Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Thanks Pete, And let me add (and I know you don't agree) that consciousness too is just a social function (and nothing more) needed for communication. The world we share and commune as social selfs is the world of consciousness. Werner Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > There is no self, but the social self. > The " I " is just a social instrument, your > very mind is a social tool. The human > mind and self are not cosmic, they > are not even natural. Feral children > have neither. They have only the > animal subjectivity of a dog, or a wolf. > > Even if you go live as a hermit in a cave, > you can't leave society behind. As long > as you have a mind, society will be there. > > So be clear about this, when " you " say " I " > you are only referring to a social construct > designed mainly for accountability. Existence > exist, but the " I " is just a conceptual page > in society's accounting book. > > When this is seen the loyalty, the commitment > to the social persona drops, and a sense of freedom > of non-existence is there, but that doesn't mean > the body, the brain, the very mind are not > real. It only means they are free, not owned by > an " I. " > > Pete > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > There is no self, but the social self. > The " I " is just a social instrument, your > very mind is a social tool. The human > mind and self are not cosmic, they > are not even natural. Feral children > have neither. They have only the > animal subjectivity of a dog, or a wolf. > > Even if you go live as a hermit in a cave, > you can't leave society behind. As long > as you have a mind, society will be there. > > So be clear about this, when " you " say " I " > you are only referring to a social construct > designed mainly for accountability. Existence > exist, but the " I " is just a conceptual page > in society's accounting book. > > When this is seen the loyalty, the commitment > to the social persona drops, and a sense of freedom > of non-existence is there, but that doesn't mean > the body, the brain, the very mind are not > real. It only means they are free, not owned by > an " I. " > > Pete>> Right on, right on! Gary > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " garyfalk1943 " <falkgw@h...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > There is no self, but the social self. > > The " I " is just a social instrument, your > > very mind is a social tool. The human > > mind and self are not cosmic, they > > are not even natural. Feral children > > have neither. They have only the > > animal subjectivity of a dog, or a wolf. > > > > Even if you go live as a hermit in a cave, > > you can't leave society behind. As long > > as you have a mind, society will be there. > > > > So be clear about this, when " you " say " I " > > you are only referring to a social construct > > designed mainly for accountability. Existence > > exist, but the " I " is just a conceptual page > > in society's accounting book. > > > > When this is seen the loyalty, the commitment > > to the social persona drops, and a sense of freedom > > of non-existence is there, but that doesn't mean > > the body, the brain, the very mind are not > > real. It only means they are free, not owned by > > an " I. " > > > > Pete>> A swing................................................. and............................another miss. strrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiike TWOOOOOOOooooooooo! You are speaking of an isolated entity that can somehow disappear back into its supposed origin. " It " never existed Pete. There never has been a single wave on the ocean. Batter up! Hey.........BatterBatter. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Toomb, Sometimes I really whished you would shut up. Just as now when you were watering down Pete's post to a level of dumbness even and idiot wouldn't suspect there. Werner Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " garyfalk1943 " <falkgw@h...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > > There is no self, but the social self. > > > The " I " is just a social instrument, your > > > very mind is a social tool. The human > > > mind and self are not cosmic, they > > > are not even natural. Feral children > > > have neither. They have only the > > > animal subjectivity of a dog, or a wolf. > > > > > > Even if you go live as a hermit in a cave, > > > you can't leave society behind. As long > > > as you have a mind, society will be there. > > > > > > So be clear about this, when " you " say " I " > > > you are only referring to a social construct > > > designed mainly for accountability. Existence > > > exist, but the " I " is just a conceptual page > > > in society's accounting book. > > > > > > When this is seen the loyalty, the commitment > > > to the social persona drops, and a sense of freedom > > > of non-existence is there, but that doesn't mean > > > the body, the brain, the very mind are not > > > real. It only means they are free, not owned by > > > an " I. " > > > > > > Pete>> > > > A swing................................................. > > > > and............................another miss. > > > > > > strrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiike TWOOOOOOOooooooooo! You are speaking of an isolated entity that can somehow disappear back into its supposed > origin. > > > " It " never existed Pete. > > > > > There never has been a single wave on the ocean. > > > > Batter up! > > > > > > Hey.........BatterBatter. > > > > toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Toomb, > > Sometimes I really whished you would shut up. Just as now when you > were watering down Pete's post to a level of dumbness even and idiot > wouldn't suspect there. Ahhh ....It was not I that watered down the post.....It was thin gruel from the start. Would you prefer that I say things that agree more closely with your delusional preconceptions? Do you really want to sleep away this gift of being? toombaru > > Werner > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > Nisargadatta , " garyfalk1943 " <falkgw@h...> > wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > > > There is no self, but the social self. > > > > The " I " is just a social instrument, your > > > > very mind is a social tool. The human > > > > mind and self are not cosmic, they > > > > are not even natural. Feral children > > > > have neither. They have only the > > > > animal subjectivity of a dog, or a wolf. > > > > > > > > Even if you go live as a hermit in a cave, > > > > you can't leave society behind. As long > > > > as you have a mind, society will be there. > > > > > > > > So be clear about this, when " you " say " I " > > > > you are only referring to a social construct > > > > designed mainly for accountability. Existence > > > > exist, but the " I " is just a conceptual page > > > > in society's accounting book. > > > > > > > > When this is seen the loyalty, the commitment > > > > to the social persona drops, and a sense of freedom > > > > of non-existence is there, but that doesn't mean > > > > the body, the brain, the very mind are not > > > > real. It only means they are free, not owned by > > > > an " I. " > > > > > > > > Pete>> > > > > > > A swing................................................. > > > > > > > > and............................another miss. > > > > > > > > > > > > strrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiike TWOOOOOOOooooooooo! