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Fear equals the estimated risk of suffering. In that sense fear is a

guide helping us avoid suffering. But the problem with fear is that it

is itself suffering. Fear prevents flow. The more fear, the more

frozen stiff we become. When we experience fear, the chance of

suffering is 100%! And the problem is that we virtually always

experience fear. The fear may be hidden as a frozen contraction in

body and mind, but it is nevertheless always there.

 

I have come to believe that fear is what fuels the thinking mind. And

desire is another fuel for the thinking mind. Desire is the

accelerator, and fear is the brake. Thinking happens as a result of

stepping on the accelerator (desire) with full force, while at the

same time Nature is stepping on the brake (fear) with full force. Can

you get a taste of the conflict involved in such behaviour?

 

The absence of fear would bring about an unbalance in the mind guided

by desires. The world must act in balance and harmony between people.

And only those desires acting in accord with the rest of the world

will be able to uphold such balance. But personal desires are

incapable of functioning in harmony with the world. Why? Because

personal desires are limited to the narrow personal view and personal

knowledge people are equipped with.

 

Desires are not bad because they are wrong. Desires are bad because

they are limited. Not only are desires limited, they are always the

past trying to repeat itself. There is nothing new in desires, and the

world is ever new. As long as those limited and static desires guide a

person, she or he will always live in a state of fear. You cannot

remove fear without upgrading your desires. And you probably don't

know how to upgrade your desires.

 

The only way out of fear is to desire what is now. We want change, we

want adventure, and we want fun stuff to happen. Therefore we look

into the future because the now is mostly giving us fear, boredom,

loneliness, despair, restlessness, frustration and hatred. But this is

so only because your desires are limited and unflexible. If your

desires are converted into desiring the now, then fear is not needed,

and new and interesting stuff will happen by itself because the world

is ever new.

 

When you desire only what is now, then what do you need to be afraid

of? Are you concerned about how you look in the eyes of other people?

Then you are having desires about the future. Then you live in fear.

But is that human?

 

al.

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for what it's worth (probably nothing :-)

 

Without thinking, feeling, seeing,

 

hearing, remembering...

 

 

 

do you exist? ... or not exist?

 

 

 

There is NO separate 'you' or 'me.' Try to find a me - a separate self -

there isn't one.

 

 

 

Look deeply.

 

 

 

You will soon see that all there is, IS ...

 

an unshaken unmoveable peace - spaceless -timeless -

 

 

 

unchanging, untouched, invincible, always so.

 

 

 

That, you are.

 

 

 

Welcome.

 

 

 

Only a separate 'me-entity' can suffer.

 

 

 

When you discover there is no separate 'you' the suffering ends in a single

strike of the scimitar of your own Original Nature

 

 

 

 

 

Fear depends on an illusory 'person' to be fearful ... thinking about its

'future'

 

when there is no person there is no concern for a future 'what will happen

to me' ... and, there can be the organism's natural response to a threat to

it's integrity.

 

a story ...

 

There once was a sage who lived in a lonely temple high in the mountains. He

was visited one day by a wandering monk. As the two were talking a wild

animal roared close by, and the visiting monk, supposedly Enlightened,

jumped. " I see it is still with you, " said the sage...referring, of course,

to the instinctive " passion " of fright. Shortly afterwards, while he was

unobserved for a moment, the visiting monk inscribed the Chinese character

for the Buddha on the rock the sage was accustomed to sit. When the sage

returned to sit down he saw the sacred Name and hesitated to sit. " I see, "

said the wandering monk, " it is still with you! "

 

Love,

charlie

www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

Nisargadatta [Nisargadatta ]On

Behalf Of anders_lindman

Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:24 AM

Nisargadatta

What is fear?

 

 

 

Fear equals the estimated risk of suffering. In that sense fear is a

guide helping us avoid suffering. But the problem with fear is that it

is itself suffering. Fear prevents flow. The more fear, the more

frozen stiff we become. When we experience fear, the chance of

suffering is 100%! And the problem is that we virtually always

experience fear. The fear may be hidden as a frozen contraction in

body and mind, but it is nevertheless always there.

 

I have come to believe that fear is what fuels the thinking mind. And

desire is another fuel for the thinking mind. Desire is the

accelerator, and fear is the brake. Thinking happens as a result of

stepping on the accelerator (desire) with full force, while at the

same time Nature is stepping on the brake (fear) with full force. Can

you get a taste of the conflict involved in such behaviour?

 

The absence of fear would bring about an unbalance in the mind guided

by desires. The world must act in balance and harmony between people.

And only those desires acting in accord with the rest of the world

will be able to uphold such balance. But personal desires are

incapable of functioning in harmony with the world. Why? Because

personal desires are limited to the narrow personal view and personal

knowledge people are equipped with.

 

Desires are not bad because they are wrong. Desires are bad because

they are limited. Not only are desires limited, they are always the

past trying to repeat itself. There is nothing new in desires, and the

world is ever new. As long as those limited and static desires guide a

person, she or he will always live in a state of fear. You cannot

remove fear without upgrading your desires. And you probably don't

know how to upgrade your desires.

 

The only way out of fear is to desire what is now. We want change, we

want adventure, and we want fun stuff to happen. Therefore we look

into the future because the now is mostly giving us fear, boredom,

loneliness, despair, restlessness, frustration and hatred. But this is

so only because your desires are limited and unflexible. If your

desires are converted into desiring the now, then fear is not needed,

and new and interesting stuff will happen by itself because the world

is ever new.

 

When you desire only what is now, then what do you need to be afraid

of? Are you concerned about how you look in the eyes of other people?

Then you are having desires about the future. Then you live in fear.

But is that human?

 

al.

 

 

 

 

 

**

 

If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your

subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups:

 

/mygroups?edit=1

 

Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the Nisargadatta

group and click on Save Changes.

 

 

 

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Guest guest

Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

wrote:

> for what it's worth (probably nothing :-)

>

> Without thinking, feeling, seeing,

>

> hearing, remembering...

>

>

>

> do you exist? ... or not exist?

>

>

>

> There is NO separate 'you' or 'me.' Try to find a me - a separate self -

> there isn't one.

>

>

>

> Look deeply.

>

>

>

> You will soon see that all there is, IS ...

>

> an unshaken unmoveable peace - spaceless -timeless -

>

>

>

> unchanging, untouched, invincible, always so.

>

>

>

> That, you are.

>

>

>

> Welcome.

>

>

>

> Only a separate 'me-entity' can suffer.

>

>

>

> When you discover there is no separate 'you' the suffering ends in a

single

> strike of the scimitar of your own Original Nature

>

>

>

>

>

> Fear depends on an illusory 'person' to be fearful ... thinking

about its

> 'future'

>

> when there is no person there is no concern for a future 'what will

happen

> to me' ... and, there can be the organism's natural response to a

threat to

> it's integrity.

>

> a story ...

>

> There once was a sage who lived in a lonely temple high in the

mountains. He

> was visited one day by a wandering monk. As the two were talking a wild

> animal roared close by, and the visiting monk, supposedly Enlightened,

> jumped. " I see it is still with you, " said the sage...referring, of

course,

> to the instinctive " passion " of fright. Shortly afterwards, while he was

> unobserved for a moment, the visiting monk inscribed the Chinese

character

> for the Buddha on the rock the sage was accustomed to sit. When the sage

> returned to sit down he saw the sacred Name and hesitated to sit. " I

see, "

> said the wandering monk, " it is still with you! "

>

> Love,

> charlie

> www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

Hi charlie,

 

Isn't there an experiencer always? Isn't there at least experience

experienced by you? Can you deny that you exist? Can you deny that

there is a somebody experiencing events and situations? We maybe

cannot say that the experiences imply a separate " me " , yet can you

deny experience itself? Can you deny yourself? And can you truly say

that you do not suffer only because you have discovered that there is

no " me " ? Do you not experience fear?

 

al.

 

>

>

>

> Nisargadatta

[Nisargadatta ]On

> Behalf Of anders_lindman

> Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:24 AM

> Nisargadatta

> What is fear?

>

>

>

> Fear equals the estimated risk of suffering. In that sense fear is a

> guide helping us avoid suffering. But the problem with fear is that it

> is itself suffering. Fear prevents flow. The more fear, the more

> frozen stiff we become. When we experience fear, the chance of

> suffering is 100%! And the problem is that we virtually always

> experience fear. The fear may be hidden as a frozen contraction in

> body and mind, but it is nevertheless always there.

>

> I have come to believe that fear is what fuels the thinking mind. And

> desire is another fuel for the thinking mind. Desire is the

> accelerator, and fear is the brake. Thinking happens as a result of

> stepping on the accelerator (desire) with full force, while at the

> same time Nature is stepping on the brake (fear) with full force. Can

> you get a taste of the conflict involved in such behaviour?

>

> The absence of fear would bring about an unbalance in the mind guided

> by desires. The world must act in balance and harmony between people.

> And only those desires acting in accord with the rest of the world

> will be able to uphold such balance. But personal desires are

> incapable of functioning in harmony with the world. Why? Because

> personal desires are limited to the narrow personal view and personal

> knowledge people are equipped with.

>

> Desires are not bad because they are wrong. Desires are bad because

> they are limited. Not only are desires limited, they are always the

> past trying to repeat itself. There is nothing new in desires, and the

> world is ever new. As long as those limited and static desires guide a

> person, she or he will always live in a state of fear. You cannot

> remove fear without upgrading your desires. And you probably don't

> know how to upgrade your desires.

>

> The only way out of fear is to desire what is now. We want change, we

> want adventure, and we want fun stuff to happen. Therefore we look

> into the future because the now is mostly giving us fear, boredom,

> loneliness, despair, restlessness, frustration and hatred. But this is

> so only because your desires are limited and unflexible. If your

> desires are converted into desiring the now, then fear is not needed,

> and new and interesting stuff will happen by itself because the world

> is ever new.

>

> When you desire only what is now, then what do you need to be afraid

> of? Are you concerned about how you look in the eyes of other people?

> Then you are having desires about the future. Then you live in fear.

> But is that human?

>

> al.

>

>

>

>

>

> **

>

> If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your

> subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups:

>

> /mygroups?edit=1

>

> Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the

Nisargadatta

> group and click on Save Changes.

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

hello Anders

 

sometimes there is an experiencer, sometimes there is experiencing with NO

experiencer. The pointer is to That which allows both 'states' to appear.

 

As Nisargadatta said, " I am that which knows that I am "

 

however, what the bleep do *i* know!?

 

Love,

charlie

www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:46 AM

Nisargadatta

Re: What is fear?

 

 

 

Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

wrote:

> for what it's worth (probably nothing :-)

>

> Without thinking, feeling, seeing,

>

> hearing, remembering...

>

>

>

> do you exist? ... or not exist?

>

>

>

> There is NO separate 'you' or 'me.' Try to find a me - a separate self -

> there isn't one.

>

>

>

> Look deeply.

>

>

>

> You will soon see that all there is, IS ...

>

> an unshaken unmoveable peace - spaceless -timeless -

>

>

>

> unchanging, untouched, invincible, always so.

>

>

>

> That, you are.

>

>

>

> Welcome.

>

>

>

> Only a separate 'me-entity' can suffer.

>

>

>

> When you discover there is no separate 'you' the suffering ends in a

single

> strike of the scimitar of your own Original Nature

>

>

>

>

>

> Fear depends on an illusory 'person' to be fearful ... thinking

about its

> 'future'

>

> when there is no person there is no concern for a future 'what will

happen

> to me' ... and, there can be the organism's natural response to a

threat to

> it's integrity.

