to improve yourself or somebody else. " But then he wasn't a modern, scientific man so probably you and Pete and right. Joyce You, Anders are only interested to find proof for your dream and hope that you will survive as awareness. You don't listen when others are telling a different view than that you are expecting and hoping for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Anders, When it comes to awareness, you are a damn liar. When you are telling about your being curious then this is a lie, you are not curious at at all. Pete and me and others too told you already a dozend and more of times that awareness is just a function of the brain and not some glorious godly mystery everywhere in the universe. You, Anders are only interested to find proof for your dream and hope that you will survive as awareness. You don't listen when others are telling a different view than that you are expecting and hoping for. How I see you: You are not enquiring, Anders - you are just chasing the dreams and beliefs of your childhood getting fulfilled. Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Anders, a tip: > > > > Next time you get a tooth extracted then have it done without a > > narcotic injection. > > > > Benefits: > > You instatntly will know where your awarenes is. > > > > Bonus: > > You instantly no longer are interested in other people's assumptions > > where awarenes could be. > > > > Werner > > I am curious to know if awareness (consciousness, the sense of being > aware) is local in some form, located as a result of the brain and > physical body, or if awareness really is non-local and seamlessly > connected with everything else. Another question is if my awareness is > only in me, and that other people have separate awareness, or if there > is only one awareness. > > " ...then you will know yourself to be your neighbour... ...then you > will know yourself as the One Life before it becomes form... " -- > Eckhart Tolle > > /AL > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > If you ask someone: " When is your awareness? " , then he or she - if > > > taking the question seriously - may answer: " My awareness is now, > > not > > > then tomorrow or yesterday " . > > > > > > Then you can ask: " So your awareness is now, but when is my > > awareness? " > > > > > > Is your now the same as my now in time? Time is only relative, they > > > say. But is it? What is my now relative to? > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Hidy Werner, Werner: Proof it, proof it, proof iz. The usual demand of opposition, Joyce: You got me. I tend to be skeptical of folks who tell me I should just 'believe' what they tell me. I was just trying to find'a way to experience your vivid fantasies. Werner: maybe my harsh words to Ander made you a bit upset ? Joyce: It seems a tad extreme to call those who disagree with you " liars " . Werner: You asked: What are the consequences of your view? How does your view lead to liberation? Answer:There is no liberation. There is only thought thinking " I wanna be free " . Besides thought believing in capitivity there is none. Same with separation. You cannot overcome separation because there is none - its just another belief that you are separated. Joyce: That's tad new agey isn't it. But it's simple thought it would sell. You could repeat over and over like a mantra. So while you say there is no 'liberation " you then suggest liberation of thought is possible. You also suggest that liberation from " beliefs " is possible - although there is one belief re: brain thingys you seem quite attached to; quite captive and capitvated. Sounds like you just want to find security in your beliefs by trying to convince others of their truth. But if its all just brain function, how can anything be possible. As the brain conditioning decrees - so it is. Brain turns to dust and that's that. Kind of turnip philosophy. Werner: You ended with: But then he (Niz) wasn't a modern, scientific man so probably you and Pete and right. Thats it, Joyce. Why sticking till doom's day to the view that the earth is flat ? To see it as a globe won't deny the existence of the earth itself. Joyce: Ahhh HAH! So Sri Niz wasn't a liar, just an old fashioned flat earther and his message outdated. Call me simple minded but this list has somethingto do with Sri Nisargadatta. Sri Niz doesn't sell dogmas by the river, just says " observe " . Ive found some wanderful tips on what he says about " touch " - which I was going to post here but alas, it has to do with olde fashioned observation. Everything he says amounts to " Just be " . Now that IS difficult. But why? Why don't you and Pete also set up a list to do with Truth for the Modern Man and then folks here could plod along with pondering crazy olde Niz and his lies without annoying you. You could read what Michael said but you'd have to crank up that brain to think and you have no control over it. Maybe he could post in simple language and leave out the olde fashioned stuff. Come to think of it, the notion of the brain as the center of the universe is pretty olde fashioned physics. Ya gotta get up to date, dude. