Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Most people, including myself, experience a self that essentially functions as a separate entity. However, it may be possible to take a stance above the objectified subject called the self. That is, to clearly observe this self, and how it operates, in a somewhat detached way. And also notice the fact that this act of observation is much a part of the very self being observed. What we end up with is a fake 'pure' observer, but at least we are then more objective than when acting as a self without making this effort of observing the self. The purpose of this self-observation is to see if one can detect what causes the internal conflict between the self and the world. My own conclusion after having practiced such self-observation is that the root cause of the conflict is between fear and desire. Out of this conflict which manifests as suffering, psychological time is born. If this observation is correct, we can ask ourselves: is psychological time really needed? The surface answer is yes, psychological time is needed to create a direction and purpose in life. What I mean by psycological time is the thought- and emotion-based sense of past and future. The main problem with psychological time is that it creates a self separate from the rest of the world, a self which must use effort and control to force its way through life. This sense of separation is what creates the self as an object. This idea is enforced through education, media, business and the rest of what constitutes contemporary society. The image of a human being as a separate entity having to force itself through life is firmly established in all major human cultures. To add the idea of a separate self being helpless by saying that we have no free will or that the world just happens by itself can be gravely misleading. If the answer was that simple, why would we need the feeling of volition in the first place? The answer is that our sense of free will and volition is an important part of the functioning of this world. Without it, evolution would simply stop progressing. So striving as a separate individual is an important part of evolution; the sense of being somebody is a strong force pushing humanity into new expressions. The question then is: how can we maintain a healthy sense of separation without it leading to conflict and suffering? What would happen if the sense of oneself as an object would be loosened up a bit? That's the way to go I believe if we want to dissolve conflict. Let yourself melt into the world a bit. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Most people, including myself, experience a self that essentially > functions as a separate entity. However, it may be possible to take a > stance above the objectified subject called the self. That is, to > clearly observe this self, and how it operates, in a somewhat detached > way. And also notice the fact that this act of observation is much a > part of the very self being observed. > > What we end up with is a fake 'pure' observer, but at least we are > then more objective than when acting as a self without making this > effort of observing the self. The purpose of this self-observation is > to see if one can detect what causes the internal conflict between the > self and the world. > > My own conclusion after having practiced such self-observation is that > the root cause of the conflict is between fear and desire. Out of this > conflict which manifests as suffering, psychological time is born. If > this observation is correct, we can ask ourselves: is psychological > time really needed? The surface answer is yes, psychological time is > needed to create a direction and purpose in life. What I mean by > psycological time is the thought- and emotion-based sense of past and > future. > > The main problem with psychological time is that it creates a self > separate from the rest of the world, a self which must use effort and > control to force its way through life. This sense of separation is > what creates the self as an object. This idea is enforced through > education, media, business and the rest of what constitutes > contemporary society. The image of a human being as a separate entity > having to force itself through life is firmly established in all major > human cultures. > > To add the idea of a separate self being helpless by saying that we > have no free will or that the world just happens by itself can be > gravely misleading. If the answer was that simple, why would we need > the feeling of volition in the first place? The answer is that our > sense of free will and volition is an important part of the > functioning of this world. Without it, evolution would simply stop > progressing. So striving as a separate individual is an important part > of evolution; the sense of being somebody is a strong force pushing > humanity into new expressions. > > The question then is: how can we maintain a healthy sense of > separation without it leading to conflict and suffering? What would > happen if the sense of oneself as an object would be loosened up a > bit? That's the way to go I believe if we want to dissolve conflict. > Let yourself melt into the world a bit. > > al. " Self " .....is the conflict. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > The question then is: how can we maintain a healthy sense of > separation without it leading to conflict and suffering? What would whenever there is form, there is an equilibrium which maintains the form. there are instincts which try to keep the form intact. in a crystal, eg, there is a force binding the molecules. all forms want to exist till they wither away. be aware of yourself (ie, your body), as an expression of the universe. your pain is its pain. your evolution is its evolution. there is no sin in existing as a separate mind-body. it is what it is. when love arises in the heart, it spreads everywhere, including yourself. you don't owe suffering to anybody who lived or died for you. you have to find your own path. you have to find your own peace here. accept struggle as part of nature. then you will someday cease to be bothered by it. some will call it transcendence. struggle will not end. your awakening means nothing to Nature. it has to carry on its work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > The question then is: how can we maintain a healthy sense of > > separation without it leading to conflict and suffering? What would > > whenever there is form, there is an equilibrium which maintains the > form. there are instincts which try to keep the form intact. in a > crystal, eg, there is a force binding the molecules. > > all forms want to exist till they wither away. > > be aware of yourself (ie, your body), as an expression of the > universe. your pain is its pain. your evolution is its evolution. > > there is no sin in existing as a separate mind-body. it is what it is. > when love arises in the heart, it spreads everywhere, including yourself. > > you don't owe suffering to anybody who lived or died for you. you have > to find your own path. you have to find your own peace here. > > accept struggle as part of nature. then you will someday cease to be > bothered by it. some will call it transcendence. > > struggle will not end. your awakening means nothing to Nature. it has > to carry on its work. If my awakening means nothing to Nature then Nature means nothing to me. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " hemantbhai100 " > <hemantbhai100@h...> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > > > > The question then is: how can we maintain a healthy sense of > > > separation without it leading to conflict and suffering? What would > > > > whenever there is form, there is an equilibrium which maintains the > > form. there are instincts which try to keep the form intact. in a > > crystal, eg, there is a force binding the molecules. > > > > all forms want to exist till they wither away. > > > > be aware of yourself (ie, your body), as an expression of the > > universe. your pain is its pain. your evolution is its evolution. > > > > there is no sin in existing as a separate mind-body. it is what it is. > > when love arises in the heart, it spreads everywhere, including > yourself. > > > > you don't owe suffering to anybody who lived or died for you. you have > > to find your own path. you have to find your own peace here. > > > > accept struggle as part of nature. then you will someday cease to be > > bothered by it. some will call it transcendence. > > > > struggle will not end. your awakening means nothing to Nature. it has > > to carry on its work. > > " If my awakening means nothing to Nature then Nature means nothing to me! " .......screamed the mouse......as he threw his little crown into the bushes. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > If my awakening means nothing to Nature then Nature means nothing to me. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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