>

> a story ...

>

> There once was a sage who lived in a lonely temple high in the

mountains. He

> was visited one day by a wandering monk. As the two were talking a wild

> animal roared close by, and the visiting monk, supposedly Enlightened,

> jumped. " I see it is still with you, " said the sage...referring, of

course,

> to the instinctive " passion " of fright. Shortly afterwards, while he was

> unobserved for a moment, the visiting monk inscribed the Chinese

character

> for the Buddha on the rock the sage was accustomed to sit. When the sage

> returned to sit down he saw the sacred Name and hesitated to sit. " I

see, "

> said the wandering monk, " it is still with you! "

>

> Love,

> charlie

> www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

Hi charlie,

 

Isn't there an experiencer always? Isn't there at least experience

experienced by you? Can you deny that you exist? Can you deny that

there is a somebody experiencing events and situations? We maybe

cannot say that the experiences imply a separate " me " , yet can you

deny experience itself? Can you deny yourself? And can you truly say

that you do not suffer only because you have discovered that there is

no " me " ? Do you not experience fear?

 

al.

 

>

>

>

> Nisargadatta

[Nisargadatta ]On

> Behalf Of anders_lindman

> Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:24 AM

> Nisargadatta

> What is fear?

>

>

>

> Fear equals the estimated risk of suffering. In that sense fear is a

> guide helping us avoid suffering. But the problem with fear is that it

> is itself suffering. Fear prevents flow. The more fear, the more

> frozen stiff we become. When we experience fear, the chance of

> suffering is 100%! And the problem is that we virtually always

> experience fear. The fear may be hidden as a frozen contraction in

> body and mind, but it is nevertheless always there.

>

> I have come to believe that fear is what fuels the thinking mind. And

> desire is another fuel for the thinking mind. Desire is the

> accelerator, and fear is the brake. Thinking happens as a result of

> stepping on the accelerator (desire) with full force, while at the

> same time Nature is stepping on the brake (fear) with full force. Can

> you get a taste of the conflict involved in such behaviour?

>

> The absence of fear would bring about an unbalance in the mind guided

> by desires. The world must act in balance and harmony between people.

> And only those desires acting in accord with the rest of the world

> will be able to uphold such balance. But personal desires are

> incapable of functioning in harmony with the world. Why? Because

> personal desires are limited to the narrow personal view and personal

> knowledge people are equipped with.

>

> Desires are not bad because they are wrong. Desires are bad because

> they are limited. Not only are desires limited, they are always the

> past trying to repeat itself. There is nothing new in desires, and the

> world is ever new. As long as those limited and static desires guide a

> person, she or he will always live in a state of fear. You cannot

> remove fear without upgrading your desires. And you probably don't

> know how to upgrade your desires.

>

> The only way out of fear is to desire what is now. We want change, we

> want adventure, and we want fun stuff to happen. Therefore we look

> into the future because the now is mostly giving us fear, boredom,

> loneliness, despair, restlessness, frustration and hatred. But this is

> so only because your desires are limited and unflexible. If your

> desires are converted into desiring the now, then fear is not needed,

> and new and interesting stuff will happen by itself because the world

> is ever new.

>

> When you desire only what is now, then what do you need to be afraid

> of? Are you concerned about how you look in the eyes of other people?

> Then you are having desires about the future. Then you live in fear.

> But is that human?

>

> al.

>

>

>

>

>

> **

>

> If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your

> subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups:

>

> /mygroups?edit=1

>

> Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the

Nisargadatta

> group and click on Save Changes.

>

>

>

>

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Share on other sites

Guest guest

Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

wrote:

> hello Anders

>

> sometimes there is an experiencer, sometimes there is experiencing

with NO

> experiencer. The pointer is to That which allows both 'states' to

appear.

>

> As Nisargadatta said, " I am that which knows that I am "

>

> however, what the bleep do *i* know!?

>

> Love,

> charlie

> www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

I believe that there will always be an experiencer. In fact, I don't

think there can be a world without a conscious experiencer. That

experiencer is the " I am " , the " I am that which knows that I am " .

 

But what about dreamless sleep? Surely there is a world there even

when I am in deep sleep. Not necessarily. Pardon me for nagging about

this issue: but we do not know if we ever have been in dreamless

sleep. A memory of having been asleep is not automatically the same

thing as real sleep. Maybe there is no such thing as sleep. Maybe

awareness is always aware and without awareness there is no world.

 

al.

 

>

>

>

> anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

> Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:46 AM

> Nisargadatta

> Re: What is fear?

>

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

> wrote:

> > for what it's worth (probably nothing :-)

> >

> > Without thinking, feeling, seeing,

> >

> > hearing, remembering...

> >

> >

> >

> > do you exist? ... or not exist?

> >

> >

> >

> > There is NO separate 'you' or 'me.' Try to find a me - a

separate self -

> > there isn't one.

> >

> >

> >

> > Look deeply.

> >

> >

> >

> > You will soon see that all there is, IS ...

> >

> > an unshaken unmoveable peace - spaceless -timeless -

> >

> >

> >

> > unchanging, untouched, invincible, always so.

> >

> >

> >

> > That, you are.

> >

> >

> >

> > Welcome.

> >

> >

> >

> > Only a separate 'me-entity' can suffer.

> >

> >

> >

> > When you discover there is no separate 'you' the suffering ends in a

> single

> > strike of the scimitar of your own Original Nature

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Fear depends on an illusory 'person' to be fearful ... thinking

> about its

> > 'future'

> >

> > when there is no person there is no concern for a future 'what will

> happen

> > to me' ... and, there can be the organism's natural response to a

> threat to

> > it's integrity.

> >

> > a story ...

> >

> > There once was a sage who lived in a lonely temple high in the

> mountains. He

> > was visited one day by a wandering monk. As the two were talking

a wild

> > animal roared close by, and the visiting monk, supposedly

Enlightened,

> > jumped. " I see it is still with you, " said the sage...referring, of

> course,

> > to the instinctive " passion " of fright. Shortly afterwards,

while he was

> > unobserved for a moment, the visiting monk inscribed the Chinese

> character

> > for the Buddha on the rock the sage was accustomed to sit. When

the sage

> > returned to sit down he saw the sacred Name and hesitated to sit. " I

> see, "

> > said the wandering monk, " it is still with you! "

> >

> > Love,

> > charlie

> > www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

>

>

> Hi charlie,

>

> Isn't there an experiencer always? Isn't there at least experience

> experienced by you? Can you deny that you exist? Can you deny that

> there is a somebody experiencing events and situations? We maybe

> cannot say that the experiences imply a separate " me " , yet can you

> deny experience itself? Can you deny yourself? And can you truly say

> that you do not suffer only because you have discovered that there is

> no " me " ? Do you not experience fear?

>

> al.

>

> >

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta

> [Nisargadatta ]On

> > Behalf Of anders_lindman

> > Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:24 AM

> > Nisargadatta

> > What is fear?

> >

> >

> >

> > Fear equals the estimated risk of suffering. In that sense

fear is a

> > guide helping us avoid suffering. But the problem with fear is

that it

> > is itself suffering. Fear prevents flow. The more fear, the more

> > frozen stiff we become. When we experience fear, the chance of

> > suffering is 100%! And the problem is that we virtually always

> > experience fear. The fear may be hidden as a frozen contraction in

> > body and mind, but it is nevertheless always there.

> >

> > I have come to believe that fear is what fuels the thinking

mind. And

> > desire is another fuel for the thinking mind. Desire is the

> > accelerator, and fear is the brake. Thinking happens as a

result of

> > stepping on the accelerator (desire) with full force, while at the

> > same time Nature is stepping on the brake (fear) with full

force. Can

> > you get a taste of the conflict involved in such behaviour?

> >

> > The absence of fear would bring about an unbalance in the mind

guided

> > by desires. The world must act in balance and harmony between

people.

> > And only those desires acting in accord with the rest of the world

> > will be able to uphold such balance. But personal desires are

> > incapable of functioning in harmony with the world. Why? Because

> > personal desires are limited to the narrow personal view and

personal

> > knowledge people are equipped with.

> >

> > Desires are not bad because they are wrong. Desires are bad

because

> > they are limited. Not only are desires limited, they are

always the

> > past trying to repeat itself. There is nothing new in desires,

and the

> > world is ever new. As long as those limited and static desires

guide a

> > person, she or he will always live in a state of fear. You cannot

> > remove fear without upgrading your desires. And you probably don't

> > know how to upgrade your desires.

> >

> > The only way out of fear is to desire what is now. We want

change, we

> > want adventure, and we want fun stuff to happen. Therefore we look

> > into the future because the now is mostly giving us fear, boredom,

> > loneliness, despair, restlessness, frustration and hatred. But

this is

> > so only because your desires are limited and unflexible. If your

> > desires are converted into desiring the now, then fear is not

needed,

> > and new and interesting stuff will happen by itself because

the world

> > is ever new.

> >

> > When you desire only what is now, then what do you need to be

afraid

> > of? Are you concerned about how you look in the eyes of other

people?

> > Then you are having desires about the future. Then you live in

fear.

> > But is that human?

> >

> > al.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > **

> >

> > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your

> > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups:

> >

> > /mygroups?edit=1

> >

> > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the

> Nisargadatta

> > group and click on Save Changes.

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Guest guest

Anders,

 

PS:

 

I am NOT a " Non-Duality Teacher. " I am a Cadillac salesman in Southern

California! Yes, I have a website and sell a book but these are

entertainment for those like me who love this crap!

 

There is a very revealing text at

http://www.inner-quest.org/Real_Advaita.htm

 

Highly recommended, as I too spent time and a LOT of money with one of the

'advaita-gurus' that are the subject of the text. Real lovers of

Nisargadatta will be amused and bemused by the carryings-on.

 

Love,

charlie

www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

Charlie Hayes [awakenow]

Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:57 AM

Nisargadatta

RE: Re: What is fear?

 

 

hello Anders

 

sometimes there is an experiencer, sometimes there is experiencing with NO

experiencer. The pointer is to That which allows both 'states' to appear.

 

As Nisargadatta said, " I am that which knows that I am "

 

however, what the bleep do *i* know!?

 

Love,

charlie

www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:46 AM

Nisargadatta

Re: What is fear?

 

 

 

Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

wrote:

> for what it's worth (probably nothing :-)

>

> Without thinking, feeling, seeing,

>

> hearing, remembering...

>

>

>

> do you exist? ... or not exist?

>

>

>

> There is NO separate 'you' or 'me.' Try to find a me - a separate

self -

> there isn't one.

>

>

>

> Look deeply.

>

>

>

> You will soon see that all there is, IS ...

>

> an unshaken unmoveable peace - spaceless -timeless -

>

>

>

> unchanging, untouched, invincible, always so.

>

>

>

> That, you are.

>

>

>

> Welcome.

>

>

>

> Only a separate 'me-entity' can suffer.

>

>

>

> When you discover there is no separate 'you' the suffering ends in a

single

> strike of the scimitar of your own Original Nature

>

>

>

>

>

> Fear depends on an illusory 'person' to be fearful ... thinking

about its

> 'future'

>

> when there is no person there is no concern for a future 'what will

happen

> to me' ... and, there can be the organism's natural response to a

threat to

> it's integrity.

>

> a story ...