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Hi Joyce, Proof it, proof it, proof iz. The usual demand of opposition, maybe my harsh words to Ander made you a bit upset ? You asked: What are the consequences of your view? How does your view lead to liberation? Answer: There is no liberation. There is only thought thinking " I wanna be free " . Besides thought believing in capitivity there is none. Same with separation. You cannot overcome separation because there is none - its just another belief that you are separated. You ended with: But then he (Niz) wasn't a modern, scientific man so probably you and Pete and right. Thats it, Joyce. Why sticking till doom's day to the view that the earth is flat ? To see it as a globe won't deny the existence of the earth itself. Werner Nisargadatta , Insight <insight@s...> wrote: > > > > Werner: Anders, when it comes to awareness, you are a damn liar. > > When you are telling about your being curious then this is a lie, you > are not curious at at all. Pete and me and others too told you > already a dozend and more of times that awareness is just a function > of the brain and not some glorious godly mystery everywhere in the > universe. > > ----------------- > > > Joyce: Intriguing. You're saying that you and Pete > say (over and over again) that awareness is just > a function of the brain. And those dolts who do > not agree with your view are hopeless dreamers, even > liars. In your view this is THE Absolute Truth. Do you > have proof for your view? Can it be verified? > > > Ques: What are the consequences of your view? How does > your view lead to liberation? > > Sri Nisargadatta does seem quite firm when he says > " you are not the body, you are knowledge only " , or > says that Beingness expresses itself through mind, but > I've never read him saying anything about brain > functions, this doesn't seem to matter > one way or the other. He does mention the five > elements which are about the furthest one can go > with analysis and deconstruction. He also says that > as long as you identify with body-mind you are conditioned. > And " when you cling to body-mind you become separate > from the manifest world and you see different > entities. In that state you will have all kinds > of desires to improve yourself or somebody else. " > > But then he wasn't a modern, scientific man so > probably you and Pete and right. > > > Joyce > > > > > You, Anders are only interested to find proof for your dream and hope > that you will survive as awareness. You don't listen when others are > telling a different view than that you are expecting and hoping for. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , Insight <insight@s...> wrote: > > > > > Joyce: Ahhh HAH! So Sri Niz wasn't a liar, just an old fashioned > flat earther and his message outdated. Call me simple minded but > this list has somethingto do with Sri Nisargadatta. Sri Niz > doesn't sell dogmas by the river, just says " observe " . > Ive found some wanderful tips on what he says > about " touch " - which I was going to post here but alas, it has to > do with olde fashioned observation. Everything he says amounts > to " Just be " . Now that IS difficult. But why? Please do post the tips you've found re 'touch'. Re turnip philosophy....if brain creates the world, as it may, what then keeps arising brains? diana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > If you ask someone: " When is your awareness? " , then he or she - if > > > taking the question seriously - may answer: " My awareness is now, not > > > then tomorrow or yesterday " . > > > > > > Then you can ask: " So your awareness is now, but when is my > awareness? " > > > > > > Is your now the same as my now in time? Time is only relative, they > > > say. But is it? What is my now relative to? > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your imagination. > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Does that include all thinking, or only that part of thinking we > usually call imagination? Mind cannot find reality within its own limited contents........ especially when: " mind " and " reality " are merely some of those contents.......as are " thinking " and " imagination " . toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Werner:I don't quite see what you are at. Do you wanna have a fight ? Joyce: Nope. I just asked you some questions. Werner: Sorry, I am not good in fighting, Joyce: No need to get defensive because you can't handle questions. Werner: so I would suggest knock your head several times against your room's wall, then you will have troubles enough. Joyce: This is what the " brain theory " fellows do when they can't handle something? I know Pete is against any kind of thinking, and Niz is too olde fashioned so you seem a bit stuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " diana_53231 " <diana_53231> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Insight <insight@s...