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are speaking of an isolated entity that can somehow disappear > back into its supposed > > origin. > > > > > > " It " never existed Pete. > > > > > > > > > > There never has been a single wave on the ocean. > > > > > > > > Batter up! > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey.........BatterBatter. > > > > > > > > toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Hi Pete. Let me say that my idea is that every animal and not only those but also lice and worms which have to meet their own species with their own inherited way of sociality must have consciousness. So orangutans or pandas or lice have their way of consiouness specialized to commune with their species. Werner Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > Thanks Pete, > > And let me add (and I know you don't agree) that consciousness too is > just a social function (and nothing more) needed for communication. > > The world we share and commune as social selfs is the world of > consciousness. > > Werner > > Hi Werner, > > I'm not so sure we disagree. I would have to ask > you a few questions about consciousness as a > social function. Do you mean that orangutans, and > pandas which are solitary animals lack consciousness? > > Do you define consciousness as the capacity to act on > the basis of un-programmed information? I say un-programmed > because a thermostat can be made to react to heat, > but do not react to sound, or light, or any other non-thermal > input. So open ended reaction to input could be a proof > of consciousness, is not that so? And nonsocial animals exhibit > such reactions, so what exactly is consciousness to you? > > Pete > > > Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > There is no self, but the social self. > > The " I " is just a social instrument, your > > very mind is a social tool. The human > > mind and self are not cosmic, they > > are not even natural. Feral children > > have neither. They have only the > > animal subjectivity of a dog, or a wolf. > > > > Even if you go live as a hermit in a cave, > > you can't leave society behind. As long > > as you have a mind, society will be there. > > > > So be clear about this, when " you " say " I " > > you are only referring to a social construct > > designed mainly for accountability. Existence > > exist, but the " I " is just a conceptual page > > in society's accounting book. > > > > When this is seen the loyalty, the commitment > > to the social persona drops, and a sense of freedom > > of non-existence is there, but that doesn't mean > > the body, the brain, the very mind are not > > real. It only means they are free, not owned by > > an " I. " > > > > Pete > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Toomb, Better not to be immunized against delusional preconceptions than to suffer from megalomaniac exaggerated opinion of oneself in respect to owning perfect insights into all imaginable situations. Werner Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > > Toomb, > > > > Sometimes I really whished you would shut up. Just as now when you > > were watering down Pete's post to a level of dumbness even and idiot > > wouldn't suspect there. > > > Ahhh ....It was not I that watered down the post.....It was thin gruel from the start. > > > Would you prefer that I say things that agree more closely with your delusional > preconceptions? > > > Do you really want to sleep away this gift of being? > > > toombaru > > > > > > Werner > > > > Nisargadatta , " toombaru2004 " <cptc@w...> wrote: > > > Nisargadatta , " garyfalk1943 " <falkgw@h...> > > wrote: > > > > Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > > > > > There is no self, but the social self. > > > > > The " I " is just a social instrument, your > > > > > very mind is a social tool. The human > > > > > mind and self are not cosmic, they > > > > > are not even natural. Feral children > > > > > have neither. They have only the > > > > > animal subjectivity of a dog, or a wolf. > > > > > > > > > > Even if you go live as a hermit in a cave, > > > > > you can't leave society behind. As long > > > > > as you have a mind, society will be there. > > > > > > > > > > So be clear about this, when " you " say " I " > > > > > you are only referring to a social construct > > > > > designed mainly for accountability. Existence > > > > > exist, but the " I " is just a conceptual page > > > > > in society's accounting book. > > > > > > > > > > When this is seen the loyalty, the commitment > > > > > to the social persona drops, and a sense of freedom > > > > > of non-existence is there, but that doesn't mean > > > > > the body, the brain, the very mind are not > > > > > real. It only means they are free, not owned by > > > > > an " I. " > > > > > > > > > > Pete>> > > > > > > > > > A swing................................................. > > > > > > > > > > > > and............................another miss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > strrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiike TWOOOOOOOooooooooo! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are speaking of an isolated entity that can somehow disappear > > back into its supposed > > > origin. > > > > > > > > > " It " never existed Pete. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There never has been a single wave on the ocean. > > > > > > > > > > > > Batter up! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey.........BatterBatter. > > > > > > > > > > > > toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2005 Report Share Posted April 28, 2005 Nisargadatta , " Werner Woehr " <wwoehr@p...> wrote: > Toomb, > > Better not to be immunized against delusional preconceptions than to > suffer from megalomaniac exaggerated opinion of oneself in respect to > owning perfect insights into all imaginable situations. > > Werner No....If you have a choice (which you don't)....It's far better to be the... megalo.......thingy. toombaru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 Nisargadatta , Pedsie2@a... wrote: > There is no self, but the social self. > The " I " is just a social instrument, your > very mind is a social tool. The human > mind and self are not cosmic, they > are not even natural. Feral children > have neither. They have only the > animal subjectivity of a dog, or a wolf. > > Even if you go live as a hermit in a cave, > you can't leave society behind. As long > as you have a mind, society will be there. > > So be clear about this, when " you " say " I " > you are only referring to a social construct > designed mainly for accountability. Existence > exist, but the " I " is just a conceptual page > in society's accounting book. > > When this is seen the loyalty, the commitment > to the social persona drops, and a sense of freedom > of non-existence is there, but that doesn't mean > the body, the brain, the very mind are not > real. It only means they are free, not owned by > an " I. " > > Pete Yes, 'i' and society are interdependent concepts. Society cultivates, sustains, maintains and strengthens 'i'. But, it is 'i' (or i's )that create and sustain the society in the first place ! > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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