>

> There once was a sage who lived in a lonely temple high in the

mountains. He

> was visited one day by a wandering monk. As the two were talking a

wild

> animal roared close by, and the visiting monk, supposedly Enlightened,

> jumped. " I see it is still with you, " said the sage...referring, of

course,

> to the instinctive " passion " of fright. Shortly afterwards, while he

was

> unobserved for a moment, the visiting monk inscribed the Chinese

character

> for the Buddha on the rock the sage was accustomed to sit. When the

sage

> returned to sit down he saw the sacred Name and hesitated to sit. " I

see, "

> said the wandering monk, " it is still with you! "

>

> Love,

> charlie

> www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

Hi charlie,

 

Isn't there an experiencer always? Isn't there at least experience

experienced by you? Can you deny that you exist? Can you deny that

there is a somebody experiencing events and situations? We maybe

cannot say that the experiences imply a separate " me " , yet can you

deny experience itself? Can you deny yourself? And can you truly say

that you do not suffer only because you have discovered that there is

no " me " ? Do you not experience fear?

 

al.

 

>

>

>

> Nisargadatta

[Nisargadatta ]On

> Behalf Of anders_lindman

> Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:24 AM

> Nisargadatta

> What is fear?

>

>

>

> Fear equals the estimated risk of suffering. In that sense fear is a

> guide helping us avoid suffering. But the problem with fear is that

it

> is itself suffering. Fear prevents flow. The more fear, the more

> frozen stiff we become. When we experience fear, the chance of

> suffering is 100%! And the problem is that we virtually always

> experience fear. The fear may be hidden as a frozen contraction in

> body and mind, but it is nevertheless always there.

>

> I have come to believe that fear is what fuels the thinking mind.

And

> desire is another fuel for the thinking mind. Desire is the

> accelerator, and fear is the brake. Thinking happens as a result of

> stepping on the accelerator (desire) with full force, while at the

> same time Nature is stepping on the brake (fear) with full force.

Can

> you get a taste of the conflict involved in such behaviour?

>

> The absence of fear would bring about an unbalance in the mind

guided

> by desires. The world must act in balance and harmony between

people.

> And only those desires acting in accord with the rest of the world

> will be able to uphold such balance. But personal desires are

> incapable of functioning in harmony with the world. Why? Because

> personal desires are limited to the narrow personal view and

personal

> knowledge people are equipped with.

>

> Desires are not bad because they are wrong. Desires are bad because

> they are limited. Not only are desires limited, they are always the

> past trying to repeat itself. There is nothing new in desires, and

the

> world is ever new. As long as those limited and static desires guide

a

> person, she or he will always live in a state of fear. You cannot

> remove fear without upgrading your desires. And you probably don't

> know how to upgrade your desires.

>

> The only way out of fear is to desire what is now. We want change,

we

> want adventure, and we want fun stuff to happen. Therefore we look

> into the future because the now is mostly giving us fear, boredom,

> loneliness, despair, restlessness, frustration and hatred. But this

is

> so only because your desires are limited and unflexible. If your

> desires are converted into desiring the now, then fear is not

needed,

> and new and interesting stuff will happen by itself because the

world

> is ever new.

>

> When you desire only what is now, then what do you need to be afraid

> of? Are you concerned about how you look in the eyes of other

people?

> Then you are having desires about the future. Then you live in fear.

> But is that human?

>

> al.

>

>

>

>

>

> **

>

> If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your

> subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups:

>

> /mygroups?edit=1

>

> Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the

Nisargadatta

> group and click on Save Changes.

>

>

>

>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

wrote:

> Anders,

>

> PS:

>

> I am NOT a " Non-Duality Teacher. " I am a Cadillac salesman in Southern

> California! Yes, I have a website and sell a book but these are

> entertainment for those like me who love this crap!

>

> There is a very revealing text at

> http://www.inner-quest.org/Real_Advaita.htm

>

> Highly recommended, as I too spent time and a LOT of money with one

of the

> 'advaita-gurus' that are the subject of the text. Real lovers of

> Nisargadatta will be amused and bemused by the carryings-on.

>

> Love,

> charlie

> www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

Cadillacs! Is that car company still running? Just kidding. In fact, I

would love to have a Cadillac myself. :)

 

al.

 

>

>

>

> Charlie Hayes [awakenow@e...]

> Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:57 AM

> Nisargadatta

> RE: Re: What is fear?

>

>

> hello Anders

>

> sometimes there is an experiencer, sometimes there is experiencing

with NO

> experiencer. The pointer is to That which allows both 'states' to

appear.

>

> As Nisargadatta said, " I am that which knows that I am "

>

> however, what the bleep do *i* know!?

>

> Love,

> charlie

> www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

>

>

>

> anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

> Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:46 AM

> Nisargadatta

> Re: What is fear?

>

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

> wrote:

> > for what it's worth (probably nothing :-)

> >

> > Without thinking, feeling, seeing,

> >

> > hearing, remembering...

> >

> >

> >

> > do you exist? ... or not exist?

> >

> >

> >

> > There is NO separate 'you' or 'me.' Try to find a me - a separate

> self -

> > there isn't one.

> >

> >

> >

> > Look deeply.

> >

> >

> >

> > You will soon see that all there is, IS ...

> >

> > an unshaken unmoveable peace - spaceless -timeless -

> >

> >

> >

> > unchanging, untouched, invincible, always so.

> >

> >

> >

> > That, you are.

> >

> >

> >

> > Welcome.

> >

> >

> >

> > Only a separate 'me-entity' can suffer.

> >

> >

> >

> > When you discover there is no separate 'you' the suffering

ends in a

> single

> > strike of the scimitar of your own Original Nature

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Fear depends on an illusory 'person' to be fearful ... thinking

> about its

> > 'future'

> >

> > when there is no person there is no concern for a future 'what

will

> happen

> > to me' ... and, there can be the organism's natural response to a

> threat to

> > it's integrity.

> >

> > a story ...

> >

> > There once was a sage who lived in a lonely temple high in the

> mountains. He

> > was visited one day by a wandering monk. As the two were talking a

> wild

> > animal roared close by, and the visiting monk, supposedly

Enlightened,

> > jumped. " I see it is still with you, " said the

sage...referring, of

> course,

> > to the instinctive " passion " of fright. Shortly afterwards,

while he

> was

> > unobserved for a moment, the visiting monk inscribed the Chinese

> character

> > for the Buddha on the rock the sage was accustomed to sit.

When the

> sage

> > returned to sit down he saw the sacred Name and hesitated to

sit. " I

> see, "

> > said the wandering monk, " it is still with you! "

> >

> > Love,

> > charlie

> > www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

>

>

> Hi charlie,

>

> Isn't there an experiencer always? Isn't there at least experience

> experienced by you? Can you deny that you exist? Can you deny that

> there is a somebody experiencing events and situations? We maybe

> cannot say that the experiences imply a separate " me " , yet can you

> deny experience itself? Can you deny yourself? And can you truly say

> that you do not suffer only because you have discovered that

there is

> no " me " ? Do you not experience fear?

>

> al.

>

> >

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta

> [Nisargadatta ]On

> > Behalf Of anders_lindman

> > Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:24 AM

> > Nisargadatta

> > What is fear?

> >

> >

> >

> > Fear equals the estimated risk of suffering. In that sense

fear is a

> > guide helping us avoid suffering. But the problem with fear

is that

> it

> > is itself suffering. Fear prevents flow. The more fear, the more

> > frozen stiff we become. When we experience fear, the chance of

> > suffering is 100%! And the problem is that we virtually always

> > experience fear. The fear may be hidden as a frozen

contraction in

> > body and mind, but it is nevertheless always there.

> >

> > I have come to believe that fear is what fuels the thinking

mind.

> And

> > desire is another fuel for the thinking mind. Desire is the

> > accelerator, and fear is the brake. Thinking happens as a

result of

> > stepping on the accelerator (desire) with full force, while

at the

> > same time Nature is stepping on the brake (fear) with full

force.

> Can

> > you get a taste of the conflict involved in such behaviour?

> >

> > The absence of fear would bring about an unbalance in the mind

> guided

> > by desires. The world must act in balance and harmony between

> people.

> > And only those desires acting in accord with the rest of the

world

> > will be able to uphold such balance. But personal desires are

> > incapable of functioning in harmony with the world. Why? Because

> > personal desires are limited to the narrow personal view and

> personal

> > knowledge people are equipped with.

> >

> > Desires are not bad because they are wrong. Desires are bad

because

> > they are limited. Not only are desires limited, they are

always the

> > past trying to repeat itself. There is nothing new in

desires, and

> the

> > world is ever new. As long as those limited and static

desires guide

> a

> > person, she or he will always live in a state of fear. You

cannot

> > remove fear without upgrading your desires. And you probably

don't

> > know how to upgrade your desires.

> >

> > The only way out of fear is to desire what is now. We want

change,

> we

> > want adventure, and we want fun stuff to happen. Therefore

we look

> > into the future because the now is mostly giving us fear,

boredom,

> > loneliness, despair, restlessness, frustration and hatred.

But this

> is

> > so only because your desires are limited and unflexible. If your

> > desires are converted into desiring the now, then fear is not

> needed,

> > and new and interesting stuff will happen by itself because the

> world

> > is ever new.

> >

> > When you desire only what is now, then what do you need to

be afraid

> > of? Are you concerned about how you look in the eyes of other

> people?

> > Then you are having desires about the future. Then you live

in fear.

> > But is that human?

> >

> > al.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > **

> >

> > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your

> > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups:

> >

> > /mygroups?edit=1

> >

> > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the

> Nisargadatta

> > group and click on Save Changes.

> >

> >

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

who am i to argue <smiling inside> ? Your point about deep sleep is one i

have been quite interested in and puzzled by. There was one time that I

slept deeply and was snoring yet Awareness was aware and there was an

unbounded I am ... all happening at once. Lasted a few minutes, never

appeared since.

 

It's all such fun to discuss though, on days I don't have to chop wood and

carry water (aka sell cars.)

 

 

anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

Thursday, April 14, 2005 7:22 AM

Nisargadatta

Re: What is fear?

 

 

 

Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

wrote:

> hello Anders

>

> sometimes there is an experiencer, sometimes there is experiencing

with NO

> experiencer. The pointer is to That which allows both 'states' to

appear.

>

> As Nisargadatta said, " I am that which knows that I am "

>

> however, what the bleep do *i* know!?

>

> Love,

> charlie

> www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

I believe that there will always be an experiencer. In fact, I don't

think there can be a world without a conscious experiencer. That

experiencer is the " I am " , the " I am that which knows that I am " .

 

But what about dreamless sleep? Surely there is a world there even

when I am in deep sleep. Not necessarily. Pardon me for nagging about

this issue: but we do not know if we ever have been in dreamless

sleep. A memory of having been asleep is not automatically the same

thing as real sleep. Maybe there is no such thing as sleep. Maybe

awareness is always aware and without awareness there is no world.

 

al.

 

>

>

>

> anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

> Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:46 AM

> Nisargadatta

> Re: What is fear?

>

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

> wrote:

> > for what it's worth (probably nothing :-)

> >

> > Without thinking, feeling, seeing,

> >

> > hearing, remembering...

> >

> >

> >

> > do you exist? ... or not exist?

> >

> >

> >

> > There is NO separate 'you' or 'me.' Try to find a me - a

separate self -

> > there isn't one.

> >

> >

> >

> > Look deeply.

> >

> >

> >

> > You will soon see that all there is, IS ...

> >

> > an unshaken unmoveable peace - spaceless -timeless -

> >

> >

> >

> > unchanging, untouched, invincible, always so.

