Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Only by dropping your mind can you come to the no-mind. Who is going to do this dropping? Your are. You are not your mind. al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Only by dropping your mind can you come to the no-mind. Who is going > to do this dropping? Your are. You are not your mind. > > al. PS. You can also keep your mind if you like it. Also if you drop your mind, I don't know if you ever will get it back, and that can be a bit scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Oh so wonderful, And you Anders who is not you have already dopped your mind ? But I fear that dropping failed else I hadn't to read this crap again. Oh Lord, manage the real Anders to find a way to drop the false Anders in order to come to No-Anders and so crap will become no-crap. Werner Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Only by dropping your mind can you come to the no-mind. Who is going > to do this dropping? Your are. You are not your mind. > > al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Oh so wonderful, > > And you Anders who is not you have already dopped your mind ? But I > fear that dropping failed else I hadn't to read this crap again. > > Oh Lord, manage the real Anders to find a way to drop the false Anders > in order to come to No-Anders and so crap will become no-crap. > > Werner I just posted this recommendation in case someone would try to drop his or her mind, and then could tell me how it went. I dare not try it myself. al. > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Only by dropping your mind can you come to the no-mind. Who is going > > to do this dropping? Your are. You are not your mind. > > > > al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 LOL ! Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " <anders_lindman> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > > > Oh so wonderful, > > > > And you Anders who is not you have already dopped your mind ? But I > > fear that dropping failed else I hadn't to read this crap again. > > > > Oh Lord, manage the real Anders to find a way to drop the false Anders > > in order to come to No-Anders and so crap will become no-crap. > > > > Werner > > I just posted this recommendation in case someone would try to drop > his or her mind, and then could tell me how it went. I dare not try it > myself. > > al. > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Only by dropping your mind can you come to the no-mind. Who is going > > > to do this dropping? Your are. You are not your mind. > > > > > > al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Oh so wonderful, > > And you Anders who is not you have already dopped your mind ? But I > fear that dropping failed else I hadn't to read this crap again. > > Oh Lord, manage the real Anders to find a way to drop the false Anders > in order to come to No-Anders and so crap will become no-crap. > > Werner ** With that much wanking, you go blind. > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > Only by dropping your mind can you come to the no-mind. Who is going > > to do this dropping? Your are. You are not your mind. > > > > al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " kenj02001 " <kenj02001> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > > Oh so wonderful, > > > > And you Anders who is not you have already dopped your mind ? But > I > > fear that dropping failed else I hadn't to read this crap again. > > > > Oh Lord, manage the real Anders to find a way to drop the false > Anders > > in order to come to No-Anders and so crap will become no-crap. > > > > Werner > > ** With that much wanking, you go blind. ** But as we see here, " Al " (and the rest of our exchanges) is just a dance of inevitability, dissolving back into ____. > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > <anders_lindman> wrote: > > > > > > Only by dropping your mind can you come to the no-mind. Who is > going > > > to do this dropping? Your are. You are not your mind. > > > > > > al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Hi Werner, I can see that you are still not " Manns genug " to face the questions that have been directed to you. It feels sooo good to be well hidden and still be able to shoot, right? Anders has not claimed that he has dropped his mind. He is not presenting himself as a super being. He exposes how his mind works and is not hiding behind fake attitudes. Could you ever muster up such courage? How does your mind work, Werner? You are giving the impression that you think it works better than Anders mind. How, what do you think? Is it better organized? Is it tidy and clean, everything neatly filed in drawers thoroughly labelled? " Fact1 " , " Fact2 " ... Do you therefor feel so superior in front of him? And dont be so much afraid of me, I love you. Just, common, be a man and speak out what is really bothering you. Here are so many helpful people... its your chance of a lifetime to take some new STEPS (remember the poem?). Love Stefan P.S. I believe that your mind is as crappily chaotic as anybodies mind... Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > >Oh so wonderful, > >And you Anders who is not you have already dopped your mind ? But I >fear that dropping failed else I hadn't to read this crap again. > >Oh Lord, manage the real Anders to find a way to drop the false Anders in order to come to No-Anders and so crap will become no-crap. > >Werner > > >Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " ><anders_lindman> wrote: >> >>Only by dropping your mind can you come to the no-mind. Who is going >>to do this dropping? Your are. You are not your mind. >> >> al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Everything is ok Stefan, Just cool down. Werner Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Hi Werner, > > I can see that you are still not " Manns genug " to face the questions > that have been directed to you. It feels sooo good to be well hidden > and still be able to shoot, right? > > Anders has not claimed that he has dropped his mind. He is not > presenting himself as a super being. He exposes how his mind works and > is not hiding behind fake attitudes. Could you ever muster up such > courage? > > How does your mind work, Werner? You are giving the impression that > you think it works better than Anders mind. How, what do you think? Is > it better organized? Is it tidy and clean, everything neatly filed in > drawers thoroughly labelled? " Fact1 " , " Fact2 " ... Do you therefor feel > so superior in front of him? > > And dont be so much afraid of me, I love you. Just, common, be a man > and speak out what is really bothering you. Here are so many helpful > people... its your chance of a lifetime to take some new STEPS > (remember the poem?). > > Love > Stefan > > P.S. I believe that your mind is as crappily chaotic as anybodies > mind... > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > >Oh so wonderful, > > > >And you Anders who is not you have already dopped your mind ? But I > >fear that dropping failed else I hadn't to read this crap again. > > > >Oh Lord, manage the real Anders to find a way to drop the false > Anders in order to come to No-Anders and so crap will become no- crap. > > > >Werner > > > > > >Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > ><anders_lindman> wrote: > >> > >>Only by dropping your mind can you come to the no-mind. Who is going > >>to do this dropping? Your are. You are not your mind. > >> > >> al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > >Everything is ok Stefan, >Just cool down. >Werner Hi Werner, you are still up? Well, I am cool as a smooth summer breeze... and everything is ok... no problem. Your last postings just sounded pritty hot and I thought you could need a helping hand. From the change of your tone I can see now that my attempts have not been in vain... :-) So, back to the subject then. What about your mind. Does it often want to feel superior than other minds? I know this itching from my own experience, you know. But maybe you really believe that you are superior than the others. I am not shure... Maybe now you believe you are my anti-teacher. Lol. I find it good to talk about those things... openly. I dont protect myself and I mean everything honest. I was just very much surprised when - after a friendly and (maybe too) innocent posting the other day... you suddenly barked at me like a Schäferhund. It has helped me a lot to realize that those kind of attitudes create only troubles. And that the odd nature of the human mind is basicly the same for everybody, be it Einstein or Micky Mouse. Dont you think? Haha! So, Werner, now its your turn. Barking and shooting is one thing, talking is much nicer, isnt it. Greetings to Vaterland Stefan > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > wrote: > > > > Hi Werner, > > > > I can see that you are still not " Manns genug " to face the questions > > that have been directed to you. It feels sooo good to be well hidden > > and still be able to shoot, right? > > > > Anders has not claimed that he has dropped his mind. He is not > > presenting himself as a super being. He exposes how his mind works > and > > is not hiding behind fake attitudes. Could you ever muster up such > > courage? > > > > How does your mind work, Werner? You are giving the impression that > > you think it works better than Anders mind. How, what do you think? > Is > > it better organized? Is it tidy and clean, everything neatly filed > in > > drawers thoroughly labelled? " Fact1 " , " Fact2 " ... Do you therefor > feel > > so superior in front of him? > > > > And dont be so much afraid of me, I love you. Just, common, be a man > > and speak out what is really bothering you. Here are so many helpful > > people... its your chance of a lifetime to take some new STEPS > > (remember the poem?). > > > > Love > > Stefan > > > > P.S. I believe that your mind is as crappily chaotic as anybodies > > mind... > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > > >Oh so wonderful, > > > > > >And you Anders who is not you have already dopped your mind ? But > I > > >fear that dropping failed else I hadn't to read this crap again. > > > > > >Oh Lord, manage the real Anders to find a way to drop the false > > Anders in order to come to No-Anders and so crap will become no- > crap. > > > > > >Werner > > > > > > > > >Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > ><anders_lindman> wrote: > > >> > > >>Only by dropping your mind can you come to the no-mind. Who is > going > > >>to do this dropping? Your are. You are not your mind. > > >> > > >> al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Stefan, Barking like a sheep dog: I did not bark at you I just was strict and stern. Innocence: If your reactions are innocent I cannot decide but the direct translation of innocence from Latin to English is " To be without scars " or " No storing of hurts in memory " . Gurdjeff wrote: " A