Guest guest Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 " To find God, you must give up God, " sounds a whole lot like something Meister Eckhart would have said, were he fortunate enough to be part of this list. I'm certain, though, that Odi, Ecky, and the Big W are all talking about the very same thing. God's not the problem, it seems. It's the God Concept that's stirring up all the trouble. What did Joseph Campbell say? " Mythology is the name we give to other people's religion. " All you Baal worshippers out there better take heed. Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Hi Odi, > > I am thankful to find someone helping me to understand myself what I > have posted. Good to know you are arround always ready to lend a > helping hand > > Werner > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Stefan, > > > > > > If you want to go on with all your beliefs and concepts which > help > > > you to get stabilized as mine do stabilze me, then just go on. > > Have I > > > ever asked you to prove them ? Would that have been fair ? > > > > > > For me it is a common thing that we feed on hamburgers for the > > body > > > and concepts and beliefs to get on grips with " reality " . > > > > > > I never ask others to prove their consepts and belief because > what > > > really counts is why do we need them. What are the motives, the > > > needs, the emotions behind them ? > > > > > > I think it is a sign for unfair communicative qualities to ask > for > > > proofs of the other's beliefs like " Ha idiot, you believe in God ? > > > Prove it that God exists " . > > > > > > My motive why I deny the existence of " pure consciousness " has > its > > > root in this metaphor: > > > > > > " To find God you must give up God " > > > > > > Werner > > > > ************************************* > > > > Hi Werner, > > > > W: " To find God you must give up God " > > > > We must be careful in the interpretation of that metaphor. Millions > > of people have give up the idea of God or any search or way to > reach > > him. They are not closer to him at all. I know a lot of them. Pure > > consciousness as teached by the masters is pure being. The essence > > of our selves. You just said above that you deny it? Neti neti has > > to be use carfully with wisdom. If not you may fall in the > labyrinth > > of explanations and denials. You must know who you are. You cannot > > bypass this to reach yourself. Denying your existance won't bring > > you closer to your self. You cannot deny what exists. Deny an apple? > > We can never get rid of God! Never ever! The idea of God must be > > given up! Not God!! > > > > Respectfully > > Odysseus, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Yes Gary, You are right, that sentence " To find God you must give up God " indeed I got from Eckhart. I read it alsmost 35 years ago when I was a God seeker - don't ask me now what that is a " God seeker " , I no longer know. At thar time I haven't read and dind't know anything about " concepts " but this sentence from E. brought the clue. And your words hit the point and are perfect: " God's not the problem, it seems. It's the God Concept that's stirring up all the trouble " . Nice, nice ... Werner Nisargadatta , " garyfalk1943 " <falkgw@h...> wrote: > > > " To find God, you must give up God, " sounds a whole lot like > something Meister Eckhart would have said, were he fortunate enough > to be part of this list. > > I'm certain, though, that Odi, Ecky, and the Big W are all talking > about the very same thing. God's not the problem, it seems. It's the > God Concept that's stirring up all the trouble. > > What did Joseph Campbell say? " Mythology is the name we give to > other people's religion. " > > All you Baal worshippers out there better take heed. > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Odi, > > > > I am thankful to find someone helping me to understand myself what > I > > have posted. Good to know you are arround always ready to lend a > > helping hand > > > > Werner > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Stefan, > > > > > > > > If you want to go on with all your beliefs and concepts which > > help > > > > you to get stabilized as mine do stabilze me, then just go on. > > > Have I > > > > ever asked you to prove them ? Would that have been fair ? > > > > > > > > For me it is a common thing that we feed on hamburgers for the > > > body > > > > and concepts and beliefs to get on grips with " reality " . > > > > > > > > I never ask others to prove their consepts and belief because > > what > > > > really counts is why do we need them. What are the motives, the > > > > needs, the emotions behind them ? > > > > > > > > I think it is a sign for unfair communicative qualities to ask > > for > > > > proofs of the other's beliefs like " Ha idiot, you believe in > God ? > > > > Prove it that God exists " . > > > > > > > > My motive why I deny the existence of " pure consciousness " has > > its > > > > root in this metaphor: > > > > > > > > " To find God you must give up God " > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > ************************************* > > > > > > Hi Werner, > > > > > > W: " To find God you must give up God " > > > > > > We must be careful in the interpretation of that metaphor. > Millions > > > of people have give up the idea of God or any search or way to > > reach > > > him. They are not closer to him at all. I know a lot of them. > Pure > > > consciousness as teached by the masters is pure being. The > essence > > > of our selves. You just said above that you deny it? Neti neti > has > > > to be use carfully with wisdom. If not you may fall in the > > labyrinth > > > of explanations and denials. You must know who you are. You > cannot > > > bypass this to reach yourself. Denying your existance won't bring > > > you closer to your self. You cannot deny what exists. Deny