> >

> >

> >

> > That, you are.

> >

> >

> >

> > Welcome.

> >

> >

> >

> > Only a separate 'me-entity' can suffer.

> >

> >

> >

> > When you discover there is no separate 'you' the suffering ends in a

> single

> > strike of the scimitar of your own Original Nature

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Fear depends on an illusory 'person' to be fearful ... thinking

> about its

> > 'future'

> >

> > when there is no person there is no concern for a future 'what will

> happen

> > to me' ... and, there can be the organism's natural response to a

> threat to

> > it's integrity.

> >

> > a story ...

> >

> > There once was a sage who lived in a lonely temple high in the

> mountains. He

> > was visited one day by a wandering monk. As the two were talking

a wild

> > animal roared close by, and the visiting monk, supposedly

Enlightened,

> > jumped. " I see it is still with you, " said the sage...referring, of

> course,

> > to the instinctive " passion " of fright. Shortly afterwards,

while he was

> > unobserved for a moment, the visiting monk inscribed the Chinese

> character

> > for the Buddha on the rock the sage was accustomed to sit. When

the sage

> > returned to sit down he saw the sacred Name and hesitated to sit. " I

> see, "

> > said the wandering monk, " it is still with you! "

> >

> > Love,

> > charlie

> > www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

>

>

> Hi charlie,

>

> Isn't there an experiencer always? Isn't there at least experience

> experienced by you? Can you deny that you exist? Can you deny that

> there is a somebody experiencing events and situations? We maybe

> cannot say that the experiences imply a separate " me " , yet can you

> deny experience itself? Can you deny yourself? And can you truly say

> that you do not suffer only because you have discovered that there is

> no " me " ? Do you not experience fear?

>

> al.

>

> >

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta

> [Nisargadatta ]On

> > Behalf Of anders_lindman

> > Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:24 AM

> > Nisargadatta

> > What is fear?

> >

> >

> >

> > Fear equals the estimated risk of suffering. In that sense

fear is a

> > guide helping us avoid suffering. But the problem with fear is

that it

> > is itself suffering. Fear prevents flow. The more fear, the more

> > frozen stiff we become. When we experience fear, the chance of

> > suffering is 100%! And the problem is that we virtually always

> > experience fear. The fear may be hidden as a frozen contraction in

> > body and mind, but it is nevertheless always there.

> >

> > I have come to believe that fear is what fuels the thinking

mind. And

> > desire is another fuel for the thinking mind. Desire is the

> > accelerator, and fear is the brake. Thinking happens as a

result of

> > stepping on the accelerator (desire) with full force, while at the

> > same time Nature is stepping on the brake (fear) with full

force. Can

> > you get a taste of the conflict involved in such behaviour?

> >

> > The absence of fear would bring about an unbalance in the mind

guided

> > by desires. The world must act in balance and harmony between

people.

> > And only those desires acting in accord with the rest of the world

> > will be able to uphold such balance. But personal desires are

> > incapable of functioning in harmony with the world. Why? Because

> > personal desires are limited to the narrow personal view and

personal

> > knowledge people are equipped with.

> >

> > Desires are not bad because they are wrong. Desires are bad

because

> > they are limited. Not only are desires limited, they are

always the

> > past trying to repeat itself. There is nothing new in desires,

and the

> > world is ever new. As long as those limited and static desires

guide a

> > person, she or he will always live in a state of fear. You cannot

> > remove fear without upgrading your desires. And you probably don't

> > know how to upgrade your desires.

> >

> > The only way out of fear is to desire what is now. We want

change, we

> > want adventure, and we want fun stuff to happen. Therefore we look

> > into the future because the now is mostly giving us fear, boredom,

> > loneliness, despair, restlessness, frustration and hatred. But

this is

> > so only because your desires are limited and unflexible. If your

> > desires are converted into desiring the now, then fear is not

needed,

> > and new and interesting stuff will happen by itself because

the world

> > is ever new.

> >

> > When you desire only what is now, then what do you need to be

afraid

> > of? Are you concerned about how you look in the eyes of other

people?

> > Then you are having desires about the future. Then you live in

fear.

> > But is that human?

> >

> > al.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > **

> >

> > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your

> > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups:

> >

> > /mygroups?edit=1

> >

> > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the

> Nisargadatta

> > group and click on Save Changes.

> >

> >

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

-

Charlie Hayes

Nisargadatta

Thursday, April 14, 2005 10:35 AM

RE: Re: What is fear?

 

 

who am i to argue <smiling inside> ? Your point about deep sleep is one i

have been quite interested in and puzzled by. There was one time that I

slept deeply and was snoring yet Awareness was aware and there was an

unbounded I am ... all happening at once. Lasted a few minutes, never

appeared since.

 

It's all such fun to discuss though, on days I don't have to chop wood and

carry water (aka sell cars.)

 

anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

Thursday, April 14, 2005 7:22 AM

Nisargadatta

Re: What is fear?

 

 

 

Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

wrote:

> hello Anders

>

> sometimes there is an experiencer, sometimes there is experiencing

with NO

> experiencer. The pointer is to That which allows both 'states' to

appear.

>

> As Nisargadatta said, " I am that which knows that I am "

>

> however, what the bleep do *i* know!?

>

> Love,

> charlie

> www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

I believe that there will always be an experiencer. In fact, I don't

think there can be a world without a conscious experiencer. That

experiencer is the " I am " , the " I am that which knows that I am " .

 

But what about dreamless sleep? Surely there is a world there even

when I am in deep sleep. Not necessarily. Pardon me for nagging about

this issue: but we do not know if we ever have been in dreamless

sleep. A memory of having been asleep is not automatically the same

thing as real sleep. Maybe there is no such thing as sleep. Maybe

awareness is always aware and without awareness there is no world.

 

al.

 

 

 

Hi Charlie,

 

Cadillac car salesmen, realtors who lease cadillacs, what the **** is the

world coming to?

 

Love,

Anna

 

p.s. Falling asleep, waking up, falling asleep while waking up, sleeping

while awake, etc. happens,

and here we are.....:))))

 

and the snoring......Now, that doesn't let any-one sleep:)))

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

>

>

> anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

> Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:46 AM

> Nisargadatta

> Re: What is fear?

>

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

> wrote:

> > for what it's worth (probably nothing :-)

> >

> > Without thinking, feeling, seeing,

> >

> > hearing, remembering...

> >

> >

> >

> > do you exist? ... or not exist?

> >

> >

> >

> > There is NO separate 'you' or 'me.' Try to find a me - a

separate self -

> > there isn't one.

> >

> >

> >

> > Look deeply.

> >

> >

> >

> > You will soon see that all there is, IS ...

> >

> > an unshaken unmoveable peace - spaceless -timeless -

> >

> >

> >

> > unchanging, untouched, invincible, always so.

> >

> >

> >

> > That, you are.

> >

> >

> >

> > Welcome.

> >

> >

> >

> > Only a separate 'me-entity' can suffer.

> >

> >

> >

> > When you discover there is no separate 'you' the suffering ends in a

> single

> > strike of the scimitar of your own Original Nature

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Fear depends on an illusory 'person' to be fearful ... thinking

> about its

> > 'future'

> >

> > when there is no person there is no concern for a future 'what will

> happen

> > to me' ... and, there can be the organism's natural response to a

> threat to

> > it's integrity.

> >

> > a story ...

> >

> > There once was a sage who lived in a lonely temple high in the

> mountains. He

> > was visited one day by a wandering monk. As the two were talking

a wild

> > animal roared close by, and the visiting monk, supposedly

Enlightened,

> > jumped. " I see it is still with you, " said the sage...referring, of

> course,

> > to the instinctive " passion " of fright. Shortly afterwards,

while he was

> > unobserved for a moment, the visiting monk inscribed the Chinese

> character

> > for the Buddha on the rock the sage was accustomed to sit. When

the sage

> > returned to sit down he saw the sacred Name and hesitated to sit. " I

> see, "

> > said the wandering monk, " it is still with you! "

> >

> > Love,

> > charlie

> > www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

>

>

> Hi charlie,

>

> Isn't there an experiencer always? Isn't there at least experience

> experienced by you? Can you deny that you exist? Can you deny that

> there is a somebody experiencing events and situations? We maybe

> cannot say that the experiences imply a separate " me " , yet can you

> deny experience itself? Can you deny yourself? And can you truly say

> that you do not suffer only because you have discovered that there is

> no " me " ? Do you not experience fear?

>

> al.

>

> >

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta

> [Nisargadatta ]On

> > Behalf Of anders_lindman

> > Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:24 AM

> > Nisargadatta

> > What is fear?

> >

> >

> >

> > Fear equals the estimated risk of suffering. In that sense

fear is a

> > guide helping us avoid suffering. But the problem with fear is

that it

> > is itself suffering. Fear prevents flow. The more fear, the more

> > frozen stiff we become. When we experience fear, the chance of

> > suffering is 100%! And the problem is that we virtually always

> > experience fear. The fear may be hidden as a frozen contraction in

> > body and mind, but it is nevertheless always there.

> >

> > I have come to believe that fear is what fuels the thinking

mind. And

> > desire is another fuel for the thinking mind. Desire is the

> > accelerator, and fear is the brake. Thinking happens as a

result of

> > stepping on the accelerator (desire) with full force, while at the

> > same time Nature is stepping on the brake (fear) with full

force. Can

> > you get a taste of the conflict involved in such behaviour?

> >

> > The absence of fear would bring about an unbalance in the mind

guided

> > by desires. The world must act in balance and harmony between

people.

> > And only those desires acting in accord with the rest of the world

> > will be able to uphold such balance. But personal desires are

> > incapable of functioning in harmony with the world. Why? Because

> > personal desires are limited to the narrow personal view and

personal

> > knowledge people are equipped with.

> >

> > Desires are not bad because they are wrong. Desires are bad

because

> > they are limited. Not only are desires limited, they are

always the

> > past trying to repeat itself. There is nothing new in desires,

and the

> > world is ever new. As long as those limited and static desires

guide a

> > person, she or he will always live in a state of fear. You cannot

> > remove fear without upgrading your desires. And you probably don't

> > know how to upgrade your desires.

> >

> > The only way out of fear is to desire what is now. We want

change, we

> > want adventure, and we want fun stuff to happen. Therefore we look

> > into the future because the now is mostly giving us fear, boredom,

> > loneliness, despair, restlessness, frustration and hatred. But

this is

> > so only because your desires are limited and unflexible. If your

> > desires are converted into desiring the now, then fear is not

needed,

> > and new and interesting stuff will happen by itself because

the world

> > is ever new.

> >

> > When you desire only what is now, then what do you need to be

afraid

> > of? Are you concerned about how you look in the eyes of other

people?

> > Then you are having desires about the future. Then you live in

fear.

> > But is that human?

> >

> > al.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > **

> >

> > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change your

> > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My Groups:

> >

> > /mygroups?edit=1

> >

> > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the

> Nisargadatta

> > group and click on Save Changes.

> >

> >

> >

> >

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Guest guest

Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

wrote:

> who am i to argue <smiling inside> ? Your point about deep sleep is

one i

> have been quite interested in and puzzled by. There was one time that I

> slept deeply and was snoring yet Awareness was aware and there was an

> unbounded I am ... all happening at once. Lasted a few minutes, never

> appeared since.

>

> It's all such fun to discuss though, on days I don't have to chop

wood and

> carry water (aka sell cars.)