revengeful person never can be a religious person " . Anti-teacher: I still have the impression that you need friction with persons you suspect as authoritarian and to rub yourself at them like a revolting 16 years old boy. Werner Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > >Everything is ok Stefan, > > >Just cool down. > >Werner > > Hi Werner, you are still up? > > Well, I am cool as a smooth summer breeze... > and everything is ok... no problem. > > Your last postings just sounded pritty hot and I thought you could > need a helping hand. From the change of your tone I can see now that > my attempts have not been in vain... :-) > > So, back to the subject then. What about your mind. Does it often want > to feel superior than other minds? I know this itching from my own > experience, you know. But maybe you really believe that you are > superior than the others. I am not shure... > > Maybe now you believe you are my anti-teacher. Lol. I find it good to > talk about those things... openly. I dont protect myself and I mean > everything honest. I was just very much surprised when - after a > friendly and (maybe too) innocent posting the other day... you > suddenly barked at me like a Schäferhund. > > It has helped me a lot to realize that those kind of attitudes create > only troubles. And that the odd nature of the human mind is basicly > the same for everybody, be it Einstein or Micky Mouse. Dont you think? > Haha! > > So, Werner, now its your turn. > Barking and shooting is one thing, talking is much nicer, isnt it. > > Greetings to Vaterland > Stefan > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Werner, > > > > > > I can see that you are still not " Manns genug " to face the > questions > > > that have been directed to you. It feels sooo good to be well > hidden > > > and still be able to shoot, right? > > > > > > Anders has not claimed that he has dropped his mind. He is not > > > presenting himself as a super being. He exposes how his mind > works > > and > > > is not hiding behind fake attitudes. Could you ever muster up such > > > courage? > > > > > > How does your mind work, Werner? You are giving the impression > that > > > you think it works better than Anders mind. How, what do you > think? > > Is > > > it better organized? Is it tidy and clean, everything neatly > filed > > in > > > drawers thoroughly labelled? " Fact1 " , " Fact2 " ... Do you therefor > > feel > > > so superior in front of him? > > > > > > And dont be so much afraid of me, I love you. Just, common, be a > man > > > and speak out what is really bothering you. Here are so many > helpful > > > people... its your chance of a lifetime to take some new STEPS > > > (remember the poem?). > > > > > > Love > > > Stefan > > > > > > P.S. I believe that your mind is as crappily chaotic as anybodies > > > mind... > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >Oh so wonderful, > > > > > > > >And you Anders who is not you have already dopped your mind ? > But > > I > > > >fear that dropping failed else I hadn't to read this crap again. > > > > > > > >Oh Lord, manage the real Anders to find a way to drop the false > > > Anders in order to come to No-Anders and so crap will become no- > > crap. > > > > > > > >Werner > > > > > > > > > > > >Nisargadatta , " anders_lindman " > > > ><anders_lindman> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>Only by dropping your mind can you come to the no-mind. Who is > > going > > > >>to do this dropping? Your are. You are not your mind. > > > >> > > > >> al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: >Barking like a sheep dog: >I did not bark at you I just was strict and stern. Hi Werner, thank you for taking your turn. Now its me again :-) Strict and stern, you say. Strict and stern telling me that it is not allowed to react to postings that are originally directed to someone else. Are you serious? And it sounded like barking to me. Pretty meaningless. But its over now. >Innocence: >If your reactions are innocent I cannot decide but the direct >translation of innocence from Latin to English is " To be without >scars " or " No storing of hurts in memory " . Gurdjeff wrote: " A >revengeful person never can be a religious person " . I had felt innocent in the way that I had no idea that my questions to you could be received as inappropriate or unfriendly. The reason why I am here is curiosity about others as well as the idea that I can share my stories. I am not defensive nor do I want to provoke defensiveness. I want to provoke honesty, and therefor I sometimes use my sword... I admit. >Anti-teacher: >I still have the impression that you need friction with persons you >suspect as authoritarian and to rub yourself at them like a revolting >16 years old boy. This is an interesting view. Thank you for sharing. Hmm, for sure I dont see you as authoritarian. But friction... yes. My friction with you is... when you are saying " I - Werner - know the truth and who does not understand it is stupid. " When you are taking this pose I suspect hiding, fear, behind this pose. I feel the impulse to give you my feedback... to ease things up, to show you how I would look at that. Maybe I still have a wish that people like you should listen to me... this might be the attitude of a 16 year old... true. But tell me if there is anything wrong about it. My personality is full of leftovers. But I also have seen: as long as one thinks he is " right " he is wrong. This applies to me as well. But I cannot