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Joyce: Ahhh HAH! So Sri Niz wasn't a liar, just an old fashioned > > flat earther and his message outdated. Call me simple minded but > > this list has somethingto do with Sri Nisargadatta. Sri Niz > > doesn't sell dogmas by the river, just says " observe " . > > Ive found some wanderful tips on what he says > > about " touch " - which I was going to post here but alas, it has to > > do with olde fashioned observation. Everything he says amounts > > to " Just be " . Now that IS difficult. But why? > > > Please do post the tips you've found re 'touch'. > > Re turnip philosophy....if brain creates the world, > as it may, what then keeps arising brains? > > diana Brain does not create the world.....any more then a radio creates the music. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Oh Joye, I don't quite see what you are at. Do you wanna have a fight ? Sorry, I am not good in fighting, so I would suggest knock your head several times against your room's wall, then you will have troubles enough. Werner Nisargadatta , Insight <insight@s...> wrote: > > > Hidy Werner, > > > Werner: Proof it, proof it, proof iz. The usual demand of opposition, > > Joyce: You got me. I tend to be skeptical > of folks who tell me I should just 'believe' > what they tell me. I was just trying to find'a way to experience > your vivid fantasies. > > > Werner: maybe my harsh words to Ander made you a bit upset ? > > > Joyce: It seems a tad extreme to call those who disagree > with you " liars " . > > > Werner: You asked: What are the consequences of your view? > How does your view lead to liberation? > > Answer:There is no liberation. There is only thought thinking " I wanna be > free " . Besides thought believing in capitivity there is none. Same > with separation. You cannot overcome separation because there is > none - its just another belief that you are separated. > > > Joyce: That's tad new agey isn't it. But it's > simple thought it would sell. You could repeat over and > over like a mantra. So while you say there is no 'liberation " > you then suggest liberation of thought is possible. > You also suggest that liberation from " beliefs " > is possible - although there is one belief re: brain > thingys you seem quite attached to; quite captive > and capitvated. Sounds like you just want > to find security in your beliefs by trying > to convince others of their truth. > > But if its all just brain function, how can anything > be possible. As the brain conditioning decrees - > so it is. Brain turns to dust and that's that. > Kind of turnip philosophy. > > > Werner: You ended with: But then he (Niz) wasn't a modern, scientific > man so probably you and Pete and right. > > Thats it, Joyce. Why sticking till doom's day to the view that the > earth is flat ? To see it as a globe won't deny the existence of the > earth itself. > > > Joyce: Ahhh HAH! So Sri Niz wasn't a liar, just an old fashioned > flat earther and his message outdated. Call me simple minded but > this list has somethingto do with Sri Nisargadatta. Sri Niz > doesn't sell dogmas by the river, just says " observe " . > Ive found some wanderful tips on what he says > about " touch " - which I was going to post here but alas, it has to > do with olde fashioned observation. Everything he says amounts > to " Just be " . Now that IS difficult. But why? > > > Why don't you and Pete also set up a list to do with Truth for the > Modern Man and then folks here could plod along with pondering crazy > olde Niz and his lies without annoying you. > > > You could read what Michael said but you'd have > to crank up that brain to think and you have no > control over it. Maybe he could post in simple > language and leave out the olde fashioned stuff. > > Come to think of it, the notion of the brain > as the center of the universe is pretty olde > fashioned physics. Ya gotta get up to date, dude. > > > :-) > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Anders, > > When it comes to awareness, you are a damn liar. > > When you are telling about your being curious then this is a lie, you > are not curious at at all. Pete and me and others too told you > already a dozend and more of times that awareness is just a function > of the brain and not some glorious godly mystery everywhere in the > universe. > > You, Anders are only interested to find proof for your dream and hope > that you will survive as awareness. You don't listen when others are > telling a different view than that you are expecting and hoping for. > > How I see you: > You are not enquiring, Anders - you are just chasing the dreams and > beliefs of your childhood getting fulfilled. > > Werner devi: hi werner, i would like to know if you can come close to speaking of the Supreme that nizargatdatta speaks of, and if you have realized the Self in nirvikalpa samadi that ramana maharshi and half the other realizers speaks of? you seem to be so sure that awareness is only a function of the brain and i find this hard to believe. i was sure that the brain in only the physical manifestion of the mind in where awareness is co-exist, and that when the astral leaves the body/brain it, the awareness still funtions, being