 

 

I imagine selling cars brings you in contact with people having

desires. They think: " I want that car but can I afford it, or should I

buy a cheaper car, or maybe I should buy a Volvo? " :)))) Then you tell

the customer: " I can see that you are filled with doubt and

uncertainty, but you didn't come here to make a choice, you have

already made it " :)

 

al.

 

>

>

> anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

> Thursday, April 14, 2005 7:22 AM

> Nisargadatta

> Re: What is fear?

>

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

> wrote:

> > hello Anders

> >

> > sometimes there is an experiencer, sometimes there is experiencing

> with NO

> > experiencer. The pointer is to That which allows both 'states' to

> appear.

> >

> > As Nisargadatta said, " I am that which knows that I am "

> >

> > however, what the bleep do *i* know!?

> >

> > Love,

> > charlie

> > www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

>

>

> I believe that there will always be an experiencer. In fact, I don't

> think there can be a world without a conscious experiencer. That

> experiencer is the " I am " , the " I am that which knows that I am " .

>

> But what about dreamless sleep? Surely there is a world there even

> when I am in deep sleep. Not necessarily. Pardon me for nagging about

> this issue: but we do not know if we ever have been in dreamless

> sleep. A memory of having been asleep is not automatically the same

> thing as real sleep. Maybe there is no such thing as sleep. Maybe

> awareness is always aware and without awareness there is no world.

>

> al.

>

> >

> >

> >

> > anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

> > Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:46 AM

> > Nisargadatta

> > Re: What is fear?

> >

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes "

<awakenow@e...>

> > wrote:

> > > for what it's worth (probably nothing :-)

> > >

> > > Without thinking, feeling, seeing,

> > >

> > > hearing, remembering...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > do you exist? ... or not exist?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > There is NO separate 'you' or 'me.' Try to find a me - a

> separate self -

> > > there isn't one.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Look deeply.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > You will soon see that all there is, IS ...

> > >

> > > an unshaken unmoveable peace - spaceless -timeless -

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > unchanging, untouched, invincible, always so.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > That, you are.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Welcome.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Only a separate 'me-entity' can suffer.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > When you discover there is no separate 'you' the suffering

ends in a

> > single

> > > strike of the scimitar of your own Original Nature

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Fear depends on an illusory 'person' to be fearful ... thinking

> > about its

> > > 'future'

> > >

> > > when there is no person there is no concern for a future

'what will

> > happen

> > > to me' ... and, there can be the organism's natural response

to a

> > threat to

> > > it's integrity.

> > >

> > > a story ...

> > >

> > > There once was a sage who lived in a lonely temple high in the

> > mountains. He

> > > was visited one day by a wandering monk. As the two were talking

> a wild

> > > animal roared close by, and the visiting monk, supposedly

> Enlightened,

> > > jumped. " I see it is still with you, " said the

sage...referring, of

> > course,

> > > to the instinctive " passion " of fright. Shortly afterwards,

> while he was

> > > unobserved for a moment, the visiting monk inscribed the Chinese

> > character

> > > for the Buddha on the rock the sage was accustomed to sit. When

> the sage

> > > returned to sit down he saw the sacred Name and hesitated to

sit. " I

> > see, "

> > > said the wandering monk, " it is still with you! "

> > >

> > > Love,

> > > charlie

> > > www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

> >

> >

> > Hi charlie,

> >

> > Isn't there an experiencer always? Isn't there at least experience

> > experienced by you? Can you deny that you exist? Can you deny that

> > there is a somebody experiencing events and situations? We maybe

> > cannot say that the experiences imply a separate " me " , yet can you

> > deny experience itself? Can you deny yourself? And can you

truly say

> > that you do not suffer only because you have discovered that

there is

> > no " me " ? Do you not experience fear?

> >

> > al.

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta

> > [Nisargadatta ]On

> > > Behalf Of anders_lindman

> > > Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:24 AM

> > > Nisargadatta

> > > What is fear?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Fear equals the estimated risk of suffering. In that sense

> fear is a

> > > guide helping us avoid suffering. But the problem with fear is

> that it

> > > is itself suffering. Fear prevents flow. The more fear,

the more

> > > frozen stiff we become. When we experience fear, the chance of

> > > suffering is 100%! And the problem is that we virtually always

> > > experience fear. The fear may be hidden as a frozen

contraction in

> > > body and mind, but it is nevertheless always there.

> > >

> > > I have come to believe that fear is what fuels the thinking

> mind. And

> > > desire is another fuel for the thinking mind. Desire is the

> > > accelerator, and fear is the brake. Thinking happens as a

> result of

> > > stepping on the accelerator (desire) with full force,

while at the

> > > same time Nature is stepping on the brake (fear) with full

> force. Can

> > > you get a taste of the conflict involved in such behaviour?

> > >

> > > The absence of fear would bring about an unbalance in the mind

> guided

> > > by desires. The world must act in balance and harmony between

> people.

> > > And only those desires acting in accord with the rest of

the world

> > > will be able to uphold such balance. But personal desires are

> > > incapable of functioning in harmony with the world. Why?

Because

> > > personal desires are limited to the narrow personal view and

> personal

> > > knowledge people are equipped with.

> > >

> > > Desires are not bad because they are wrong. Desires are bad

> because

> > > they are limited. Not only are desires limited, they are

> always the

> > > past trying to repeat itself. There is nothing new in desires,

> and the

> > > world is ever new. As long as those limited and static desires

> guide a

> > > person, she or he will always live in a state of fear. You

cannot

> > > remove fear without upgrading your desires. And you

probably don't

> > > know how to upgrade your desires.

> > >

> > > The only way out of fear is to desire what is now. We want

> change, we

> > > want adventure, and we want fun stuff to happen. Therefore

we look

> > > into the future because the now is mostly giving us fear,

boredom,

> > > loneliness, despair, restlessness, frustration and hatred. But

> this is

> > > so only because your desires are limited and unflexible.

If your

> > > desires are converted into desiring the now, then fear is not

> needed,

> > > and new and interesting stuff will happen by itself because

> the world

> > > is ever new.

> > >

> > > When you desire only what is now, then what do you need to be

> afraid

> > > of? Are you concerned about how you look in the eyes of other

> people?

> > > Then you are having desires about the future. Then you live in

> fear.

> > > But is that human?

> > >

> > > al.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > **

> > >

> > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change

your

> > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My

Groups:

> > >

> > > /mygroups?edit=1

> > >

> > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the

> > Nisargadatta

> > > group and click on Save Changes.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Guest guest

 

Anna Ruiz [nli10u]

Thursday, April 14, 2005 7:38 AM

Nisargadatta

Re: Re: What is fear?

 

 

 

-

Charlie Hayes

Nisargadatta

Thursday, April 14, 2005 10:35 AM

RE: Re: What is fear?

 

 

who am i to argue <smiling inside> ? Your point about deep sleep is one

i

have been quite interested in and puzzled by. There was one time that I

slept deeply and was snoring yet Awareness was aware and there was an

unbounded I am ... all happening at once. Lasted a few minutes, never

appeared since.

 

It's all such fun to discuss though, on days I don't have to chop wood

and

carry water (aka sell cars.)

 

anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

Thursday, April 14, 2005 7:22 AM

Nisargadatta

Re: What is fear?

 

 

 

Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

wrote:

> hello Anders

>

> sometimes there is an experiencer, sometimes there is experiencing

with NO

> experiencer. The pointer is to That which allows both 'states' to

appear.

>

> As Nisargadatta said, " I am that which knows that I am "

>

> however, what the bleep do *i* know!?

>

> Love,

> charlie

> www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

I believe that there will always be an experiencer. In fact, I don't

think there can be a world without a conscious experiencer. That

experiencer is the " I am " , the " I am that which knows that I am " .

 

But what about dreamless sleep? Surely there is a world there even

when I am in deep sleep. Not necessarily. Pardon me for nagging about

this issue: but we do not know if we ever have been in dreamless

sleep. A memory of having been asleep is not automatically the same

thing as real sleep. Maybe there is no such thing as sleep. Maybe

awareness is always aware and without awareness there is no world.

 

al.

 

 

 

Hi Charlie,

 

Cadillac car salesmen, realtors who lease cadillacs, what the **** is

the world coming to?

 

Love,

Anna

 

p.s. Falling asleep, waking up, falling asleep while waking up,

sleeping while awake, etc. happens,

and here we are.....:))))

 

and the snoring......Now, that doesn't let any-one sleep:)))

 

 

hooooo ya

LOL

 

Love,

charlie

www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

>

>

> anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

> Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:46 AM

> Nisargadatta

> Re: What is fear?

>

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes "

<awakenow@e...>

> wrote:

> > for what it's worth (probably nothing :-)

> >

> > Without thinking, feeling, seeing,

> >

> > hearing, remembering...

> >

> >

> >

> > do you exist? ... or not exist?

> >

> >

> >

> > There is NO separate 'you' or 'me.' Try to find a me - a

separate self -

> > there isn't one.

> >

> >

> >

> > Look deeply.

> >

> >

> >

> > You will soon see that all there is, IS ...

> >

> > an unshaken unmoveable peace - spaceless -timeless -

> >

> >

> >

> > unchanging, untouched, invincible, always so.

> >

> >

> >

> > That, you are.

> >

> >

> >

> > Welcome.

> >

> >

> >

> > Only a separate 'me-entity' can suffer.

> >

> >

> >

> > When you discover there is no separate 'you' the suffering ends

in a

> single

> > strike of the scimitar of your own Original Nature

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Fear depends on an illusory 'person' to be fearful ... thinking

> about its

> > 'future'

> >

> > when there is no person there is no concern for a future 'what

will

> happen

> > to me' ... and, there can be the organism's natural response to

a

> threat to

> > it's integrity.

> >

> > a story ...

> >

> > There once was a sage who lived in a lonely temple high in the

> mountains. He

> > was visited one day by a wandering monk. As the two were talking

a wild

> > animal roared close by, and the visiting monk, supposedly

Enlightened,

> > jumped. " I see it is still with you, " said the sage...referring,

of

> course,

> > to the instinctive " passion " of fright. Shortly afterwards,

while he was

> > unobserved for a moment, the visiting monk inscribed the Chinese

> character

> > for the Buddha on the rock the sage was accustomed to sit. When

the sage

> > returned to sit down he saw the sacred Name and hesitated to

sit. " I

> see, "

> > said the wandering monk, " it is still with you! "

> >

> > Love,

> > charlie

> > www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

>

>

> Hi charlie,

>

> Isn't there an experiencer always? Isn't there at least experience

> experienced by you? Can you deny that you exist? Can you deny that

> there is a somebody experiencing events and situations? We maybe

> cannot say that the experiences imply a separate " me " , yet can you

> deny experience itself? Can you deny yourself? And can you truly

say

> that you do not suffer only because you have discovered that there

is

> no " me " ? Do you not experience fear?

>

> al.

>

> >

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta

> [Nisargadatta ]On

> > Behalf Of anders_lindman

> > Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:24 AM

> > Nisargadatta

> > What is fear?

> >

> >

> >

> > Fear equals the estimated risk of suffering. In that sense

fear is a

> > guide helping us avoid suffering. But the problem with fear is

that it

> > is itself suffering. Fear prevents flow. The more fear, the

more

> > frozen stiff we become. When we experience fear, the chance of

> > suffering is 100%! And the problem is that we virtually always

> > experience fear. The fear may be hidden as a frozen

contraction in

> > body and mind, but it is nevertheless always there.

