Guest guest Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 In a message dated 3/16/05 5:18:47 AM, falkgw writes: > Yeah, it's all about the God concept. If God is an all-powerful He > or She, then it does appear that God, from the human point of view > at least, is pretty fucked up. > > But if God = the highest universe value, then I would say that " God " > is love since Love IS the highest universe value. > > How do I know this? I don't. That's just what my experience tells > me, that's all. > > The idea of God picking out some people to be " saved " while He lets > others drown either in the tsunami or in their own inner juices, IS > pretty hideous, I agree. > > In that situation, God needs more than divine Viagra. I would > recommend about 225 mg. of Effexor, b/c it sounds like that God must > be pretty depressed. > > P: Well, I wouldn't say love it's the highest universal value. I would say, it's the highest human value, or even mammalian value, since dogs seems to be more loving than the average human. Anthropomorphism seems to be an incorrigible mind habit. Indulging that habit, we could say gravity is a form of universal love, which lumps of matter feel for one another, therefore, this love of matter for its own company could be said to be universal, and supreme. Yet, we know the universe is expanding at an ever faster rate, and this antigravity force (or dark energy) is much stronger than gravity, and is actually, increasing the distance between stars and galaxies. A few billion years from now if there is anyone around, they won't be able to see a starry sky. The night sky will be as black as ink. So, there goes that theory. If matter loves its own company, then space is acting like a divorce lawyer. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Nisargadatta , " garyfalk1943 " <falkgw@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > > > > > > P: Is that why that tsunami killed over 200,000 people in one > flat > > minute? > > There is problem which believers seldom face: Either God is an > all > > powerful creator, and therefore, wantonly destroys life, which > hardly > > can be called loving, or He is a true lover, but > impotent............... > > > > and needs divine Viagra.>> > > True, God hasn't had a boner in quite a while. Not since the parting > of the Red Sea and the Battle of Jericho. > > > <<> Of course, as Gary said the problem is with the God concept, and > the > > way we attribute to it human emotions such as love, and human > virtues > > such as goodness, and human aspirations of power, justice, and > > life eternal. All indications are, that if there is a reality > behind the > > concept, it doesn't have any more regard for human life that it > has for > > the life of insects.>> > > Yeah, it's all about the God concept. If God is an all-powerful He > or She, then it does appear that God, from the human point of view > at least, is pretty fucked up. > > But if God = the highest universe value, then I would say that " God " > is love since Love IS the highest universe value. > > How do I know this? I don't. That's just what my experience tells > me, that's all. > > The idea of God picking out some people to be " saved " while He lets > others drown either in the tsunami or in their own inner juices, IS > pretty hideous, I agree. > > In that situation, God needs more than divine Viagra. I would > recommend about 225 mg. of Effexor, b/c it sounds like that God must > be pretty depressed. > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 --- toombaru2004 <cptc wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " garyfalk1943 " > <falkgw@h...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > P: Is that why that tsunami killed over > 200,000 people in one > > flat > > > minute? > > > There is problem which believers seldom face: > Either the concGod is an > > all > > > powerful creator, and therefore, wantonly > destroys life, which > > hardly > > > can be called loving, or He is a true lover, > but > > impotent............... > > > > > > and needs divine Viagra.>> > > > > True, God hasn't had a boner in quite a while. Not > since the parting > > of the Red Sea and the Battle of Jericho. > > > > > > <<> Of course, as Gary said the problem is with > the God concept, and > > the > > > way we attribute to it human emotions such as > love, and human > > virtues > > > such as goodness, and human aspirations of > power, justice, and > > > life eternal. All indications are, that if > there is a reality > > behind the > > > concept, it doesn't have any more regard for > human life that it > > has for > > > the life of insects.>> > > > > Yeah, it's all about the God concept. If God is an > all-powerful He > > or She, then it does appear that God, from the > human point of view > > at least, is pretty fucked up. > > > > But if God = the highest universe value, then I > would say that " God " > > is love since Love IS the highest universe value. > > > > How do I know this? I don't. That's just what my > experience tells > > me, that's all. > > > > The idea of God picking out some people to be > " saved " while He lets > > others drown either in the tsunami or in their own > inner juices, IS > > pretty hideous, I agree. > > > > In that situation, God needs more than divine > Viagra. I would > > recommend about 225 mg. of Effexor, b/c it sounds > like that God must > > be pretty depressed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Factor out the concept of god.....and watch what > happens. > > > > toombaru Ok. Here it is, more or less. Is that why that tsunami killed over 200,000 people in one flat minute? There is problem which believers seldom face: Either the concept is an all powerful creator, and therefore, wantonly destroys life, which hardly can be called loving, or the concept is it is a true lover,but impotent............... and needs divine Viagra.