aware of things (beings, places)on an other dimension.... for me the only proof that you may be right is if you have total Self- knowledge....do you? i really want to know if awareness dies when the brain dies? > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Anders, a tip: > > > > > > Next time you get a tooth extracted then have it done without a > > > narcotic injection. > > > > > > Benefits: > > > You instatntly will know where your awarenes is. > > > > > > Bonus: > > > You instantly no longer are interested in other people's > assumptions > > > where awarenes could be. > > > > > > Werner > > > > I am curious to know if awareness (consciousness, the sense of being > > aware) is local in some form, located as a result of the brain and > > physical body, or if awareness really is non-local and seamlessly > > connected with everything else. Another question is if my awareness > is > > only in me, and that other people have separate awareness, or if > there > > is only one awareness. > > > > " ...then you will know yourself to be your neighbour... ...then you > > will know yourself as the One Life before it becomes form... " -- > > Eckhart Tolle > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > If you ask someone: " When is your awareness? " , then he or she - > if > > > > taking the question seriously - may answer: " My awareness is > now, > > > not > > > > then tomorrow or yesterday " . > > > > > > > > Then you can ask: " So your awareness is now, but when is my > > > awareness? " > > > > > > > > Is your now the same as my now in time? Time is only relative, > they > > > > say. But is it? What is my now relative to? > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > >Anders, a tip: > >Next time you get a tooth extracted then have it done without a >narcotic injection. > >Benefits: >You instatntly will know where your awarenes is. > >Bonus: >You instantly no longer are interested in other people's assumptions >where awarenes could be. > >Werner Hi Werner, did you ever have a tooth extracted without narcose injection? What was your experience about when and where awareness is? I had at least similar experiences, and I still recall them vividly, especially since the nerve in the tooth was still alife. But I would be interested what you want to indicate with your example. Greetings Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Hi Stefan, This tooth extraction thingy I told to Anders and not to you. So for me it makes only sense in connection with Anders and therefore please let this question pass, thank you. Werner Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > >Anders, a tip: > > > >Next time you get a tooth extracted then have it done without a > >narcotic injection. > > > >Benefits: > >You instatntly will know where your awarenes is. > > > >Bonus: > >You instantly no longer are interested in other people's assumptions > > >where awarenes could be. > > > >Werner > > Hi Werner, > > did you ever have a tooth extracted without narcose injection? What > was your experience about when and where awareness is? > > I had at least similar experiences, and I still recall them vividly, > especially since the nerve in the tooth was still alife. But I would > be interested what you want to indicate with your example. > > Greetings > Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: >This tooth extraction thingy I told to Anders and not to you. So for me it makes only sense in connection with Anders and therefore please >let this question pass, thank you. Dont be thankful to me because I will not let this question pass. It was not in a private email, so I have read it and now it has become my own question. So simple was it: " What was/is your experience about when and where awareness is? " (Talking about experience in a situation like extreme pain.) And now you say this makes only sense for Anders. You are avoiding the answer with an obviously cheap excuse. Maybe you have no answer, this is not a shame. Dont be so shy. Remember the poem I have send you? There is always a new path, a new way, a new step... Greetings Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Right Stefan, 1. I was sending my reply to Anders in an open and not private list. 2. I do and will avoid my answer also in this non private list. 3. And if you can't accept my thank you then it is your problem. 