Guest guest Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 The world you see around you is you. You are connected to it. If you were not connected to it, you would not see it. Go figure! ;.) /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > The world you see around you is you. and it's a pretty shitty one, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > The world you see around you is you. You are connected to it. If you > were not connected to it, you would not see it. Go figure! ;.) > > /AL When, through introspection, the self cannot find its self.....it envisions itself as " the all " ... That.....I'm afraid....is only another ...more elaborate grandiosity. Just another futile attempt to attach to a personal identity...albeit a little vaster then before. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 toombaru2004 <cptc wrote: Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > The world you see around you is you. You are connected to it. If you > were not connected to it, you would not see it. Go figure! ;.) > > /AL When, through introspection, the self cannot find its self.....it envisions itself as " the all " ... That.....I'm afraid....is only another ...more elaborate grandiosity. Just another futile attempt to attach to a personal identity...albeit a little vaster then before. toombaru The above is unfortunately probably true of most egoji's (as Sunyata called them). But for a few, the personal is replaced by the impersonal universal consciousness and even sometimes beyond (pure awareness without object). In the video " Awaken to the Eternal " , Nisargadatta Maharaj is quoted twice as saying, " When I see I am nothing, this is wisdom. When I see I am everything, this is love. And between these two my life moves. " By the way toombaru, the term " Self " is mentioned in the Upanishads, as you may know, so perhaps it should be refered to as old-agey rather than new-agey. R. ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Nisargadatta , Richard <richarkar> wrote: > > > toombaru2004 <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > The world you see around you is you. You are connected to it. If you > > were not connected to it, you would not see it. Go figure! ;.) > > > > /AL > > > > When, through introspection, the self cannot find its self.....it envisions itself as " the all " ... > > That.....I'm afraid....is only another ...more elaborate grandiosity. > > Just another futile attempt to attach to a personal identity...albeit a little vaster then before. > > > > toombaru > > > > The above is unfortunately probably true of most egoji's (as Sunyata called them). But for a few, the personal is replaced by the impersonal universal consciousness and even sometimes beyond (pure awareness without object). > > In the video " Awaken to the Eternal " , Nisargadatta Maharaj is quoted twice as saying, " When I see I am nothing, this is wisdom. When I see I am everything, this is love. And between these two my life moves. " > > By the way toombaru, the term " Self " is mentioned in the Upanishads, as you may know, so perhaps it should be refered to as old-agey rather than new-agey. > > R. > > > Keep scramblin.......never give up. Maybe if you keep stacking up all those concepts .......you too can climb up.......all the way to heaven. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Richard <richarkar> wrote: > > > > > > toombaru2004 <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > The world you see around you is you. You are connected to it. If you > > > were not connected to it, you would not see it. Go figure! ;.) > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > When, through introspection, the self cannot find its self.....it envisions itself as " the all " ... > > > > That.....I'm afraid....is only another ...more elaborate grandiosity. > > > > Just another futile attempt to attach to a personal identity...albeit a little vaster then before. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > The above is unfortunately probably true of most egoji's (as Sunyata called them). But for a few, the personal is replaced by the impersonal universal consciousness and even sometimes beyond (pure awareness without object). > > > > In the video " Awaken to the Eternal " , Nisargadatta Maharaj is quoted twice as saying, " When I see I am nothing, this is wisdom. When I see I am everything, this is love. And between these two my life moves. " > > > > By the way toombaru, the term " Self " is mentioned in the Upanishads, as you may know, so perhaps it should be refered to as old-agey rather than new-agey. > > > > R. > > > > > > > > Keep scramblin.......never give up. > > Maybe if you keep stacking up all those concepts .......you too can climb up.......all the way to heaven. > > toombaru Hell........you're already halfway there. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 toombaru2004 <cptc wrote: Nisargadatta , Richard <richarkar> wrote: > > > toombaru2004 <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > The world you see around you is you. You are connected to it. If you > > were not connected to it, you would not see it. Go figure! ;.) > > > > /AL > > > > When, through introspection, the self cannot find its self.....it envisions itself as " the all " ... > > That.....I'm afraid....is only another ...more elaborate grandiosity. > > Just another futile attempt to attach to a personal identity...albeit a little vaster then before. > > > > toombaru > > > > The above is unfortunately probably true of most egoji's (as Sunyata called them). But for a few, the personal is replaced by the impersonal universal consciousness and even sometimes beyond (pure awareness without object). > > In the video " Awaken to the Eternal " , Nisargadatta Maharaj is quoted twice as saying, " When I see I am nothing, this is wisdom. When I see I am everything, this is love. And between these two my life moves. " > > By the way toombaru, the term " Self " is mentioned in the Upanishads, as you may know, so perhaps it should be refered to as old-agey rather than new-agey. > > R. > > > Keep scramblin.......never give up. Maybe if you keep stacking up all those concepts .......you too can climb up.......all the way to heaven. toombaru Touche! R. ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Nisargadatta , " dabo_now " <dscasta> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > The world you see around you is you. > > > and it's a pretty shitty one, isn't it? " ...if your state of consciousness is not right, then nothing is ever going to be right.....as long as you are trapped in _object_ consciousness... " -- Eckhart Tolle I think he points to the fact that we must feel good inside body and mind and then the world will also feel good. Problems will still be there on the level of objects, but will only cause minor movements in awareness according to Tolle. The mind trapped in thought always sees thought/emotion as major movements, or even as the only movements other than sense perceptions such as seeing, hearing e t c. For the mind trapped in thoughts problems matter absolutely (in an absolute way). The thinking mind sees its own thoughts and feelings and take them as being the only perspective that can exist. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > The world you see around you is you. You are connected to it. If you > > were not connected to it, you would not see it. Go figure! ;.) > > > > /AL > > > > When, through introspection, the self cannot find its self.....it envisions itself as " the all " ... > > That.....I'm afraid....is only another ...more elaborate grandiosity. > > Just another futile attempt to attach to a personal identity...albeit a little vaster then before. > > > > toombaru Thinking one is connected to the world becuase one can see the world only makes sense as an intellectual understanding. Or as Eckart Tolle says: " ....that's a nice belief..........'ultimately I believe all is one'..............to know it........you have to step out of object consciousness... " . /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " dabo_now " <dscasta> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > The world you see around you is you. > > > > > > and it's a pretty shitty one, isn't it? > > " ...if your state of consciousness is not right, then nothing is ever > going to be right.....as long as you are trapped in _object_ > consciousness... " -- Eckhart Tolle > > I think he points to the fact that we must feel good inside body and > mind and then the world will also feel good. Problems will still be > there on the level of objects, but will only cause minor movements in > awareness according to Tolle. > > The mind trapped in thought always sees thought/emotion as major > movements, or even as the only movements other than sense perceptions > such as seeing, hearing e t c. " Mind " cannot be trapped in thoughts. " Mind " and thoughts are the same. For the mind trapped in thoughts > problems matter absolutely (in an absolute way). The thinking mind > sees its own thoughts Thoughts cannot see themselves. A thought about a thought is a completely different thought. and feelings and take them as being the only > perspective that can exist. Thought is the only tool available in the futile attempt to understand itself. Can you see a problem here? toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > The world you see around you is you. You are connected to it. If you > > > were not connected to it, you would not see it. Go figure! ;.) > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > When, through introspection, the self cannot find its self.....it > envisions itself as " the all " ... > > > > That.....I'm afraid....is only another ...more elaborate grandiosity. > > > > Just another futile attempt to attach to a personal > identity...albeit a little vaster then before. > > > > > > > > toombaru > > Thinking one is connected to the world becuase one can see the world > only makes sense as an intellectual understanding. Or as Eckart Tolle > says: " ....that's a nice belief..........'ultimately I believe all is > one'..............to know it........you have to step out of object > consciousness... " . > > /AL Thought stepping outside of itself. hummmmmmm toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " dabo_now " <dscasta> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > The world you see around you is you. > > > > > > > > > and it's a pretty shitty one, isn't it? > > > > " ...if your state of consciousness is not right, then nothing is ever > > going to be right.....as long as you are trapped in _object_ > > consciousness... " -- Eckhart Tolle > > > > I think he points to the fact that we must feel good inside body and > > mind and then the world will also feel good. Problems will still be > > there on the level of objects, but will only cause minor movements in > > awareness according to Tolle. > > > > The mind trapped in thought always sees thought/emotion as major > > movements, or even as the only movements other than sense perceptions > > such as seeing, hearing e t c. > > > > > > " Mind " cannot be trapped in thoughts. > > " Mind " and thoughts are the same. 'Are'.....'is'...............Mind? Awareness! > > > > > > For the mind trapped in thoughts > > problems matter absolutely (in an absolute way). The thinking mind > > sees its own thoughts > > > Thoughts cannot see themselves. By thinking mind I mean awareness + thoughts, not only thoughts. > > A thought about a thought is a completely different thought. > > > > and feelings and take them as being the only > > perspective that can exist. > > > > > Thought is the only tool available in the futile attempt to understand itself. > > Can you see a problem here? > > > toombaru The only problem is the thinking mind seeing problems. What if there _is_ another perspective possible for humans, a perspective that is not solely based on thinking. