Guest guest Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > According to Ken Wilber, Spirit correlates to the Big Three: I, we, > and its. 'I' is the first-hand experience of Spirit (which Wilber also > calls the ground of being), 'we' is the intersubjective experience > such as culture, and 'its' is the physical world of absolute > locations. According to Wilber, higher states of consciousness can be > measured as physical attributes/waves in the brain/body. > > al. sam: Ken would propose to measure physical(?) attributes (?) as waves (?) in the body/brain (?) That would be a very fascinating study which should have humanity pre- occupied on a wonderous goose chase for about another 30 thousand years or so. We do like to toy around with this stuff don't we? *kind regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " sam_t_7 " <sam_t_7> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > According to Ken Wilber, Spirit correlates to the Big Three: I, we, > > and its. 'I' is the first-hand experience of Spirit (which Wilber > also > > calls the ground of being), 'we' is the intersubjective experience > > such as culture, and 'its' is the physical world of absolute > > locations. According to Wilber, higher states of consciousness can be > > measured as physical attributes/waves in the brain/body. > > > > al. > > > sam: Ken would propose to measure physical(?) attributes (?) as > waves (?) in the body/brain (?) > > That would be a very fascinating study which should have humanity pre- > occupied on a wonderous goose chase for about another 30 thousand > years or so. We do like to toy around with this stuff don't we? > > *kind regards If I remember correctly, Wilber described how people in meditative states had different kinds of brain waves than people in ordinary states of consciousness. I listened to a recording of a conference recently where one scientists said that experiments had been done where the brain activity of the frontal lobe could be swiched _off_ by certain meditators! But the main claim that Wilber makes is that the three domains (I, we and its) are interrelated, so that any change in consciousness would have a correlate in the physical domain. But it is not so easy to map for example the feeling of wanting a glass of wine to actual neural activities in the brain and the body. The domain of 'its', such as atoms and neurons, has absolute locations, whereas subjective feelings are more diffuse. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " sam_t_7 " <sam_t_7> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > According to Ken Wilber, Spirit correlates to the Big Three: I, we, > > > and its. 'I' is the first-hand experience of Spirit (which Wilber > > also > > > calls the ground of being), 'we' is the intersubjective experience > > > such as culture, and 'its' is the physical world of absolute > > > locations. According to Wilber, higher states of consciousness can be > > > measured as physical attributes/waves in the brain/body. > > > > > > al. > > > > > > sam: Ken would propose to measure physical(?) attributes (?) as > > waves (?) in the body/brain (?) > > > > That would be a very fascinating study which should have humanity pre- > > occupied on a wonderous goose chase for about another 30 thousand > > years or so. We do like to toy around with this stuff don't we? > > > > *kind regards > > If I remember correctly, Wilber described how people in meditative > states had different kinds of brain waves than people in ordinary > states of consciousness. I listened to a recording of a conference > recently where one scientists said that experiments had been done > where the brain activity of the frontal lobe could be swiched _off_ by > certain meditators! But the main claim that Wilber makes is that the > three domains (I, we and its) are interrelated, so that any change in > consciousness would have a correlate in the physical domain. But it is > not so easy to map for example the feeling of wanting a glass of wine > to actual neural activities in the brain and the body. The domain of > 'its', such as atoms and neurons, has absolute locations, whereas > subjective feelings are more diffuse. > > al. sam: this kind of porposal and adventure really can become quite confusing, albeit often fascinating for the seeker, and only feeds into the -seeker- mode unless it is taken from this perspective of the *realized non-seeker* which was previously mentioned: The non-seeker calls a river and a mountain a river and a mountain. When she becomes a seeker she says there is no mountain and river. When he becomes a realized non-seeker he goes back to calling it - a river and a mountain. Otherwise, the seeker is likely to get wrapped back up in the play. There's nothing wrong with that of course but that the seeker thinks there is something wrong and looks to find a way out. Once the dream is seen for what it is the seeker stops and realizes, hey, I'm going to play around with these non-waves, to heck with whether or not their -real- or -not real-. Then they become as Nis explains in the previously posted message: Seeker: If both dream and escape from dream are imaginings, what is the way out? Maharaj Nis: There is no need of a way out! Don't you see that a way out is also part of the dream? All you have to do is to see the dream as dream. Seeker: If I start the practice of dismissing everything as a dream, where will it lead me? Maharaj Nis: Wherever it leads you, it will be a dream. The very idea of going beyond the dream is illusory. Why go anywhere? Just realize that you are dreaming a dream you call the world, and stop looking for ways out. The dream is not your problem. Your problem is that you like one part of the dream and not another. When you have seen the dream as a dream, you have done all that needs be done. -from " I am That " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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