see the separatedness as a fact anymore. I wonder how we all would feel when we could look into each others eyes for a minute each day... some things would change - for sure! But thats science fiction... haha! Have a good day Stefan > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > > >Everything is ok Stefan, > > > > >Just cool down. > > >Werner > > > > Hi Werner, you are still up? > > > > Well, I am cool as a smooth summer breeze... > > and everything is ok... no problem. > > > > Your last postings just sounded pritty hot and I thought you could > > need a helping hand. From the change of your tone I can see now that > > my attempts have not been in vain... :-) > > > > So, back to the subject then. What about your mind. Does it often > want > > to feel superior than other minds? I know this itching from my own > > experience, you know. But maybe you really believe that you are > > superior than the others. I am not shure... > > > > Maybe now you believe you are my anti-teacher. Lol. I find it good > to > > talk about those things... openly. I dont protect myself and I mean > > everything honest. I was just very much surprised when - after a > > friendly and (maybe too) innocent posting the other day... you > > suddenly barked at me like a Schäferhund. > > > > It has helped me a lot to realize that those kind of attitudes > create > > only troubles. And that the odd nature of the human mind is basicly > > the same for everybody, be it Einstein or Micky Mouse. Dont you > think? > > Haha! > > > > So, Werner, now its your turn. > > Barking and shooting is one thing, talking is much nicer, isnt it. > > > > Greetings to Vaterland > > Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Hi Stefferl, Of your reply I just picked out that one: " Maybe I still have a wish that people like you should listen to me... this might be the attitude of a 16 year old... true. But tell me if there is anything wrong about it. My personality is full of leftovers " . Stefan, it is not a question of right or wrong, it rather is a question of going on that way, to go on carrying the burden of fixations you call " leftovers " . These fixations only stay because they call for solution, but there is none. Interested in dying ? Then make this to your daily prayer: I am totally alone, No one loves me. That is the only holy truth. I am no longer seeking others' love. I am no longer seeking others' comfort. I am no longer seeking others' recognition. I am no longer seeking others' understanding. Werner Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > >Barking like a sheep dog: > >I did not bark at you I just was strict and stern. > > Hi Werner, > > thank you for taking your turn. Now its me again :-) > > Strict and stern, you say. Strict and stern telling me that it is not > allowed to react to postings that are originally directed to someone > else. Are you serious? And it sounded like barking to me. Pretty > meaningless. But its over now. > > >Innocence: > >If your reactions are innocent I cannot decide but the direct > >translation of innocence from Latin to English is " To be without > >scars " or " No storing of hurts in memory " . Gurdjeff wrote: " A > >revengeful person never can be a religious person " . > > I had felt innocent in the way that I had no idea that my questions to > you could be received as inappropriate or unfriendly. > > The reason why I am here is curiosity about others as well as the idea > that I can share my stories. I am not defensive nor do I want to > provoke defensiveness. I want to provoke honesty, and therefor I > sometimes use my sword... I admit. > > >Anti-teacher: > >I still have the impression that you need friction with persons you > >suspect as authoritarian and to rub yourself at them like a revolting > >16 years old boy. > > This is an interesting view. Thank you for sharing. Hmm, for sure I > dont see you as authoritarian. > > But friction... yes. My friction with you is... when you are saying " I > - Werner - know the truth and who does not understand it is stupid. " > When you are taking this pose I suspect hiding, fear, behind this > pose. I feel the impulse to give you my feedback... to ease things up, > to show you how I would look at that. Maybe I still have a wish that > people like you should listen to me... this might be the attitude of a > 16 year old... true. But tell me if there is anything wrong about it. > My personality is full of leftovers. > > But I also have seen: as long as one thinks he is " right " he is wrong. > This applies to me as well. But I cannot see the separatedness as a > fact anymore. > > I wonder how we all would feel when we could look into each others > eyes for a minute each day... some things would change - for sure! But > thats science fiction... haha! > > Have a good day > Stefan > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >Everything is ok Stefan, > > > > > > >Just cool down. > > > >Werner > > > > > > Hi Werner, you are still up? > > > > > > Well, I am cool as a smooth summer breeze... > > > and everything is ok... no problem. > > > > > > Your last postings just sounded pritty hot and I thought you could > > > need a helping hand. From the change of your tone I can see now > that > > > my attempts have not been in vain... :-) > > > > > > So, back to the subject then. What about your mind. Does it often > > want > > > to feel superior than other minds? I know this itching from my own > > > experience, you know. But maybe you really believe that you are > > > superior than the others. I am not shure... > > > > > > Maybe now you believe you are my anti-teacher. Lol. I find it > good > > to > > > talk about those things... openly. I dont protect myself and I > mean > > > everything honest. I was just very much surprised when - after a > > > friendly and (maybe too) innocent posting the other day... you > > > suddenly barked at me like a Schäferhund. > > > > > > It has helped me a lot to realize that those kind of attitudes > > create > > > only troubles. And that the odd nature of the human mind is > basicly > > > the same for everybody, be it Einstein or Micky Mouse. Dont you > > think? > > > Haha! > > > > > > So, Werner, now its your turn. > > > Barking and shooting is one thing, talking is much nicer, isnt it. > > > > > > Greetings to Vaterland > > > Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 In a message dated 4/11/05 1:39:19 AM, wwoehr writes: > >Anti-teacher: > >I still have the impression that you need friction with persons you > >suspect as authoritarian and to rub yourself at them like a revolting > .16 years old boy. > > >Werner > P: Yes, good friend, he feels that adolescent need to fight against those he view to have authority, such as Werner. It's a primitive notion held by many warrior tribes. In the American West the Apaches believed that killing a powerful man transferred the power to the killer. But notice how his insecurity shows also in his need to defend himself against even the slightest accusation. How he defended himself when I said he used to sign off by writing: " Kind regards. " What difference could that make, if it was kind regards, or greetings, or any other such nonsense? Why the need to defend? What is he defending? Who is this ghost he wants people to think well of? Who is this fiction who can have any authority? Doesn't he realize how I ignore all his criticisms? I don't care what he thinks, and that gives me freedom. We want to give him that same freedom not to care about what others think about Stefan. The freedom to know there is no Stefan to protect. Well, maybe one day, he will accept that gift, if not from us, from existence itself. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 - Stefan Nisargadatta Monday, April 11, 2005 6:28 AM Re: Drop you mind Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: >Barking like a sheep dog: >I did not bark at you I just was strict and stern. Hi Werner, thank you for taking your turn. Now its me again :-) Strict and stern, you say. Strict and stern telling me that it is not allowed to react to postings that are originally directed to someone else. Are you serious? And it sounded like barking to me. Pretty meaningless. But its over now. >Innocence: >If your reactions are innocent I cannot decide but the direct >translation of innocence from Latin to English is " To be without >scars " or " No storing of hurts in memory " . Gurdjeff wrote: " A >revengeful person never can be a religious person " . I had felt innocent in the way that I had no idea that my questions to you could be received as inappropriate or unfriendly. The reason why I am here is curiosity about others as well as the idea that I can share my stories. I am not defensive nor do I want to provoke defensiveness. I want to provoke honesty, and therefor I sometimes use my sword... I admit. >Anti-teacher: >I still have the impression that you need friction with persons you >suspect as authoritarian and to rub yourself at them like a revolting >16 years old boy. This is an interesting view. Thank you for sharing. Hmm, for sure I dont see you as authoritarian. But friction... yes. My friction with you is... when you are saying " I - Werner - know the truth and who does not understand it is stupid. " When you are taking this pose I suspect hiding, fear, behind this pose. I feel the impulse to give you my feedback... to ease things up, to show you how I would look at that. Maybe I still have a wish that people like you should listen to me... this might be the attitude of a 16 year old... true. But tell me if there is anything wrong about it. My personality is full of leftovers. But I also have seen: as long as one thinks he is " right " he is wrong. This applies to me as well. But I cannot see the separatedness as a fact anymore. I wonder how we all would feel when we could look into each others eyes for a minute each day... some things would change - for sure! But thats science fiction... haha! Have a good day Stefan > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > wrote: > > > > > >Everything is ok Stefan, > > > > >Just cool down. > > >Werner > > > > Hi Werner, you are still up? > > > > Well, I am cool as a smooth summer breeze... > > and everything is ok... no problem. > > > > Your last postings just sounded pritty hot and I thought you could > > need a helping hand. From the change of your tone I can see now that > > my attempts have not been in vain... :-) > > > > So, back to the subject then. What about your mind. Does it often > want > > to feel superior than other minds? I know this itching from my own > > experience, you know. But maybe you really believe that you are > > superior than the others. I am not shure... > > > > Maybe now you believe you are my anti-teacher. Lol. I find it good > to > > talk about those things... openly. I dont protect myself and I mean > > everything honest. I was just very much surprised when - after a > > friendly and (maybe too) innocent posting the other day... you > > suddenly