an > apple? > > > We can never get rid of God! Never ever! The idea of God must be > > > given up! Not God!! > > > > > > Respectfully > > > Odysseus, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Yes Gary, > > You are right, that sentence " To find God you must give up God " > indeed I got from Eckhart. I read it alsmost 35 years ago when I was > a God seeker - don't ask me now what that is a " God seeker " , I no > longer know. > > At thar time I haven't read and dind't know anything about " concepts " > but this sentence from E. brought the clue. And your words hit the > point and are perfect: " God's not the problem, it seems. It's the God > Concept that's stirring up all the trouble " . > > Nice, nice ... > > Werner Yes, to find God one has to give up the word God, and after that the word God will back again as a part of God. Then you will see that the word God is not the same as the word God. /AL > > > Nisargadatta , " garyfalk1943 " <falkgw@h...> > wrote: > > > > > > " To find God, you must give up God, " sounds a whole lot like > > something Meister Eckhart would have said, were he fortunate enough > > to be part of this list. > > > > I'm certain, though, that Odi, Ecky, and the Big W are all talking > > about the very same thing. God's not the problem, it seems. It's > the > > God Concept that's stirring up all the trouble. > > > > What did Joseph Campbell say? " Mythology is the name we give to > > other people's religion. " > > > > All you Baal worshippers out there better take heed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Odi, > > > > > > I am thankful to find someone helping me to understand myself > what > > I > > > have posted. Good to know you are arround always ready to lend a > > > helping hand > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " ilikezen2004 " > > > <ilikezen2004> wrote: > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " > <wwoehr@p...> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Stefan, > > > > > > > > > > If you want to go on with all your beliefs and concepts which > > > help > > > > > you to get stabilized as mine do stabilze me, then just go > on. > > > > Have I > > > > > ever asked you to prove them ? Would that have been fair ? > > > > > > > > > > For me it is a common thing that we feed on hamburgers for > the > > > > body > > > > > and concepts and beliefs to get on grips with " reality " . > > > > > > > > > > I never ask others to prove their consepts and belief because > > > what > > > > > really counts is why do we need them. What are the motives, > the > > > > > needs, the emotions behind them ? > > > > > > > > > > I think it is a sign for unfair communicative qualities to > ask > > > for > > > > > proofs of the other's beliefs like " Ha idiot, you believe in > > God ? > > > > > Prove it that God exists " . > > > > > > > > > > My motive why I deny the existence of " pure consciousness " > has > > > its > > > > > root in this metaphor: > > > > > > > > > > " To find God you must give up God " > > > > > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > > > ************************************* > > > > > > > > Hi Werner, > > > > > > > > W: " To find God you must give up God " > > > > > > > > We must be careful in the interpretation of that metaphor. > > Millions > > > > of people have give up the idea of God or any search or way to > > > reach > > > > him. They are not closer to him at all. I know a lot of them. > > Pure > > > > consciousness as teached by the masters is pure being. The > > essence > > > > of our selves. You just said above that you deny it? Neti neti > > has > > > > to be use carfully with wisdom. If not you may fall in the > > > labyrinth > > > > of explanations and denials. You must know who you are. You > > cannot > > > > bypass this to reach yourself. Denying your existance won't > bring > > > > you closer to your self. You cannot deny what exists. Deny an > > apple? > > > > We can never get rid of God! Never ever! The idea of God must > be > > > > given up! Not God!! > > > > > > > > Respectfully > > > > Odysseus, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Yes Gary, > > You are right, that sentence " To find God you must give up God " > indeed I got from Eckhart. I read it alsmost 35 years ago when I was > a God seeker - don't ask me now what that is a " God seeker " , I no > longer know. > > At thar time I haven't read and dind't know anything about " concepts " > but this sentence from E. brought the clue. And your words hit the > point and are perfect: " God's not the problem, it seems. It's the God > Concept that's stirring up all the trouble " . > > Nice, nice ... > > Werner > > > Nisargadatta , " garyfalk1943 " <falkgw@h...> > wrote: > > > > > > " To find God, you must give up God, " sounds a whole lot like > > something Meister Eckhart would have said, were he fortunate enough > > to be part of this list. > > > > I'm certain, though, that Odi, Ecky, and the Big W are all talking > > about the very same thing. God's not the problem, it seems. It's > the > > God Concept that's stirring up all the trouble. > > > > What did Joseph Campbell say? " Mythology is the name we give to > > other people's religion. " > > > > All you Baal worshippers out there better take heed. > > > > You have not yet dared to lose faith--so how can faith grow in you? --Rumi faith in ------> god? The big non-problem is that man is not created in God's image but God is created in man's image. The bible is an old book of figurative parables made to give a wondering group on nomads a sense tradition of unity which has been transposed in people's minds as literal. Trying to surgically remove the problem of the God Concept from *God* origin/source in peoples minds is as as tough as separating a siamese twin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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