4. I have not the least interest to hurt you or to reject you or not to accept you but I JUST DO NOT WANT TO ANSWER. Werner Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > >This tooth extraction thingy I told to Anders and not to you. So for > me it makes only sense in connection with Anders and therefore please > >let this question pass, thank you. > > Dont be thankful to me because I will not let this question pass. It > was not in a private email, so I have read it and now it has become my > own question. > > So simple was it: > " What was/is your experience about when and where awareness is? " > (Talking about experience in a situation like extreme pain.) > > And now you say this makes only sense for Anders. You are avoiding the > answer with an obviously cheap excuse. Maybe you have no answer, this > is not a shame. Dont be so shy. Remember the poem I have send you? > There is always a new path, a new way, a new step... > > Greetings > Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: >3. And if you can't accept my thank you then it is your problem. No problem for me. I just wanted to give you the friendly advice not to thank me for a favour that I have not given nor am I willing to give. >4. I have not the least interest to hurt you or to reject you or not >to accept you but I JUST DO NOT WANT TO ANSWER. I hope very much that you dont have such interests, otherwise you would have to explain what has caused them. Yes, I feel a little disturbed and confused and I would suggest that you carry such private discourses to the private domain if you do not want any public response. This is not meant as a censoring, just to avoid that bad feelings come up when someone replies to one of your postings which you consider to be private. As far as the rest is concerned, you know the saying: " no answer is also an answer " . Just now I have read your other postings of today and I feel it is interesting that on the same day you have vehemently maintained your idea that awareness is merely a function of the brain. Maybe you are affraid now that I could prove that awareness is the function of a tooth?! (Haha, this was a joke, of course :-)) About my experiences at the dentist. I had allowed to be treated without narcosis. I was drilled close to the root nerve. The pain was so sudden and so extreme that it was like an explosion. The instant awareness was at my tooth. I was only tooth. As the treatment continued the pain changed and became like a solid thing in my jaw and thus kind of objectified and less threatening. But still, after the treatment I was shaking at my whole body. Greetings Stefan > Werner > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > >This tooth extraction thingy I told to Anders and not to you. So > for > > me it makes only sense in connection with Anders and therefore > please > > >let this question pass, thank you. > > > > Dont be thankful to me because I will not let this question pass. It > > was not in a private email, so I have read it and now it has become > my > > own question. > > > > So simple was it: > > " What was/is your experience about when and where awareness is? " > > (Talking about experience in a situation like extreme pain.) > > > > And now you say this makes only sense for Anders. You are avoiding > the > > answer with an obviously cheap excuse. Maybe you have no answer, > this > > is not a shame. Dont be so shy. Remember the poem I have send you? > > There is always a new path, a new way, a new step... > > > > Greetings > > Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Have attended NDE group meetings. It is said that some who had an NDE and were declared brain-dead, still had " other realm " experiences. Also, Joyce said N's teaching could be summerized as Just be. According to Ramesh Balsekar, the teaching can be summerized, " Just BE, by letting the 'me' drop off " . How many me's are out there? Richard devianandi <polansky wrote: Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Anders, > > When it comes to awareness, you are a damn liar. > > When you are telling about your being curious then this is a lie, you > are not curious at at all. Pete and me and others too told you > already a dozend and more of times that awareness is just a function > of the brain and not some glorious godly mystery everywhere in the > universe. > > You, Anders are only interested to find proof for your dream and hope > that you will survive as awareness. You don't listen when others are > telling a different view than that you are expecting and hoping for. > > How I see you: > You are not enquiring, Anders - you are just chasing the dreams and > beliefs of your childhood getting fulfilled. > > Werner devi: hi werner, i would like to know if you can come close to speaking of the Supreme that nizargatdatta speaks of, and if you have realized the Self in nirvikalpa samadi that ramana maharshi and half the other realizers speaks of? you seem to be so sure that awareness is only a function of the brain and i find this hard to believe. i was sure that the brain in only the physical manifestion of the mind in where awareness is co-exist, and that when the astral leaves the body/brain it, the awareness still funtions, being aware of things (beings, places)on an other dimension.... for me the only proof that you may be right is if you have total Self- knowledge....do you? i really want to know if awareness dies when the brain dies? > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Anders, a tip: > > > > > > Next time you get a tooth extracted then have it done without a > > > narcotic injection. > > > > > > Benefits: > > > You instatntly will know where your awarenes is. > > > > > > Bonus: > > > You instantly no longer are interested in other people's > assumptions > > > where awarenes could be. > > > > > > Werner > > > > I am