Guest guest Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 Some people talk about enlightenment and say that there is no difference between enlightenment and the ordinary way of living, and they may even believe they _are_ enlightened already by such intellectual understanding. Or they simply say that there is no such thing as enlightenment. How can they know that? Check out: http://www.osho-holics.com/osho/lectures%20-mp3/osho_mp3_lectures.htm Where you will find a presentation of what enlightenment can be like. Maybe Osho is pulling our legs in his description of his awakening, but I get the feeling that what he talks about is the real stuff. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 7, 2005 Report Share Posted April 7, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Some people talk about enlightenment and say that there is no > difference between enlightenment and the ordinary way of living, and > they may even believe they _are_ enlightened already by such > intellectual understanding. Or they simply say that there is no such > thing as enlightenment. How can they know that? > Who is there to be enlightened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Some people talk about enlightenment and say that there is no > > difference between enlightenment and the ordinary way of living, and > > they may even believe they _are_ enlightened already by such > > intellectual understanding. Or they simply say that there is no such > > thing as enlightenment. How can they know that? > > > > > Who is there to be enlightened? Many sages say that enlightenment is a happening, an awakening into a 'higher' reality. When you are dreaming in your sleep, then you believe you are the dream character (unless it is a lucid dream). But when you wake up in the morning you can compare this " new " you with the character you thought you were in the dream and it is easy to see that the you who has woken up from the dream is more real than the dreaming you. Similarly, enlightenment is a waking up from the conceptualized sense of a separate " me " . That's at least what many sages say. I have an idea that the Self is One, but it is experiencing itself in many forms, such as human beings. This one Self is not an object but a timeless One Awareness shining in the now. When enlightenment happens to one of its facets (such as a human being), it suddenly wakes up from the dream of separation: " Wow, I thought I was a separate human being having a separate life, what a friggin' nightmare! " :-) al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Hi Anders, Similarly, enlightenment is a waking up from the conceptualized sense of a separate " me " . That's at least what many sages say. KA: Perhaps! I say to you, Anders, as a friend, you've gathered over the years now a massive amount of knowledge about and around enlightenment. Isn't it time to put " enligthenment " aside and live truly? I have an idea that the Self is One, but it is experiencing itself in many forms, such as human beings. This one Self is not an object but a timeless One Awareness shining in the now. When enlightenment happens to one of its facets (such as a human being), it suddenly wakes up from the dream of separation: " Wow, I thought I was a separate human being having a separate life, what a friggin' nightmare! " :-) KA:...and then, Anders? Would the dream of " Oneness " be anywise different? As long as you expect it, it will not come and if you loose all expectations neither. There is nothing Anders can do about it. Besides, Anders, what could be actually so interesting in being enlightened or being called enlightened? cordially, Kip Almazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " kipalmazy " <kipalmazy> wrote: > > Hi Anders, > > > Similarly, enlightenment is a waking up from the conceptualized sense > of a separate " me " . That's at least what many sages say. > > > KA: Perhaps! I say to you, Anders, as a friend, you've gathered over > the years now a massive amount of knowledge about and around > enlightenment. Isn't it time to put " enligthenment " aside and live > truly? > > > I have an idea that the Self is One, but it is experiencing itself in > many forms, such as human beings. This one Self is not an object but a > timeless One Awareness shining in the now. When enlightenment happens > to one of its facets (such as a human being), it suddenly wakes up > from the dream of separation: " Wow, I thought I was a separate human > being having a separate life, what a friggin' nightmare! " :-) > > > KA:...and then, Anders? Would the dream of " Oneness " be anywise > different? As long as you expect it, it will not come and if you > loose all expectations neither. There is nothing Anders can do about > it. Besides, Anders, what could be actually so interesting in being > enlightened or being called enlightened? > > cordially, > Kip Almazy Kip, I believe enlightenment is an awakening to the truth. As we as ordinary people live our lives, we frankly have no clue of what we are, apart from consciousness and material observations. So the first thing that would be interesting to know is _what_ we actually are as a direct knowing, and not some mere conceptual ideas. The second thing to notice, as illustrated by Osho's rendering of his spiritual awakening, is the allurement of a higher state of being that allegedly enlightenment entails. Few people believe that enlightenment, if there is such a thing, brings with it an _increase_ of suffering and separation. The possibility of enlightenment could be an indication of that the way we live as ordinary human beings, seen from a relative viewpoint of an enlightened sage, is _not_ to live truly, but rather a form of being asleep. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> wrote: > > Who is there to be enlightened? Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > When enlightenment happens > to one of its facets (such as a human being), it suddenly wakes up > from the dream of separation: " Wow, I thought I was a separate human > being having a separate life, what a friggin' nightmare! " :-) > > al. Who is it that wakes up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: >I believe enlightenment is an awakening to the truth. The truth, Anders, is the state you are already in. Otherwise it would not be truth. You seem to me like a fish that is swimming in the ocean, asking for water. You are swimming in the water and say: " I must be sleeping, I would like to wake up to realize that water " . But really, you dont need to do anything to realize the water. You are already in it. >As we as ordinary people live our lives, we frankly have no clue of what we are, apart from consciousness and material observations. There is no need to have a clue of " what we are " ... because " we are " . The enlightened one is the most ordinary being, he has stopped trying to be extraordinary. He has accepted that everything is ordinary. >So the first >thing that would be interesting to know is _what_ we actually are as >a direct knowing, and not some mere conceptual ideas. You already are what you are. Your " direct knowing " is just another conceptual idea, which is great! Just let it be what it is. There is no need to fight anything. Osho clearly said it in his speech: Enlightenement was not the result of the search. It was there when the search ended. But not " he " ended the search. It ended by itself. What can one do to end it if there is no one to end it? >The possibility of enlightenment could be an indication of >that the way we live as ordinary human beings, seen from a relative >viewpoint of an enlightened sage, is _not_ to live truly, but rather >a form of being asleep. There is no way to " not " live truly. What you just experience: this is truth. You may call your unwillingness to accept all as it is " sleep " . But you dont wake up from that sleep by denying it, by judging it as something unworthy compared to an " awakened " state. The state of " sleep " is part of truth. No need to waste any further thought about it but also no need to fight any further thought about it. Just accept, as is. It is wonderful. Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> > wrote: > > > > Who is there to be enlightened? > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > When enlightenment happens > > to one of its facets (such as a human being), it suddenly wakes up > > from the dream of separation: " Wow, I thought I was a separate human > > being having a separate life, what a friggin' nightmare! " :-) > > > > al. > > Who is it that wakes up? The One Consciousness wakes up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > >I believe enlightenment is an awakening to the truth. > > The truth, Anders, is the state you are already in. Otherwise it would > not be truth. You seem to me like a fish that is swimming in the > ocean, asking for water. You are swimming in the water and say: " I > must be sleeping, I would like to wake up to realize that water " . But > really, you dont need to do anything to realize the water. You are > already in it. A person being asleep and having a dream may in that dream want to be in his or her real body instead of being in the dream. If someone told that person: but you _are_ already in your real body, would that help the person who is dreaming? > > >As we as ordinary people live our lives, we frankly have no clue of > what we are, apart from consciousness and material observations. > > There is no need to have a clue of " what we are " ... because " we are " . > The enlightened one is the most ordinary being, he has stopped trying > to be extraordinary. He has accepted that everything is ordinary. That is my idea of fake enlightenment. As long as we are experiencing ourself as separate human beings with separate lives we have not awakened. Intellectual understanding is not enlightenment. The thinking mind is very clever. Watch it closely. > > >So the first > >thing that would be interesting to know is _what_ we actually are as > >a direct knowing, and not some mere conceptual ideas. > > You already are what you are. Your " direct knowing " is just another > conceptual idea, which is great! Just let it be what it is. There is > no need to fight anything. Osho clearly said it in his speech: > Enlightenement was not the result of the search. It was there when the > search ended. But not " he " ended the search. It ended by itself. What > can one do to end it if there is no one to end it? To say to oneself that one is powerless is only to fool oneself. > > >The possibility of enlightenment could be an indication of > >that the way we live as ordinary human beings, seen from a relative > >viewpoint of an enlightened sage, is _not_ to live truly, but rather > >a form of being asleep. > > There is no way to " not " live truly. What you just experience: this is > truth. > > You may call your unwillingness to accept all as it is " sleep " . But > you dont wake up from that sleep by denying it, by judging it as > something unworthy compared to an " awakened " state. > > The state of " sleep " is part of truth. No need to waste any further > thought about it but also no need to fight any further thought about > it. Just accept, as is. > > It is wonderful. > Stefan Wouldn't acceptance also mean aceeptance of trying to find enlightenment? And can true acceptance really be an act of will? Do you really want to accept suffering? Isn't that to double-fool oneself? If there is true acceptance, is there really any question of accepting or not accepting? al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > >I believe enlightenment is an awakening to the truth. > > The truth, Anders, is the state you are already in. Otherwise it would > not be truth. You seem to me like a fish that is swimming in the > ocean, asking for water. You