barked at me like a Schäferhund. > > > > It has helped me a lot to realize that those kind of attitudes > create > > only troubles. And that the odd nature of the human mind is basicly > > the same for everybody, be it Einstein or Micky Mouse. Dont you > think? > > Haha! > > > > So, Werner, now its your turn. > > Barking and shooting is one thing, talking is much nicer, isnt it. > > > > Greetings to Vaterland > > Stefan Hey Stefan, " leftovers " are quite often much more delicious....) anna ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 - Werner Woehr Nisargadatta Monday, April 11, 2005 6:57 AM Re: Drop you mind Hi Stefferl, Of your reply I just picked out that one: " Maybe I still have a wish that people like you should listen to me... this might be the attitude of a 16 year old... true. But tell me if there is anything wrong about it. My personality is full of leftovers " . Stefan, it is not a question of right or wrong, it rather is a question of going on that way, to go on carrying the burden of fixations you call " leftovers " . These fixations only stay because they call for solution, but there is none. Interested in dying ? Then make this to your daily prayer: I am totally alone, No one loves me. That is the only holy truth. I am no longer seeking others' love. I am no longer seeking others' comfort. I am no longer seeking others' recognition. I am no longer seeking others' understanding. Werner Hi Monsieu W: Yeah. ok, do ya see this? I am totally alone. No one loves me. That is the only holy truth. I am no longer seeking others' love. I am no longer seeking others' comfort. I am no longer seeking others recognition. I am no longer seeking others' understanding. I am Love in that finding 'i " have died. 'who' might this work for? anna Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > >Barking like a sheep dog: > >I did not bark at you I just was strict and stern. > > Hi Werner, > > thank you for taking your turn. Now its me again :-) > > Strict and stern, you say. Strict and stern telling me that it is not > allowed to react to postings that are originally directed to someone > else. Are you serious? And it sounded like barking to me. Pretty > meaningless. But its over now. > > >Innocence: > >If your reactions are innocent I cannot decide but the direct > >translation of innocence from Latin to English is " To be without > >scars " or " No storing of hurts in memory " . Gurdjeff wrote: " A > >revengeful person never can be a religious person " . > > I had felt innocent in the way that I had no idea that my questions to > you could be received as inappropriate or unfriendly. > > The reason why I am here is curiosity about others as well as the idea > that I can share my stories. I am not defensive nor do I want to > provoke defensiveness. I want to provoke honesty, and therefor I > sometimes use my sword... I admit. > > >Anti-teacher: > >I still have the impression that you need friction with persons you > >suspect as authoritarian and to rub yourself at them like a revolting > >16 years old boy. > > This is an interesting view. Thank you for sharing. Hmm, for sure I > dont see you as authoritarian. > > But friction... yes. My friction with you is... when you are saying " I > - Werner - know the truth and who does not understand it is stupid. " > When you are taking this pose I suspect hiding, fear, behind this > pose. I feel the impulse to give you my feedback... to ease things up, > to show you how I would look at that. Maybe I still have a wish that > people like you should listen to me... this might be the attitude of a > 16 year old... true. But tell me if there is anything wrong about it. > My personality is full of leftovers. > > But I also have seen: as long as one thinks he is " right " he is wrong. > This applies to me as well. But I cannot see the separatedness as a > fact anymore. > > I wonder how we all would feel when we could look into each others > eyes for a minute each day... some things would change - for sure! But > thats science fiction... haha! > > Have a good day > Stefan > > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> > > wrote: > > > > > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >Everything is ok Stefan, > > > > > > >Just cool down. > > > >Werner > > > > > > Hi Werner, you are still up? > > > > > > Well, I am cool as a smooth summer breeze... > > > and everything is ok... no problem. > > > > > > Your last postings just sounded pritty hot and I thought you could > > > need a helping hand. From the change of your tone I can see now > that > > > my attempts have not been in vain... :-) > > > > > > So, back to the subject then. What about your mind. Does it often > > want > > > to feel superior than other minds? I know this itching from my own > > > experience, you know. But maybe you really believe that you are > > > superior than the others. I am not shure... > > > > > > Maybe now you believe you are my anti-teacher. Lol. I find it > good > > to > > > talk about those things... openly. I dont protect myself and I > mean > > > everything honest. I was just very much surprised when - after a > > > friendly and (maybe too) innocent posting the other day... you > > > suddenly barked at me like a Schäferhund. > > > > > > It has helped me a lot to realize that those kind of attitudes > > create > > > only troubles. And that the odd nature of the human mind is > basicly > > > the same for everybody, be it Einstein or Micky Mouse. Dont you > > think? > > > Haha! > > > > > > So, Werner, now its your turn. > > > Barking and shooting is one thing, talking is much nicer, isnt it. > > > > > > Greetings to Vaterland > > > Stefan ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. 