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > The world you see around you is you. You are connected to it. If you > > > > were not connected to it, you would not see it. Go figure! ;.) > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > When, through introspection, the self cannot find its self.....it > > envisions itself as " the all " ... > > > > > > That.....I'm afraid....is only another ...more elaborate grandiosity. > > > > > > Just another futile attempt to attach to a personal > > identity...albeit a little vaster then before. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > Thinking one is connected to the world becuase one can see the world > > only makes sense as an intellectual understanding. Or as Eckart Tolle > > says: " ....that's a nice belief..........'ultimately I believe all is > > one'..............to know it........you have to step out of object > > consciousness... " . > > > > /AL > > > Thought stepping outside of itself. > > hummmmmmm > > > > toombaru 'You' are thoughts, but You are more than thoughts. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dabo_now " <dscasta> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The world you see around you is you. > > > > > > > > > > > > and it's a pretty shitty one, isn't it? > > > > > > " ...if your state of consciousness is not right, then nothing is ever > > > going to be right.....as long as you are trapped in _object_ > > > consciousness... " -- Eckhart Tolle > > > > > > I think he points to the fact that we must feel good inside body and > > > mind and then the world will also feel good. Problems will still be > > > there on the level of objects, but will only cause minor movements in > > > awareness according to Tolle. > > > > > > The mind trapped in thought always sees thought/emotion as major > > > movements, or even as the only movements other than sense perceptions > > > such as seeing, hearing e t c. > > > > > > > > > > > > " Mind " cannot be trapped in thoughts. > > > > " Mind " and thoughts are the same. > > 'Are'.....'is'...............Mind? Awareness! > Well...that depends on who you talk to....and to the meanings that both of you have given to " mind " and " awareness " . > > > > > > > > > > > > For the mind trapped in thoughts > > > problems matter absolutely (in an absolute way). The thinking mind > > > sees its own thoughts > > > > > > Thoughts cannot see themselves. > > By thinking mind I mean awareness + thoughts, not only thoughts. > > > You have divided mind.....thoughts....and awareness......and then try to figure out their relationship........ Did you hear about the goose egg in a bottle? > > A thought about a thought is a completely different thought. > > > > > > > > and feelings and take them as being the only > > > perspective that can exist. > > > > > > > > > > Thought is the only tool available in the futile attempt to > understand itself. > > > > Can you see a problem here? > > > > > > toombaru > > The only problem is the thinking mind seeing problems. What if there > _is_ another perspective possible for humans, a perspective that is > not solely based on thinking. Gee..........that's kinda hard to think about. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2005 Report Share Posted March 12, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The world you see around you is you. You are connected to it. > If you > > > > > were not connected to it, you would not see it. Go figure! ;.) > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When, through introspection, the self cannot find its self.....it > > > envisions itself as " the all " ... > > > > > > > > That.....I'm afraid....is only another ...more elaborate > grandiosity. > > > > > > > > Just another futile attempt to attach to a personal > > > identity...albeit a little vaster then before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > Thinking one is connected to the world becuase one can see the world > > > only makes sense as an intellectual understanding. Or as Eckart Tolle > > > says: " ....that's a nice belief..........'ultimately I believe all is > > > one'..............to know it........you have to step out of object > > > consciousness... " . > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > Thought stepping outside of itself. > > > > hummmmmmm > > > > > > > > toombaru > > 'You' are thoughts, but You are more than thoughts. Nope. t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " dabo_now " <dscasta> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The world you see around you is you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and it's a pretty shitty one, isn't it? > > > > > > > > " ...if your state of consciousness is not right, then nothing is ever > > > > going to be right.....as long as you are trapped in _object_ > > > > consciousness... " -- Eckhart Tolle > > > > > > > > I think he points to the fact that we must feel good inside body and > > > > mind and then the world will also feel good. Problems will still be > > > > there on the level of objects, but will only cause minor movements in > > > > awareness according to Tolle. > > > > > > > > The mind trapped in thought always sees thought/emotion as major > > > > movements, or even as the only movements other than sense perceptions > > > > such as seeing, hearing e t c. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > " Mind " cannot be trapped in thoughts. > > > > > > " Mind " and thoughts are the same. > > > > 'Are'.....'is'...............Mind? Awareness! > > > > Well...that depends on who you talk to....and to the meanings that both of you have given > to " mind " and " awareness " . We can use the metaphor of space and matter to illustrate the difference between thoughts and awareness. Then thoughts would best be likened to matter and awareness to space. Matter is not separate from space, but matter has different characteristics than space. Mind would then be both space + matter (awareness + thoughts). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the mind trapped in thoughts > > > > problems matter absolutely (in an absolute way). The thinking mind > > > > sees its own thoughts > > > > > > > > > Thoughts cannot see themselves. > > > > By thinking mind I mean awareness + thoughts, not only thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > You have divided mind.....thoughts....and awareness......and then try to figure out their > relationship........ > > Did you hear about the goose egg in a bottle? Awareness is what is aware of thought, it embraces thought so to speak, just as space embraces matter. If mind is pictured as a sentence, then thoughts are the words and awareness the canvas on which those words are written. > > > A thought about a thought is a completely different thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > and feelings and take them as being the only > > > > perspective that can exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thought is the only tool available in the futile attempt to > > understand itself. > > > > > > Can you see a problem here? > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > The only problem is the thinking mind seeing problems. What if there > > _is_ another perspective possible for humans, a perspective that is > > not solely based on thinking. > > > > Gee..........that's kinda hard to think about. > > > toombaru Yes, but the more I listen to spiritual teachers the more I sense that they are talking about a different perspective of how things are experienced. " Thought is small " , Eckhart Tolle said. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > The world you see around you is you. You are connected to it. > > If you > > > > > > were not connected to it, you would not see it. Go figure! ;.) > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When, through introspection, the self cannot find its self.....it > > > > envisions itself as " the all " ... > > > > > > > > > > That.....I'm afraid....is only another ...more elaborate > > grandiosity. > > > > > > > > > > Just another futile attempt to attach to a personal > > > > identity...albeit a little vaster then before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > Thinking one is connected to the world becuase one can see the world > > > > only makes sense as an intellectual understanding. Or as Eckart Tolle > > > > says: " ....that's a nice belief..........'ultimately I believe all is > > > > one'..............to know it........you have to step out of object > > > > consciousness... " . > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > Thought stepping outside of itself. > > > > > > hummmmmmm > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > 'You' are thoughts, but You are more than thoughts. > > > > Nope. > > > t. " If I don't know it now it can't exist, because I know everything there is to know (Vernon Howard describing how the mind usually operates when thinking about these things). What is aware of your thoughts? Just as matter cannot exist without space, thoughts cannot exist without awareness. /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 In a message dated 3/13/05 7:59:39 AM, wwoehr writes: > You see, the problem with naming is that we pick out a snapshot of a > dynamic process and give it a name like " thought " , or pre-thought, or > fart, or gas. Words never can catch life or the whole, but when > communicating we have to use words and that neccessity is a fair > agreement between the communicating parties, isn't it ? But suddenly > no longer accepting words during communication, I would > call " stubborn " or " rebellion " . > > Werner > Exactly, dearfriend! And when the name you are handed by another is one that he has chosen for a feeling he labelled Consciousness, or That, Realization etc. Then, what are the odds that you are going to place that 'tail' (nametag) on the same unnamed donkey which might, or might not be, inside your head? Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Sorry Anders, Thoughts exist without awarenes. When a thought comes into being it needs about 300 msecs til it gets conscious. In your previous post you wrote that awareness is like a canvas where objects appear on. What about sounds ? Hmm, then in your sense awareness no longer is a canvas but a loudspeaker ? What about smelling, tasting or phyhsical sensations ? I know, you believe awareness is pretty universal and when the body dies it will stay and survive. Have you read what Pete some days ago wrote ? When there is no longer a connection between the frontal lobe and the visual center (evtl. caused by an injury) then the person no longer consciously can see but still is able to move arround in a room without bumping at furnitures. In your understanding there now must be two awarenesses, one which is conscious and the other which is not conscious, or am I wrong ? You know this interesting thing with tennis players ? Because it needs about 400 msecs til a seen object appears in consiousness and those tennis balls are arriving with such high speed then they already have passed the player when he is starting to see them. Therefore tennis players have to learn no longer to react when the ball consciously is appearing but already when it is seen by the eyes and processed in the brain before getting conscious. As you see, tennis player give a fuck about tennis balls appearing on your canvas. For them that damn canvas is a hindrance, a barrier. And because tennis players learn not to pay attention to the canvas they never will have an eternally surving awareness, or will they just have a chance for eternal life when the tennis game is over ? Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " > <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The world you see around you is you. You are connected to it. > > > If you > > > > > > > were not connected to it, you would not see it. Go figure! ;.