are swimming in the water and say: " I > must be sleeping, I would like to wake up to realize that water " . But > really, you dont need to do anything to realize the water. You are > already in it. > > >As we as ordinary people live our lives, we frankly have no clue of > what we are, apart from consciousness and material observations. > > There is no need to have a clue of " what we are " ... because " we are " . > The enlightened one is the most ordinary being, he has stopped trying > to be extraordinary. He has accepted that everything is ordinary. > > >So the first > >thing that would be interesting to know is _what_ we actually are as > >a direct knowing, and not some mere conceptual ideas. > > You already are what you are. Your " direct knowing " is just another > conceptual idea, which is great! Just let it be what it is. There is > no need to fight anything. Osho clearly said it in his speech: > Enlightenement was not the result of the search. It was there when the > search ended. But not " he " ended the search. It ended by itself. What > can one do to end it if there is no one to end it? > > >The possibility of enlightenment could be an indication of > >that the way we live as ordinary human beings, seen from a relative > >viewpoint of an enlightened sage, is _not_ to live truly, but rather > >a form of being asleep. > > There is no way to " not " live truly. What you just experience: this is > truth. > > You may call your unwillingness to accept all as it is " sleep " . But > you dont wake up from that sleep by denying it, by judging it as > something unworthy compared to an " awakened " state. > > The state of " sleep " is part of truth. No need to waste any further > thought about it but also no need to fight any further thought about > it. Just accept, as is. > > It is wonderful. > Stefan sam: very well said Stefan. And then comes the realization that there was *nothing* to accept. Brings it all back to the beginning in a way doesn't it? Now there is a *knowing* that there is nothing to accept (having gone over acceptance to find there's nothing to accept) so the fight/seeking ends. Either the role played ends or carries on -- with a twist. I don't have the way with words as you do and not the ability to describe the undescribable but you have managed to make it simple in this response to Al. And you didn't even have to threaten to beat him up to do it or use 5 varieties of curse words? LOL. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Some people talk about enlightenment and say that there is no > difference between enlightenment and the ordinary way of living, and > they may even believe they _are_ enlightened already by such > intellectual understanding. Or they simply say that there is no such > thing as enlightenment. How can they know that? > > Check out: > > http://www.osho-holics.com/osho/lectures%20-mp3/osho_mp3_lectures.htm > > Where you will find a presentation of what enlightenment can be like. > Maybe Osho is pulling our legs in his description of his awakening, > but I get the feeling that what he talks about is the real stuff. > > al. sam: If your idea of enlightenment is fear then Osho's your man. He kept a loaded gun with him out of fear of his enemies and also tucked away in one of his many, many expensive cars he drove in. If material wealth is a sign of enlightenment then this man had it in spades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: >A person being asleep and having a dream may in that dream want to be >in his or her real body instead of being in the dream. If someone told that person: but you _are_ already in your real body, would that >help the person who is dreaming? What makes you think that the one in a dream is *not* in his real body? >As long as we are experiencing >ourself as separate human beings with separate lives we have not >awakened. Intellectual understanding is not enlightenment. The >thinking mind is very clever. Watch it closely. It is your idea that something that you experience is " wrong " which creates the problem. Not the experience itself is the problem. Your experience is perfect. The experiencing will reveal the truth if you let it truly happen. You just maintain the idea that it is wrong. Thus you focus on ideas instead of the experiencing itself. >>But not " he " ended the search. It ended by itself. What >>can one do to end it if there is no one to end it? > >To say to oneself that one is powerless is only to fool oneself. I was just citing this lecture from Osho you were refering to. >Wouldn't acceptance also mean acceptance of trying to find >enlightenment? Yes. >And can true acceptance really be an act of will? No. >Do you really want to accept suffering? There is no choice. >Isn't that to double-fool oneself? No, its how things are. >If there is true acceptance, is there really any question of >accepting or not accepting? You are right, Anders. There is not even this question. All the best Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " sam_t_7 " <sam_t_7> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Some people talk about enlightenment and say that there is no > > difference between enlightenment and the ordinary way of living, and > > they may even believe they _are_ enlightened already by such > > intellectual understanding. Or they simply say that there is no such > > thing as enlightenment. How can they know that? > > > > Check out: > > > > http://www.osho-holics.com/osho/lectures%20-mp3/osho_mp3_lectures.htm > > > > Where you will find a presentation of what enlightenment can be like. > > Maybe Osho is pulling our legs in his description of his awakening, > > but I get the feeling that what he talks about is the real stuff. > > > > al. > > sam: If your idea of enlightenment is fear then Osho's your man. He > kept a loaded gun with him out of fear of his enemies and also tucked > away in one of his many, many expensive cars he drove in. If material > wealth is a sign of enlightenment then this man had it in spades. A desire to protect oneself is still a desire. Osho said that in an enlightened being there is no desire, no fear. Maybe he was just a clever and mentally disturbed sect leader. One should not blindly follow a leader or spiritual ideas. Rational thinking should not be left behind. Science and spirituality must go hand in hand. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > >A person being asleep and having a dream may in that dream want to be > >in his or her real body instead of being in the dream. If someone > told that person: but you _are_ already in your real body, would that > >help the person who is dreaming? > > What makes you think that the one in a dream is *not* in his real > body? A person dreaming _is_ in the body but has no awareness of having a body, of sleeping in a bed. The person dreaming believes he or she atually is the dream character. It is only on waking up that the dream is recognized as being a dream. Sages are adamant on pointing out that there is no separation between people and that there is only One Self. An ordinary person has no awareness of this One Self, and so can in a sense be said to be asleep. Telling an ordinary person: " Do you know that there is only One Self " could eventually lead to an awakening, but until that actually becomes a reality for the person, he or she is still asleep. > > >As long as we are experiencing > >ourself as separate human beings with separate lives we have not > >awakened. Intellectual understanding is not enlightenment. The > >thinking mind is very clever. Watch it closely. > > It is your idea that something that you experience is " wrong " which > creates the problem. Not the experience itself is the problem. Your > experience is perfect. The experiencing will reveal the truth if you > let it truly happen. You just maintain the idea that it is wrong. Thus > you focus on ideas instead of the experiencing itself. I believe there is only One Self, but that is only a belief. If and when I realize this, then I will be awake. Maybe the idea of a One Self is only a false idea, and then I am seeking an awakening that is not possible in reality. It is very frustrating to not know if awakening to the One Self is possible or not. > > >>But not " he " ended the search. It ended by itself. What > >>can one do to end it if there is no one to end it? > > > >To say to oneself that one is powerless is only to fool oneself. > > I was just citing this lecture from Osho you were refering to. > > >Wouldn't acceptance also mean acceptance of trying to find > >enlightenment? > > Yes. > > >And can true acceptance really be an act of will? > > No. > > >Do you really want to accept suffering? > > There is no choice. Are you sure? > > >Isn't that to double-fool oneself? > > No, its how things are. How about your free will? > > >If there is true acceptance, is there really any question of > >accepting or not accepting? > > You are right, Anders. There is not even this question. > > All the best > Stefan My idea of true acceptance is not what for example Wayne Liquorman and Ramesh Balsekar say is true acceptance. I will never accept suffering. I think. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " sam_t_7 " <sam_t_7> wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Some people talk about enlightenment and say that there is no > > > difference between enlightenment and the ordinary way of living, and > > > they may even believe they _are_ enlightened already by such > > > intellectual understanding. Or they simply say that there is no such > > > thing as enlightenment. How can they know that? > > > > > > Check out: > > > > > > http://www.osho-holics.com/osho/lectures%20- mp3/osho_mp3_lectures.htm > > > > > > Where you will find a presentation of what enlightenment can be like. > > > Maybe Osho is pulling our legs in his description of his awakening, > > > but I get the feeling that what he talks about is the real stuff. > > > > > > al. > > > > sam: If your idea of enlightenment is fear then Osho's your man. He > > kept a loaded gun with him out of fear of his enemies and also tucked > > away in one of his many, many expensive cars he drove in. If material > > wealth is a sign of enlightenment then this man had it in spades. > > A desire to protect oneself is still a desire. Osho said that in an > enlightened being there is no desire, no fear. Maybe he was just a > clever and mentally disturbed sect leader. One should not blindly > follow a leader or spiritual ideas. Rational thinking should not be > left behind. Science and spirituality must go hand in hand. > > al. sam: I was looking through google to find some articles I had read on Osho's latter years, when he became highly entrenched in riches and cars, guns for protection and intense sexual escapades. The story goes that he did not start out that way but certainly ended that way. I couldn't find the particular website and gave up looking after about 10 mins. I'm sure if you hunt awhile you can find this information on Osho. It's *good* not to blindly follow a leader or spiritual ideas; his cult was entrenched in the biggest bio-terrorist election campaign in the U.S.A. history (Oregon). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 > > > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> > > wrote: > > > > Who is it that wakes up? > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > The One Consciousness wakes up. The One Consciousness is sleeping? If so, shouldn't it be called the One Unconsciousness? Where is this One Consciousness that needs waking up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 2005 Report Share Posted April 8, 2005 Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> wrote: > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> > > > wrote: > > > > > > Who is it that wakes up? > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > The One Consciousness wakes up. > > > The One Consciousness is sleeping? If so, shouldn't it be called the > One Unconsciousness? Where is this One Consciousness that needs waking > up? When are asleep and dreaming we are not unconscious, yet we are then unaware that a higher form of being exists, namely the everyday woken up state. Similarly, in our everyday woken up state we are unaware of any higher forms of being. We may read about sages who claim the have reached higher forms of awareness, but unless we ourself are in that higher state we will never know it, only know about it, only have ideas about it. A higher state knows lower states, but a lower state cannot know higher states, only know _about_ higher states, which is not the same as direct knowing. The physical universe consists of objects made up of separate particles. Each particle is a result of the collapse of a quantum mechanical wave function. So we have a lot of wave functions collapsing going on, but all wave functions acts within the same reality so they cannot be really separate from each other. There must exist some other function that connects the separate wave functions into a cohesive whole. Existence is one. The universe is one. If the universe was two, then there must exist something that connects these two parts, or else they would not be within the same existence. Therefore all is one. We can call it the One Consciousness, or whatever, but all is one; the One and the Many. It is this Oneness that wakes up to itself. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2005 Report Share Posted April 9, 2005 If all is one, as you say, then, there is no separate, individual self. If there is no separate, individual self, then, there is no one to wake up or to know anything. There's nothing to do because there's no one there to do anything. It simply is what it is. Nothing more. > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > When are asleep and dreaming we are not unconscious, yet we are then > unaware that a higher form of being exists, namely the everyday woken > up state. Similarly, in our everyday woken up state we are unaware of > any higher forms of being. We may read about sages who claim the have > reached higher forms of awareness, but unless we ourself are in that > higher state we will never know it, only know about it, only have > ideas about it. A higher state knows lower states, but a lower state > cannot know higher states, only know _about_ higher states, which is > not the same as direct knowing. > > The physical universe consists of objects made up of separate > particles. Each particle is a result of the collapse of a quantum > mechanical wave function. So we have a lot of wave functions > collapsing going on, but all wave functions acts within the same > reality so they cannot be really separate from each other. There must > exist some other function that connects the separate wave functions > into a cohesive whole. Existence is one. The universe is one. If the > universe was two, then there must exist something that connects these > two parts, or else they would not be within the same existence. > > Therefore all is one. We can call it the One Consciousness, or > whatever, but all is one; the One and the Many. It is this Oneness > that wakes up to itself. > > al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " fuzzie_wuz " <fuzzie_wuz> wrote: > > If all is one, as you say, then, there is no separate, individual > self. If there is no separate, individual self, then, there is no one > to wake up or to know anything. There's nothing to do because there's > no one there to do anything. It simply is what it is. Nothing more. But this Oneness is new all the time, it takes new directions in each moment, and we are not separate from it. With our free will we take new directions, and that is the same thing as Oneness taking new directions. Maybe we can even wake ourselves up to higher levels of existence. To speculate a bit; maybe the next step in evolution is to wake up as planet consciousness, to wake up as Gaia (Mother Earth). Then we wake up and realize that we are the whole planet and not just a separate human being. Carl Jung talked about the collective unconscious. Maybe what he noticed was the embryo of the collective _conscious_ which will wake up somewhere in the future. :-) al. > > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > When are asleep and dreaming we are not unconscious, yet we are then > > unaware that a higher form of being exists, namely the everyday woken > > up state. Similarly, in our everyday woken up state we are unaware of > > any higher forms of being. We may read about sages who claim the have > > reached higher forms of awareness, but unless we ourself are in that > > higher state we will never know it, only know about it, only have > > ideas about it. A higher state knows lower states, but a lower state > > cannot know higher states, only know _about_ higher states, which is > > not the same as direct knowing. > > > > The physical universe consists of objects made up of separate > > particles. Each particle is a result of the collapse of a quantum > > mechanical wave function. So we have a lot of wave functions > > collapsing going on, but all wave functions acts within the same > > reality so they cannot be really separate from each other. There must > > exist some other function that connects the separate wave functions > > into a cohesive whole. Existence is one. The universe is one. If the > > universe was two, then there must exist something that connects these > > two parts, or else they would not be within the same existence. > > > > Therefore all is one. We can call it the One Consciousness, or > > whatever, but all is one; the One and the Many. It is this Oneness > > that wakes up to itself. > > > > al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.