>> True, the concept hasn't had a boner in quite a while. Not since the parting of the Red Sea and the Battle of Jericho. Of course, as Gary said the problem is with the God concept, and the way we attribute to the concept human emotions such as love, and human virtues such as goodness, and human aspirations of power, justice, and life eternal. All indications are, that if there is a reality behind the concept, the concept doesn't have any more regard for human life that it has for the life of insects. Yeah, it's all about the God concept. If the concept is an all-powerful He or She, then it does appear that the concept, from the human point of view at least, is pretty fucked up. But if the concept = the highest universe value, then I would say that " the concept " is love since Love IS the highest universe value. How do I know this? I don't. That's just what my experience tells me, that's all. The idea of the concept picking out some people to be " saved " while the concept lets others drown either in the tsunami or in their own inner juices, IS pretty hideous, I agree. In that situation, the concept needs more than divine Viagra. I would recommend about 225 mg. of Effexor, b/c it sounds like that concept must be pretty depressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 3/16/05 5:18:47 AM, falkgw@h... writes: > > > > > >Gary: But if God = the highest universe value, then I would say that " God " is love since Love IS the highest universe value. > > > > P: Well, I wouldn't say love it's the highest universal value. I would say, > it's the highest human value, or even mammalian value, since dogs > seems to be more loving than the average human. Anthropomorphism > seems to be an incorrigible mind habit. Indulging that habit, we could say > gravity is a form of universal love, which lumps of matter feel for one > another, > therefore, this love of matter for its own company could be said to be > universal, and supreme. > Yet, we know the universe is expanding at an ever faster rate, and this > antigravity force (or dark energy) is much stronger than gravity, and is > actually, > increasing the distance between stars and galaxies. A few billion years from > now if there is anyone around, they won't be able to see a starry sky. The > night sky will be as black as ink. So, there goes that theory. If matter > loves its own company, then space is acting like a divorce lawyer. > > Pete > GRR: People haven't got a clue what love actually is, but rather they put it into a construct that they like, one that appeals to their egoic senses, and run with that. Strong, stalwart people who believe that good is the only thing that defines love would have a very hard time in accepting hardships as potential " loving " experiences because they can't understand them as good by virtue of their own definition. Any parent knows that love can be found as equally in a hard and firm word or action as it can be found in a soft and gentle word or action. Once one reaches past the concept of love they begin to understand what this human emotion really is all about. But then it's unlikely they will attempt that because then their illusion may get shaken and disappear --> death of anything is a great fear. Death of a concept about love is the final hardship. Odysseus view on love makes no sense to me what-so- ever -- this view is an endless ship ride with no rudder or an endless labrynth with no compass. No wonder love makes no sense to most people - they don't understand it. They have made it a goal rather than an avenue. Just like making nirvana a goal rather than an avenue for experience. No wonder these people are terrible confused and conflicted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Nisargadatta , " goldenrainbowrider " <laughterx8@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > > > In a message dated 3/16/05 5:18:47 AM, falkgw@h... writes: > > > > > > > > > >Gary: But if God = the highest universe value, then I would say > that " God " is love since Love IS the highest universe value. > > > > > > > > P: Well, I wouldn't say love it's the highest universal value. I > would say, > > it's the highest human value, or even mammalian value, since dogs > > seems to be more loving than the average human. Anthropomorphism > > seems to be an incorrigible mind habit. Indulging that habit, we > could say > > gravity is a form of universal love, which lumps of matter feel > for one > > another, > > therefore, this love of matter for its own company could be said > to be > > universal, and supreme. > > Yet, we know the universe is expanding at an ever faster rate, and > this > > antigravity force (or dark energy) is much stronger than gravity, > and is > > actually, > > increasing the distance between stars and galaxies. A few billion > years from > > now if there is anyone around, they won't be able to see a starry > sky. The > > night sky will be as black as ink. So, there goes that theory. If > matter > > loves its own company, then space is acting like a divorce > lawyer. > > > > Pete > > > > > GRR: People haven't got a clue what love actually is, but rather > they put it into a construct that they like, one that appeals to > their egoic senses, and run with that. Strong, stalwart people who > believe that good is the only thing that defines love would have a > very hard time in accepting hardships as potential " loving " > experiences because they can't understand them as good by virtue of > their own definition. Any parent knows that love can be found as > equally in a hard and firm word or action as it can be found in a > soft and gentle word or action. Once one reaches past the concept > of love they begin to understand what this human emotion really is > all about. But then it's unlikely they will attempt that because > then their illusion may get shaken and disappear --> death of > anything is a great fear. Death of a concept about love