> >

> > I have come to believe that fear is what fuels the thinking

mind. And

> > desire is another fuel for the thinking mind. Desire is the

> > accelerator, and fear is the brake. Thinking happens as a

result of

> > stepping on the accelerator (desire) with full force, while at

the

> > same time Nature is stepping on the brake (fear) with full

force. Can

> > you get a taste of the conflict involved in such behaviour?

> >

> > The absence of fear would bring about an unbalance in the mind

guided

> > by desires. The world must act in balance and harmony between

people.

> > And only those desires acting in accord with the rest of the

world

> > will be able to uphold such balance. But personal desires are

> > incapable of functioning in harmony with the world. Why?

Because

> > personal desires are limited to the narrow personal view and

personal

> > knowledge people are equipped with.

> >

> > Desires are not bad because they are wrong. Desires are bad

because

> > they are limited. Not only are desires limited, they are

always the

> > past trying to repeat itself. There is nothing new in desires,

and the

> > world is ever new. As long as those limited and static desires

guide a

> > person, she or he will always live in a state of fear. You

cannot

> > remove fear without upgrading your desires. And you probably

don't

> > know how to upgrade your desires.

> >

> > The only way out of fear is to desire what is now. We want

change, we

> > want adventure, and we want fun stuff to happen. Therefore we

look

> > into the future because the now is mostly giving us fear,

boredom,

> > loneliness, despair, restlessness, frustration and hatred. But

this is

> > so only because your desires are limited and unflexible. If

your

> > desires are converted into desiring the now, then fear is not

needed,

> > and new and interesting stuff will happen by itself because

the world

> > is ever new.

> >

> > When you desire only what is now, then what do you need to be

afraid

> > of? Are you concerned about how you look in the eyes of other

people?

> > Then you are having desires about the future. Then you live in

fear.

> > But is that human?

> >

> > al.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > **

> >

> > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change

your

> > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My

Groups:

> >

> > /mygroups?edit=1

> >

> > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the

> Nisargadatta

> > group and click on Save Changes.

> >

> >

> >

> >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Anders,

 

selling cars is effortless when I remember to see the 'other' as my Self ...

sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. But after imbibing Sri Nisargadatta

and sitting with a couple of real good Friends (like John Wheeler) I find

that being with people is a great joy and there is a spaciousness I

treasure. Not all customers are very nice ... some are so afraid (rightly

so) to walk onto a car lot that they put up some big defenses in the form of

offensive and rude behavior toward the sales person. Mind you, there are

those who do not ... fortunately most of our Cadillac customers are very

good people living there lives and enjoying their cars, as I do (I drive a

CTS and I love the thing.)

 

I tell people that having come out of retirement to sell Cadillacs is a

product of the fact that I love people and I love cars. Most get it and we

have a great time playing the game with integrity and love!

 

Love,

charlie

www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

wrote:

> who am i to argue <smiling inside> ? Your point about deep sleep is

one i

> have been quite interested in and puzzled by. There was one time that I

> slept deeply and was snoring yet Awareness was aware and there was an

> unbounded I am ... all happening at once. Lasted a few minutes, never

> appeared since.

>

> It's all such fun to discuss though, on days I don't have to chop

wood and

> carry water (aka sell cars.)

 

 

I imagine selling cars brings you in contact with people having

desires. They think: " I want that car but can I afford it, or should I

buy a cheaper car, or maybe I should buy a Volvo? " :)))) Then you tell

the customer: " I can see that you are filled with doubt and

uncertainty, but you didn't come here to make a choice, you have

already made it " :)

 

al.

 

>

>

> anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

> Thursday, April 14, 2005 7:22 AM

> Nisargadatta

> Re: What is fear?

>

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

> wrote:

> > hello Anders

> >

> > sometimes there is an experiencer, sometimes there is experiencing

> with NO

> > experiencer. The pointer is to That which allows both 'states' to

> appear.

> >

> > As Nisargadatta said, " I am that which knows that I am "

> >

> > however, what the bleep do *i* know!?

> >

> > Love,

> > charlie

> > www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

>

>

> I believe that there will always be an experiencer. In fact, I don't

> think there can be a world without a conscious experiencer. That

> experiencer is the " I am " , the " I am that which knows that I am " .

>

> But what about dreamless sleep? Surely there is a world there even

> when I am in deep sleep. Not necessarily. Pardon me for nagging about

> this issue: but we do not know if we ever have been in dreamless

> sleep. A memory of having been asleep is not automatically the same

> thing as real sleep. Maybe there is no such thing as sleep. Maybe

> awareness is always aware and without awareness there is no world.

>

> al.

>

> >

> >

> >

> > anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

> > Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:46 AM

> > Nisargadatta

> > Re: What is fear?

> >

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes "

<awakenow@e...>

> > wrote:

> > > for what it's worth (probably nothing :-)

> > >

> > > Without thinking, feeling, seeing,

> > >

> > > hearing, remembering...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > do you exist? ... or not exist?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > There is NO separate 'you' or 'me.' Try to find a me - a

> separate self -

> > > there isn't one.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Look deeply.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > You will soon see that all there is, IS ...

> > >

> > > an unshaken unmoveable peace - spaceless -timeless -

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > unchanging, untouched, invincible, always so.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > That, you are.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Welcome.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Only a separate 'me-entity' can suffer.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > When you discover there is no separate 'you' the suffering

ends in a

> > single

> > > strike of the scimitar of your own Original Nature

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Fear depends on an illusory 'person' to be fearful ... thinking

> > about its

> > > 'future'

> > >

> > > when there is no person there is no concern for a future

'what will

> > happen

> > > to me' ... and, there can be the organism's natural response

to a

> > threat to

> > > it's integrity.

> > >

> > > a story ...

> > >

> > > There once was a sage who lived in a lonely temple high in the

> > mountains. He

> > > was visited one day by a wandering monk. As the two were talking

> a wild

> > > animal roared close by, and the visiting monk, supposedly

> Enlightened,

> > > jumped. " I see it is still with you, " said the

sage...referring, of

> > course,

> > > to the instinctive " passion " of fright. Shortly afterwards,

> while he was

> > > unobserved for a moment, the visiting monk inscribed the Chinese

> > character

> > > for the Buddha on the rock the sage was accustomed to sit. When

> the sage

> > > returned to sit down he saw the sacred Name and hesitated to

sit. " I

> > see, "

> > > said the wandering monk, " it is still with you! "

> > >

> > > Love,

> > > charlie

> > > www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

> >

> >

> > Hi charlie,

> >

> > Isn't there an experiencer always? Isn't there at least experience

> > experienced by you? Can you deny that you exist? Can you deny that

> > there is a somebody experiencing events and situations? We maybe

> > cannot say that the experiences imply a separate " me " , yet can you

> > deny experience itself? Can you deny yourself? And can you

truly say

> > that you do not suffer only because you have discovered that

there is

> > no " me " ? Do you not experience fear?

> >

> > al.

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta

> > [Nisargadatta ]On

> > > Behalf Of anders_lindman

> > > Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:24 AM

> > > Nisargadatta

> > > What is fear?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Fear equals the estimated risk of suffering. In that sense

> fear is a

> > > guide helping us avoid suffering. But the problem with fear is

> that it

> > > is itself suffering. Fear prevents flow. The more fear,

the more

> > > frozen stiff we become. When we experience fear, the chance of

> > > suffering is 100%! And the problem is that we virtually always

> > > experience fear. The fear may be hidden as a frozen

contraction in

> > > body and mind, but it is nevertheless always there.

> > >

> > > I have come to believe that fear is what fuels the thinking

> mind. And

> > > desire is another fuel for the thinking mind. Desire is the

> > > accelerator, and fear is the brake. Thinking happens as a

> result of

> > > stepping on the accelerator (desire) with full force,

while at the

> > > same time Nature is stepping on the brake (fear) with full

> force. Can

> > > you get a taste of the conflict involved in such behaviour?

> > >

> > > The absence of fear would bring about an unbalance in the mind

> guided

> > > by desires. The world must act in balance and harmony between

> people.

> > > And only those desires acting in accord with the rest of

the world

> > > will be able to uphold such balance. But personal desires are

> > > incapable of functioning in harmony with the world. Why?

Because

> > > personal desires are limited to the narrow personal view and

> personal

> > > knowledge people are equipped with.

> > >

> > > Desires are not bad because they are wrong. Desires are bad

> because

> > > they are limited. Not only are desires limited, they are

> always the

> > > past trying to repeat itself. There is nothing new in desires,

> and the

> > > world is ever new. As long as those limited and static desires

> guide a

> > > person, she or he will always live in a state of fear. You

cannot

> > > remove fear without upgrading your desires. And you

probably don't

> > > know how to upgrade your desires.

> > >

> > > The only way out of fear is to desire what is now. We want

> change, we

> > > want adventure, and we want fun stuff to happen. Therefore

we look

> > > into the future because the now is mostly giving us fear,

boredom,

> > > loneliness, despair, restlessness, frustration and hatred. But

> this is

> > > so only because your desires are limited and unflexible.

If your

> > > desires are converted into desiring the now, then fear is not

> needed,

> > > and new and interesting stuff will happen by itself because

> the world

> > > is ever new.

> > >

> > > When you desire only what is now, then what do you need to be

> afraid

> > > of? Are you concerned about how you look in the eyes of other

> people?

> > > Then you are having desires about the future. Then you live in

> fear.

> > > But is that human?

> > >

> > > al.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > **

> > >

> > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change

your

> > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My

Groups:

> > >

> > > /mygroups?edit=1

> > >

> > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the

> > Nisargadatta

> > > group and click on Save Changes.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Siddharmeshwar Maharaj - Excerpts from Amrut Laya

 

Detachment is absence of even a single desire. This leads to fearlessness.

Otherwise, there is no freedom from fear for you. One should not depend on

others, as in the case where one thinks : " If I do not get anything to eat I

will die. " Desire for the bliss of Self, is desire for the bliss within.

 

Anders,

 

selling cars is effortless when I remember to see the 'other' as my Self

....

sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. But after imbibing Sri Nisargadatta

and sitting with a couple of real good Friends (like John Wheeler) I find

that being with people is a great joy and there is a spaciousness I

treasure. Not all customers are very nice ... some are so afraid (rightly

so) to walk onto a car lot that they put up some big defenses in the form

of

offensive and rude behavior toward the sales person. Mind you, there are

those who do not ... fortunately most of our Cadillac customers are very

good people living there lives and enjoying their cars, as I do (I drive a

CTS and I love the thing.)

 

I tell people that having come out of retirement to sell Cadillacs is a

product of the fact that I love people and I love cars. Most get it and we

have a great time playing the game with integrity and love!

 

Love,

charlie

www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

wrote:

> who am i to argue <smiling inside> ? Your point about deep sleep is

one i

> have been quite interested in and puzzled by. There was one time that

I

> slept deeply and was snoring yet Awareness was aware and there was an

> unbounded I am ... all happening at once. Lasted a few minutes, never

> appeared since.

>

> It's all such fun to discuss though, on days I don't have to chop

wood and

> carry water (aka sell cars.)

 

 

I imagine selling cars brings you in contact with people having

desires. They think: " I want that car but can I afford it, or should I

buy a cheaper car, or maybe I should buy a Volvo? " :)))) Then you tell

the customer: " I can see that you are filled with doubt and

uncertainty, but you didn't come here to make a choice, you have

already made it " :)

 

al.

 

>

>

> anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

> Thursday, April 14, 2005 7:22 AM

> Nisargadatta

> Re: What is fear?