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Guest guest Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Who is the addressee of your question, Anna ? Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Monday, April 11, 2005 6:57 AM > Re: Drop you mind > > > > Hi Stefferl, > > Of your reply I just picked out that one: > > " Maybe I still have a wish that people like you should listen to > me... this might be the attitude of a 16 year old... true. But tell > me if there is anything wrong about it. My personality is full of > leftovers " . > > Stefan, it is not a question of right or wrong, it rather is a > question of going on that way, to go on carrying the burden of > fixations you call " leftovers " . > > These fixations only stay because they call for solution, but there > is none. > > Interested in dying ? Then make this to your daily prayer: > > I am totally alone, No one loves me. That is the only holy truth. > I am no longer seeking others' love. > I am no longer seeking others' comfort. > I am no longer seeking others' recognition. > I am no longer seeking others' understanding. > > Werner > > > Hi Monsieu W: > > Yeah. ok, do ya see this? > > I am totally alone. No one loves me. That is the only holy truth. > I am no longer seeking others' love. > I am no longer seeking others' comfort. > I am no longer seeking others recognition. > I am no longer seeking others' understanding. > > I am Love in that finding 'i " have died. > > 'who' might this work for? > > anna > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 any-who that asks. some'one' answers...) - Werner Woehr Nisargadatta Monday, April 11, 2005 7:49 AM Re: Drop you mind Who is the addressee of your question, Anna ? Nisargadatta , " Anna Ruiz " <nli10u@c...> wrote: > > - > Werner Woehr > Nisargadatta > Monday, April 11, 2005 6:57 AM > Re: Drop you mind > > > > Hi Stefferl, > > Of your reply I just picked out that one: > > " Maybe I still have a wish that people like you should listen to > me... this might be the attitude of a 16 year old... true. But tell > me if there is anything wrong about it. My personality is full of > leftovers " . > > Stefan, it is not a question of right or wrong, it rather is a > question of going on that way, to go on carrying the burden of > fixations you call " leftovers " . > > These fixations only stay because they call for solution, but there > is none. > > Interested in dying ? Then make this to your daily prayer: > > I am totally alone, No one loves me. That is the only holy truth. > I am no longer seeking others' love. > I am no longer seeking others' comfort. > I am no longer seeking others' recognition. > I am no longer seeking others' understanding. > > Werner > > > Hi Monsieu W: > > Yeah. ok, do ya see this? > > I am totally alone. No one loves me. That is the only holy truth. > I am no longer seeking others' love. > I am no longer seeking others' comfort. > I am no longer seeking others recognition. > I am no longer seeking others' understanding. > > I am Love in that finding 'i " have died. > > 'who' might this work for? > > anna > ** If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups: /mygroups?edit=1 Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta group and click on Save Changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > >Hi Stefferl, .... >Stefan, it is not a question of right or wrong, it rather is a >question of going on that way, to go on carrying the burden of >fixations you call " leftovers " . Thanks for calling me " Stefferl " ... my mother used to call me like this, it still has a beautiful ringing to me. How have you been called? I recognized that you have been born in difficult times... I have experienced a wonderful thing: all my problems were that I did not accept those " leftovers " . When I accepted them they appeared at the place where they belong: as a part of that fluctuant personality. It was a most wonderful experience when the fighting and wiping stopped. Really I did not even do any " accepting " , it just happend that everything came into its place. There is no burden, Werner. The only burden is when one is trying to get rid of those things. Fighting against windmill sails. This very effort is the burden. >These fixations only stay because they call for solution, but there >is none. Of course there is none. Where there is no problem there is no solution :-) >I am totally alone, No one loves me. That is the only holy truth. >I am no longer seeking others' love. >I am no longer seeking others' comfort. >I am no longer seeking others' recognition. >I am no longer seeking others' understanding. Love keeps one in bondage as long as seeked outside. But I cannot imagine that the seeking drops through mental affirmation. It drops once one discovers the source of all love. Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Stefan, Could follow you with pleasure but then, oh shock, you wrote: " Love keeps one in bondage as long as sought outside. But I cannot imagine that the seeking drops through mental affirmation. It drops once one discovers the source of all love. " Damn, you did it again: entering Disney Land. Wermer Nisargadatta , " Stefan " <s.petersilge@c...