is the > final hardship. Odysseus view on love makes no sense to me what-so- > ever -- this view is an endless ship ride with no rudder or an > endless labrynth with no compass. No wonder love makes no sense to > most people - they don't understand it. They have made it a goal > rather than an avenue. Just like making nirvana a goal rather than > an avenue for experience. No wonder these people are terrible > confused and conflicted. " ...it may sound a bit strange.......but all love is self-love.......because ultimately there is only one Self... " -- Eckhart Tolle /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > " ...it may sound a bit strange.......but all love is > self-love.......because ultimately there is only one Self... " -- > Eckhart Tolle > > /AL GRR: I like that. I agree that it's all self love but Odysseus may have trouble formulating that concept b/c he acknowledges the split as God and " other " and that the two aren't one; he denies himself as being part of the God or being Thee God. It would be very interesting to hear how he explains that, or if he agrees or disagrees or if he can make sense of that given his belief in separation between him and his God. I look at everything and see that it is all love. Yes, in that sense all is love and yet, rising one step through that quagmire I can see that love isn't " all " at all. It's an emotional measuring stick wherewith to determine and evaluate. If your a science buff you can liken love as a lab test. In a lab experiment you look for findings which help you to point the way to understand and evaluate your experiment, which is exactly what love does - it acts as findings to point the way to results and understanding of the experiment called " life " . When people get caught up in seeking love or nirvana as the ultimate goal to achieve they get caught up in a swirl which is has nothing to do with the price of rice in china (as the old saying goes.) But, it's a pleasant distraction howbeit one that gets befuddled when focusing on it as something that it is not and never was intended to be - a goal. How many people have the goal of bliss and even call themselves Ananda something or other. In this sense it's a huge distraction which lends the ego to be very self righteous and holy. it is ego that has parcelled it off Love into little fragmented packages of good vs bad and has blown it into something that is so out of context. Same as the idea of non-duality. Many people have taken this idea of non-duality and have blown it into something that has nothing really to do with anything at all, so it actually ends up defeating the purpose of using it to enlighten since it ends up acting as a quicksand to mire the person into further distraction and escapism. Say, I watched the movie " I heart Huckabees " last night and they had a very fresh way of looking at non-duality vs existentialism. If you're sensitive to language then I don't recommend it cuz there is course swearing. It all exemplifies the human experience in an interesting way. ~*~ G.R.R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Nisargadatta , " goldenrainbowrider " <laughterx8@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > " ...it may sound a bit strange.......but all love is > > self-love.......because ultimately there is only one Self... " -- > > Eckhart Tolle > > > > /AL > > GRR: I like that. I agree that it's all self love but Odysseus may > have trouble formulating that concept b/c he acknowledges the split > as God and " other " and that the two aren't one; he denies himself as > being part of the God or being Thee God. It would be very > interesting to hear how he explains that, or if he agrees or > disagrees or if he can make sense of that given his belief in > separation between him and his God. > > I look at everything and see that it is all love. Yes, in that > sense all is love and yet, rising one step through that quagmire I > can see that love isn't " all " at all. It's an emotional measuring > stick wherewith to determine and evaluate. If your a science buff > you can liken love as a lab test. In a lab experiment you look for > findings which help you to point the way to understand and evaluate > your experiment, which is exactly what love does - it acts as > findings to point the way to results and understanding of the > experiment called " life " . When people get caught up in seeking > love or nirvana as the ultimate goal to achieve they get caught up > in a swirl which is has nothing to do with the price of rice in > china (as the old saying goes.) But, it's a pleasant distraction > howbeit one that gets befuddled when focusing on it as something > that it is not and never was intended to be - a goal. How many > people have the goal of bliss and even call themselves Ananda > something or other. In this sense it's a huge distraction which > lends the ego to be very self righteous and holy. > it is ego that has parcelled it off Love into little fragmented > packages of good vs bad and has blown it into something that is so > out of context. Same as the idea of non-duality. Many people have > taken this idea of non-duality and have blown it into something that > has nothing really to do with anything at all, so it actually ends > up defeating the purpose of using it to enlighten since it ends up > acting as a quicksand to mire the person into further distraction > and escapism. > > Say, I watched the movie " I heart Huckabees " last night and they > had a very fresh way of looking at non-duality vs existentialism. > If you're sensitive to language then I don't recommend it cuz there > is course swearing. It all exemplifies the human experience in an > interesting way. > > ~*~ G.R.R. Non-duality in a movie, that sounds interesting. Maybe I will check it out. /AllAnanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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