>

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

> wrote:

> > hello Anders

> >

> > sometimes there is an experiencer, sometimes there is experiencing

> with NO

> > experiencer. The pointer is to That which allows both 'states' to

> appear.

> >

> > As Nisargadatta said, " I am that which knows that I am "

> >

> > however, what the bleep do *i* know!?

> >

> > Love,

> > charlie

> > www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

>

>

> I believe that there will always be an experiencer. In fact, I don't

> think there can be a world without a conscious experiencer. That

> experiencer is the " I am " , the " I am that which knows that I am " .

>

> But what about dreamless sleep? Surely there is a world there even

> when I am in deep sleep. Not necessarily. Pardon me for nagging

about

> this issue: but we do not know if we ever have been in dreamless

> sleep. A memory of having been asleep is not automatically the same

> thing as real sleep. Maybe there is no such thing as sleep. Maybe

> awareness is always aware and without awareness there is no world.

>

> al.

>

> >

> >

> >

> > anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

> > Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:46 AM

> > Nisargadatta

> > Re: What is fear?

> >

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes "

<awakenow@e...>

> > wrote:

> > > for what it's worth (probably nothing :-)

> > >

> > > Without thinking, feeling, seeing,

> > >

> > > hearing, remembering...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > do you exist? ... or not exist?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > There is NO separate 'you' or 'me.' Try to find a me - a

> separate self -

> > > there isn't one.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Look deeply.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > You will soon see that all there is, IS ...

> > >

> > > an unshaken unmoveable peace - spaceless -timeless -

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > unchanging, untouched, invincible, always so.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > That, you are.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Welcome.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Only a separate 'me-entity' can suffer.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > When you discover there is no separate 'you' the suffering

ends in a

> > single

> > > strike of the scimitar of your own Original Nature

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Fear depends on an illusory 'person' to be fearful ...

thinking

> > about its

> > > 'future'

> > >

> > > when there is no person there is no concern for a future

'what will

> > happen

> > > to me' ... and, there can be the organism's natural response

to a

> > threat to

> > > it's integrity.

> > >

> > > a story ...

> > >

> > > There once was a sage who lived in a lonely temple high in the

> > mountains. He

> > > was visited one day by a wandering monk. As the two were

talking

> a wild

> > > animal roared close by, and the visiting monk, supposedly

> Enlightened,

> > > jumped. " I see it is still with you, " said the

sage...referring, of

> > course,

> > > to the instinctive " passion " of fright. Shortly afterwards,

> while he was

> > > unobserved for a moment, the visiting monk inscribed the

Chinese

> > character

> > > for the Buddha on the rock the sage was accustomed to sit.

When

> the sage

> > > returned to sit down he saw the sacred Name and hesitated to

sit. " I

> > see, "

> > > said the wandering monk, " it is still with you! "

> > >

> > > Love,

> > > charlie

> > > www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

> >

> >

> > Hi charlie,

> >

> > Isn't there an experiencer always? Isn't there at least

experience

> > experienced by you? Can you deny that you exist? Can you deny

that

> > there is a somebody experiencing events and situations? We maybe

> > cannot say that the experiences imply a separate " me " , yet can

you

> > deny experience itself? Can you deny yourself? And can you

truly say

> > that you do not suffer only because you have discovered that

there is

> > no " me " ? Do you not experience fear?

> >

> > al.

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta

> > [Nisargadatta ]On

> > > Behalf Of anders_lindman

> > > Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:24 AM

> > > Nisargadatta

> > > What is fear?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Fear equals the estimated risk of suffering. In that sense

> fear is a

> > > guide helping us avoid suffering. But the problem with fear

is

> that it

> > > is itself suffering. Fear prevents flow. The more fear,

the more

> > > frozen stiff we become. When we experience fear, the chance

of

> > > suffering is 100%! And the problem is that we virtually

always

> > > experience fear. The fear may be hidden as a frozen

contraction in

> > > body and mind, but it is nevertheless always there.

> > >

> > > I have come to believe that fear is what fuels the thinking

> mind. And

> > > desire is another fuel for the thinking mind. Desire is the

> > > accelerator, and fear is the brake. Thinking happens as a

> result of

> > > stepping on the accelerator (desire) with full force,

while at the

> > > same time Nature is stepping on the brake (fear) with full

> force. Can

> > > you get a taste of the conflict involved in such behaviour?

> > >

> > > The absence of fear would bring about an unbalance in the

mind

> guided

> > > by desires. The world must act in balance and harmony

between

> people.

> > > And only those desires acting in accord with the rest of

the world

> > > will be able to uphold such balance. But personal desires

are

> > > incapable of functioning in harmony with the world. Why?

Because

> > > personal desires are limited to the narrow personal view and

> personal

> > > knowledge people are equipped with.

> > >

> > > Desires are not bad because they are wrong. Desires are bad

> because

> > > they are limited. Not only are desires limited, they are

> always the

> > > past trying to repeat itself. There is nothing new in

desires,

> and the

> > > world is ever new. As long as those limited and static

desires

> guide a

> > > person, she or he will always live in a state of fear. You

cannot

> > > remove fear without upgrading your desires. And you

probably don't

> > > know how to upgrade your desires.

> > >

> > > The only way out of fear is to desire what is now. We want

> change, we

> > > want adventure, and we want fun stuff to happen. Therefore

we look

> > > into the future because the now is mostly giving us fear,

boredom,

> > > loneliness, despair, restlessness, frustration and hatred.

But

> this is

> > > so only because your desires are limited and unflexible.

If your

> > > desires are converted into desiring the now, then fear is

not

> needed,

> > > and new and interesting stuff will happen by itself because

> the world

> > > is ever new.

> > >

> > > When you desire only what is now, then what do you need to

be

> afraid

> > > of? Are you concerned about how you look in the eyes of

other

> people?

> > > Then you are having desires about the future. Then you live

in

> fear.

> > > But is that human?

> > >

> > > al.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > **

> > >

> > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change

your

> > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My

Groups:

> > >

> > > /mygroups?edit=1

> > >

> > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for the

> > Nisargadatta

> > > group and click on Save Changes.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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Guest guest

Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

wrote:

> Anders,

>

> selling cars is effortless when I remember to see the 'other' as my

Self ...

> sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. But after imbibing Sri

Nisargadatta

> and sitting with a couple of real good Friends (like John Wheeler) I

find

> that being with people is a great joy and there is a spaciousness I

> treasure. Not all customers are very nice ... some are so afraid

(rightly

> so) to walk onto a car lot that they put up some big defenses in the

form of

> offensive and rude behavior toward the sales person. Mind you, there are

> those who do not ... fortunately most of our Cadillac customers are very

> good people living there lives and enjoying their cars, as I do (I

drive a

> CTS and I love the thing.)

>

> I tell people that having come out of retirement to sell Cadillacs is a

> product of the fact that I love people and I love cars. Most get it

and we

> have a great time playing the game with integrity and love!

>

> Love,

> charlie

> www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

Yes, offensive and rude behaviour is based on fear in that person.

That is my experience too. I can even recognize that behaviour in

myself in certain situations. Often in the form of being shy, but that

is more or less the same thing. Or pretending to be in a certain mood,

when all the while I know deep inside that I am trying to put up some

phony act.

 

al.

 

Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

> wrote:

> > who am i to argue <smiling inside> ? Your point about deep sleep is

> one i

> > have been quite interested in and puzzled by. There was one time

that I

> > slept deeply and was snoring yet Awareness was aware and there

was an

> > unbounded I am ... all happening at once. Lasted a few minutes,

never

> > appeared since.

> >

> > It's all such fun to discuss though, on days I don't have to chop

> wood and

> > carry water (aka sell cars.)

>

>

> I imagine selling cars brings you in contact with people having

> desires. They think: " I want that car but can I afford it, or should I

> buy a cheaper car, or maybe I should buy a Volvo? " :)))) Then you tell

> the customer: " I can see that you are filled with doubt and

> uncertainty, but you didn't come here to make a choice, you have

> already made it " :)

>

> al.

>

> >

> >

> > anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

> > Thursday, April 14, 2005 7:22 AM

> > Nisargadatta

> > Re: What is fear?

> >

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes "

<awakenow@e...>

> > wrote:

> > > hello Anders

> > >

> > > sometimes there is an experiencer, sometimes there is

experiencing

> > with NO

> > > experiencer. The pointer is to That which allows both

'states' to

> > appear.

> > >

> > > As Nisargadatta said, " I am that which knows that I am "

> > >

> > > however, what the bleep do *i* know!?

> > >

> > > Love,

> > > charlie

> > > www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

> >

> >

> > I believe that there will always be an experiencer. In fact, I

don't

> > think there can be a world without a conscious experiencer. That

> > experiencer is the " I am " , the " I am that which knows that I am " .

> >

> > But what about dreamless sleep? Surely there is a world there even

> > when I am in deep sleep. Not necessarily. Pardon me for

nagging about

> > this issue: but we do not know if we ever have been in dreamless

> > sleep. A memory of having been asleep is not automatically the

same

> > thing as real sleep. Maybe there is no such thing as sleep. Maybe

> > awareness is always aware and without awareness there is no world.

> >

> > al.

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

> > > Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:46 AM

> > > Nisargadatta

> > > Re: What is fear?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes "

> <awakenow@e...>

> > > wrote:

> > > > for what it's worth (probably nothing :-)

> > > >

> > > > Without thinking, feeling, seeing,

> > > >

> > > > hearing, remembering...

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > do you exist? ... or not exist?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > There is NO separate 'you' or 'me.' Try to find a me - a

> > separate self -

> > > > there isn't one.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Look deeply.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > You will soon see that all there is, IS ...

> > > >

> > > > an unshaken unmoveable peace - spaceless -timeless -

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > unchanging, untouched, invincible, always so.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > That, you are.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Welcome.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Only a separate 'me-entity' can suffer.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > When you discover there is no separate 'you' the suffering

> ends in a

> > > single

> > > > strike of the scimitar of your own Original Nature

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Fear depends on an illusory 'person' to be fearful ...

thinking

> > > about its

> > > > 'future'

> > > >

> > > > when there is no person there is no concern for a future

> 'what will

> > > happen

> > > > to me' ... and, there can be the organism's natural response

> to a

> > > threat to

> > > > it's integrity.

> > > >

> > > > a story ...

> > > >

> > > > There once was a sage who lived in a lonely temple high

in the

> > > mountains. He

> > > > was visited one day by a wandering monk. As the two were

talking

> > a wild

> > > > animal roared close by, and the visiting monk, supposedly

> > Enlightened,

> > > > jumped. " I see it is still with you, " said the

> sage...referring, of

> > > course,

> > > > to the instinctive " passion " of fright. Shortly afterwards,

> > while he was

> > > > unobserved for a moment, the visiting monk inscribed the

Chinese

> > > character

> > > > for the Buddha on the rock the sage was accustomed to

sit. When

> > the sage

> > > > returned to sit down he saw the sacred Name and hesitated to

> sit. " I

> > > see, "

> > > > said the wandering monk, " it is still with you! "

> > > >

> > > > Love,

> > > > charlie

> > > > www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi charlie,

> > >

> > > Isn't there an experiencer always? Isn't there at least

experience

> > > experienced by you? Can you deny that you exist? Can you

deny that

> > > there is a somebody experiencing events and situations? We

maybe

> > > cannot say that the experiences imply a separate " me " , yet

can you

> > > deny experience itself? Can you deny yourself? And can you

> truly say

> > > that you do not suffer only because you have discovered that

> there is

> > > no " me " ? Do you not experience fear?