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> > wrote: > > > >Hi Stefferl, > ... > >Stefan, it is not a question of right or wrong, it rather is a > >question of going on that way, to go on carrying the burden of > >fixations you call " leftovers " . > > Thanks for calling me " Stefferl " ... my mother used to call me like > this, it still has a beautiful ringing to me. How have you been > called? I recognized that you have been born in difficult times... > > I have experienced a wonderful thing: all my problems were that I did > not accept those " leftovers " . When I accepted them they appeared at > the place where they belong: as a part of that fluctuant personality. > It was a most wonderful experience when the fighting and wiping > stopped. Really I did not even do any " accepting " , it just happend > that everything came into its place. > > There is no burden, Werner. The only burden is when one is trying to > get rid of those things. Fighting against windmill sails. This very > effort is the burden. > > >These fixations only stay because they call for solution, but there > >is none. > > Of course there is none. Where there is no problem there is no > solution :-) > > >I am totally alone, No one loves me. That is the only holy truth. > >I am no longer seeking others' love. > >I am no longer seeking others' comfort. > >I am no longer seeking others' recognition. > >I am no longer seeking others' understanding. > > Love keeps one in bondage as long as seeked outside. But I cannot > imagine that the seeking drops through mental affirmation. It drops > once one discovers the source of all love. > > Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: >Could follow you with pleasure but then, oh shock, you wrote: > > " Love keeps one in bondage as long as sought outside. But I cannot >imagine that the seeking drops through mental affirmation. It drops >once one discovers the source of all love. " Hi Werner, I am so glad that I did shock you. Thats a real success. BTW, I did not tell where the source of love is, do you have any idea? >Damn, you did it again: entering Disney Land. I did not even enter Disneyland, I am LIVING there! In fact it does not matter how one calls it, I know no other land. Do you? Stay tuned, I will send you a whole letter about LOVE in a minute... CU Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > >In a message dated 4/11/05 1:39:19 AM, wwoehr@p... writes: >P: Yes, good friend, he feels that adolescent need to fight against those he view to have authority, such as Werner. It's a primitive notion held by many warrior tribes. In the American West the Apaches believed that killing a powerful man transferred the power to the killer. But notice how his insecurity shows also in his need to defend >himself against even the slightest accusation. Hi Werner! Did you read what Pete just wrote? I got the feeling this was directed to me, so I hope it is ok with you when I post one more time a comment inside one of your threads. I am glad to see that Pete is still not ignoring me. I am glad for him, because this means he does not close himself completely. I can see now what is happening to him. He feels hurt that I do rarely agree to his columns. The fact that I ask questions or give comments means for him " criticizing " . I call it " questioning " . Those questions are my offer to him and everybody here to go deeper than a column can go. Also tell Pete, for me it is not a bad thing, it is a high quality to be able to show insecurity. I am questioning, but I can assure that I did never fight against you, Werner and also not against Pete. I only want your very, very best. This is the truth. The only little fun that I am allowing myself is that I like to bark back when others bark at me. I love it to play ping pong with my leftovers in Disneyland. But please dont take this too seriously, I am known as a very friendly man. But why not scratch some rosty structures sometimes? I mean, are we in a houswifes recipy club here? >How he defended himself when I said he used to sign off by writing: " Kind regards. " What difference could that make, if it was kind regards, or greetings, or any other such nonsense? This issue seems to be very important for Pete, so I will make it easy for him and justify his opinion in retrospect, see below. >Why the need to defend? What is he defending? Who is this ghost he wants people to think well of? Who is this fiction who can have any authority? Doesn't he realize how I ignore all his criticisms? Haha! Yes, I realize how he is continously posting about me to other people, from time to time I even get the honour of a personal adressing. I would not call this " ignoring " . I would call it " obsession " . >I don't care what he thinks, and that gives me freedom. Great, thats my wish for everybody here: freedom! >We want to give him that same freedom not >to care about what others think about Stefan. The freedom to >know there is no Stefan to protect. Well, maybe one day, he will >accept that gift, if not from us, from existence itself. Tell Pete, I thank him from all my heart. As I have told him just in the other posting, I have received that gift already. I have nothing to defend. This seems to be threatening to some, but what can I do? I say it again: at this point I wished we could look into each others eyes. Really. But here the train stops. Tell Pete: kind regards from Stefan! And tell him, that I love him. Best wishes from Disneyland! Stefan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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