curious to know if awareness (consciousness, the sense of being > > aware) is local in some form, located as a result of the brain and > > physical body, or if awareness really is non-local and seamlessly > > connected with everything else. Another question is if my awareness > is > > only in me, and that other people have separate awareness, or if > there > > is only one awareness. > > > > " ...then you will know yourself to be your neighbour... ...then you > > will know yourself as the One Life before it becomes form... " -- > > Eckhart Tolle > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > If you ask someone: " When is your awareness? " , then he or she - > if > > > > taking the question seriously - may answer: " My awareness is > now, > > > not > > > > then tomorrow or yesterday " . > > > > > > > > Then you can ask: " So your awareness is now, but when is my > > > awareness? " > > > > > > > > Is your now the same as my now in time? Time is only relative, > they > > > > say. But is it? What is my now relative to? > > > > > > > > /AL ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2005 Report Share Posted March 10, 2005 Hi Richard, Have you ever tried for a longer time " just to be " ? Or letting drop away the " me " ? Who is the me and who is the dropper ? How many MEs are out there ? Werner Nisargadatta , Richard <richarkar> wrote: > Have attended NDE group meetings. It is said that some who had an NDE and were declared brain-dead, still had " other realm " experiences. > > Also, Joyce said N's teaching could be summerized as Just be. According to Ramesh Balsekar, the teaching can be summerized, " Just BE, by letting the 'me' drop off " . How many me's are out there? > Richard > > devianandi <polansky@m...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > > Anders, > > > > When it comes to awareness, you are a damn liar. > > > > When you are telling about your being curious then this is a lie, > you > > are not curious at at all. Pete and me and others too told you > > already a dozend and more of times that awareness is just a function > > of the brain and not some glorious godly mystery everywhere in the > > universe. > > > > You, Anders are only interested to find proof for your dream and > hope > > that you will survive as awareness. You don't listen when others are > > telling a different view than that you are expecting and hoping for. > > > > How I see you: > > You are not enquiring, Anders - you are just chasing the dreams and > > beliefs of your childhood getting fulfilled. > > > > Werner > > devi: hi werner, i would like to know if you can come close to > speaking of the Supreme that nizargatdatta speaks of, and if you have > realized the Self in nirvikalpa samadi that ramana maharshi and half > the other realizers speaks of? > > you seem to be so sure that awareness is only a function of the brain > and i find this hard to believe. i was sure that the brain in only > the physical manifestion of the mind in where awareness is co- exist, > and that when the astral leaves the body/brain it, the awareness > still funtions, being aware of things (beings, places)on an other > dimension.... > > for me the only proof that you may be right is if you have total Self- > knowledge....do you? > > i really want to know if awareness dies when the brain dies? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anders, a tip: > > > > > > > > Next time you get a tooth extracted then have it done without a > > > > narcotic injection. > > > > > > > > Benefits: > > > > You instatntly will know where your awarenes is. > > > > > > > > Bonus: > > > > You instantly no longer are interested in other people's > > assumptions > > > > where awarenes could be. > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > I am curious to know if awareness (consciousness, the sense of > being > > > aware) is local in some form, located as a result of the brain and > > > physical body, or if awareness really is non-local and seamlessly > > > connected with everything else. Another question is if my > awareness > > is > > > only in me, and that other people have separate awareness, or if > > there > > > is only one awareness. > > > > > > " ...then you will know yourself to be your neighbour... ...then > you > > > will know yourself as the One Life before it becomes form... " -- > > > Eckhart Tolle > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > If you ask someone: " When is your awareness? " , then he or > she - > > if > > > > > taking the question seriously - may answer: " My awareness is > > now, > > > > not > > > > > then tomorrow or yesterday " . > > > > > > > > > > Then you can ask: " So your awareness is now, but when is my > > > > awareness? " > > > > > > > > > > Is your now the same as my now in time? Time is only > relative, > > they > > > > > say. But is it? What is my now relative to? > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > ** > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: > > /mygroups?edit=1 > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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