Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 > Hi Lewis and Anders, > Ordinary language tries to distinguish between awareness> and consciousness but the boundries are permeable. Raja Yoga with its> graded meditations starts with a gross object and ends with the objectless, > immaterial. In this view is of things, you become aware of something, you > notice something. They would reject as imprecise the expression 'he > recovered consciousness'. This allows them to accept consciousness in deep > sleep but not awareness. Awareness would be linked to 'vritti' or mental> modifications and the general shape of these vrittis would be determined by > the sort of sense modalities that the human has. These are a sub set of > what are sometimes called upadhis or forms of limitation. They are species > specific. The forms of limitation are forms of limitation (limiting > adjuncts) of Pure Consciousness and as that retain its nature of immediate > self consciousness. This nature is the key to the self-inquiry of the jnana > marg. > Using an analogy of material identity, awareness is considered to be like > the bangles, bracelets, rings that are made out of the gold of > consciousness. Waves, billows, foam are all alike ocean/water etc. Usually > the distinction is marked by the contrast between (lower case)consciousness> and (upper case) Pure Consciousness. >> Lewis, as you know, there are those who reject the idea ofConsciousness and accept awareness. There are even those who covertly impugn awareness and affect to puzzlement re self consciousness. The Tenth Man story may be > relevant here. Certainly it is an important juncture in the seeker's life to hear from a wise bystander - That thou art. > > Michael Hi Michael, Maybe one could see it the other way around: awareness is the gold, and consciousness is that gold molded into forms? /AL ************** Hi Anders, It seems to me that 'consciousness' is a term of wider extension than 'awareness'. You can be conscious without being aware but not aware without being conscious. Michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Nisargadatta , ombhurbhuva <ombhurbhuva@e...> wrote: > > Hi Lewis and Anders, > > Ordinary language tries to distinguish between > awareness> and consciousness but the boundries are permeable. Raja Yoga > with its> graded meditations starts with a gross object and ends with the > objectless, > > immaterial. In this view is of things, you become aware of something, you > > notice something. They would reject as imprecise the expression 'he > > recovered consciousness'. This allows them to accept consciousness in deep > > sleep but not awareness. Awareness would be linked to 'vritti' or > mental> modifications and the general shape of these vrittis would be > determined by > the sort of sense modalities that the human has. These are > a sub set of > > what are sometimes called upadhis or forms of limitation. They are > species > specific. The forms of limitation are forms of limitation > (limiting > > adjuncts) of Pure Consciousness and as that retain its nature of > immediate > self consciousness. This nature is the key to the self-inquiry > of the jnana > marg. > > Using an analogy of material identity, awareness is considered to be like > > the bangles, bracelets, rings that are made out of the gold of > > consciousness. Waves, billows, foam are all alike ocean/water etc. Usually > > the distinction is marked by the contrast between (lower > case)consciousness> and (upper case) Pure Consciousness. > >> > Lewis, as you know, there are those who reject the idea ofConsciousness and > accept awareness. There are even those who covertly impugn awareness and > affect to puzzlement re self consciousness. The Tenth Man story may be > > relevant here. Certainly it is an important juncture in the seeker's > life to hear from a wise bystander - That thou art. > > > > Michael > > Hi Michael, > > Maybe one could see it the other way around: awareness is the gold, > and consciousness is that gold molded into forms? > > /AL > > ************** > > Hi Anders, > It seems to me that 'consciousness' is a term of wider extension > than 'awareness'. You can be conscious without being aware but not aware > without being conscious. > > > > Michael. But doesn't being conscious mean that one is being conscious of existing, and isn't that the same as being aware of existing? /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Being conscious of existing ? You Anders ? Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Hi Michael, > > > > Maybe one could see it the other way around: awareness is the gold, > > and consciousness is that gold molded into forms? > > > > /AL > > > > ************** > > > > Hi Anders, > > It seems to me that 'consciousness' is a term of wider > extension > > than 'awareness'. You can be conscious without being aware but not > aware > > without being conscious. > > > > > > > > Michael. > > But doesn't being conscious mean that one is being conscious of > existing, and isn't that the same as being aware of existing? > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 20, 2005 Report Share Posted March 20, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Being conscious of existing ? You Anders ? > > Werner That's what consciousness results in: being conscious, the I am, the I exist. Can you deny that God exists? Of course you can. Can you deny that you exist? Of course not. You are conscious of existing. You are aware of existing. To say no to that would be a silly game. /AL > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Hi Michael, > > > > > > Maybe one could see it the other way around: awareness is the > gold, > > > and consciousness is that gold molded into forms? > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > ************** > > > > > > Hi Anders, > > > It seems to me that 'consciousness' is a term of wider > > extension > > > than 'awareness'. You can be conscious without being aware but > not > > aware > > > without being conscious. > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael. > > > > But doesn't being conscious mean that one is being conscious of > > existing, and isn't that the same as being aware of existing? > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Hi Anders, My question wasn'r precise enough. It should have been: Are YOU conscious of that YOU are existing ? Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > > > Being conscious of existing ? You Anders ? > > > > Werner > > > That's what consciousness results in: being conscious, the I am, the I > exist. Can you deny that God exists? Of course you can. Can you deny > that you exist? Of course not. You are conscious of existing. You are > aware of existing. To say no to that would be a silly game. > > /AL > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Michael, > > > > > > > > Maybe one could see it the other way around: awareness is the > > gold, > > > > and consciousness is that gold molded into forms? > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > ************** > > > > > > > > Hi Anders, > > > > It seems to me that 'consciousness' is a term of wider > > > extension > > > > than 'awareness'. You can be conscious without being aware but > > not > > > aware > > > > without being conscious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael. > > > > > > But doesn't being conscious mean that one is being conscious of > > > existing, and isn't that the same as being aware of existing? > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 21, 2005 Report Share Posted March 21, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Hi Anders, > > My question wasn'r precise enough. It should have been: Are YOU > conscious of that YOU are existing ? > > Werner Yes, I am. :-) /AL > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > > > > Being conscious of existing ? You Anders ? > > > > > > Werner > > > > > > That's what consciousness results in: being conscious, the I am, > the I > > exist. Can you deny that God exists? Of course you can. Can you deny > > that you exist? Of course not. You are conscious of existing. You > are > > aware of existing. To say no to that would be a silly game. > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Michael, > > > > > > > > > > Maybe one could see it the other way around: awareness is > the > > > gold, > > > > > and consciousness is that gold molded into forms? > > > > > > > > > > /AL > > > > > > > > > > ************** > > > > > > > > > > Hi Anders, > > > > > It seems to me that 'consciousness' is a term of > wider > > > > extension > > > > > than 'awareness'. You can be conscious without being aware > but > > > not > > > > aware > > > > > without being conscious. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael. > > > > > > > > But doesn't being conscious mean that one is being conscious of > > > > existing, and isn't that the same as being aware of existing? > > > > > > > > /AL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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