> > >

> > > al.

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Nisargadatta

> > > [Nisargadatta ]On

> > > > Behalf Of anders_lindman

> > > > Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:24 AM

> > > > Nisargadatta

> > > > What is fear?

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Fear equals the estimated risk of suffering. In that sense

> > fear is a

> > > > guide helping us avoid suffering. But the problem with

fear is

> > that it

> > > > is itself suffering. Fear prevents flow. The more fear,

> the more

> > > > frozen stiff we become. When we experience fear, the

chance of

> > > > suffering is 100%! And the problem is that we

virtually always

> > > > experience fear. The fear may be hidden as a frozen

> contraction in

> > > > body and mind, but it is nevertheless always there.

> > > >

> > > > I have come to believe that fear is what fuels the

thinking

> > mind. And

> > > > desire is another fuel for the thinking mind. Desire

is the

> > > > accelerator, and fear is the brake. Thinking happens as a

> > result of

> > > > stepping on the accelerator (desire) with full force,

> while at the

> > > > same time Nature is stepping on the brake (fear) with full

> > force. Can

> > > > you get a taste of the conflict involved in such

behaviour?

> > > >

> > > > The absence of fear would bring about an unbalance in

the mind

> > guided

> > > > by desires. The world must act in balance and harmony

between

> > people.

> > > > And only those desires acting in accord with the rest of

> the world

> > > > will be able to uphold such balance. But personal

desires are

> > > > incapable of functioning in harmony with the world. Why?

> Because

> > > > personal desires are limited to the narrow personal

view and

> > personal

> > > > knowledge people are equipped with.

> > > >

> > > > Desires are not bad because they are wrong. Desires

are bad

> > because

> > > > they are limited. Not only are desires limited, they are

> > always the

> > > > past trying to repeat itself. There is nothing new in

desires,

> > and the

> > > > world is ever new. As long as those limited and static

desires

> > guide a

> > > > person, she or he will always live in a state of fear. You

> cannot

> > > > remove fear without upgrading your desires. And you

> probably don't

> > > > know how to upgrade your desires.

> > > >

> > > > The only way out of fear is to desire what is now. We want

> > change, we

> > > > want adventure, and we want fun stuff to happen. Therefore

> we look

> > > > into the future because the now is mostly giving us fear,

> boredom,

> > > > loneliness, despair, restlessness, frustration and

hatred. But

> > this is

> > > > so only because your desires are limited and unflexible.

> If your

> > > > desires are converted into desiring the now, then fear

is not

> > needed,

> > > > and new and interesting stuff will happen by itself

because

> > the world

> > > > is ever new.

> > > >

> > > > When you desire only what is now, then what do you

need to be

> > afraid

> > > > of? Are you concerned about how you look in the eyes

of other

> > people?

> > > > Then you are having desires about the future. Then you

live in

> > fear.

> > > > But is that human?

> > > >

> > > > al.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > **

> > > >

> > > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change

> your

> > > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My

> Groups:

> > > >

> > > > /mygroups?edit=1

> > > >

> > > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email "

for the

> > > Nisargadatta

> > > > group and click on Save Changes.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest guest

Anders,

 

selling cars is effortless when I remember to see the 'other' as my Self

....

sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. But after imbibing Sri

Nisargadatta

and sitting with a couple of real good Friends (like John Wheeler) I

find

that being with people is a great joy and there is a spaciousness I

treasure. Not all customers are very nice ... some are so afraid

(rightly

so) to walk onto a car lot that they put up some big defenses in the

form of

offensive and rude behavior toward the sales person. Mind you, there are

those who do not ... fortunately most of our Cadillac customers are very

good people living there lives and enjoying their cars, as I do (I drive

a

CTS and I love the thing.)

 

I tell people that having come out of retirement to sell Cadillacs is a

product of the fact that I love people and I love cars. Most get it and

we

have a great time playing the game with integrity and love!

 

Love,

charlie

www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

 

Its sort of like, i never sell a house to a who who doesn't want to

buy....:)))

 

love,

Anna

 

Have a bountiful day, as if....

 

 

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES

 

Love,

charlie

www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

 

 

 

 

Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes " <awakenow@e...>

wrote:

> who am i to argue <smiling inside> ? Your point about deep sleep is

one i

> have been quite interested in and puzzled by. There was one time

that I

> slept deeply and was snoring yet Awareness was aware and there was

an

> unbounded I am ... all happening at once. Lasted a few minutes,

never

> appeared since.

>

> It's all such fun to discuss though, on days I don't have to chop

wood and

> carry water (aka sell cars.)

 

 

I imagine selling cars brings you in contact with people having

desires. They think: " I want that car but can I afford it, or should I

buy a cheaper car, or maybe I should buy a Volvo? " :)))) Then you tell

the customer: " I can see that you are filled with doubt and

uncertainty, but you didn't come here to make a choice, you have

already made it " :)

 

al.

 

>

>

> anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

> Thursday, April 14, 2005 7:22 AM

> Nisargadatta

> Re: What is fear?

>

>

>

> Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes "

<awakenow@e...>

> wrote:

> > hello Anders

> >

> > sometimes there is an experiencer, sometimes there is

experiencing

> with NO

> > experiencer. The pointer is to That which allows both 'states'

to

> appear.

> >

> > As Nisargadatta said, " I am that which knows that I am "

> >

> > however, what the bleep do *i* know!?

> >

> > Love,

> > charlie

> > www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

>

>

> I believe that there will always be an experiencer. In fact, I

don't

> think there can be a world without a conscious experiencer. That

> experiencer is the " I am " , the " I am that which knows that I am " .

>

> But what about dreamless sleep? Surely there is a world there even

> when I am in deep sleep. Not necessarily. Pardon me for nagging

about

> this issue: but we do not know if we ever have been in dreamless

> sleep. A memory of having been asleep is not automatically the

same

> thing as real sleep. Maybe there is no such thing as sleep. Maybe

> awareness is always aware and without awareness there is no world.

>

> al.

>

> >

> >

> >

> > anders_lindman [anders_lindman]

> > Thursday, April 14, 2005 6:46 AM

> > Nisargadatta

> > Re: What is fear?

> >

> >

> >

> > Nisargadatta , " Charlie Hayes "

<awakenow@e...>

> > wrote:

> > > for what it's worth (probably nothing :-)

> > >

> > > Without thinking, feeling, seeing,

> > >

> > > hearing, remembering...

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > do you exist? ... or not exist?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > There is NO separate 'you' or 'me.' Try to find a me - a

> separate self -

> > > there isn't one.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Look deeply.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > You will soon see that all there is, IS ...

> > >

> > > an unshaken unmoveable peace - spaceless -timeless -

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > unchanging, untouched, invincible, always so.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > That, you are.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Welcome.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Only a separate 'me-entity' can suffer.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > When you discover there is no separate 'you' the suffering

ends in a

> > single

> > > strike of the scimitar of your own Original Nature

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Fear depends on an illusory 'person' to be fearful ...

thinking

> > about its

> > > 'future'

> > >

> > > when there is no person there is no concern for a future

'what will

> > happen

> > > to me' ... and, there can be the organism's natural response

to a

> > threat to

> > > it's integrity.

> > >

> > > a story ...

> > >

> > > There once was a sage who lived in a lonely temple high in

the

> > mountains. He

> > > was visited one day by a wandering monk. As the two were

talking

> a wild

> > > animal roared close by, and the visiting monk, supposedly

> Enlightened,

> > > jumped. " I see it is still with you, " said the

sage...referring, of

> > course,

> > > to the instinctive " passion " of fright. Shortly afterwards,

> while he was

> > > unobserved for a moment, the visiting monk inscribed the

Chinese

> > character

> > > for the Buddha on the rock the sage was accustomed to sit.

When

> the sage

> > > returned to sit down he saw the sacred Name and hesitated to

sit. " I

> > see, "

> > > said the wandering monk, " it is still with you! "

> > >

> > > Love,

> > > charlie

> > > www.awakeningtotheeternal.net

> >

> >

> > Hi charlie,

> >

> > Isn't there an experiencer always? Isn't there at least

experience

> > experienced by you? Can you deny that you exist? Can you deny

that

> > there is a somebody experiencing events and situations? We

maybe

> > cannot say that the experiences imply a separate " me " , yet can

you

> > deny experience itself? Can you deny yourself? And can you

truly say

> > that you do not suffer only because you have discovered that

there is

> > no " me " ? Do you not experience fear?

> >

> > al.

> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Nisargadatta

> > [Nisargadatta ]On

> > > Behalf Of anders_lindman

> > > Thursday, April 14, 2005 5:24 AM

> > > Nisargadatta

> > > What is fear?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Fear equals the estimated risk of suffering. In that sense

> fear is a

> > > guide helping us avoid suffering. But the problem with

fear is

> that it

> > > is itself suffering. Fear prevents flow. The more fear,

the more

> > > frozen stiff we become. When we experience fear, the

chance of

> > > suffering is 100%! And the problem is that we virtually

always

> > > experience fear. The fear may be hidden as a frozen

contraction in

> > > body and mind, but it is nevertheless always there.

> > >

> > > I have come to believe that fear is what fuels the

thinking

> mind. And

> > > desire is another fuel for the thinking mind. Desire is

the

> > > accelerator, and fear is the brake. Thinking happens as a

> result of

> > > stepping on the accelerator (desire) with full force,

while at the

> > > same time Nature is stepping on the brake (fear) with full

> force. Can

> > > you get a taste of the conflict involved in such

behaviour?

> > >

> > > The absence of fear would bring about an unbalance in the

mind

> guided

> > > by desires. The world must act in balance and harmony

between

> people.

> > > And only those desires acting in accord with the rest of

the world

> > > will be able to uphold such balance. But personal desires

are

> > > incapable of functioning in harmony with the world. Why?

Because

> > > personal desires are limited to the narrow personal view

and

> personal

> > > knowledge people are equipped with.

> > >

> > > Desires are not bad because they are wrong. Desires are

bad

> because

> > > they are limited. Not only are desires limited, they are

> always the

> > > past trying to repeat itself. There is nothing new in

desires,

> and the

> > > world is ever new. As long as those limited and static

desires

> guide a

> > > person, she or he will always live in a state of fear. You

cannot

> > > remove fear without upgrading your desires. And you

probably don't

> > > know how to upgrade your desires.

> > >

> > > The only way out of fear is to desire what is now. We want

> change, we

> > > want adventure, and we want fun stuff to happen. Therefore

we look

> > > into the future because the now is mostly giving us fear,

boredom,

> > > loneliness, despair, restlessness, frustration and hatred.

But

> this is

> > > so only because your desires are limited and unflexible.

If your

> > > desires are converted into desiring the now, then fear is

not

> needed,

> > > and new and interesting stuff will happen by itself

because

> the world

> > > is ever new.

> > >

> > > When you desire only what is now, then what do you need to

be

> afraid

> > > of? Are you concerned about how you look in the eyes of

other

> people?

> > > Then you are having desires about the future. Then you

live in

> fear.

> > > But is that human?

> > >

> > > al.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > **

> > >

> > > If you do not wish to receive individual emails, to change

your

> > > subscription, sign in with your ID and go to Edit My

Groups:

> > >

> > > /mygroups?edit=1

> > >

> > > Under the Message Delivery option, choose " No Email " for

the

> > Nisargadatta

> > > group and click on Save Changes.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

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