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When, through introspection, the self cannot find its > self.....it > > > > > envisions itself as " the all " ... > > > > > > > > > > > > That.....I'm afraid....is only another ...more elaborate > > > grandiosity. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just another futile attempt to attach to a personal > > > > > identity...albeit a little vaster then before. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > > > > > Thinking one is connected to the world becuase one can see the > world > > > > > only makes sense as an intellectual understanding. Or as > Eckart Tolle > > > > > says: " ....that's a nice belief..........'ultimately I believe > all is > > > > > one'..............to know it........you have to step out of object > > > > > consciousness... " . > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > Thought stepping outside of itself. > > > > > > > > hummmmmmm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru > > > > > > 'You' are thoughts, but You are more than thoughts. > > > > > > > > Nope. > > > > > > t. > > " If I don't know it now it can't exist, because I know everything > there is to know (Vernon Howard describing how the mind usually > operates when thinking about these things). > > What is aware of your thoughts? Just as matter cannot exist without > space, thoughts cannot exist without awareness. > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: >Thoughts exist without awarenes. When a thought comes into being it >needs about 300 msecs til it gets conscious. When you miss to become aware of the thought, lets say you faint 100 msecs before the thought becomes conscious, would you still call that which came into being " a thought " ? If you cannot answer this question with " yes " ... (I know you dont answer questions, so I make provisions for that case) ...well then, this - and all your conclusions - has no relevance at all to what is discussed. Greetings Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Sorry Anders, > > Thoughts exist without awarenes. When a thought comes into being it > needs about 300 msecs til it gets conscious. 300 msecs? There is only now. Those 300 msecs are just timeless information experienced now. > > In your previous post you wrote that awareness is like a canvas where > objects appear on. What about sounds ? Hmm, then in your sense > awareness no longer is a canvas but a loudspeaker ? What about > smelling, tasting or phyhsical sensations ? Sound appear in your awareness, in your consciousness. The same with all other phenomena. You don't even know if there is a 'world out there' or if the entire world is in you. > > I know, you believe awareness is pretty universal and when the body > dies it will stay and survive. I suspect that awareness is what is concrete and space and matter only Maya, a play of form/information. Awareness then has never been created, it just timelessly changelessly is (the unmoved mover). > > Have you read what Pete some days ago wrote ? When there is no longer > a connection between the frontal lobe and the visual center (evtl. > caused by an injury) then the person no longer consciously can see > but still is able to move arround in a room without bumping at > furnitures. My idea is that the physical body is just information experienced in awareness. If you kill a fellow in a computer game, then sure the fellow 'dies'. If you disable the visual center in a computer generated person, that person will no longer see. But there never has been a person and never will be. Not as a separate entity. The human body/brain is just information, and that information is not separate from all other information experienced in awareness. > > In your understanding there now must be two awarenesses, one which > is conscious and the other which is not conscious, or am I wrong ? Can there be two kinds of space? Maybe. But there is enough having one space. Similarly, there is enought to have one awareness having many experiences. Awareness is always aware, is always conscious - per my definition of awareness. Awareness cannot be unconscious. You can never be unconscious. Try to prove that you can be unconsious. > > You know this interesting thing with tennis players ? Because it > needs about 400 msecs til a seen object appears in consiousness and > those tennis balls are arriving with such high speed then they > already have passed the player when he is starting to see them. > Therefore tennis players have to learn no longer to react when the > ball consciously is appearing but already when it is seen by the eyes > and processed in the brain before getting conscious. As you see, > tennis player give a fuck about tennis balls appearing on your > canvas. For them that damn canvas is a hindrance, a barrier. > > And because tennis players learn not to pay attention to the canvas > they never will have an eternally surving awareness, or will they > just have a chance for eternal life when the tennis game is over ? > > Werner Awareness is timelessly aware now and only now. Time is an effect of information experienced in different configurations. The unfolding of complexity is what appear in awareness, creating universes, evolution, tennis players e t c. All this complexity is just timeless information totally interconnected. Separation is only an appearance of information observed in different configurations. Awareness experiencing itself as the tennis player is aware of all simultaneous connections in Kosmos, and is certainly aware subconsciously of the tenning ball even before his or her eyes and visual cortex registrating it. But 'before' here only means that certain information is configured in a way creating a seeming past. A human being is just awareness observing information. There is no real solid 'matter' anywhere. All is Maya (substance-less quantum wave function). /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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